General Star Trek thread

pixelburp

Goodshape wrote: »

...is pretty bad.

...is largely irrelevant, I'd have thought.

And I'm neither defending nor criticising anything here. Just I rarely/never hear "Obama ordered more executions of a US citizens without trial than Bush did" but often hear that he used more technology – which didn't really exist when Bush was in charge – than Bush did.

Meh. Language matters, that's all.


Star Trek's good.

I agree.




Start Trek IS good.

AMKC

pixelburp wrote: »

I agree.




Star Trek IS good.

That's a new one. You might want to fix your post as I just did.

Star Trek is great.

Rawr

Goodshape wrote: »

The Boy?!

368100

Rawr wrote: »

Personally, I blame Neelix for that one

I can't stand Neelix....most annoying trek character ever. And as for "Tuvix"....creepiest trek character ever

Rawr

368100 wrote: »

I can't stand Neelix....most annoying trek character ever. And as for "Tuvix"....creepiest trek character ever

Don't forget Naomi Wildman, she really gave Neelix a run or his money on the annoyance scale. No surprise that they usually had the two appear together in many scenes boosting their mutual annoyance.

Rawr

Rawr wrote: »

Don't forget Naomi Wildman, she really gave Neelix a run or his money on the annoyance scale. No surprise that they usually had the two appear together in many scenes boosting their mutual annoyance.

Nah, kid characters get a semi pass. They are bound to be annoying, they're kids.
Neelix though...

368100

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nah, kid characters get a semi pass. They are bound to be annoying, they're kids.
Neelix though...

Imagine Neelix as a kid :-O

AMKC

368100 wrote: »

Imagine Neelix as a kid :-O

I don't want too. The part that really pissed me of about Neelix and I don't blame the actor or the character. It was the writers fault I would say was when he said mister Vulcan. Eh would it have been really that hard to say Commander Tuvok? Ok maybe the right thing to say would be lieutenant Commander but even Commander would have been better than what he would say.

Rawr

AMKC wrote: »

I don't want too. The part that really pissed me of about Neelix and I don't blame the actor or the character. It was the writers fault I would say was when he said mister Vulcan. Eh would it have been really that hard to say Commander Tuvok? Ok maybe the right thing to say would be lieutenant Commander but even Commander would have been better than what he would say.

I feel that Neelix was a bit of an odd addition that they didn't know how to use. It made perfect sense to have a Delta Quadrant local as a friendly guide to the newly arrived Voyager crew, and the whole thing about rescuing Kes was a decent plot-device to introduce everyone to this new part of the Star Trek world.

However after a handful of episodes I feel like they were kind of at a loss with what to do with him. (And Kes for that matter). With his self-appointed role as Ship's Cook, he sort of slotted into the role of 10-Forward's Guinen or DS9's Quark. By now in TNG Trek, having a Bar-keep polishing a glass while listening to people's woes appeard to have become part of the default Trek recipe. So he still did make sense on Voyager in this way too...but his usefulness as Ship's Delta Local was very limited. It would mostly boil down to Janeway asking some advice and then....that was mostly it. Kes was barely used at all before long either. They also seemed to only occasionally remember about them having Neelix's ship in the shuttlebay.

Once they crossed over Borg Space, Neelix seemed to make very little sense. Kes was now gone. Their thinly-developed relationship ended off-screen and then she was jettisoned in favor of Seven (who despite her own character's writing issues was a massive upgrade I feel). Due to him being an established character he was now part of the ship's "Family", and so he stayed anyway. However now they had to invent jobs for him to fill in for the 'local-knowledge' that was now gone. So then we end up having him as an annoying Ship's Cheerleader, and perennial baby-sitter for any kid the ship encountered. Forever condemned to play Space-BlockBusters with them. There was some "Ambassador" nonsense too...but they barely did anything with that either.

For his annoying ways I kind of hate how they ended his story. Conveniently finding an asteroid filled with Talaxians waaaaaaay on the far side of Borg Space, seems hard to swallow. It was brutally obvious that this late Season 7 episode was Neelix's swan song. It was not a good episode if I remember right, and I think kind of smacked of the lackluster writing that had infected the last seasons of Voyager.

pixelburp

Anyone else reading Netflix instead of Neelix? This thread keeps being confusing for the first second I click into it

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

Anyone else reading Netflix instead of Neelix? This thread keeps being confusing for the first second I click into it

You're not the only one it seems:

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

I don't want too. The part that really pissed me of about Neelix and I don't blame the actor or the character. It was the writers fault I would say was when he said mister Vulcan. Eh would it have been really that hard to say Commander Tuvok? Ok maybe the right thing to say would be lieutenant Commander but even Commander would have been better than what he would say.

I always liked that TBH. He was trying to get under Tuvok's skin and Tuvok deserved it for being an assh0le towards Neelix

Justin Credible Darts

Q summed up neelix perfectly when he called him Kitchen rat.

one of the worst main trek characters on any show.
Up there with cardboard geordi, plastic dr crusher, and her annoying son the cringeworthy wesley.

AMKC

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Q summed up neelix perfectly when he called him Kitchen rat.

one of the worst main trek characters on any show.
Up there with cardboard geordi, plastic dr crusher, and her annoying son the cringeworthy wesley.

Awe now leave Dr Crusher alone.

Q summed up neelix perfectly when he called him Kitchen rat.

I thought that was a bit harsh and nasty but then Q was never none for being kind with his word as he used to call Worf Micro brain lol.

368100

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Q summed up neelix perfectly when he called him Kitchen rat.

one of the worst main trek characters on any show.
Up there with cardboard geordi, plastic dr crusher, and her annoying son the cringeworthy wesley.

Ah now...they were nowhere near as annoying as Neelix. Geordie was a bit cringe the way her got on with women, but I thought Crusher was ok...and I dont really get all the hate for Wesley....he was a kid at the end of the day...just an eager one.

Goodshape

Geordi was great! Deserved better writers when it came to the ladies but nothing wrong with the character.

And I think in hindsight Wesley really wasn't that bad. Some awful writing again, particularly in the first two seasons, but he's not that awful of a character on rewatch.

Dr. Crusher was nothing though. No arc. No personality or character at all outside her relationship with Picard and Wesley. Honestly feel bad Gates McFadden that they didn't do more with her. Pulaski might not have been particularly likeable but even being unlikeable is something. Far preferred her as ships doctor.

368100

Goodshape wrote: »

Geordi was great! Deserved better writers when it came to the ladies but nothing wrong with the character.

And I think in hindsight Wesley really wasn't that bad. Some awful writing again, particularly in the first two seasons, but he's not that awful of a character on rewatch.

Dr. Crusher was nothing though. No arc. No personality or character at all outside her relationship with Picard and Wesley. Honestly feel bad Gates McFadden that they didn't do more with her. Pulaski might not have been particularly likeable but even being unlikeable is something. Far preferred her as ships doctor.

God no....Pulaski was very grating....not even sure they intended it that way....and pretty much a rehash of Dr McCoy.

vargoo

New Starfleet Academy show coming, I only just spotted that now

AMKC

Goodshape wrote: »

Geordi was great! Deserved better writers when it came to the ladies but nothing wrong with the character.

And I think in hindsight Wesley really wasn't that bad. Some awful writing again, particularly in the first two seasons, but he's not that awful of a character on rewatch.

Dr. Crusher was nothing though. No arc. No personality or character at all outside her relationship with Picard and Wesley. Honestly feel bad Gates McFadden that they didn't do more with her. Pulaski might not have been particularly likeable but even being unlikeable is something. Far preferred her as ships doctor.

I never like Pulaski myself. They thought having a doctor like McCoy would be good for the show but it was bad. Just did not work with TNG. Would much prefer to have Crusher as my doctor any day.

Rawr

AMKC wrote: »

I never like Pulaski myself. They thought having a doctor like McCoy would be good for the show but it was bad. Just did not work with TNG. Would much prefer to have Crusher as my doctor any day.

Diana Muldaur was only ever a "Special Guest Actor" in the credits too. My guess is that they weren't too sure themselves and had her as a Guest Actor until they were sure she would work before giving her a higher billing.

From what I understand (at least from watching all of the TNG era shows) if you were a top billed actor with your name as "Starring" on the intro credits, you were guaranteed at least one line of dialogue in the show. (Quark had a knack of sometimes turning up at people's doors with a drink order if they ever had an episode that didn't really need him for the main plot, just so they could give him some dialogue. They started doing something similar with Kes too if I remember right...)

As a Special Guest Dr. Pulaski was in pretty much every episode, but they didn't *have* to use her. They had an easy way to drop her from a script if she didn't work out.

In the end I guess she didn't work out at TNG, since we get Crusher back fairly quickly.

Goodshape

Rawr wrote: »

In the end I guess she didn't work out at TNG, since we get Crusher back fairly quickly.

Debatable, but I think that was more to do with them wanting Gates McFadden back than Diana Muldaur or Pulaski "not working".

Honestly I liked her interactions with Data. Thought she was great in the Moriarty episode. And did well enough to carry the episode in Unnatural Selection.

Kinda "another McCoy", I guess, but distinct enough at the same time.

Crusher just never had anything to do.

368100

Goodshape wrote: »

Debatable, but I think that was more to do with them wanting Gates McFadden back than Diana Muldaur or Pulaski "not working".

Honestly I liked her interactions with Data. Thought she was great in the Moriarty episode. And did well enough to carry the episode in Unnatural Selection.

Kinda "another McCoy", I guess, but distinct enough at the same time.

Crusher just never had anything to do.

Wasn't Gates leaving for season two to do with an issue between her and one of the writers? That she was outspoken about the scripts being sexist and they wrote her off to Starfleet medical... think I read that somewhere.

But then the dislike for Pulaski led to a fan letter campaign to get her back so they knew they had to bring her back and Pstew ultimately convinced her to come back?.

knucklehead6

368100 wrote: »

Wasn't Gates leaving for season two to do with an issue between her and one of the writers? That she was outspoken about the scripts being sexist and they wrote her off to Starfleet medical... think I read that somewhere.

But then the dislike for Pulaski led to a fan letter campaign to get her back so they knew they had to bring her back and Pstew ultimately convinced her to come back?.

I thought it was cos she was pregnant?

pixelburp

Goodshape wrote: »

Geordi was great! Deserved better writers when it came to the ladies but nothing wrong with the character.

What was Geordi's character though? Like, apart from the "Geordi horny" angle; I'm struggling to think of a single defining characteristic that set him apart. He was a 'nice' character, who was a sounding board for Data's pursuit of humanity, but other than that ... ?

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

What was Geordi's character though? Like, apart from the "Geordi horny" angle; I'm struggling to think of a single defining characteristic that set him apart. He was a 'nice' character, who was a sounding board for Data's pursuit of humanity, but other than that ... ?

Eternal optimist, even by Star Trek standards. No matter how much life beat him down he always looked for the positives.

Evade

Evade wrote: »

Eternal optimist, even by Star Trek standards. No matter how much life beat him down he always looked for the positives.

He introduced us to Ashley Judd

knucklehead6

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He introduced us to Ashley Judd

Mmmmm Ensign Lefler.

TheValeyard

I liked Georgi. Thought he played the role well as this super impressive engineer. Great with engines, sh1t with women. He was likeable, competent saved the day a few times. And he had a cool visor. Which I bought a toy version of an a kid.

Rawr

TheValeyard wrote: »

I liked Georgi. Thought he played the role well as this super impressive engineer. Great with engines, sh1t with women. He was likeable, competent saved the day a few times. And he had a cool visor. Which I bought a toy version of an a kid.

Same here. I was always more into the Engineering side of Trek, with the likes of Scotty, O'Brien and of course LaForge being amongst my favourite trek characters of the day. (I never really warmed up to Torres though...she was just so pissed off in the early days...and the whole Marquis angle felt underdeveloped....)

I liked LaForge. His friendship with Data felt natural and his fecklessness with women was somewhat endearing (up until the point he starts holo-stalking ship designers...then it is creepy). But above it all he was an awesome engineer who was optimistic and a professional Fleet Officer, which for a tech-geek like myself made him pretty awesome.

I'm unsure why he wasn't made engineer in Season 1. The Enterprise D didn't appear to have a permanent Chief Engineer during the first year. A couple of guest actors filled the role, while LaForge was a red-shirted Conn Officer on the bridge. A main cast role for Chief Engineer seemed like an odd omission for a new Trek show...especially since having someone like Scotty was already an established part of the Trek recipe by then.

Goodshape

pixelburp wrote: »

What was Geordi's character though? Like, apart from the "Geordi horny" angle; I'm struggling to think of a single defining characteristic that set him apart. He was a 'nice' character, who was a sounding board for Data's pursuit of humanity, but other than that ... ?

Yeah, not the deepest of characters but few were on TNG.

He was a great engineer and a good friend. Loved his job and knew his ship inside and out. Seemed like he would have been difficult to replace. Had holodeck adventures. Laughed and joked and had a personality.

Rarely centre stage but a welcome part of the cast / crew.