General Star Trek thread

Evade

Evade wrote: »

Yeah that's not a good look but to be very fair they had already established that it's 39+ degrees and very humid in Engineering.

Yeah but then they have him swinging across ducting and being an action hero.

This is a guy (Picard not Stewart) who couldn't throw a believable punch in Generations.
It was just so jarring

Evade

Him not being able to throw a punch in Generations seems like it could the outlier. He's never shown to be sedentary, he's fences, rides horses, and plays racquetball. He's also the guy they sent on a covert mission to infiltrate a secret Cardassian base.

EDIT: And there was an episode that was basically Die Hard in space too, Starship Mine.

pixelburp

First Contact would have worked better as a Kirk adventure IMO. It's a good Trek movie, just not a great fit for Picard.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

First Contact would have worked better as a Kirk adventure IMO. It's a good Trek movie, just not a great fit for Picard.

That's kinda my take on it. They came up with the plot points and bent characters to fit.

AMKC

Evade wrote: »

I like the captains waistcoat.

A couple of issue I had were:

• The Borg weapons were very weak when they were firing on Bozeman.
• The Borg Queen would have been just as effective if she was another Locutus in the Queen/Data scenes and it wouldn't have fundamentally changed the Borg.
• Worf and the Defiant would have worked better if Worf was shaking down a new Defiant class ship, Utopia Planetia is right there anyway, instead of taking it away from DS9 to fight the Borg without Sisko for some reason.

Worf and the Defiant would have worked better if Worf was shaking down a new Defiant class ship, Utopia Planetia is right there anyway, instead of taking it away from DS9 to fight the Borg without Sisko for some reason.

Put Worf took the Defiant out under his command plenty of times. Why would Worf be shaking down a new Defiant class ship? If he was he certainly would not have been bringing it into a fight with the Borg.

I see no problem with him been there with that Defiant as long as DS9 did not need it and the Borg threat was deemed a bigger threat. This was 1996 so what 3 or 4 years into DS9 so the Dominion War had not started yet.

DenMan

Stardate wise Star Trek: First Contact is set after Cardassia joined the Dominion even though it was filmed before it. When they are thinking the Dominion is about to invade the Alpha Quadrant Sisko makes reference to the recent Borg attack prior to Cardassia actually becoming part of the Dominion.

Evade

AMKC wrote: »

Put Worf took the Defiant out under his command plenty of times. Why would Worf be shaking down a new Defiant class ship? If he was he certainly would not have been bringing it into a fight with the Borg.

I see no problem with him been there with that Defiant as long as DS9 did not need it and the Borg threat was deemed a bigger threat. This was 1996 so what 3 or 4 years into DS9 so the Dominion War had not started yet.

Sisko has a history with the Borg too, him sending Worf seems out of character. They did have a reason why he couldn't go planned, his trip with Eddington, but changed up something before filming so that ended up taking place after the Borg attack instead.

Worf at this time is the second most experienced Defiant class commander, as far as we know. Him getting a temporarily assigned to Utopia Planetia, which is pretty close to Earth, to command one during shakedown doesn't seem unrealistic. Maybe they finally had a design that ironed out the kinks. Then the Borg show up and he's in command of a ship in the area that works so he joins the fleet. It also takes care of the issue of why none of the other Defiant regulars are on the ship.

It gives Worf a reason to be there besides we need him in the film and hints that Starfleet might be taking this Dominion thing seriously by building more warships escort vessels.

pixelburp

I'd say this is a good example of fans backfilling lazy writing. It was a TNG movie, and for brand recognition Worf had to be there. At least using the Defiant was some acknowledgement of DS9 and that Worf had moved on, while the plot moved too quickly for any excuse to shuffle him out of the plot. The sequels of course lacked even that modicum of sense.

DenMan

I remember reading a piece years ago regarding DS9 and First Contact. The Borg came through the Bajoran wormhole beside DS9 bound for Earth and Sisko ordered Worf to take the Defiant and warn Starfleet. It might have been part of an early draft for the First Contact story. Cool idea though!

Justin Credible Darts

why would the Borg need a wormhole when in a few episodes it was mentioned they would travel via a transwarp conduit. ?

ilovesmybrick

Justin Credible Darts wrote:

why would the Borg need a wormhole when in a few episodes it was mentioned they would travel via a transwarp conduit. ?

I don't think that Borg transwarp was a thing until a few years later in Voyager. In the TNG era we knew they had very fast warp, but I don't think they ever mentioned transwarp.

Kermit.de.frog

Does anyone know what economic model is practiced in Star Trek?

Is it, yeh know, commie?

It's just wages don't seem to be earned and they seem to have everything at the push of a button.

The oddest thing about First Contact for me are the opening titles/music.

AMKC

DenMan wrote: »

I remember reading a piece years ago regarding DS9 and First Contact. The Borg came through the Bajoran wormhole beside DS9 bound for Earth and Sisko ordered Worf to take the Defiant and warn Starfleet. It might have been part of an early draft for the First Contact story. Cool idea though!

It might have been a cool idea but I don't think a Borg Cube would fit in the wormhole it would be torn apart. There was a DS9 episode where DS9 was been pulled towards it and if it had of happened it would have torn apart.

Maybe a Sphere or a small 5 Borg Cube might have fit but certainly not the big ones.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Does anyone know what economic model is practiced in Star Trek?

Is it, yeh know, commie?

It's just wages don't seem to be earned and they seem to have everything at the push of a button.

That's just the crew's we see in TOS and TNG but if you watch Picard it seems to give a different view of it. I think it would be great if someday that greed and the collection of wealth was not a thing and we all lived equally and for the betterment of humankind but as to how well that has yet to be invented.
There is a book called ''Treknomics'' or something like that that tries to explain it but has some humour in it too. I only had a look at it but should have bought it when I had the chance.

nyarlothothep

Deleted User wrote: »

I would have preferred if any drone could have been the "Queen" and the embodiment "We are the Borg" voice, from the communications.
None of this fancy entrance etc just the consciousness speaking through "elevated" drones. Kill one and the next just starts speaking with that voice.

That would have kept it being part of the collective consciousness and not the controller of it.

PS: it also would be as intimidating as fvck; no matter how many you kill, that voice just keeps on coming.

Was just watching the ep 8 or 9 of Picard. Still haven't made up my mind about it, better than STD for sure but have issues with what they've done to certain characters and the dismal, nihilistic direction.

Anyway, the one thing they did manage to do well is their representation of the Borg. When Seven interfaces with the collective and becomes a temporary Borg queen, you see her eyes go to black and some green symbol appear in her eyes, that was cool. But it only came about through plugging into the ship, so that restored the Borg collective idea to an extent, the Borg Queen isn't an individual controlling the collective, she's a master node, running off of an instruction set and can be duplicated much in the same way as the Borg drones, which further abstracts her from being a "person". Rather the collective is just an algorithm taking over the galaxy and that scene restores the idea of the Borg being a collective without any trace of individuality in the queen, she's just another part in the system with a different function. I have to say, watching the Borg ship restore itself was rad, I admired the efficiency and cohesion of it and was thinking a Borg system of society would be a vast improvement over the ones we have globally.

TheValeyard

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Was just watching the ep 8 or 9 of Picard. Still haven't made up my mind about it, better than STD for sure but have issues with what they've done to certain characters and the dismal, nihilistic direction.

Anyway, the one thing they did manage to do well is their representation of the Borg. When Seven interfaces with the collective and becomes a temporary Borg queen, you see her eyes go to black and some green symbol appear in her eyes, that was cool. But it only came about through plugging into the ship, so that restored the Borg collective idea to an extent, the Borg Queen isn't an individual controlling the collective, she's a master node, running off of an instruction set and can be duplicated much in the same way as the Borg drones, which further abstracts her from being a "person". Rather the collective is just an algorithm taking over the galaxy and that scene restores the idea of the Borg being a collective without any trace of individuality in the queen, she's just another part in the system with a different function. I have to say, watching the Borg ship restore itself was rad, I admired the efficiency and cohesion of it and was thinking a Borg system of society would be a vast improvement over the ones we have globally.

I really like this explanation

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

I'd say this is a good example of fans backfilling lazy writing. It was a TNG movie, and for brand recognition Worf had to be there. At least using the Defiant was some acknowledgement of DS9 and that Worf had moved on, while the plot moved too quickly for any excuse to shuffle him out of the plot. The sequels of course lacked even that modicum of sense.

Ah the lazy writing

In First Contact Worf and the Defiant survivors are beamed aboard as the ship is a floating wreck.

In Insurrection, Worf just happens to be in the system and pops in for a hello.

In Nemesis, he is just there.

Evade

nyarlothothep wrote: »

and was thinking a Borg system of society would be a vast improvement over the ones we have globally.

How?

Samuel T. Cogley

@nyarlothothep: Ever read 'A Brave New World' I think you'd like it.

Stark

TheValeyard wrote: »

Ah the lazy writing

In First Contact Worf and the Defiant survivors are beamed aboard as the ship is a floating wreck.

In Insurrection, Worf just happens to be in the system and pops in for a hello.

In Nemesis, he is just there.

To be fair, he had the best excuse for being there in Nemesis in the form of Riker and Troi's wedding. And it was set after DS9 so he could well have been reassigned to the Enterprise at that point.

First Contact was one of those times where warp speed is as fast as the plot requires it. Normally DS9 would be weeks travel from Earth but it seemed the Defiant was able to be there in a matter of hours when the plot required it.

TheValeyard

Stark wrote: »

To be fair, he had the best excuse for being there in Nemesis in the form of Riker and Troi's wedding. And it was set after DS9 so he could well have been reassigned to the Enterprise at that point.

First Contact was one of those times where warp speed is as fast as the plot requires it. Normally DS9 would be weeks travel from Earth but it seemed the Defiant was able to be there in a matter of hours when the plot required it.

Excluding the reboot films, where warp drive seems to have magic speed abilities.

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

Excluding the reboot films, where warp drive seems to have magic speed abilities.

Let's continue to exclude them please...


Such a waste of great casting

pah

Ha I lol'd

Rawr

Stark wrote: »

To be fair, he had the best excuse for being there in Nemesis in the form of Riker and Troi's wedding. And it was set after DS9 so he could well have been reassigned to the Enterprise at that point.

That one had confused me a bit. After DS9 he was supposed to be the Federation Ambassador on Qo'nos. I had kind of assumed that he'd drop his commission since we was now a diplomat. Nemisis sort of forgets much of this, just to have Worf turn up as a Starfleet officer...and suddenly attached to the Enterprise too. But as mentioned, at least it made sense for him to turn up for the wedding of his poker-buddy and ex-girlfriend

Insurrection, for its many crimes has the laziest thread of an excuse for having Worf there. He was on "leave", on the Enterprise....during the Dominion War....
I'd be more annoyed, but there are so many other reasons to be annoyed with that film! :mad:

Stark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BVFW4nugkc

"Say, is this a ship of the Valkyries? Or have you Human women finally done away with your men altogether?"

Going to use this clip every time a poster complains about there being "too many wimmin" on modern Star Trek from this point on.

Justin Credible Darts

this might be worth a watch for certain episodes.

new podcast with paris and kim

http://blog.trekcore.com/2020/04/star-trek-voyager-delta-flyers-podcast-garrett-wang-robert-duncan-mcneill/

odyssey06

Reading a Whisky magazine article about The Black Fox distillery in Canada who have released a 100% triticale whisky - and yes, the article about it did namecheck Star Trek

Kiith

Watch First Contact with Jonathan Frakes

https://www.ign.com/articles/watch-star-trek-first-contact-with-director-jonathan-frakes-wfh-theater

Goodshape

1am Thursday morning

AMKC

Had I have known sooner I might have went to bed for a couple of hours and then done it but not now. Some of us are up all day you know.