Please Help or Child going on ebay :)

Yve

Hi All

PLease can you give advice on the following.

Our little Man is 9 months old and for then past two weeks EVERY night he is waking screaming crying and very unsettled during the night. he can be awake for 3-4 hours at a time.

He has bumps along gum line for long time now and no sign of tooth but he is so distressed at night he is crying and screaming to the point of making himself sick.

I am six months pregnant and we are sooo tired and I sat crying this morn at 05.30. It's just desperate at this stage.

He is rubbing his ears , usual teething signs.. we pump him with nurofen, bonjela etc etc

is this habit?? do we leave him screaming and crying till he falls back asleep. ?? we have left him 30 mins and he got sick from crying

At wits end here ....

Lola92

At this stage you should be taking him to the GP to rule out that there is not something more serious going on.

Also if you are seeing no effect medicating him with nurofen etc. I really wouldn't continue to do it. It is not healthy to be constantly 'pumping him' with drugs!

Yve

Lola92 wrote: »

At this stage you should be taking him to the GP to rule out that there is not something more serious going on.

Also if you are seeing no effect medicating him with nurofen etc. I really wouldn't continue to do it. It is not healthy to be constantly 'pumping him' with drugs!

spoke with health nurse - told us we have him in bad habit lifting him.... its easy to say ok dont lift when you aint the one listening to the screaming

I may go Doc you're right - but will just be told to leave him crying i bet... he has no high temp or anything

Chicke

Why on earth would you leave a baby crying for thirty minutes until he gets sick
I'm sure he isn't doing it to inconvenience you!

Lola92

If he is screaming during the night and on a continuous basis then I would definitely bring him to GP, no questions.

The sleep deprivation is tough, especially as you are pregnant but it really is not worth taking the risk of him making himself ill to get a few extra hours sleep. Maybe you could take it in turns getting up with him every second night for a bit of a rest?

Yve

Chicke wrote: »

Why on earth would you leave a baby crying for thirty minutes until he gets sick
I'm sure he isn't doing it to inconvenience you!

No need for the tone - obviously distressed here....

as many people have told us including health nurse, he is in bad habits ??? and should be left to cry himself to sleep as he is in the habit of getting lifted and given milk etc etc ... just like people do when child is overtired and crying or being weened off a soother or what not....

January

Wouldn't be listening to the health nurse either... you're supposed to pick a crying baby up... and comfort them... that crying it out stuff is not good for them.

Yve

Chicke wrote: »

Why on earth would you leave a baby crying for thirty minutes until he gets sick
I'm sure he isn't doing it to inconvenience you!

we are first time parents and EVERYONE we speak to has different opinions including doctor and health nurses

lift him, dont lift him

give him milk, dont

dont get him into bad habits

i am wondering if anyone else has had same experience and if they solved it by not lifting or what??

Chicke

Report that health nurse.Seriously,letting a distressed baby cry unattended is horrible

Yve

Lola92 wrote: »

If he is screaming during the night and on a continuous basis then I would definitely bring him to GP, no questions.

The sleep deprivation is tough, especially as you are pregnant but it really is not worth taking the risk of him making himself ill to get a few extra hours sleep. Maybe you could take it in turns getting up with him every second night for a bit of a rest?

we do that

night on night off but sure he screams so bad that we are both awake...

I will as I said bring him doc, but docs tend to advise to speak to health nurse with these issues...

I am gettting so upset about this now.

sooo many people advise the crying it out thing but I just cant do it....

minotour

It just sounds like he's cutting his first tooth or maybe a bunch at the same time. Have you tried giving him "Teetha"

this stuff
http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=946

Give him a sachet of that before bed and see how he gets on. You werent wrong to try controlled crying despite some of the replies here but it does sound like a genuine distress i.e. Pain, most likely caused by the bumps on his gums. You could also try a dash of calpol or perhaps neurofen if he gets really bad.

I know its hard, Ive twins who did the same and ebay wasnt my first choice, a much quicker solution was the balcony, however we resisted.

Oh and on the picking up/not picking up issue, i would pick him up and try soothing, you cold also bring him to your bed but thats a slippery slope.

How Strange

Groan...op please ignore that health nurse and anyone else who mentions bad habits or spoiling in the same sentence as your little son. Hes a wee baby not some master manipulator.

My son was driven absolutely crazy with teething pains from 3 months and like you we used far too much calpol and nurofen. I got him an amber teething necklace from teethingsos.com when he was 7 months and there was an almost immediate change in his temperment and most importantly in his sleeping. I've seen it mentioned that strong chamomile tea in a bath helps as does chamomila 30c which you can get from a homeopath or health store.

I think a trip to the gp is a good idea too just to rule out an ear infection or something else.

January

Your doctor should not be referring you back to the health nurse and if he is then please see another doctor.

It's a long road... my three year old still does not sleep through, she doesn't scream going to bed anymore though... I have a two year old and a 9 week old also, so it's not easy going. I just ended up taking her into the bed with me for a few months to get some sleep it was that bad... but it's different for everyone, my other two children are great sleepers, even the nine week old!

If it's teething, it can go on for a good while yet, my two year old is still teething and has sleepless nights sometimes... is it possible he's cold/hungry? What does he eat before he goes to bed? If he's drinking bottles at night time he's obviously still hungry because he wouldn't take it if he was full.

January

minotour wrote: »

It just sounds like he's cutting his first tooth or maybe a bunch at the same time. Have you tried giving him "Teetha"

this stuff
http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=946

Give him a sachet of that before bed and see how he gets on. You werent wrong to try controlled crying despite some of the replies here but it does sound like a genuine distress i.e. Pain, most likely caused by the bumps on his gums. You could also try a dash of calpol or perhaps neurofen if he gets really bad.

I know its hard, Ive twins who did the same and ebay wasnt my first choice, a much quicker solution was the balcony, however we resisted.

Oh and on the picking up/not picking up issue, i would pick him up and try soothing, you cold also bring him to your bed but thats a slippery slope.

Controlled crying and letting the baby cry for up to 30 minutes alone in the room are two completely different things. Sorry OP, I know you're a first time parent and I know the stresses, I'm not getting to you, just saying that there are different ways to do things and I've often thought of just leaving mine crying until they fall asleep but I know it's not the right thing to do...

Controlled crying is going into them at different intervals 5/10 minutes and reassuring them that you are still there and if they get too distressed then you stop and comfort them and when they stop crying start again.

Yve

minotour wrote: »

It just sounds like he's cutting his first tooth or maybe a bunch at the same time. Have you tried giving him "Teetha"

this stuff
http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=946

Give him a sachet of that before bed and see how he gets on. You werent wrong to try controlled crying despite some of the replies here but it does sound like a genuine distress i.e. Pain, most likely caused by the bumps on his gums. You could also try a dash of calpol or perhaps neurofen if he gets really bad.

I know its hard, Ive twins who did the same and ebay wasnt my first choice, a much quicker solution was the balcony, however we resisted.

Oh and on the picking up/not picking up issue, i would pick him up and try soothing, you cold also bring him to your bed but thats a slippery slope.

Thanks

Yes we give him teetha, we have the sachets and the gel, plus we have chammomile syrup and aniseed herbal stuff.

Had been giving him calpol but advised as he worsened to give him nurofen because of its anti inflamatory qualities.

we had been taking him to our bed you see... hence whay we keep being told we have dug our own graves now and he is in the habit of coming to bed with us...

but sure he screams in the bed too.... I have an appointment for tomorrow now.. if I am told to go health nurse I may change GP

Yve

January wrote: »

Controlled crying and letting the baby cry for up to 30 minutes alone in the room are two completely different things. Sorry OP, I know you're a first time parent and I know the stresses, I'm not getting to you, just saying that there are different ways to do things and I've often thought of just leaving mine crying until they fall asleep but I know it's not the right thing to do...

Controlled crying is going into them at different intervals 5/10 minutes and reassuring them that you are still there and if they get too distressed then you stop and comfort them and when they stop crying start again.

oh no we did that every few mins and put his soother back in and he got sick after 30 mins... i couldnt leave the room , i lay in the bed in his room in the dark

Yve

January wrote: »

Your doctor should not be referring you back to the health nurse and if he is then please see another doctor.

It's a long road... my three year old still does not sleep through, she doesn't scream going to bed anymore though... I have a two year old and a 9 week old also, so it's not easy going. I just ended up taking her into the bed with me for a few months to get some sleep it was that bad... but it's different for everyone, my other two children are great sleepers, even the nine week old!

If it's teething, it can go on for a good while yet, my two year old is still teething and has sleepless nights sometimes... is it possible he's cold/hungry? What does he eat before he goes to bed? If he's drinking bottles at night time he's obviously still hungry because he wouldn't take it if he was full.

he has his dinner and has 8/9 ounces bottle before bed... has a whopper of an appetite and eats a lot during the day...

Yve

How Strange wrote: »

Groan...op please ignore that health nurse and anyone else who mentions bad habits or spoiling in the same sentence as your little son. Hes a wee baby not some master manipulator.

My son was driven absolutely crazy with teething pains from 3 months and like you we used far too much calpol and nurofen. I got him an amber teething necklace from teethingsos.com when he was 7 months and there was an almost immediate change in his temperment and most importantly in his sleeping. I've seen it mentioned that strong chamomile tea in a bath helps as does chamomila 30c which you can get from a homeopath or health store.

I think a trip to the gp is a good idea too just to rule out an ear infection or something else.

Thank you so much for the advice.

It's so tough isnt it.... you can face anything in the day but when you only get 2-3 hours sleep at night its just so hard
i am going to get one of those necklaces - anything to try help him

Sin City

Yve wrote: »

How Strange wrote: »

Groan...op please ignore that health nurse and anyone else who mentions bad habits or spoiling in the same sentence as your little son. Hes a wee baby not some master manipulator.

My son was driven absolutely crazy with teething pains from 3 months and like you we used far too much calpol and nurofen. I got him an amber teething necklace from teethingsos.com when he was 7 months and there was an almost immediate change in his temperment and most importantly in his sleeping. I've seen it mentioned that strong chamomile tea in a bath helps as does chamomila 30c which you can get from a homeopath or health store.

I think a trip to the gp is a good idea too just to rule out an ear infection or something else.

Thank you so much for the advice.

It's so tough isnt it.... you can face anything in the day but when you only get 2-3 hours sleep at night its just so hard
i am going to get one of those necklaces - anything to try help him

Like everyone else.I would bring him to gp. Be careful with the neurofen I gave it to my son and he ended up with renal failure (won't happen to most children ) hopefully its just teething and some teething medicine may help . As a last resort just so one of ye can sleep someone could if possible spend the night in bed with him see if he will seattle easier .

Ayla

OP - You haven't mentioned what he's like during the day. Does he nap in his cot by himself (or at all?) Does he have these fits when he's going about his normal daytime activities?

I ask b/c if it's something that only seems to bother him when he's laying down, maybe it's not just teeth. Perhaps some acid reflux, which may also explain why he gets sick?

Just another (!) thing to consider. Good luck to you -

Yve

Ayla wrote: »

OP - You haven't mentioned what he's like during the day. Does he nap in his cot by himself (or at all?) Does he have these fits when he's going about his normal daytime activities?

I ask b/c if it's something that only seems to bother him when he's laying down, maybe it's not just teeth. Perhaps some acid reflux, which may also explain why he gets sick?

Just another (!) thing to consider. Good luck to you -

Hi Ayla

Little man is great during the day and is such a happy little man. has his two naps and goes down without the tiniest of whimper. (and like clock work)

It's just the night. he can wake at 10 - 12 and then again 2 -4 or 5.. it's exhausting and frustrating because we just hate hearing him cry like that.

He sleeps 2 and a half hours maximum total in the day so an over abundance of sleep in the day time cannot be the issue.

oh christ i dunno - will check out if there is something more going on other than teething... if its just teething, i dunno..... please santa bring him a tooth or two

rubberdiddies

Can I ask those who say that leaving a child cry to sleep for 20 mins is not good, why do you think it's not good?

Are there studies to show it's not good?

Genuinely interested.......

Moonbeam

Does the baby having crying fits during the day?
When did it start?

Ayla

I feel your pain - there were many nights I alternated between sobbing myself & eyeing up the distance to the nearest window

I'm just thinking that - given the details you've given - a couple things could be going on:

1. If he goes down for naps & to bed without a hitch, then it's not the cot he's resisting. I would be wondering if there wasn't something else going on, maybe something that only starts rearing its head after a couple hours' sleep (thus it wouldn't affect his daytime naps?) This is why I was thinking reflux (or similar) - maybe it takes awhile to build up, or maybe he sleeps deeply enough in the first hour or so that he doesn't notice it? Have you tried propping up the head end of the cot (ie: put a heavy book under the legs of the cot) or giving him a flat pillow to elevate his head?

2. I personally wouldn't think that it's any sort of seperation anxiety, b/c if it was he would settle instantly as soon as he's picked up (and he'd surely settle quickly if you brought him into bed). But he's not doing either, so I would personally say stuff it to anyone who's telling him to "cry it out."

friendlylady

Yve my heart goes out to you, you must be at your wits end. Your doctor I guarantee will not refer you back to your PHN. It sounds very like reflux to me, have you tried infasol drops (name might be slightly wrong, it's been a few years). Maybe try sleeping him in his buggy beside your bed tonight so that his top half is slightly raised, it can help with reflux (if this is the case and I'm not a medical professional by any means) but anyway good luck with GP tomorrow and let us know how you get on.:)

Yve

Moonbeam wrote: »

Does the baby having crying fits during the day?
When did it start?

never any crying fits during the day.

whole day goes so smoothly with him.

Goes directly to sleep at naps and when going to bed.

Its during the night the fun begins

oh and its rolling on two weeks now... previously he had been sleeping fine 8-05.30, would have bottle and go back to sleep till 7 for us

Ayla

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Can I ask those who say that leaving a child cry to sleep for 20 mins is not good, why do you think it's not good?

Are there studies to show it's not good?

Genuinely interested.......

Here's one:
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/science-says-excessive-crying-could-be-harmful

And another quote:

Leaving a baby to cry evokes physiological responses that increase stress hormones. Crying infants experience an increase in heart rate, body temperature and blood pressure. These reactions are likely to result in overheating and, along with vomiting due to extreme distress, could pose a potential risk of SIDS in vulnerable infants. There may also be longer-term emotional effects. There is compelling evidence that increased levels of stress hormones may cause permanent changes in the stress responses of the infant's developing brain. These changes then affect memory, attention, and emotion, and can trigger an elevated response to stress throughout life...

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/pinky_mckay.html

And another:

A review of the key literature supporting the use of extinction in infancy, however, reveals that the majority of studies were not conducted on infants, but rather on toddlers and preschoolers. ... As a result, the effects of crying it out for infants under 1 year have yet to be adequately investigated. Further, the notion that extended crying is not harmful for infants has never been empirically investigated.

http://www.infantsleep.org/cryingitoutresearch.html

January

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Can I ask those who say that leaving a child cry to sleep for 20 mins is not good, why do you think it's not good?

Are there studies to show it's not good?

Genuinely interested.......

Ayla wrote: »

Here's one:
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/science-says-excessive-crying-could-be-harmful

And another quote:
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/pinky_mckay.html

And another:
http://www.infantsleep.org/cryingitoutresearch.html

All the above, plus to mention it's just plain mean! Imagine being that small and hungry/cold/tired/sore or even just wanting a cuddle and you're just left in a room to cry to yourself...

Ayla

January wrote: »

All the above, plus to mention it's just plain mean! Imagine being that small and hungry/cold/tired/sore or even just wanting a cuddle and you're just left in a room to cry to yourself...

Agreed, you'd hardly do that to an adult, but somehow folks think it's ok to do it to a baby who has no concept what the heck's going on.

wmpdd3

Oh YVE, my heart really goes out to you. I'm a first time mum too and my little one slept like you little guy before this episode. She only had to hear me making the bottle and she'd be nearly back asleep. She's 14 months now but she only get teeth at 10 months too. And I'm pregnant too!!

She would wake up screaming and then after I gave her the bottle, IF, she drank some of it she would scream until she puked, could only be 3 minutes later.

The chemist advised nurophen too for the anti inflammatory qualities when I said calpol wasn't working.

Even when I brought her down stairs and watched telly, she wasnt herself, she was clearly in pain or pi55ed off!

I usually just brought her down stairs rather than bed as she'd just wake up other half.

All that time, when I look back at photos I realised her cheeks were massive and her eyes were sunken form lack of sleep etc.

When she was 10 and a half months she got 2 teeth one morning and after that she was much better.

I also got the amber necklace, I found them brilliant though I couldnt really relax knowing it was around her neck in the night.

I think your doing everything as well as you can, listen to what the doctor says and make sure he is checked for everything.

It will get better, I am sure of it.

cynder

Mine never did the screaming thing, probably cause I picked them up as soon as they got upset, and I took them into my bed too, bad habits yes, good night sleep for all my eldest always had chest infections cutting teeth and my middle guy got ear infections sometimes when cutting teeth.

I've heard the amber necklaces are great, I never heard of them when I had mine