General Star Trek thread

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

So maybe it was but then the only people who have seen or know that are gamers who have played or watched someone else play it. Myself I bought the first game but never really got that far in it so yes I think its overrated and know very little about it or its plots.

Mass Effect maybe one of the greatest ever Sci fi games. The story and side missions are absolutely fantastic.

TheValeyard

Evade wrote: »

It'd probably be a lot older. I though STD3 was set in 29XX but it's 31XX so Miranda's would be about 900 years old by then.

Would ya want to be on a Miranda class ship though? They look nice but oh dear God they went splat a lot of the time during the Dominion war.

Stark

At least one got destroyed during Wolf 359 as well.

Evade

A little known fact of the overall strategy of the Dominion war was using unarmed Mirandas with skeleton crews to divert fire from more important fleet assets.*

Wolf 359 has the last seen Constitution class too.

*joke

AMKC

Evade wrote: »

It'd probably be a lot older. I though STD3 was set in 29XX but it's 31XX so Miranda's would be about 900 years old by then.

I read it wrong. My mistake. Thought he was talking about having some in Picard which they should have had. In fact the ship Picards crew was on should have been one. That would have made it a lot more interesting. There is an interesting idea if someone has the skill to do that on You Tube put a Miranda in instead of the crappy ship they had in it for the outside shots anyway.

Rawr

TheValeyard wrote: »

Would ya want to be on a Miranda class ship though? They look nice but oh dear God they went splat a lot of the time during the Dominion war.

It always felt kind of desperate for Starfleet to keep throwing a 100-year old design towards the most dangerous battle fleets the Federation had ever faced. Miranda was a good fighter for her time, but hadn't hope against the Jem Hadar.

However, they did make it apparent that Starfleet *was* desperate, and would probably throw anything with a working warp-core into the fight.

Rawr

Evade wrote: »

I'd forgive STD season 3 for a lot if there was a 500 year old beat up Miranda still around.

Maybe it turns out that the Federation had been destroyed by a fleet of Zombie Mirandas, who have attained sentience and are now out for revenge for years of mistreatment by Starfleet

TheValeyard

Rawr wrote: »

It always felt kind of desperate for Starfleet to keep throwing a 100-year old design towards the most dangerous battle fleets the Federation had ever faced. Miranda was a good fighter for her time, but hadn't hope against the Jem Hadar.

However, they did make it apparent that Starfleet *was* desperate, and would probably throw anything with a working warp-core into the fight.

True. Think the Federation was on the verge of collapse and defeat a number of times during the war. Threw every ship they had into battle.

Evade

Being over 100 years old isn't an indication of it being obsolete. In the real world both the M1911 pistol and M2 Browning heavy machine gun are over 100 years old. If you want a more complex example, the F-16 and A-10 designs are pushing 50, the Enterprise (aircraft carrier) made it to 50 years old and all Nimitz class aircraft carriers should still be in service by their 50th birthdays too.

Rawr

Evade wrote: »

Being over 100 years old isn't an indication of it being obsolete. In the real world both the M1911 pistol and M2 Browning heavy machine gun are over 100 years old. If you want a more complex example, the F-16 and A-10 designs are pushing 50, the Enterprise (aircraft carrier) made it to 50 years old and all Nimitz class aircraft carriers should still be in service by their 50th birthdays too.

I like to think that the Miranda was probably very modular in design and could easily have parts upgraded and swapped out.

A good example of this idea is the torpedo pod over the nacelles which appears to be inter-changeable. The Saratoga and the Boseman had a different config to the usual Miranda, usually removing the pod.





I guess if they stayed on top of upgrades, then the interior systems wouldn't be too far off modern specs by the time we got to the TNG era.

ilovesmybrick

We saw that with the Lakota in DS9, and the Excelsior class would have been coming on stream only slightly later than the Miranda class. And with those upgrades the Lakota was able to fight the Defiant to a standstill.

Evade

Those large shuttlebays almost the height of the saucer probabaly make changing large equipment much easier than on some other layouts.

AMKC

Have you ever wondered in BoBWs how much damage the Enterprise would have done to the Borg Cube if it had of went at warp into it. I myself think at most only 50 or 60 per cent of the Cube would have been destroyed but it would have regenerated and rebuilt unless other ships came to finish it off.
Also when Data and Worf are on the Cube retrieving Picard the Borg seem slow to adapt there unlike every other time they were attacked where the second drone would have a shield.

Stark

They mentioned that Data and Worf had their phasers set to rotate frequencies when they boarded the Cube that time.

Actually rewatched it again. They didn't specifically mention it on the second trip but they mentioned it on the first attempt to retrieve Picard. In the first trip I counted they got about 8 phaser shots between them before the drones adapted, on the 2nd trip , 4 shots.

Evade

I don't think they've ever had a warp speed ram into a subwarp ship in Star Trek so it probably doesn't work. Jem'Hadar fighters do it subwarp and the Defiant was subwarp when Worf ordered ramming speed in First Contact.


If it did work doing it before they rescued Picard would have done more damage than after because the Enterprise used up some antimatter as a screen for the rescue shuttle.

pixelburp

Maybe not ramming, but the warp drive does so much damage when knackered it could be a huge weapon to intentionally fire a destabilised warp core at an enemy. Maybe it's a war crime in this universe

Evade

An exploding warp core is just a really big photon torpedo.

Rawr

AMKC wrote: »

Have you ever wondered in BoBWs how much damage the Enterprise would have done to the Borg Cube if it had of went at warp into it. I myself think at most only 50 or 60 per cent of the Cube would have been destroyed but it would have regenerated and rebuilt unless other ships came to finish it off.
Also when Data and Worf are on the Cube retrieving Picard the Borg seem slow to adapt there unlike every other time they were attacked where the second drone would have a shield.

I think it was once mentioned that a Cube with 80% damage could probably still operate. However, even an explosion that took out only half a cube would likely require that cube to halt an attack on Earth in order to regenerate. It would have probably bought time for other starships to turn up.

Seeing the damage that an exploding Galaxy Class could do to a cube, Starfleet might have flung any nearby starship into a similar attach to finish it off, hopefully before it could adapt to that tactic.

The Borg Queen was on-board, so assuming she wasn't as thick at that time as she would later become when we meet her in First Contact and then Voyager, she might have directed surviving drones down to population centers on Earth and begin assimilation. If it had turned into a ground war on Earth with the Borg, it would be Game Over regardless of the Cube's condition.

...that's of course assuming she didn't feck off during the explosion...or pissed away her time trying to turn Data into her boyfriend...or let a random human hang out with her, because they are "unique"...and then get surprised when said human turns on her....so, it's all assuming she isn't her usual rocket-scientist self....then they'd win.

IvySlayer

Don't know about one ship, what about the huge starbase orbiting Earth?

Rawr

IvySlayer wrote: »

Don't know about one ship, what about the huge starbase orbiting Earth?

That might do the trick. Can't imagine it being fast though :P

Evade

The Borg must have always attacked Earth from the opposite side to Spacedock because it isn't seen in either attack. That's definitely it and not that the writers forgot about it.

AllForIt

Evade wrote: »

The Borg must have always attacked Earth from the opposite side to Spacedock because it isn't seen in either attack. That's definitely it and not that the writers forgot about it.

It depends on the vantage point. They could have attacked at a distance, where the spacedock would look tiny if even visible at all.

Rawr

Just finishing my binge watch of Voyager the other day. It was usually great background stuff to listen to while I did housework.

I noticed a while back, and even mentioned here, that I think I gave Voyager too much of a hard time back in the day. Seasons 5 and 6 were really solid Trek, and a lot of the older stuff was pretty good too.

I watched nearly every single episode, skipping only a handful episodes (Fairhaven...:mad:)....until I reached Season 7. It had some pretty good two-parters in there, but I couldn't find myself watching most of the season. I ended up skipping almost everything except for the 2-parters. I'm starting to wonder if this is why I had such a lingering negative impression of Voyager. Could it be down to a very weak Season 7? I'm starting to think that if the show finished in Season 6, would I have fonder memories.

I've ranted about Endgame before, but 2 things came up again on this rewatch.
-Why the hell did the Borg Queen just let Voyager go when she had 50 cubes available in that nebula to go and get them? We know that Federation starships can't outrun a Cube. She could have easily gotten Voyager assimilated without exposing that trans-warp hub. Just chase them down and get them.
"I'll keep an eye on them..." FFS, and then patching that plot-hole by having her claim that she's doing Seven a favor by not attacking Voyager? If she liked Seven so much then she should just assimilate the ship, she's tried this before...

Also...that very ending was probably the most depressing anti-climax I've seen in a Trek show (until possibly ENT's ending). We spent 7 years with them getting home...and all we get are a handful of seconds of Voyager approaching Earth with some ships joining her. They showed us a bit of a home-coming in the alternate future, but it feels like they should have done something here too. Have Voyager land on Earth, near Starfleet Command or something. The ending we got just felt very muted.

...also...Harry's speech is one the cheesiest things I've seen on that show.

...*Also*....what happened when Neelix tried to call Seven the following day to play more Space Blockbusters? Would he still be able to call the Alpha Quadrant on that system? He probably thinks they're all dead now...

So yea....Voyager deserved better from this Trekkie, it's just a pity they couldn't stick the landing.

Stark

I had the same experience with Voyager. A lot of good stuff in seasons 4, 5 and 6. (A few good episodes before that too "Eye of the needle", "Future's end", "Unity" and the like). Lost interest in Season 7 though and only came back to it when I knew Season 7 was going to be the last and I wanted the emotional payoff of seeing them get home.

Endgame: So much wrong. It's like they hired a bunch of hack writers specially for that episode. First off, the time travel plot was a total rehash of the time travel plot from "Timeless". I didn't like that after 7 years, it wasn't the crew's own hard work and ingenuity that got them home, it was "divine intervention" from future Admiral Janeway. I would almost have preferred if Q had simply materialised on the bridge, announced "okay everyone you've been here long enough", clicked his fingers and they were back on Earth. If any third party was going to swoop in and save the day for them, it should have been Barclay imo. At least he had been working with them enough to become an "honorary member of crew".

The Borg thing was a total mess, though Voyager had made a mess the Borg in general in all their post-Scorpion appearances. They became far too powerful for it to be credible that they haven't assimilated the entire galaxy so to explain that away they have to introduce a Queen with human flaws and vanities who keeps ****ing things up. Like they had a transwarp conduit that opened directly outside Earth and 50+ cubes on the other side but yet humans were "too resourceful" for the Borg to assimilate?

And then of course not showing Voyager actually arrive on Earth. At that point, there should have been no issues with 10 minutes of pure saccharine emotional cheese imo, after 7 years they earned that. Have the real Voyager (not alternate future Voyager) do flyby of Earth with people cheering. Show emotional reunions with crew members and their families.

Yeah Viyager had great stand alone episodes but the entire premise, of the show, was heavily weighted to serial long format story telling.

It adapted in latter seasons but damage was done in opening season setting the scene of conflict free reset button

IvySlayer

Does the fact that Admiral Janeway could have saved the crew at any time kind of ruin the whole thing?

What's the point of doing flash forward scenes if its totally irrelevant rather than seeing what the crew actually did when they reached Earth.

She chose Seven ahead of other members like Carey who had 2 kids.

At least its not Troi and Riker in a holodeck program!

Evade

I assumed she picked the time she did because of how close Voyager was to the Transwarp Hub.

AMKC

IvySlayer wrote: »

Does the fact that Admiral Janeway could have saved the crew at any time kind of ruin the whole thing?

What's the point of doing flash forward scenes if its totally irrelevant rather than seeing what the crew actually did when they reached Earth.

She chose Seven ahead of other members like Carey who had 2 kids.

At least its not Troi and Riker in a holodeck program!

Because the people she really cared about would effected if she did not change the timeline then and changed it at another point it might have had a bigger effect on the Delta Quadrent as well as they had something big but which e fact people would giving out and also it would not have made for a great ending maybe.
With the Borg they had a big enemy if a little over used but I am sure they thought a this will be cool.

TheValeyard

There is always the rumour that the origin of the Borg may begin in humanities future. So the Borg only send the odd cube to force humanity to upskill and get to a certain technological level before their origin story can begin. Anything else could destroy their own time line.

Evade

So the Borg are Skynet?