General Star Trek thread

GreenWolfe

I posted this before, but Picard singing with his crew is just so.....disturbing. And ironically, it turns out Heart of Oak is the official march of the Royal Navy. Absolutely fantastic episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Vadzjac6g

Al Capwned

Just watching DS9:Time's Orphan here, and I've re-watched O'Brien saying 'AAHH BOLLOX' about ten times.
Funny as hell every time.....

Please Kill Me

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I posted this before, but Picard singing with his crew is just so.....disturbing.

Aye. Similarly singing A British Tar with Worf in Star Trek Insurrection....it was just...woeful!

Myrddin

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Aye. Similarly singing A British Tar with Worf in Star Trek Insurrection....it was just...woeful!

I detest that bit in Nemesis. At least in TNG, the notion of Picard singing was used to show how imperfect Picards duplicate was, thereby justifying the crews suspicions.

In Nemesis, it actually was Picard singing. Awful awful stuff, that film should have never left the paper it was written on.

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

I detest that bit in Nemesis. At least in TNG, the notion of Picard singing was used to show how imperfect Picards duplicate was, thereby justifying the crews suspicions.

In Nemesis, it actually was Picard singing. Awful awful stuff, that film should have never left the paper it was written on.

Picard and Worf sang in Insurrection.. no?

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

Picard and Worf sang in Insurrection.. no?

Edit - your correct sorry, when giving out about Trek I automatically go to Nemesis

But Insurrection wasn't far behind Nemesis in my books. Riker flying the ship with a joystick? Eugh, TNG ended with All Good Things

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

Edit - your correct sorry, when giving out about Trek I automatically go to Nemesis

But Insurrection wasn't far behind Nemesis in my books. Riker flying the ship with a joystick? Eugh, TNG ended with All Good Things

Insurection was a good two part episode but bad film

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

Insurection was a good two part episode but bad film

Agreed, & even at that there were far better two parters. Redemption, Unification & BoBW for example. Times Arrow I didn't like that much, but anyway...

Yep I thought as a film, it was fairly crap. Following on from FC was always gonna be a tough one, but Insurrection wasted what could have been so much better

Please Kill Me

Agreed. First Contact was really good I thought. As two-parters go, a couple of my favourites (even if it's Voyager) was Scorpion and Year of Hell.

Kirby

You lot are way too critical. None of the tng movies are perfect, but there is definitely things to like about all of them, even the much maligned Nemesis.

People bitched about Enterprise and there hasn't been a series since. Same thing happened with Stargate Universe. Fans bitch and then there is no more show. It's fine and welcome to criticise but to say something is "terrible" or "the worst thing ever!!111" is counter productive.

Frankly, there is a lack of Sci-fi available at the moment. Sub standard trek is better than no trek at all.

Beefy78

I quite enjoyed Nemesis in the cinema. It's obviously a flawed movie with bits that I don't like from a character point of view but I've seen far worse films.

I'm coming to the end of my first DS9 watch-through in many years. I'm about half way through season seven at the minute. I've watched each show from S3 to S6 many times but there's several in S7 I probably haven't seen since they first came out. I was watching that season's 'Alternate Universe' one on Saturday 'The Emperor's New Cloak'. Jesus Christ, did they milk that concept? Each one after the first one just seemed to be an excuse to give the main cast the chance to let their hair down for a week.

That whole story arc deserves several pages of the 'That just doesn't make sense!' thread dedicated to it.

kevin james murray

who is species 8247

Myrddin

Kirby wrote: »

You lot are way too critical. None of the tng movies are perfect, but there is definitely things to like about all of them, even the much maligned Nemesis.

People bitched about Enterprise and there hasn't been a series since. Same thing happened with Stargate Universe. Fans bitch and then there is no more show. It's fine and welcome to criticise but to say something is "terrible" or "the worst thing ever!!111" is counter productive.

Frankly, there is a lack of Sci-fi available at the moment. Sub standard trek is better than no trek at all.

I'd argue there is no Trek today not because of moaning/whining by the fans, but the poor direction they took with movies, coupled with what they did with Enterprise.

I like Enterprise, actually I really liked it, with is contrary to the majority of fans opinions. But I, and I think many others would think, it's fair to say the TNG movies were a terrible showing & such oppurtunity wasted {FC aside}.

Generations -poor.
Insurrection - poor
Nemesis - beyond poor.

Yes there are little bits about each which are fun/nice to see, but as movies, they are terrible. Had we have had three of four fantastic movies...maybe things would e different today & Trek would still be alive

{I don't consider the new movie canon or anything near it, its a generic action movie that would work with any name tagged onto it}

downwithpeace

kevin james murray wrote: »

who is species 8247

Borg killers from another part of space, don't pop up in Voyager to make the big bad Borg fit the little lost ship storyline, they used 8472 instead

downwithpeace

Kirby wrote: »

You lot are way too critical. None of the tng movies are perfect, but there is definitely things to like about all of them, even the much maligned Nemesis.

People bitched about Enterprise and there hasn't been a series since. Same thing happened with Stargate Universe. Fans bitch and then there is no more show. It's fine and welcome to criticise but to say something is "terrible" or "the worst thing ever!!111" is counter productive.

Frankly, there is a lack of Sci-fi available at the moment. Sub standard trek is better than no trek at all.

I have no issue with the movies but I would class them all as sub-par episodes at best, less said about Nemesis the better.

Enterprise didn't interest me the first time I saw it and the series was canceled long before I decided to give it a full watch, so glad I did as it's an excellent series but it's easy to see why Trek fans turned on it. Universe on the other hand had some good episodes but with writers so caught up in BSG that they never followed up on anything until it was to late, Universe struggled to get a second series due to such low ratings.

I wouldn't mind another Trek but it's not happening as long as these new movies are being made, it's part of the deal.

helimachoptor

I'd love another series, bu it's going to be a long long time away

GreenWolfe

I got the impression that it was mostly the same bunch of core writers that were involved with TNG all the way to Enterprise, and they just eventually ran out of steam. No idea if that was the case though.

I'd rather that people came back to getting a TV series underway (contractual stuff aside) when some new ideas and enough time has passed to make some more great Trek. Another Trek series just for the sake of it really doesn't appeal to me.

The situation with the writing really annoyed me. I think that the Trek non-canon books have plenty to offer. Some of my personal favourites include DS9's Unity, TNG's Death in Winter, the Time To.... series and the SCE ebook series. Seeing some of that stuff, and suffering through seeing the more mundane periods of Enterprise and Voyager? Ugh. In general I'm quite keen on the TNG and DS9 paperbacks but I'm not that enthusiastic about the VOY or ENT books.

And call me shallow, but one of the few entertaining moments in Nemesis was watching the Enterprise-E and the Reman warbird collide.

Myrddin

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

And call me shallow, but one of the few entertaining moments in Nemesis was watching the Enterprise-E and the Reman warbird collide.

Fixed

GreenWolfe

EnterNow wrote: »

Fixed

The Enterprise-E just didn't seem to have much of a screen presence in Nemesis.

Myrddin

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

The Enterprise-E just didn't seem to have much of a screen presence in Nemesis.

Sure between the four movies its in, we bearly get the see the thing at all.

No spine tingling launch scene was a huge mistake.

helimachoptor

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

The Enterprise-E just didn't seem to have much of a screen presence in Nemesis.

I see why you say that, the Scimitar was like nothing seen before but man.. come on it's the Big E, in the scene where the bow comes up the Z axis and she starts firing photons and phasers it's awesome

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

Sure between the four movies its in, we bearly get the see the thing at all.

No spine tingling launch scene was a huge mistake.

The first time we saw her was backlit by the nebula?

I always though that if we could not get a launch shot then they should have had her slowly emerge from the nebula towards the camera.

Given that they needed the ship away from Earth, for there to be the explination of why Enterprise was not involved in the initial battle, having a launch shot was not really an option.

helimachoptor

norrie rugger wrote: »

The first time we saw her was backlit by the nebula?

I always though that if we could not get a launch shot then they should have had her slowly emerge from the nebula towards the camera.

Given that they needed the ship away from Earth, for there to be the explination of why Enterprise was not involved in the initial battle, having a launch shot was not really an option.

Watch from 2:49

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

The first time we saw her was backlit by the nebula?

I always though that if we could not get a launch shot then they should have had her slowly emerge from the nebula towards the camera.

Given that they needed the ship away from Earth, for there to be the explination of why Enterprise was not involved in the initial battle, having a launch shot was not really an option.

Yeah we got a 3 or 4 second Nebula shot didn't we? I'm sure, regardless of where she was at the time, they could have done a hell of a lot better than that.

Even departing from a Starbase? Something with some scope was needed. We got nothing.

After FC the Enterprise was CG...so they can keep it as far as I'm concerned. No CG effect will ever come near the utter scale, class, & sheer brilliance of the Enterprise refit launch. That launch scene was filmed 33 years ago, with a real studio model, real lighting, established & skilled people who were the best in their field at model filming. Look at the results, they really speak for themselves.

I challenge anyone to show me CG which feels as real, conveys that amount of emotion, or approaches the scale of that sequence.

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

Yeah we got a 3 or 4 second Nebula shot didn't we? I'm sure, regardless of where she was at the time, they could have done a hell of a lot better than that.

Even departing from a Starbase? Something with some scope was needed. We got nothing.

After FC the Enterprise was CG...so they can keep it as far as I'm concerned. No CG effect will ever come near the utter scale, class, & sheer brilliance of the Enterprise refit launch. That launch scene was filmed 33 years ago, with a real studio model, real lighting, established & skilled people who were the best in their field at model filming. Look at the results, they really speak for themselves.

I challenge anyone to show me CG which feels as real, conveys that amount of emotion, or approaches the scale of that sequence.

In a perfect world there would be money for models, for close up or dramatic shots

AND

Money for cgi enhanced fast moving battle shots. Some of the CGI in DS9, of the Defiant moving like a wasp around bigger ships, needed to be CG but the station looked crap when they moved to CG

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

In a perfect world there would be money for models, for close up or dramatic shots

AND

Money for cgi enhanced fast moving battle shots. Some of the CGI in DS9, of the Defiant moving like a wasp around bigger ships, needed to be CG but the station looked crap when they moved to CG

Aye, its money that calls the shots really. But that 33 year old sequence of the Enterprise in spacedock...will remain the undisputed king of Trek 'ship sequences' as long as CGI is used {which will be forever as far as I can guess}. CG is just much cheaper to do, hence it makes sense.

I do grant its great for battle shots, the the Dominion Wars stuff etc. But to my knowledge, all the First Contact stuff is model based too & that looked damned near as good...it just costs a lot more.

Anyway, one last time

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

Sure between the four movies its in, we bearly get the see the thing at all.

No spine tingling launch scene was a huge mistake.

Since we only see it in the movies it makes the lack of standout scenes even more strange, pity really as it was a good looking ship.

Myrddin

downwithpeace wrote: »

Since we only see it in the movies it makes the lack of standout scenes even more strange, pity really as it was a good looking ship.

Yeah agreed. In TMP, the launch scene makes you instantly 'know' the ship. You get an amazing sense of familiarity with it in the two odd minutes it takes to do that sequence.

In FC, a quick few seconds beauty shot. It is a sad thing indeed.

norrie rugger

That said I nearly creamed myself seeing it fly past the Defiant. Really gave a sense of the scale of the Enterprise

_Kaiser_

Happy 46th Anniversary everyone

Google have a cool little doodle for it and all.. check it out

(click on the redshirt when you get to the transporter room )