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"Privacy" and the new world order

  • 09-12-2011 9:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭


    Mods please move if in wrong place. Have no idea where it should go.

    Privacy, a dying concept or perhaps redundant in the new world order.

    Well, the new world order (or world norm maybe) has probably just arrived. I suppose it was only a matter of time when those bright young things who were about 15years old in and around 1990 when computers started making their mark and the internet quickly followed, became the movers and shakers of today. I believe Google has a relatively young work force throughout and I would further guess that the people there who make the policies which affect millions of people on the planet are not much over the 40 age mark. If I’m right it will probably give some support for the following thoughts.

    Privacy, now there’s an old fashioned word folks. I think that it’s a word that many of the under 42s ish really have little or no thoughts on and much less regard for in the sense that I will now try and explain. There’s a whole load of them and some who unfortunately are in a position of power and in particular Global power. It is some of those people who simply cannot properly comprehend the position that I and a fair few others hold regarding this thing called Privacy. And it is this, ‘that we want to try and keep hold of what little privacy we have left’. We value it somehow. It should be mentioned here that I have just been locked out of Youtube for not giving my personal numbers to them which is why you are reading this now. Full details of which are documented elsewhere and this is not the place to air them once again. (posting update, am back in Youtube now but have had to link email account).

    Where was I, oh yes, “privacy”, a dying concept and it wouldn’t surprise me if the word will be erased from all dictionaries and the English Language altogether before too long. Over the past 3 decades “Information” has become king. I remember in the 70s on a BBC programme called ‘Tomorrows World’ they talked about some new machine called a computer which will change the world. They were right of course. And between then and now how many times have we heard it said that the commodity of the future will be ‘Information’. Well the future is here and information is king.

    The predictions mentioned above are all fairly ok except when it comes to what some assume is nothing at all to worry about, perhaps its because the word is mentioned so often (but not understood in the sort of old fashioned sense). Yes it's that little thing called ‘Privacy’.

    There are those who say something like,
    “well fella, what you got to worry about, go on, give every organisation that asks for it your personal number, birth cert, and inside leg measurement, or have you got something to hide, I bet you have, you are up to no good aren’t you, what, you think they’re going to do something dodgy with it or leak it or something”. Of course they would never, ever do anything like that would they, ‘smile’ and of course the info could never be lost, stolen or leaked, grins. Well here’s the thing, I have nothing to hide and I am not up to no good. When I don’t want to give out personal information which I ‘deem is unnecessary’ I am simply ‘protecting my privacy’. If they don’t have it they can’t loose it or do whatever with it.

    Now here’s the tricky bit. This is such an extremely difficult concept for those on the other side of the fence so to speak (especially the young decision makers in Google and the like) to grasp because they’ve grown up in a world where more and more information is asked of people by companies who have the awesome technology/capability to store and process and use and dare I say it misuse as they seem fit. Those people see it as ‘totally normal’. They’ve been filling out boxes and giving out masses of information since they were school leavers without question in what seems to be a total ‘blind faith’ sort of way The sad thing is that this is ‘perfectly normal’ to them. Who would blame them, certainly not me, because they have never known anything different. Probably showing my age now but I have, (known something different). I understand completely the concept of ‘Privacy’. For most of my life it was ‘not normal’ to hand over masses of information to organisations with massive computing power.

    Another point about all this is that we the ‘Privacy Protectors Brigade’ understand the mindset of those that say ‘give it without question’ but they don’t seem to understand us or probably care. More sadly I doubt they ever will, why, because probably they’ve never had much privacy and we Privacy Protectors will always remain as some kind of freaks in their eyes. Also it will only get worse with the teenagers of the noughties growing up from a very young age with their Facebooks etc….absolutely normal to have ‘it’ all out there. Therefore it follows that any amount of debate will unfortunately be unlikely to change anything….Brave New World. Very sad.
    :(


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Definitely not a Consumer Issue - Let's try the Blogs/Wikis/Social Networks forum as that appears to be the most relevant

    dudara


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,849 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    All of which is rendered irrelevant with three simple words: "Don't use it". Don't want to give Facebook your email address? Don't use it. Don't want to give Youtube your mobile number? Don't use it. Don't want to give Amazon your credit card number? Don't use it.

    It really is that simple

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    28064212 wrote: »
    All of which is rendered irrelevant with three simple words: "Don't use it". Don't want to give Facebook your email address? Don't use it. Don't want to give Youtube your mobile number? Don't use it. Don't want to give Amazon your credit card number? Don't use it.

    It really is that simple

    your very funny...
    will I give up my car, house, refridgerater, tv , cooker, furniture and all the other things that we use and ...sort of can't live with out in the modern world........

    suddenly I don't think life would be "so simple" then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,849 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    your very funny...
    will I give up my car, house, refridgerater, tv , cooker, furniture and all the other things that we use and ...sort of can't live with out in the modern world........

    suddenly I don't think life would be "so simple" then.
    What "unnecessary" personal information is required to buy any of those things exactly?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    28064212 wrote: »
    What "unnecessary" personal information is required to buy any of those things exactly?


    Good, were almost there.......
    answere...'none'


    so give me your mobile phone number or I will arrange to take any of those things mentioned away from you if you have them.....
    .....now do you get it?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,849 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Good, were almost there.......
    answere...'none'


    so give me your mobile phone number or I will arrange to take any of those things mentioned away from you if you have them.....
    .....now do you get it?
    So you're worried about retailers asking for unnecessary personal information, even though none of them do at the moment, based entirely on the fact that social networks, which are designed for sharing information, do ask for it?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    28064212 wrote: »
    So you're worried about retailers asking for unnecessary personal information, even though none of them do at the moment, based entirely on the fact that social networks, which are designed for sharing information, do ask for it?


    you didn't get it.
    and I have a feeling your not going to get it.

    last try now, hopefully.....

    I am not worried about retailers asking for unnecessary information, they don't (as you rightly pointed out). It was to demonstrate to you the unnecessary request of gmail etc asking for numbers thereby eroding our privacy a little more as refered to in OP.

    Hope that clarifies the issue!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    There's a deal being offered - we'll give you FREE email/social networking/video phonecalling/storage/office suite/HD video hosting (or whatever takes your fancy).

    In return we will show you ads and collect your information which we may use for marketing purposes or sell (anonymised and in aggregate) to third parties.

    It's all in the pretty extensive user agreement you AGREED TO when you began using their free services.


    I'm not disagreeing with your desire for privacy, but I think the third post in this thread has it pretty much covered...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    -Chris- wrote: »
    There's a deal being offered - we'll give you FREE email/social networking/video phonecalling/storage/office suite/HD video hosting (or whatever takes your fancy).

    In return we will show you ads and collect your information which we may use for marketing purposes or sell (anonymised and in aggregate) to third parties.

    It's all in the pretty extensive user agreement you AGREED TO when you began using their free services.


    I'm not disagreeing with your desire for privacy, but I think the third post in this thread has it pretty much covered...

    I'm sure your probably right chris. Its still very sad. You can start to see from the responces that people just don't get it and never will as pointed out in OP. Everything has its price I suppose. An post charge 50c . All I want is to send letters more conveniently. Thats why I started a Hotmail account what was it now..13 years ago perhaps.
    I'd rather pay €5 euros a year for the account.
    Ah well, shame we can't go back to the good ol days eh:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    I don't want to go back to the good old days.

    I'm happy to have the choice to have a free 7GB email account, instant messenger system, photo hosting & publishing solution etc. (or not) if I choose to use it.

    If I want, I can decide not to use it. If I want, I can sign up with false or minimal details and use their service. If I want I can give them every little bit of info I have about myself.

    I'm glad to have the choice. It's made the world a smaller, better informed place.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    -Chris- wrote: »
    I don't want to go back to the good old days.

    I'm happy to have the choice to have a free 7GB email account, instant messenger system, photo hosting & publishing solution etc. (or not) if I choose to use it.

    If I want, I can decide not to use it. If I want, I can sign up with false or minimal details and use their service. If I want I can give them every little bit of info I have about myself.

    I'm glad to have the choice. It's made the world a smaller, better informed place.

    I know you don't chris. nor do i really.

    I only want an account to send letters.
    If I want to share other personal info I'll join facebook and the like.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    Well folks it looks like the end. And I do mean 'The End'. Looks like the 'Final Solution' is here. Rather coincidental given my OP at this time.

    Seems that the demise of Email itself is now upon us.
    The company Atos has announced that it is phasing out the use of email from its buisiness and here's the bit where I have the heart attack lol. It is going to rely on other means of communication ...Twitter, Link in and facebook. :eek:.

    Even on the radio this morning a business advice expert advises businesses to use Twitter and facebook. ( I don't use these incidently). Also a glossy book came through my door this week which advertised two large Irish companies which have websites ( I have used them in the past). It said to contact the companies via facebook and Twitter, no mention of their websites:eek:
    So it looks like the good ol fashioned (can't believe I said that lol ) website is dissapearing too:eek:. can you believe it.
    Yes the best thing since the main street shop to buy things in is about to dissapear.:eek:

    Everything is going to be 'linked' and I mean 'everything'.

    So now that really does mean that if I want to say buy a toothbrush on line I will very soon have to join Facebook or twitter or some such thing to do so. Its ludicrous. When I want to buy a toothbrush on line I want to go straight from my home pc to the online shop ie website. I don't want to have to go in and through the local online community centre to get to my toothbrush shop:cool:. God knows who might be watching me ( you haven't seen my taste in toothbrushes ) lol lol.

    The rate of change now is phenomenal. Unfortunately we might be racing down a 'highway to hell' never to 'be able' to return.

    One day years from now we might look back and say, My God what have we done. Too late then..........:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,303 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    that's not going to happen & you can't seriously believe it will.

    Twitter & Facebook are ahead of email in the ways people use to communicate with each other so surprise surprise various companies are using these means as well.

    you won't have to join a social network to buy stuff online & i don't know what makes you think you will.

    There are a lot of sites that are linked to social networks already(e.g. youtube) this is to allow the user to share stuff on them but is optional. Though i'm sure more & more websites are including this feature(which i think your picking up from somewhere & getting mixed up), so maybe Amazon will and you can share with your online friends the great deal you got on a toothbrush.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    that's not going to happen & you can't seriously believe it will.

    Twitter & Facebook are ahead of email in the ways people use to communicate with each other so surprise surprise various companies are using these means as well.

    you won't have to join a social network to buy stuff online & i don't know what makes you think you will.

    There are a lot of sites that are linked to social networks already(e.g. youtube) this is to allow the user to share stuff on them but is optional. Though i'm sure more & more websites are including this feature(which i think your picking up from somewhere & getting mixed up), so maybe Amazon will and you can share with your online friends the great deal you got on a toothbrush.

    Thank you for that. Perhaps I may have got it a little wrong. I hope I have.

    Something slighty different. Although I'm not a member, this new 'Timeline' thingy on facebook is causing a few concerns. I read the 10 main points about it but its still a bit foggy to me. Will it mean that even stuff you deleted from your account is going to come back up?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,303 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    Thank you for that. Perhaps I may have got it a little wrong. I hope I have.

    Something slighty different. Although I'm not a member, this new 'Timeline' thingy on facebook is causing a few concerns. I read the 10 main points about it but its still a bit foggy to me. Will it mean that even stuff you deleted from your account is going to come back up?

    No. Short answer but there's no other for it :pac:

    you can get the timeline now & "review it" as it says, decide what to delete, stories to highlight(make them bigger can't remember what its called now) add stuff etc. then publish it.
    It also says that the timeline goes live on the 26th so this must be for everyone who doesn't change over early

    I was messing around with it yesterday and some things still seem buggy, the map for example. You'd expect that though & i've a feeling a lot of people won't like it(will be complaining about it), i also think its better if the person is really active on facebook, it looks shít enough otherwise(like mine :D)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    Heard tech guy on radio talking about it.
    He said tagging is a concern.
    It goes something like this.........
    If a friend of yours takes a pic of you (perhaps one that you yourself would not put up, ie drunk) and that person puts it on his profile and then because you are a 'friend' with him on facebook he then 'Tags' you immeadiately without your knowlegde. What then happens is that a message is sent to all your friends on facebook about the new pic and they can then go and view it. Its something along those lines anyway.:eek:

    Heres another. Somehow if you view an article in a newspaper or magazine which is somehow linked to facebook again another message is sent to 'all' your friends teliing them what you are reading:eek:. again it something along those lines.........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Heard tech guy on radio talking about it.
    He said tagging is a concern.
    It goes something like this.........
    If a friend of yours takes a pic of you (perhaps one that you yourself would not put up, ie drunk) and that person puts it on his profile and then because you are a 'friend' with him on facebook he then 'Tags' you immeadiately without your knowlegde. What then happens is that a message is sent to all your friends on facebook about the new pic and they can then go and view it. Its something along those lines anyway.:eek:

    Heres another. Somehow if you view an article in a newspaper or magazine which is somehow linked to facebook again another message is sent to 'all' your friends teliing them what you are reading:eek:. again it something along those lines.........
    You can opt out of both of these things.

    You can prevent people from tagging you in photos, and the above article explicitly tells you, "We are going to post on your wall and tell your friends you've read this article", and you have the option of declining.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭the watchman


    seamus wrote: »
    You can opt out of both of these things.

    You can prevent people from tagging you in photos, and the above article explicitly tells you, "We are going to post on your wall and tell your friends you've read this article", and you have the option of declining.


    .......so if you have not read any emails or been on Facebook for 14days (which means you have niether agreed or declined) does it go up anyway or is it stopped untill you agree or decline?.


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