EBS building soc workers want annual Xmas bonus

Sir Oxman

Well, still no clearer.
If it's money they earned over the year (as in put aside each month) they are entitled to it.
Anything else, nope.
Very bad management in leaving it so late if it's the latter.

CricketDude

Fbjm wrote: »

Heh, my dad is the one who stopped them getting their bonuses. Cutbacks had to be made etc. Trust the union to get all pissy about it :rolleyes:

Funny actually, they were on the news yesterday and wanted to make a fuss, but dad got the place to shut and disable the blinds, thus a reporter standing outside a seemingly calm building. Union epic-fails :cool:

Fbjm wrote: »

Because he made necessary cuts? I get where you're coming from and actually pulled him up on it last night when he was telling myself and mom. Not like I could do anything about it though, and besides the cuts were necessary.

Fbjm wrote: »

Oh there's a whole backstory to that. The union wanted to use the library so they were allowed, then like 5 minutes before they went live or something they went down to the café bit downstairs in front of the cameras. That's obviously trying to get one up on the company, over something that's necessary.

I have a feeling your dad may not have a job at the end of next week.
Wait til someone here sends your posts to his bosses.
In any company I know its a sackable offence to disclose confidential information to anyone, never mind with your son at dinner who then blurts it out on the internet.
So well done for getting your dad the sack.
And when you are sacked - no dole, no redundancy, no anything.

noodler

MagicSean wrote: »

The guys at the counter didn't lend any money

gigino wrote: »

tough, they were part of the machine which did.

Completely missing the point, try telling the workers at TalkTalk that they did not wrong but it doesn't bring their jobs back.

TheRealPONeil

ejmaztec wrote: »

There are an awful lot of people who have been made redundant from other financial institutions, who probably wouldn't mind getting back into the industry, and aren't too fussed about bonuses these days.

Read post #17

gigino

Nobody is going to get sacked, when you see the EBS workers still in their well paid jobs , after all the mistakes they made, like inflating the property bubble by lending people 10 or 15 times their salary to buy property. They have got the taxpayer to pump billions in to themselves and Anglo, and they are sticking out their tongues at the rest of us by looking for their months extra pay at Christmas. At least Seanie Fitzpatrick or David Drumm are not looking for their months bonus from Anglo.

gigino

noodler wrote: »

, try telling the workers at TalkTalk that they did not wrong .

As a group, the workers at talktalk did not f*** up the economy by lending people 10 or 15 times their income, thereby inflating the property bubble etc.
The workers at talktalk had not a manager on a salary of € 500,000.00 a year like EBS had, or someone who retired with a pension pot of 20 million, like another building society exectutive did. The people of talktalk operated in the real world and never got a months bonus at xmas like EBS always did. The people of talktalk did not get the taxpayer to pump over 2 billion in to their company to stop it going bust. The workers at talktalk behaved properly and I have every sympathy for them. If the people at EBS had to work in the real world like at talktalk they would discover the realities of the real world.
Its tough that companies fail because of bad management and bad management practices. I have every sympathy for those at the bottom level of EBS , who did not make the decisions there, but at the end of the day their company , along with Anglo and Nationwide building society etc, played a central role in causing the problems facing the country now. They do not lend people 10 or 15 times their income now ; why did they do it then ?

starbelgrade

gigino wrote: »

If the people at EBS had to work in the real world like at talktalk they would discover the realities of the real world.

You'd swear EBS was a bank on a Monopoly board the way you're going on.

noodler

TheRealPONeil wrote: »

Read post #17

But theres no proof yet for post 17?

starbelgrade

noodler wrote: »

But theres no proof yet for post 17?

There is - I've seen it with my own eyes - it's on page 2 of this thread.

gigino

The company admits ( from the RTE website link I gave earlier ) the months xmas payment was " not pensionable and staff leaving before the Christmas payroll run in any given year would not receive the payment."
So in other words its given at xmas after 12 months work, but if you leave in Oct or Nov you do not even get a percentage of it.
So if it looks like a bonus, walks like a bonus, talks like a bonus...then it is a bonus.

ejmaztec wrote: »

There are an awful lot of people who have been made redundant from other financial institutions, who probably wouldn't mind getting back into the industry, and aren't too fussed about bonuses these days.

+1. And most of these people never lent someone 10 or 15 times ( or more ) their salary either, which I believe was not unknown to happen at the likes of EBS and Anglo Irish bank, two lending institutions which were main inflators of the property bubble. They did not lend like that 20 years ago, they do not lend like that now, so why did they lend like that during the bubble ? If they did not, the country would not be in the mess we are in. Think of all the misery they caused. And people who cause a countries mess should not be rewarded with bonuses, especially those in companies with salaries up to 380,000.

nlgbbbblth

stovelid wrote: »

Not at all. It's his job.

I meant the other stunt I quoted and the seemingly gleeful way in which it was related.

not to mention his spiteful anti-union attitude.

gigino

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

not to mention his spiteful anti-union attitude.

His attitude to the union is not really relevant. What the thread is about is the EBS and if the people who work there deserve their xmas bonus of one months salary. (lol). If they were all sacked last month they would not get a cent of it.

Freddie59

Snakeblood wrote: »

Their interests are retaining everything they had before. If they don't stand up for their interests, no one else will. These are people on the lower end of the spectrum, who weren't involved in the big risk taking decisions. Dunno why you are so angry at them really.

It's quite simple really. In the REAL economic world a business, if not viable, is wound down, it's workers (sadly) made redundant, and life moves on. Let's say, take Eircom as an example. Would it be right if Eircom had no customers tomorrow for the Government to continue to pay the wages at that firm, even if it were insolvent?

NO.

Are these fcuking banks any different?

NO.

But are treated differently.

With their staff remaining completely detached from reality. Just like the Civil Service, with their pay increments still being paid.

FFS you couldn't make this stuff up.:mad:

Freddie59

hidinginthebush wrote: »

What about Anglo, AIB, Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac (see it's not just Ireland). The problem with letting building societies and banks go bust, as I see it*, is that these places have given out mortgages, so people have taken loans to pay for their homes. Now, if all these places went bust, as part of the bankrupcy hearings, their debtors would be able to demand the amount owed by everyone who has a house with them, which as we are all aware now, could be hundreds of thousands more than the house is even worth. So the debtors could demand that the house is given over. So you have thousands of families (maybe even some of your noble private sector workes) made homeless. That's why the government bail these people out.

[*disclaimer - I may have just highlighted my complete lack of understanding of how the financial world works, ninja edits to follow...]

But then creditors usually get 10c in the Euro.;) And the Government bailed these cnuts out because they were told to do so, rolling out the "there would be no money in the ATMs" BS to justify it.

andyyupyup

I have to say I do empathise with EBS workers affected by this. If the average paid worker earns 30k a 1/13 cut with only 3 days notice will have a major impact so close to Xmas.

Regarding contractual arrangements I wouldnt say this decision would have been taken if it was anyway illegal. Workers should have strengthened their entitlement similar to what senior staff there seemed to have done - but the boat has sailed unfortunately.

Regarding some of the negative comments on here - I would say to any EBS worker not to pay too much attention. People will react in such a way whenever they hear about banks and bonuses. People are naturally greedy and don't care much unless the effect has any bearing on them.

The cheek of EBS to offer an interest free loan to ease the burden! If I was an employee I would take the loan to the value of this bonus and wouldn't repay it - collectively of course.. Or collectively miss a payment on your mortgage - I presume your lender being EBS.

You have my support - this is just another examPle of low paid workers bearing the brunt while management and decision makers get off scot free.

Ray Palmer

O)bviously some people don't get what the real world is actually like. If the EBS was aloud fall there would have actually been a huge cost. The money spent on redundancy alone would have been huge.

The act of seeling the loan book would have had cost. The unemployment paid by the state would have been huge.

I still can't figure out is this a bonus or a witheld portion of their wages, massive diffrence in the same way civil service salary increments aren't pay rises.

obiegold

Its not a fkn bonus!!!!!!!!
U may find it amazing that we pay taxes also!

uote=fishy fishy;75892527]myself and my colleagues haven't even gotten a RAISE for the last three years, never mind any bonuses.

why should people be getting bonuses when we all had to take pay cuts. That doesn't make sense.

what's the point - this country is a laughing stock.[/Quote]

monkeypants

Do we have a concensus yet on whether it's a bonus or a savings scheme? If it's a savings scheme, then it's bad form, probably illegal and I wouldn't keep my money in an institution that treats employee savings like that. If it's a performance bonus, then it shouldn't be paid as the performance of the institution doesn't merit it. However, then no member of staff should receive the bonus.

TheZohanS

monkeypants wrote: »

Do we have a concensus yet on whether it's a bonus or a savings scheme? If it's a savings scheme, then it's bad form, probably illegal and I wouldn't keep my money in an institution that treats employee savings like that. If it's a performance bonus, then it shouldn't be paid as the performance of the institution doesn't merit it. However, then no member of staff should receive the bonus.

It's a bonus, but the staff and unions are trying to tart it up as a savings scheme, it's not.

NonFatCat

gigino wrote: »

What the thread is about is the EBS and if the people who work there deserve their xmas bonus of one months salary. (lol). If they were all sacked last month they would not get a cent of it.

TheZohan wrote: »

It's a bonus, but the staff and unions are trying to tart it up as a savings scheme, it's not.

It is NOT a BONUS! It is NOT an EXTRA months pay!

EBS contract states: "Your salary will be £12,000 per annum"

There is no mention of Christmas Bonus or Christmas Payment. But how it gets payed is where the EBS workers are getting shafted.

So you would expect that the 12k gets payed-out 1000 p/m. Nope! Bear with me here ...

In EBS the annual salary gets divided by 13, so it's 923 p/m (Jan - Nov). In Dec the final 923 is payed, with the remainder owed (i.e., 924) ... this is known as the "13th month". The "month" wording causes confusion, as it is just the 13th installment.

This 13th installment of the annual salary, is what EBS have stopped paying to non-managerial workers. Except for Senior Managers and Directors, of course; they will be getting their annual salary in full.

sbsquarepants

jester77 wrote: »

This is not a bonus payment.

Your total salary is divided by 13 instead of 12. So every month you get a little less and then at the end of the year you get salary 12 + 13 in one payslip. Num 13 is not guaranteed and may not be paid out if the company had a bad year and is struggling.

A job may decide not to pay you for a months work if they don't feel like it? Eh, no. The can only do that with a bonus, not wages.

Deank wrote: »

Just to set the record straight on this one, the press and Senior Management of EBS have totally misquoted the terms of the EBS employees contracts, it is not a bonus that they were entitled too it was savings.
Each month they had a percentage of their salary deducted by payroll and put aside as savings, they were entitled to get this lump sum back in December, it was up to each individual whether they signed up to the savings scheme and the amount which they contributed.

If there was a shred of truth in this, it would be a a glaring breach of employment law and struck down by the courts at the very first opportunity. No "reputable" company would be so stupid as to try pull a stunt like that.

andyyupyup wrote: »

I have to say I do empathise with EBS workers affected by this. If the average paid worker earns 30k a 1/13 cut with only 3 days notice will have a major impact so close to Xmas.

Regarding contractual arrangements I wouldnt say this decision would have been taken if it was anyway illegal. Workers should have strengthened their entitlement similar to what senior staff there seemed to have done - but the boat has sailed unfortunately.
.

Anyone who works for a bankrupt company and still somehow expects a months wages as a discretionary christmas bonus, is a fúcking idiot.

TheZohan wrote: »

It's a bonus, but the staff and unions are trying to tart it up as a savings scheme, it's not.

Exactly. Savings scheme my arse. That's laughable!
They aren't getting a bonus cos they don't deserve one, plain and simple, it's that sense of entitlement that has this country fúcked. If you weren't being kept alive artificially with tax payers money, you'd all be on the fúcking dole. Is that not bonus enough for you, you've all gotten a 12 month bonus this year, does it not smack of greed to expect a 13th?:mad:

TheZohanS

NonFatCat wrote: »

It is NOT a BONUS! It is NOT an EXTRA months pay!

EBS contract states: "Your salary will be £12,000 per annum"

There is no mention of Christmas Bonus or Christmas Payment. But how it gets payed is where the EBS workers are getting shafted.

So you would expect that the 12k gets payed-out 1000 p/m. Nope! Bear with me here ...

In EBS the annual salary gets divided by 13, so it's 923 p/m (Jan - Nov). In Dec the final 923 is payed, with the remainder owed (i.e., 924) ... this is known as the "13th month". The "month" wording causes confusion, as it is just the 13th installment.

This 13th installment of the annual salary, is what EBS have stopped paying to non-managerial workers. Except for Senior Managers and Directors, of course; they will be getting their annual salary in full.

Our team used to get decent bonuses in my last job, it was dependent on hitting targets. Used to always hit targets and we had a choice of claiming it each month or at the end of the year, it worked out the equivalent of a months pay for that particular incentive.

Guess what? When the team failed to hit targets it was reduced accordingly. Now during the boom hitting targets was easy peasy, and everybody expected this bonus during the boom and classed it as our salary because we had received it for so long, it wasn't. It was still a bonus.

That's just the way life goes sometimes.

NonFatCat

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A job may decide not to pay you for a months work if they don't feel like it? Eh, no. The can only do that with a bonus, not wages.
...
Anyone who works for a bankrupt company and still somehow expects a months wages as a discretionary christmas bonus, is a fúcking idiot.

You are contradicting yourself here!?!

It is NOT a BONUS ... or an EXTRA months pay being cut, that the workers are furious about! It's their annual salary that's being cut! Not. A. Bonus.
Or to use your words: It is "wages", not a "discretionary christmas bonus".

I'll explain this again ...
The contract states: "Your salary will be £12,000 per annum"
(There is no mention of Christmas Bonus or Christmas Payment or Extra Month or Any-other-type-of-Bonus.)
So you would expect that the 12k gets payed-out 1000 p/m. Right? No!

In EBS the annual salary gets divided by 13, so it's 923 p/m (Jan - Nov). In Dec the final 923 is payed, with the remainder owed (i.e., 924) ... this is known as the "13th month". The "month" wording causes confusion, as it is just the 13th installment.

This 13th installment of the annual salary, is what EBS have stopped paying to non-managerial workers. Except for Senior Managers and Directors, of course; they will be getting their annual salary in full. How do you think this is fair?

NonFatCat

TheZohan wrote: »

Our team used to get decent bonuses in my last job, it was dependent on hitting targets. Used to always hit targets and we had a choice of claiming it each month or at the end of the year, it worked out the equivalent of a months pay for that particular incentive.

Guess what? When the team failed to hit targets it was reduced accordingly. Now during the boom hitting targets was easy peasy, and everybody expected this bonus during the boom and classed it as our salary because we had received it for so long, it wasn't. It was still a bonus.

That's just the way life goes sometimes.

We used to get performance-related bonuses too. But it was never classed as our salary. It was a bonus. And they have all been canceled since 2008. This is not a bonus ... it is our salary!

gerryo777

Sharrow wrote: »

EBs the building soc not the ESB.


The bottom tier of staff 1 week before payday and 2 weeks before christmas got told they were not getting the bonus but all the managers are. They have gotten it every past year going back 11 years and to have it landed on them at such short notice when most of them were going to pay for christmas out of it is sniveling, mean and underhanded.

Sniveling,mean & underhanded? Sounds like bankers ok!

gerryo777

mackdee wrote: »

ARE YOU FOR FKNG REAL...DO YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY, God forbid you might ever have to work for a living or pay your way in society..a**hole

He's trolling, mackdee, relax!

TheZohanS

NonFatCat wrote: »

We used to get performance-related bonuses too. But it was never classed as our salary. It was a bonus. And they have all been canceled since 2008. This is not a bonus ... it is our salary!

Do you know what happened to the company I used to work for when it stopped making money?

It closed down and we all lost our jobs.

seamus

Yeah, I'm skeptical about this "13th month" claim. If it was a case where the company were refusing to pay workers salaries, then it would be cut-and-dried and the dispute would be over already.

From what I understand, management have the option of this 13th month payment (i.e. they can choose to have their salaries paid out over 12 or 13 months), and this is why management are still receiving this additional payment.

But according to the reports, normal staff get paid their standard salary over 12 months and this 13th payment is an additional payment. However, the reports do also state that this is contained in their contract. But that depends on how it's worded in the contracts - it's not pensionable and is not part of the normal renumeration according to reports, therefore I suspect that it is something which can be removed by the company at their discretion. However, stopping it less than a month before it's due to be paid might be legally iffy.

TL;DR: According to reports, employee contracts don't say "Your wages are €12,000 over 13 months", instead they say, "Your wages are €11,076 over 12 months. An additional payment outside of your normal wages equivalent to one month's salary is made at Xmas".

MagicSean

I fail to see how it can be considered a bonus for the low level workers but a salary for the managers.

NonFatCat

TheZohan wrote: »

Do you know what happened to the company I used to work for when it stopped making money?

It closed down and we all lost our jobs.

Oh. Sorry about that. Are you saying that the EBS workers should feel guilty about have jobs?

NonFatCat

seamus wrote: »

According to reports, employee contracts don't say "Your wages are €12,000 over 13 months", instead they say, "Your wages are €11,076 over 12 months. An additional payment outside of your normal wages equivalent to one month's salary is made at Xmas".

Direct quote from my contract:
"Your salary will be £12,000 per annum"

There is no mention of Christmas Bonus or Christmas Payment or Extra Month or Any-other-type-of-Bonus or Additional Payment.

It's a simple calculation. Take your salary and divide it by 13. Every month you get 1/13th (Jan - Nov). In December you get the final two 13th's.

No additional payments at all, it's just your salary divided by 13 rather than 12.

TheZohanS

NonFatCat wrote: »

Oh. Sorry about that. Are you saying that the EBS workers should feel guilty about have jobs?

Not at all. But you guys need to look at the bigger picture here. If we had the choice between a loss of bonus/wage cut (whatever you want to call it)at the time or to lose our job we certainly would have taken the cut. Your owned by AIB now and when it comes to re-branding/merging/restructuring and inevitably job losses who do you think will go first? An AIB worker on €30k or an EBS worker on €25?

gigino

NonFatCat wrote: »

Are you saying that the EBS workers should feel guilty about have jobs?

They should count themselves lucky that - after the damage themselves and the likes of Anglo did to the economy - the government made that infamous 2 a.m. decision one September a few years ago to guarantee the Irish financial institutions, which include EBS. The government pumping a few billion in to EBS has kept them in a job. Most people in the world who find themselves in bankrupt companies are not so lucky. And now they want their Xmas bonus, which none of them would have got if they left a month or 2 ago. The EBS is not lending new money now anyway, so they can be closed just like Anglo was. Tough, but it was tough on the lower level staff in Anglo too, who just followed orders.

Its not enough that they bankrupt the country as well as themselves by unsustainable / unethical lending ( e.g. lending people money equivalent to 10 or 15 times their annual salary, so they have no hope of ever paying it back ) ....they now want xmas bonuses for doing so ! Even Seanie Fitzpatrick was not as brazen.
You have'nt heard the last of this one yet.;)

starbelgrade

Amazing to see EBS workers coming out of the woodwork & starting new Boards accounts just to post on this thread.

I'd be very, very surprised to learn that none of these are re-registered posters who are unwilling to post under their normal user names.

NonFatCat

gigino wrote: »

They should count themselves lucky that - after the damage themselves and the likes of Anglo did to the economy

What damage did the lowly EBS workers do? I think your anger is misplaced. For example, when at some point you went into EBS and withdrew some cash from your account and the cashiers gave it to you ... this somehow caused the economy to crash. Those dastardly cashiers.

gigino wrote: »

And now they want their Xmas bonus

It is NOT a BONUS. It is part of our taxable annual salary. Let me explain it again ...
Take your salary and divide it by 13. Every month you get 1/13th (Jan - Nov). In December you get the final two 13th's ...
Now do you feel you are entitled to those last two 13th's? Would you be happy for me to take one of them from you, even though you worked those weeks?

monkeypants

If it's a way of receiving salary payments, all an EBS employee has to do is grab a copy of their contract and a years worth of payslips and go see a solicitor. Or the union can do that for them. Should be resolved quickly enough.

tigger123

gigino wrote: »

They should count themselves lucky that - after the damage themselves and the likes of Anglo did to the economy - the government made that infamous 2 a.m. decision one September a few years ago to guarantee the Irish financial institutions, which include EBS. The government pumping a few billion in to EBS has kept them in a job. Most people in the world who find themselves in bankrupt companies are not so lucky. And now they want their Xmas bonus, which none of them would have got if they left a month or 2 ago. The EBS is not lending new money now anyway, so they can be closed just like Anglo was. Tough, but it was tough on the lower level staff in Anglo too, who just followed orders.

Its not enough that they bankrupt the country as well as themselves by unsustainable / unethical lending ( e.g. lending people money equivalent to 10 or 15 times their annual salary, so they have no hope of ever paying it back ) ....they now want xmas bonuses for doing so ! Even Seanie Fitzpatrick was not as brazen.
You have'nt heard the last of this one yet.;)

The people receiving this pay cut / non payment of a bonus are NOT the people who made the decisions to pursue reckless lending policies, and you know that. "They" did not bankrupt the country. It was those at the top that made these decisions... (and who are actually receiving the payment this Christmas).

NonFatCat

monkeypants wrote: »

If it's a way of receiving salary payments, all an EBS employee has to do is grab a copy of their contract and a years worth of payslips and go see a solicitor. Or the union can do that for them. Should be resolved quickly enough.

Fingers crossed.

One can only hope that this is what happens, not only for the EBS workers, but for the sake of all lower paid workers (as opposed to Directors, etc.)

If this decision isn't reversed by the Minister, it is a clear signal to all employers that they can walk all over employee contracts. It's a sad state of affairs.

Ray Palmer

NonFatCat wrote: »

Direct quote from my contract:
"Your salary will be £12,000 per annum"

There is no mention of Christmas Bonus or Christmas Payment or Extra Month or Any-other-type-of-Bonus or Additional Payment.

It's a simple calculation. Take your salary and divide it by 13. Every month you get 1/13th (Jan - Nov). In December you get the final two 13th's.

No additional payments at all, it's just your salary divided by 13 rather than 12.

Terrible pay hope it a part time job.

sbsquarepants

NonFatCat wrote: »

You are contradicting yourself here!?!

It is NOT a BONUS ... or an EXTRA months pay being cut, that the workers are furious about! It's their annual salary that's being cut! Not. A. Bonus.
Or to use your words: It is "wages", not a "discretionary christmas bonus".

I'll explain this again ...
The contract states: "Your salary will be £12,000 per annum"
(There is no mention of Christmas Bonus or Christmas Payment or Extra Month or Any-other-type-of-Bonus.)
So you would expect that the 12k gets payed-out 1000 p/m. Right? No!

In EBS the annual salary gets divided by 13, so it's 923 p/m (Jan - Nov). In Dec the final 923 is payed, with the remainder owed (i.e., 924) ... this is known as the "13th month". The "month" wording causes confusion, as it is just the 13th installment.

This 13th installment of the annual salary, is what EBS have stopped paying to non-managerial workers. Except for Senior Managers and Directors, of course; they will be getting their annual salary in full. How do you think this is fair?

NonFatCat wrote: »

It is NOT a BONUS. It is part of our taxable annual salary. Let me explain it again ...
Take your salary and divide it by 13. Every month you get 1/13th (Jan - Nov). In December you get the final two 13th's ...
Now do you feel you are entitled to those last two 13th's? Would you be happy for me to take one of them from you, even though you worked those weeks?

Welcome to (almost) reality!
I have a contract that says i get paid 19% more than i do, due to 2 seperate 10% paycuts.
I'm also down a summer and christmas bonus, which equated to roughly a months wages, tax free. So basically i'm down 30% on 4 or 5 years ago, that's before we even consider new taxes and so on. If my job goes under the government won't buy it and run it as a zombie company thus allowing me to pay my mortgage despite my job being bankrupt.

And i still don't buy the whole 13th month isn't a bonus yarn you're spinning. In short, i don't have any sympathy for you whatsoever, if you were treated like everybody else you'd be on the dole now.
So quit whinging!

seamus

NonFatCat wrote: »

Direct quote from my contract:
"Your salary will be £12,000 per annum"

Given the amount is so small and the fact that you're using a punt sign instead of a euro sign, am I to assume that you managed to find an old contract from 1996 and dusted it off?

Or are you just paid a very small wage and too lazy to use the € symbol?

Or maybe 12 is just a figurative amount and not the actual one?

Freddie59

NonFatCat wrote: »

Oh. Sorry about that. Are you saying that the EBS workers should feel guilty about have jobs?

No. What he is saying is they should be THANKFUL they have jobs which should have disappeared three years ago.:rolleyes:

Freddie59

Ray Palmer wrote: »

O)bviously some people don't get what the real world is actually like. If the EBS was aloud fall there would have actually been a huge cost. The money spent on redundancy alone would have been huge.

The act of seeling the loan book would have had cost. The unemployment paid by the state would have been huge.

I still can't figure out is this a bonus or a witheld portion of their wages, massive diffrence in the same way civil service salary increments aren't pay rises.

Look, who gives a fcuk what it would have cost?:mad: It would have been far cheaper than perpetuating this fcuking farce that is the Irish "banking system" with its mollycoddled management and staff. Fcuk the lot of them.

The "real world" would dictate that any insolvent, failed business ceases to exist and is wound down. Essentially what you are arguing is that ANY failed business be bailed out by the State. And really, if you do it for one should you not do it for all?

NonFatCat

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Welcome to (almost) reality!
I have a contract that says i get paid 19% more than i do, due to 2 seperate 10% paycuts.
I'm also down a summer and christmas bonus, which equated to roughly a months wages, tax free. So basically i'm down 30% on 4 or 5 years ago, that's before we even consider new taxes and so on. If my job goes under the government won't buy it and run it as a zombie company thus allowing me to pay my mortgage despite my job being bankrupt.

And i still don't buy the whole 13th month isn't a bonus yarn you're spinning. In short, i don't have any sympathy for you whatsoever, if you were treated like everybody else you'd be on the dole now.
So quit whinging!

Snap. We're also down about the 30%, excluding new taxes and so on. However, you are missing my point. I am not looking for any sympathy. I'm looking for fairness. Top-level EBS management will be getting their full annual salary this year, but the lower paid workers will not be. One rule for the rich...

TheZohanS

NonFatCat wrote: »

Snap. We're also down about the 30%, excluding new taxes and so on. However, you are missing my point. I am not looking for any sympathy. I'm looking for fairness. Top-level EBS management will be getting their full annual salary this year, but the lower paid workers will not be. One rule for the rich...

Yeah but you're looking for your bonus, which aint going to happen in this current economic climate going forward.

NonFatCat

seamus wrote: »

Given the amount is so small and the fact that you're using a punt sign instead of a euro sign, am I to assume that you managed to find an old contract from 1996 and dusted it off?

Or are you just paid a very small wage and too lazy to use the € symbol?

Or maybe 12 is just a figurative amount and not the actual one?

Only contract I have is my old one, hence it's in punts.

However, I think the 12k illustrates the salary payment structure nicely. That is, in EBS non-managerial staff would not get 1k p/m, they would instead get 923 p/m. Where's the remaining 77 gone, I heard you ask? Well EBS keep it and give it to us in our December pay. Or at least they used to ... now they just keep it.

NonFatCat

TheZohan wrote: »

Yeah but you're looking for your bonus, which aint going to happen in this current economic climate going forward.

You must have me mixed-up with someone else ... I'm not looking for a bonus, only my wages.

TheZohanS

NonFatCat wrote: »

You must have me mixed-up with someone else ... I'm not looking for a bonus, only my wages.

Irish Times:

EBS has paid a bonus amounting to a month’s pay to 370 staff below management level at Christmas every year for more than 30 years, said a spokesman for the nationalised institution.

The State is injecting €2.4 billion into EBS and a further €18.4 billion into AIB, which acquired the former building society in July. The Government insisted in its agreement with AIB that no bonuses be paid.

The bonuses had to be paid under the employees’ contractual arrangements with EBS, said its spokesman. He confirmed that the payments had been made over the three years since the introduction of the bank guarantee.

The spokesman said that the Christmas bonus – known within EBS as the “13th month” payment – was fully disclosed to the Department of Finance and the Central Bank over the past three years.

This year’s bonuses would have cost EBS €1.3million and were due to be paid into staff bank accounts tomorrow but employees were told earlier this week that payments were not being made.

The EBS spokesman said that, on the basis that staff may have been expecting this year’s bonus and spent the money in advance, two or three-year interest-free loans were being offered to staff. The loans would be repaid directly from their pay packets, he said.

Then you should check your payslip, 'cos it's looking as if your Xmas bonus will not be happening this year.

Freddie59

NonFatCat wrote: »

Fingers crossed.

One can only hope that this is what happens, not only for the EBS workers, but for the sake of all lower paid workers (as opposed to Directors, etc.)

If this decision isn't reversed by the Minister, it is a clear signal to all employers that they can walk all over employee contracts. It's a sad state of affairs.

Unfortunately this is what needs to happen. To the banks (employees of ALL grades); the Civil Service; and PS workers.

The €18bn deficit will remain otherwise. Ireland, Inc is insolvent. And the sooner people realise this the better - starting with the Government.

NonFatCat

TheZohan wrote: »

Irish Times:



Then you should check your payslip, 'cos it's looking as if your Xmas bonus will not be happening this year.

What do you mean this year? Found-out on Wednesday, gone Today!

(I see that you highlighted the mentioning of "bonus" everywhere in the Irish Times article. I presume you mean that because it's in the papers it must be true. Oh, how silly of me, everything in print is true. Just like my contract ... not!)