General Star Trek thread

Justin Credible Darts

FVP3 wrote: »

For episodic TV it doesn't matter at all. You can watch Voyager in any order. .

True there is a lot of single episodes that could be classed as stand alone, but to say you can watch in any order is nonsense.


for starters there was Seven replacing Kes, and whilst not many arcs there was some 2 parters and episodes that could be classed as a continuation od previous episodes.

AMKC

FVP3 wrote: »

For episodic TV it doesn't matter at all. You can watch Voyager in any order. Maybe DS9 isn't the same, as there is an arc there.

I watched Voyager on Netflix in best episode order, as recommended by some online review, and it was very good for those twenty or so episodes. Then I watched some of the worst Voyager ( "Fair Haven" etc) and that was it for me.

I disagree about being able to watch Voyager in any order. I would say TOS is the best one to watch in any order as it does not really matter and maybe TNG but if you watched the last season first and then he 2nd or 1st season you might struggle as they do all change a bit in TNG. The other three series you can not watch in any order you like. Its best to start at the beginning and finish at the end.

FVP3

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

True there is a lot of single episodes that could be classed as stand alone, but to say you can watch in any order is nonsense.


for starters there was Seven replacing Kes, and whilst not many arcs there was some 2 parters and episodes that could be classed as a continuation od previous episodes.

It's not really hard to work out that Seven replaced Kes, when Seven appeared and Kes didn't. Anyway I knew who they all were before I watched because I had occasionally dipped in. As for two parters, they are obviously signalled.

Did any of the people here who watch in order watch TOS first and in order? the move onto the movies? Then the animated series. Then TNG etc.

Evade

FVP3 wrote: »

Did any of the people here who watch in order watch TOS first and in order? the move onto the movies? Then the animated series. Then TNG etc.

That wasn't really possible when I started watching Star Trek. I can't pin down exactly when or which episode I started watching but I know the best thing about finally getting my own TV when I was 7 was being able to watch the 10pm repeat of TNG on Sky One. It didn't matter that it was the same episode I saw 5 hours earlier.

But when Netflix got all the Star Trek series a few years ago I did do a full rewatch in TOS>TAS>TNG>DS9>VOY>ENT>Movies order

DonegalBay

So due to the virus, I have more time on my hands so have been watching the re-runs of Star Trek on the Horror Channel(I don't have any subscriptions etc). Now whilst I enjoy sci-fi, I am also not hardcore and have only seen a few series, my favourites being Babylon 5 and the updated Battlestar Galactica. I have seen most of the Star Trek movies and a few episodes of Star Trek: TNG when it was first out as my friend was a huge Star Trek fan and if I was in his house when it was on, it was obligatory viewing. I remember some of the Borg episodes were great.

I am half-way through The Original series and for the most part have enjoyed it, some excellent episodes, some ok and some truly awful rubbish, but it is a 50 year old show so I give it some leeway in terms of campness etc.

I am also half-way through season one of TNG and have to say there has been very few memorable episodes, I just find myself drifting away whilst watching because they seem so uninteresting. I find the chemistry between the Original Cew much more enjoyable as well, especially the interactions between McCoy and Spock. I cannot warm to any of the TNG crew, even Picard who just seems like a miserable git, and those jumpsuits...truly awful.

Now, looking at reviews, it seems that TNG does not really improve until Season 2. My question is would I miss anything by skipping the rest of season 1 or is there any important episodes I need to watch. I guess I just prefer shows with an arc over standalone episodes, but even Babylon 5 was not great season 1, but improved tremendously. Any advice appreciated.

Rawr

DonegalBay wrote: »

So due to the virus, I have more time on my hands so have been watching the re-runs of Star Trek on the Horror Channel(I don't have any subscriptions etc). Now whilst I enjoy sci-fi, I am also not hardcore and have only seen a few series, my favourites being Babylon 5 and the updated Battlestar Galactica. I have seen most of the Star Trek movies and a few episodes of Star Trek: TNG when it was first out as my friend was a huge Star Trek fan and if I was in his house when it was on, it was obligatory viewing. I remember some of the Borg episodes were great.

I am half-way through The Original series and for the most part have enjoyed it, some excellent episodes, some ok and some truly awful rubbish, but it is a 50 year old show so I give it some leeway in terms of campness etc.

I am also half-way through season one of TNG and have to say there has been very few memorable episodes, I just find myself drifting away whilst watching because they seem so uninteresting. I find the chemistry between the Original Cew much more enjoyable as well, especially the interactions between McCoy and Spock. I cannot warm to any of the TNG crew, even Picard who just seems like a miserable git, and those jumpsuits...truly awful.

Now, looking at reviews, it seems that TNG does not really improve until Season 2. My question is would I miss anything by skipping the rest of season 1 or is there any important episodes I need to watch. I guess I just prefer shows with an arc over standalone episodes, but even Babylon 5 was not great season 1, but improved tremendously. Any advice appreciated.

TNG Season 1 had some pretty good episodes which are worth a watch. You could safely give a miss to:

Code of Honor: "There will be no vaccine!"
Justice: Planet of the scantly clad models...and Weasley too for a while
Angel One: Riker gets womanized....by women
The Big Goodbye: Starting Patrick Steward as Dick Tracy
Haven: Let's meet Diana's mother!!
When the Bough Breaks: For those who like the work of child-actors.

I've probably missed a few there, but there were a good few Season 1 episodes I remember enjoying. Really steps up a gear in Season 2, and they got the formula down by Season 3.

It really appeared that they were trying to figure out what TNG was supposed to be at this stage. I got a sense of "Original Star Trek....but more high-tech, with families onboard and mental-health officers on the bridge for some reason. ", which then turned into something of it's own thing by Season 2.

_Kaiser_

I'm in the middle of a rewatch of Atlantis but like Trek it really benefits from having a balance of a fairly loose continuity that allows the viewer to dip in and out as needed. DS9 was the same till the last 7/8 episodes. Voyager did it well too. Enterprise I think was on the edge of the new format with the season-long Xindi plot in S3.

The problem with most new shows is you can't just stick on an hour over lunch (as I just did earlier ).. it's all or nothing as they're essentially 10/13 hour movies (and not always very good ones at that - Discovery/Picard)

odyssey06

Rawr wrote: »

TNG Season 1 had some pretty good episodes which are worth a watch. You could safely give a miss to:
Justice: Planet of the scantly clad models...and Weasley too for a while

Yes, but what models!

The Big Goodbye: Starting Patrick Steward as Dick Tracy

I like those old Bogart movies so I enjoyed that one.

Can't quibble with the other entries in your list though.

Oh, and for those re-watching season 2, the season finale Shades of Gray is a skippable "clip show" as it was put together on the cheap after blowing their budget on earlier episodes.
Have a bottle of Irish whiskey ready for "Up the Long Ladder", you'll need it boyo

And I thoroughly recommend these short episode recap \ reviews from Tim Lynch:
https://timlynchreviews.fandom.com/wiki/TNG

DonegalBay

Rawr wrote: »

TNG Season 1 had some pretty good episodes which are worth a watch. You could safely give a miss to:

Code of Honor: "There will be no vaccine!"
Justice: Planet of the scantly clad models...and Weasley too for a while
Angel One: Riker gets womanized....by women
The Big Goodbye: Starting Patrick Steward as Dick Tracy
Haven: Let's meet Diana's mother!!
When the Bough Breaks: For those who like the work of child-actors.

I've probably missed a few there, but there were a good few Season 1 episodes I remember enjoying. Really steps up a gear in Season 2, and they got the formula down by Season 3.

It really appeared that they were trying to figure out what TNG was supposed to be at this stage. I got a sense of "Original Star Trek....but more high-tech, with families onboard and mental-health officers on the bridge for some reason. ", which then turned into something of it's own thing by Season 2.

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I have already seen most of those you listed which might explain why I am struggling with it. Angel One was yesterday which I skipped as it was rated so poorly . Glad to know I didn't miss anything.

Ironically, the Original Season episode was The trouble with tribbles, highly rated, but I thought it one of the poorer offerings, very cheesy but thought the other episodes with the Klingons have been good.

I will see how the whole holodeck thing goes, it seem's like a bit of a cop out to have episodes in other genres, and that is from someone who enjoys old film noir movies.

I might just skip the rest and come back in on season 2. I suppose that is the good thing with a show that has standalone episodes. I just remember from watching a few at my friends house, there being some quite tense and exciting episodes, but that would have been the early 90s which I guess is the later seasons. Might be also a case of rose tinted glasses as I was only a young un then.

Rawr

DonegalBay wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I have already seen most of those you listed which might explain why I am struggling with it. Angel One was yesterday which I skipped as it was rated so poorly . Glad to know I didn't miss anything.

Ironically, the Original Season episode was The trouble with tribbles, highly rated, but I thought it one of the poorer offerings, very cheesy but thought the other episodes with the Klingons have been good.

I will see how the whole holodeck thing goes, it seem's like a bit of a cop out to have episodes in other genres, and that is from someone who enjoys old film noir movies.

I might just skip the rest and come back in on season 2. I suppose that is the good thing with a show that has standalone episodes. I just remember from watching a few at my friends house, there being some quite tense and exciting episodes, but that would have been the early 90s which I guess is the later seasons. Might be also a case of rose tinted glasses as I was only a young un then.

The later stuff in Season 1 is interesting, just get over the halfway hump. You’ll also end up missing an important crew-development moment that will confuse later if you don’t watch it.

JayRoc

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes, but what models!



I like those old Bogart movies so I enjoyed that one.

Can't quibble with the other entries in your list though.

Oh, and for those re-watching season 2, the season finale Shades of Gray is a skippable "clip show" as it was put together on the cheap after blowing their budget on earlier episodes.
Have a bottle of Irish whiskey ready for "Up the Long Ladder", you'll need it boyo

And I thoroughly recommend these short episode recap \ reviews from Tim Lynch:
https://timlynchreviews.fandom.com/wiki/TNG

I love Up The Long Ladder. It's probably the TNG season 2 episode I've watched the most!

Evade

JayRoc wrote: »

I love Up The Long Ladder. It's probably the TNG season 2 episode I've watched the most!

I've never gotten the hate for it.

odyssey06

JayRoc wrote: »

I love Up The Long Ladder. It's probably the TNG season 2 episode I've watched the most!

Sober?
Or you have a thing for fiery redheads?

I think I was bemused on first viewing... but not sure how well my older self will react to that level of oirishness.

Justin Credible Darts

odyssey06 wrote: »

Sober?
Or you have a thing for fiery redheads?

I think I was bemused on first viewing... but not sure how well my older self will react to that level of oirishness.

An atrocious episode for stereotypes.
Almost as bad as the episode code of Honour.

Rawr

odyssey06 wrote: »

Sober?
Or you have a thing for fiery redheads?

I think I was bemused on first viewing... but not sure how well my older self will react to that level of oirishness.

It is the one episode that had me wondering for years how the ship "cleaned itself".

It wasn't until Discovery that we get a possible explanation, when they sort of showed those little worker drones cleaning up .

odyssey06

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

An atrocious episode for stereotypes.
Almost as bad as the episode code of Honour.

"Seriously?" was on a loop in my head for those eps.

They did give us Miles OBrien... Dub in space though.

pixelburp

Let's not mince words here, Up the Long Ladder was bloody racist, easily on a par with the spear chucking insensitivities of Code of Honour. "Times were different" yada yada but it's interesting how the latter gets a universal acknowledgment of jaw dropping prejudice, while it's all fun and games when it's drunken, thicko Irish on screen. Never quite squared that one. Thankfully you don't see the Begorrah style that much nowadays mind you...

JayRoc

pixelburp wrote: »

Let's not mince words here, Up the Long Ladder was bloody racist, easily on a par with the spear chucking insensitivities of Code of Honour. "Times were different" yada yada but it's interesting how the latter gets a universal acknowledgment of jaw dropping prejudice, while it's all fun and games when it's drunken, thicko Irish on screen. Never quite squared that one. Thankfully you don't see the Begorrah style that much nowadays mind you...

I'm not sure I'd put some harmless pisstaking on a par with...you know...actual racism. It was a hilariously bad episode which I got, and get, a big kick out of.

Darby O'Gill in space, for christ's sake...what's not to like

JayRoc

odyssey06 wrote: »

Sober?
Or you have a thing for fiery redheads?
.

Six of one...

donspeekinglesh

odyssey06 wrote: »

They did give us Miles OBrien... Dub in space though.

While Meaney is a Dub, O'Brien was from Killarney apparently.

bnt

bnt wrote: »

Veteran character actor Richard Herd has died at 87. He seemed to be comfortable in both movies and TV e.g. in 1980 he played a Captain in an episode of M*A*S*H and a General in Private Benjamin. In recent years he worked mostly in TV, including Seinfeld and Star Trek: Voyager, but was in Get Out, The Oath and The Mule over the last few years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQbj_4tr-Us

RIP Admiral Paris

JayRoc

JayRoc wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd put some harmless pisstaking on a par with...you know...actual racism. It was a hilariously bad episode which I got, and get, a big kick out of.

Darby O'Gill in space, for christ's sake...what's not to like

How is it not racism?

368100

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How is it not racism?

Definition of racism:

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.


Definition of Race:

each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
"people of all races, colours, and creeds



Irish are hardly a different race from Americans when half of them claim to have Irish blood in them!

Inaccurate and uneducated stereotyping yes...but not racism.

I don't understand all the offence, it was only a TV show from the 90s....meant no harm and we hardly suffered from anything TO do with it. All a bit of fun.

pixelburp

I'm not offended, and I'm well aware of the dictionary, but the "thick Oirish drunks" is pervasive enough that I didn't find Up the Long Ladder's particularly cute or harmless - especially in a show supposedly set in some enlightened utopia such as Star Trek's. It was obviously meant to be a nod towards the days of TOS, when "Planet of the Hats" trope was every second episode. If that's enough for some, fine. But I don't forgive a racist stereotype because it was 20 years ago. A stupid idea will always remain a stupid idea.

It's debatable the Irish suffered prejudice to the same extent as the indentured slaves from Africa, and not even remotely suitable to this thread - not even in historical circles is there agreement - but you'd want to be fairly naive to think the Oirish stereotypes were meant to be cute little pokings of fun and nothing else. Between "No blacks, No Irish" signs or the likes of Punch magazine drawing us as muck savages and apes, we were rarely considered equals, especially by our nearest neighbours.

I found "Up the Long Ladder" used racist stereotype. Shrug. If some of you can laugh at it as harmless, fair enough Maybe nowadays it is, now that we've grown up ourselves and are more confident in our own skin. We've come a long way. But I don't pretend that the Oirish stereotype doesn't have sinister, demeaning origins historically designed to "other" the (catholic) Irish.

Evade

Thick Irish drunks was more true than a lot of people would care to admit. I used to work a bit in a country pub about 15 years ago and a some of the patrons weren't very far removed from the Brionglóidí.

Rawr

Evade wrote: »

Thick Irish drunks was more true than a lot of people would care to admit. I used to work a bit in a country pub about 15 years ago and a some of the patrons weren't very far removed from the Brionglóidí.

There is this particular knack of US television in the 80's and 90's to depict Ireland and the Irish as backward superstitious drunkards who exist mostly in this bizarre 19th Century mode. Mrs. Rawr once showed me an episode of Murder She Wrote just to see how i'd react. I'm sure she enjoyed my animated disbelief while Jessica arrived in at rural castle (by steam train, naturally) to declare that a murder victim had met an unlucky fate...or as she put it "The Luck of the Irish"...because you know...that's what you say in those situations.

Interestingly I didn't mind Up the Long Ladder as much. Possibly because they imply that "Pre-United Earth" Ireland was involved in deep space exploration, which is cool. Also we have O'Brien onboard to underline that 24th Century Ireland is very much in the loop too.

It's not until Fairhaven when they step over the line and just depict the Irish as clownish cartoon characters designed to entertain the Voyager crew with their twee antics while begging Paris for drinking money. Fair Haven was pretty bad, but the "Spirit Folk" sequel episode was by far the worst Trek episode I have ever made myself endure...and yes that does mean that I liked Shades of Grey more than that one, hell even Sub-Rosa was better and that one was terrible.

Somewhat hopeful that we'll one day get to see 24th Century Ireland or Dublin. Perhaps Picard Season 2? (Probably not...but not impossible)

Stark

For all the criticism of Fair Haven, it did give us this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNCybqmKugA

Love in the comments section where they refer to him as the "Emergency Sexual Relief Hologram"

Stark

Stark wrote: »

For all the criticism of Fair Haven, it did give us this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNCybqmKugA

Love in the comments section where they refer to him as the "Emergency Sexual Relief Hologram"

Her "specifications"??

Was the height the only thing she increased or had party boy Paris already sorted other areas??

pixelburp

I feel sorry for the ship's AI here TBH; I control every single functioning system on this ship keeping you all alive and fed; I'm not your pimp damnit. Just f*ck the hologram and be done with it. The cleanup bots will be sent later.

Stark

Deleted User wrote: »

Her "specifications"??

Was the height the only thing she increased or had party boy Paris already sorted other areas??

Well it was a family show. Increasing "other" specifications and having holographic emitters installed in her sleeping quarters could be left to viewer's imagination.