General Star Trek thread

fritzelly

I'm looking forward to something about section 31, gives a bit of carte blanche with what they do

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly what I immediately thought. There were glimpses of a "good" empress, in some of the episodes. I think that they will even have her rebel against S31 by the end

One'd presume that's how they'll play it, in fact I can see the tropes now

Pilot: Georgiou is having a blast, causing havoc across the Galaxy for Section 31, loving the carnage she leaves. But! Something happens on her latest job to give her pause; maybe seeing some echo of her childhood, or an alien family that helped her when she was vulnerable - or maybe Section 31 betrays her - so suddenly she's doubting the motives of the organisation are the best way forward. Cue 13 episodes of narrative pearl clutching from the ex-Empress, before turning on her masters by season's end.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

One'd presume that's how they'll play it, in fact I can see the tropes now

Pilot: Georgiou is having a blast, causing havoc across the Galaxy for Section 31, loving the carnage she leaves. But! Something happens on her latest job to give her pause; maybe seeing some echo of her childhood, or an alien family that helped her when she was vulnerable - or maybe Section 31 betrays her - so suddenly she's doubting the motives of the organisation are the best way forward. Cue 13 episodes of narrative pearl clutching from the ex-Empress, before turning on her masters by season's end.

But isn't that growth exactly what people are clamouring for, as in "real" Trek...:pac:

Daith

DS9 is my favourite show but I'm slightly saddened that Section 31 is its most main contribution to the Trekverse.

Daith

Daith wrote: »

DS9 is my favourite show but I'm slightly saddened that Section 31 is its most main contribution to the Trekverse.

They are like the Borg. Best used in small doses

TheValeyard

Daith wrote: »

DS9 is my favourite show but I'm slightly saddened that Section 31 is its most main contribution to the Trekverse.

They did help to really flesh out the Cardassian Species though. We learned a lot about their history, social aspects, culture, war n peace, etc.

They also gave us more insight to Bajorians, Ferengi and intro to The Dominion.

And of course, Defiant class ships

Rawr

Daith wrote: »

DS9 is my favourite show but I'm slightly saddened that Section 31 is its most main contribution to the Trekverse.

I felt that S31 was a bit of a missed oppertunity, but nonetheless a welcome glimps of a broader Federation where things aren't nessisarily as well polished as the proffesional morally-guided Starfleet would make you believe.

Things seemed too perfect.

One of my favourite Sisko quotes highlights this too:

Sisko: Do you know what the trouble is? The trouble is Earth. On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. It's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the demilitarized zone all the problems haven't been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints, just people...angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive.

It always made some sense for the Federation to have it's own Tal'Shiar or Obsidian Order, and there was an interesting juxtposition of the Federation secretly using uneathical methods to get it's way. But beyond that, I liked the idea of a wider Federation where more stuff was going on. Star Fleet is fun and all...but I'm curious about the rest of the Federation. We only ever got brief snippets of life there...and if done well, maybe a S31 show might show more of this?

pixelburp

I think it comes down to one of the key problems with Trek in general, in that for all its galactic scope, the politics and societies were often guilty of being very parochial, and monocultural; we would hear of vast empires but almost never see what - for instance - a Klingon colony nearer the edge of its influence would look like, especially planets with indigenous populations. Nor would there be any sense of what planets beyond the Homeworld were important, instead usually visiting the same series of space stations or agrarian colonies. If you believed Trek, nobody outside of Earth lived in cities or on planets with their own unique structure.

Basically, I don't feel like I've ever really visited the Federation - not really. Obviously the biggest exception to that was DS9's premise in the first place, the post-colonial Bajor.

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

I felt that S31 was a bit of a missed oppertunity, but nonetheless a welcome glimps of a broader Federation where things aren't nessisarily as well polished as the proffesional morally-guided Starfleet would make you believe.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of the races we typically associate as being Federation citizens outside of it late 24th early and 25th century, like Bilby in Honour Among Thieves or Hagath* in Business as Usual.


*No forehead thingy and no telepathy so I'm assuming Human

Inviere

pixelburp wrote: »

I think it comes down to one of the key problems with Trek in general, in that for all its galactic scope, the politics and societies were often guilty of being very parochial, and monocultural

For me, that's because Trek often used entire other cultures, as a mirror for single aspects of our own culture. Kilingons were hostile, aggressive, and primal. Romulans were devious, cunning, and dishonest. Ferengi were greedy, sexist, and driven by material pursuits. Cardassians were oppressive, cruel, and idealised 'the state.' Bajorans were spirited, victimised, and fought for freedom. Insert most other races here, and you could do the same for them.

I think Trek could get away with this certainly for TOS, and perhaps up to and including TNG. It began to get limiting then, and DS9 certainly took things forward. It developed the hell outta the Bajorans, Cardassians, and Ferengi...and gave us a much broader look at their cultures. Voyager though took a serious step backwards, and began treating different races as monocultural once again; whereby tv and story telling had moved on by this point, and audiences weren't as convinced by this as they once were.

In fact since DS9, no other Star Trek series has really stepped up to the plate in this regard.

AMKC

pixelburp wrote: »

I think it comes down to one of the key problems with Trek in general, in that for all its galactic scope, the politics and societies were often guilty of being very parochial, and monocultural; we would hear of vast empires but almost never see what - for instance - a Klingon colony nearer the edge of its influence would look like, especially planets with indigenous populations. Nor would there be any sense of what planets beyond the Homeworld were important, instead usually visiting the same series of space stations or agrarian colonies. If you believed Trek, nobody outside of Earth lived in cities or on planets with their own unique structure.

Basically, I don't feel like I've ever really visited the Federation - not really. Obviously the biggest exception to that was DS9's premise in the first place, the post-colonial Bajor.

If you believed Trek, nobody outside of Earth lived in cities or on planets with their own unique structure.
Why do you think that. We got to see lots of cities on other planets outside of the Federation. We got to see the Capital of Bajor,Kronos, Cardassia and Romulas. We got to see how the Klingons and Cardassians do there own justice system and how the Klingons elect a new leader.

Inviere

Ok so it's CG (a CG recreation, not from the original film/model negatives), but still, bloody impressive

Inviere

Voyager one too, this one looks even better because the original intro is so CG heavy, so it's less noticeable in this. Amazing looking

coffee_cake

Syfy showing the TOS movies. Good craic. So cheesy

Kiith

There's something...floatier (for lack of a better made up word) about those CG recreations of DS9 and Voy. They look great, but this looks way better. If only they'd followed through and remade the entire season.

Inviere

Kiith wrote: »

There's something...floatier (for lack of a better made up word) about those CG recreations of DS9 and Voy.

Yeah they're not quite broadcast standard, and as we've been watching those intros for 25+ years, we know them inside out.

Evade

Changing the Bajoran transport for an off-scale Federation fighter really threw me.

Cookie_Monster

Inviere wrote: »

Yeah they're not quite broadcast standard, and as we've been watching those intros for 25+ years, we know them inside out.

Ah, but do you. Did you know about the impossibly tiny planet in Voyager?
I only saw this last week...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUiDc6pOfxw

Sonics2k

I started watching Deep Space Nine from the start. I'm 8 episodes in and I'd forgotten just what a great job this show does of establishing it's main cast.

So far we've had episodes dedicated to Sisko, Major Kira, Chief O'Brian, Dax and Bashir. And they've introduced Garak who goes on to be extremely important down the line. Background on the Bajoran and Cardassian wars, the acts of terrorism, the prisons and even the Klingon Civil War.

Compared to a lot of TV shows now (looking at you Discovery and Enterprise) it's already done a better job of world-building than many shows do over entire seasons.

Daith

Sonics2k wrote: »

I started watching Deep Space Nine from the start. I'm 8 episodes in and I'd forgotten just what a great job this show does of establishing it's main cast.

So far we've had episodes dedicated to Sisko, Major Kira, Chief O'Brian, Dax and Bashir. And they've introduced Garak who goes on to be extremely important down the line. Background on the Bajoran and Cardassian wars, the acts of terrorism, the prisons and even the Klingon Civil War.

Compared to a lot of TV shows now (looking at you Discovery and Enterprise) it's already done a better job of world-building than many shows do over entire seasons.

Yup. When people ask me if they should start with Season 3 of DS9 ("when do the Dominion show up, I heard that's when it gets good"), I tell them they should watch it from the beginning.

It does such a good job establishing everything and I don't think you'd get the say the Sisko/Kira dynamic and it's growth if you just started of with Season 3.

Rawr

Daith wrote: »

Yup. When people ask me if they should start with Season 3 of DS9 ("when do the Dominion show up, I heard that's when it gets good"), I tell them they should watch it from the beginning.

It does such a good job establishing everything and I don't think you'd get the say the Sisko/Kira dynamic and it's growth if you just started of with Season 3.

You have the love the way they managed to foreshadow The Dominion from very early on. They did an excellent job at implying that there was something very large and very dangerous out there on the other side of the wormhole.

TheValeyard

Rawr wrote: »

You have the love the way they managed to foreshadow The Dominion from very early on. They did an excellent job at implying that there was something very large and very dangerous out there on the other side of the wormhole.

Yeah a whisper there, word used here. Was very clever. Briefly mentioned by the Dosi.

horgan_p

I wonder if we will finish up with a DS9/Voyager type situation.
The Section 31 series being the more dark one, like DS9 was and discovery becomes the lighter one like Voyager.

Certainly discovery (and I know its only 2 episodes in) is lightening the overall mood this season.

TheValeyard

horgan_p wrote: »

I wonder if we will finish up with a DS9/Voyager type situation.
The Section 31 series being the more dark one, like DS9 was and Enterprise becomes the lighter one like Voyager.

Certainly Enterprise (and I know its only 2 episodes in) is lightening the overall mood this season.

Enterprise had a big mix. Light and fluffy some episodes but got very dark in season three.

flazio

horgan_p wrote: »

I wonder if we will finish up with a DS9/Voyager type situation.
The Section 31 series being the more dark one, like DS9 was and Enterprise becomes the lighter one like Voyager.

Certainly Enterprise (and I know its only 2 episodes in) is lightening the overall mood this season.

Presume you mean Discovery.

AMKC

So I see Patrick Stewart is going to be on the Graham Norton Show tonight. Always a great guest.

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

So I see Patrick Stewart is going to be on the Graham Norton Show tonight. Always a great guest.

Some BeefStew

AMKC

So he said on Graham Norton that the new show is set 19 years after the events of Nemesis I take it. I wonder why they choose 19 years and not 20 or 21 years later?

Inviere

Finally, some forward movement in the timeline. I’d imagine they’ll keep things tight though, and not delve too much in the current political standings in the alpha/beta quadrants. I’d say it’ll be quite character focused, which isn’t a bad thing at all.

Incidentally, I’ve listed a few Star Trek models on Adverts, if anyone is interested - https://www.adverts.ie/member/94789/ads

368100

AMKC wrote: »

So he said on Graham Norton that the new show is set 19 years after the events of Nemesis I take it. I wonder why they choose 19 years and not 20 or 21 years later?

He said It's 19 years in real life since he put on the uniform