General Star Trek thread

Rawr

Evade wrote: »

And it could have given them the chance to make a certain ensign less bland if for some reason the Year of Hell version got sent to the reset timeline.

I've been going though a good bit of Voyager lately and I get the feeling that whenever they had a situation where they could "reset reality because of <insert reason here>" you ended up with some really hard-hitting episodes.

Watched "Destination: Oblivion" a short while back and they really did an excellent job of having the crew slowly die off and in the end you had an Acting Captain Kim and Seven as Chief Engineer / First Officer, trying to hold onto life for a few minutes more.

Year of hell was also excellent for this same reason. The ship was in bits, the crew were dying off or were scarred by their ordeal, and having a blind Tuvok just added to the sense of desperation they were living under. Every torpedo counted, and even the smallest Kremin ship was a chilling threat to the crippled Voyager. The whole 2-parter was gold.

For the sake of ease of writing, and the costs of the sets, I can get why Berman wanted to make Voyager a TNG clone. But I still believe that they could have pulled it off. There was plenty of scope to still inject some levity and hope into a show where Voyager was always struggling, and I feel that would have endeared us to most that crew, who would then be made up of Underdogs who were trying their best to keep going. In that situation you could have also made better use of the whole Maquis thing. The Maquis were a group of professional Underdogs after-all, but alas which they sort of just dropped all of that by the time we were done with Season 1.

It's just a pity that by the time we get to Borg Space, the replicator rations are forgotten about, the Photons are unlimited, and the supplies to build new shuttlecraft are plentiful. The only reminders of the Maquis are essentially the provisional rank pins they wear and the very odd episode with a Maquis leaning. Finally, any major damage to the ship is temporary (with the exception of the Borg mortification after Scorpion...for one episode).

Voyager was the first time in Star Trek where they rendered the ship model entirely in CGI. If they had wanted to, they could have modeled progressive damage / patching on the ship over time. But maybe that was too much, too far for them?

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

For the sake of ease of writing, and the costs of the sets, I can get why Berman wanted to make Voyager a TNG clone.?

I don't think cost really factored in to it much. There are a good few episodes the ship is heavily damaged and the sets are redressed appropriately.

Scorpion and Year of Hell show that the CGI modellers were up to the task of modifying the exterior of the ship too, and no change there is permanent.

TNG had some pretty odd callbacks. In season four Future Imperfect's plot relies on continuity from 11001001 in season one.

pixelburp

The article suggests Berman had some aversion to serialised storytelling due to his experiences with Ds9 - not sure what specifically he hated but feels rather amusing, given how "hated" Berman remains. Apt he would have taken the wrong lessons from what became Trek's biggest Dark Horse. Fair to suggest latterday Trek was held back by producers who stayed on far longer than they should have. Imagine if Moore or Fuller had have taken the reigns full time...

Actually, scratch Fuller; a good ideas man with a genuine creative mindset, but can't seem to produce a show without it becoming a total disaster.

Bobtheman

pixelburp wrote: »

The article suggests Berman had some aversion to serialised storytelling due to his experiences with Ds9 - not sure what specifically he hated but feels rather amusing, given how "hated" Berman remains. Apt he would have taken the wrong lessons from what became Trek's biggest Dark Horse. Fair to suggest latterday Trek was held back by producers who stayed on far longer than they should have. Imagine if Moore or Fuller had have taken the reigns full time...

Actually, scratch Fuller; a good ideas man with a genuine creative mindset, but can't seem to produce a show without it becoming a total disaster.

I think its a bit unfair to him. I don't think Ds9 was acknowledged as a classic until it was over and then its image was improved by the failure of both Voyager and Enterprise on a critical level.
Voyager had structural flaws from the start-half the characters were terribly boring or badly acted-Chakotay,Harry,Nelix,Kes, were terrible. The whole Maquis vs Starfleet could have been more developed.
They had some good episodes and like Star Trek the next generation-its nice to watch a series where you don't also have not to know what went before.

pixelburp

I wouldn't blame him for lacking prescience specifically, but IMO he & Braga stayed around far too long, and allowed the brand become incredibly tired. Stick around too long and creative decisions become rote, safer and more guarded than - say - a replacement producer with some new ideas and directions to steer properties. Not without reason IMO that Enterprise's upswing in quality coincided with the arrival of Manny Coto as a new producer. Who kinda skewed Ent towards more serialised arcs. Fresh blood, a new perspective on where to take a show already floundering because its existing producers had checked out years ago.

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

I wouldn't blame him for lacking prescience specifically, but IMO he & Braga stayed around far too long, and allowed the brand become incredibly tired. Stick around too long and creative decisions become rote, safer and more guarded than - say - a replacement producer with some new ideas and directions to steer properties. Not without reason IMO that Enterprise's upswing in quality coincided with the arrival of Manny Coto as a new producer. Who kinda skewed Ent towards more serialised arcs. Fresh blood, a new perspective on where to take a show already floundering because its existing producers had checked out years ago.

+1 I felt this too. That Berman & Co. weren't necessarily bad at doing Trek. It was just in the last couple of years they appeared to have run out of stream and to be taking their audience for granted. I especially felt this towards the end of Voyager's run and into Enterprise.

I remember becoming particularly anti-Berman at the time, forgetting that those same people had kept the francise going strong after Roddenberry's death.

It's very similar to how I felt about Moffet-era Doctor Who. I felt he did excellent work in his early years, and then later on he either became over confident or just took the audience for granted resulting in the quality of the show nose-diving. Again, I ended up being Anti-Moffet, while again forgetting the good work he had done earlier.

I feel this underlines the idea of keeping your showrunners fresh and possibily planning hand-overs while your showrunner is still going strong, and sort of do in waves....especially in long-running scifi franchises.

Justin Credible Darts

I dont think they ran out of steam for the last series of Enterprise, in fact it was their best season and the show got really good, especially with characters like shran, played by the great jeffrey coombs.
There was so much more they could have done with the coalition of planets that led to the federation.

odyssey06

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

There was so much more they could have done with the coalition of planets that led to the federation.

Can't understand why the whole series wasn't focused on that, from the outset...

pixelburp

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I dont think they ran out of steam for the last series of Enterprise, in fact it was their best season and the show got really good, especially with characters like shran, played by the great jeffrey coombs.
There was so much more they could have done with the coalition of planets that led to the federation.

Well that's the point I was making. Yes, last season soared... ... precisely because Manny Coto came in and refreshed the series with some new energy and ideas as producer. Berman had checked out at that stage, even if he didn't know or feel it himself. Happens to every producing team that stays on those 1, 2 seasons (or shows!) too long... Moffat in Who (or Jonathan Nathan Turner for the older fans) being another good example.

Bobtheman

Interesting side fact. Just watching the outrageous okano. STNG
Season 2. The character who plays the freighter captain was in the running to play Riker.
Billy Cambell.

odyssey06

Bobtheman wrote: »

Interesting side fact. Just watching the outrageous okano
Season 2. The character who plays the freighter captainwaas in the running to play Riker.
Billy Cambell.

Hard to believe he is now a brooding and troubled detective in Cardinal!

There were a few instances of actors who auditioned for TNG roles coming back in Trek:
Eric Menyuk (The Traveller) auditioned for the role of Data.
Rosalind Chao (Keiko) for the role of Tasha.
Tim Russ (Tuvok) for the role of Geordi.

Evade

Jeffrey Combs auditioned for Riker.

Stark

Tim Russ had guest appearances on TNG and DS9. (As an aside, I went and googled him and the pictures that came up make me think it's a good thing they gave him a part where he never smiled).

Evade

Russ is in Generations as a bridge officer ion the Enterprise B too.

pixelburp

Evade wrote: »

Jeffrey Combs auditioned for Riker.

I just presume Combs auditioned for every Trek role, ever.

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

I just presume Combs auditioned for every Trek role, ever.

Hmm

Could work. A Combs one man Star Trek show.

odyssey06

And this is Belgian actor Patrick Bauchau, who was one of the contenders for the role of Picard.

Best known for his role as Scarpine in the 1985 James Bond movie, A View to a Kill; Sydney (Jarod's mentor) in the TV series The Pretender; and Doctor Rowan Chase, Doctor Robert Chase's estranged father in the TV series, House.

Justin Credible Darts

TheValeyard wrote: »

Hmm

Could work. A Combs one man Star Trek show.

he once played 2 different roles , weyoun and brunt in the same episode

Also Peter Capaldi was also in the running for sisko at one point....strange but true

368100

Bobtheman wrote: »

Interesting side fact. Just watching the outrageous okano. STNG
Season 2. The character who plays the freighter captain was in the running to play Riker.
Billy Cambell.

He was an attractive man :-)

368100

Bobtheman wrote: »

Interesting side fact. Just watching the outrageous okano. STNG
Season 2. The character who plays the freighter captain was in the running to play Riker.
Billy Cambell.

He was an attractive man :-)

DonegalBay

So season 2 of TOS and season 1 of TNG generation finished on the Horror channel a few days ago.

My thoughts, like season 1 of the Original series, season 2 was mixed, some excellent episodes and some real clunkers. My favourite was probably Journey to Babel(the one with Spock's parents). I thought the one with the tribbles was awful, but seems to be one of the more memorable episodes in my head. Is there ever an episode in which Spock does not say the work fascinating at least once? though Spock is probably my favourite character and his interactions with McCoy are fantastic. Also the almost ever present hottie with the hots for Kirk is a little bit grating after a while. Unfortunately season 3 seems to be the weakest of the 3 so a little downhearted going forward.


TNG, whilst it did improve a little, was still tough going. None of the characters have grown on me as yet and thankfully they killed Security Officer Yar off as I liked her least, could have taken a few more with her. Best episode was second to last one even if it was a bit rushed in the end and this is a theme in many episodes of both TOS and TNG, some great build up of tensions and excitement, and then all resolved and tied up with a bow within a minute at the end. I understand this is the limitation of standalone episodes, but still frustrating.

Maybe it is because I was more familiar with the crew of the Original from the Star Trek movies, but they are just a much more likeable bunch than TNG crew.

Thargor

Impressive:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-somerset-53027882/star-trek-next-generation-fan-rebuilds-bridge-set

TheValeyard

Thargor wrote: »

Impressive:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-somerset-53027882/star-trek-next-generation-fan-rebuilds-bridge-set

Oooh that's impressive

Justin Credible Darts

one of my latest pics....a young picard

http://www.imagebam.com/image/2265441346787107

more here

https://gazomg-trek-art.blogspot.com/

Inviere

Thargor wrote: »

Impressive:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-somerset-53027882/star-trek-next-generation-fan-rebuilds-bridge-set

That's unreal, everything looks perfect!

FFVII

Inviere wrote: »

That's unreal, everything looks perfect!

Aaah, incredible waste of time really.:(

Inviere

FFVII wrote: »

Aaah, incredible waste of time really.:(

Some might say sinking your wages down at the bar every weekend is a waste of time too. It depends on what you value...that recreation of a widely loved bridge set, far from a waste imo.

Evade

It's almost as if there's some global event on which meant he had a lot of free time.

Slydice

I liked this quote

https://twitter.com/actordougjones/status/1273338073338613764