General Star Trek thread

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

Season 4 was a whipping boy, but still contained a lot of emotional, great moments. For sure watching the dependable, faithful archaic ship - after giving so much - finally crumple was, yeah, kinda heartbreaking. Second only to Roslin and Adamas final scene together. Has its detractors and it mostly centres around the plotting but the BSG finale still lingers for me.

It's amazing how it makes you feel sad for a piece of metal like you can really see the ship sacrificing itself. Again back to year of hell it's one of the few times the show tries to make the ship feel important but largely it never felt like a character the way it should have

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

Season 4 was a whipping boy, but still contained a lot of emotional, great moments. For sure watching the dependable, faithful archaic ship - after giving so much - finally crumple was, yeah, kinda heartbreaking. Second only to Roslin and Adamas final scene together. Has its detractors and it mostly centres around the plotting but the BSG finale still lingers for me.

Music was epic though.

For me:

DS9
VOY
TNG
ENT
DIS
PIC

Never really watched TOS as it looks too dated and the ten seconds of Lower Decks I’ve seen means I’ll never watch it either.

Stark

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

For me:

DS9
VOY
TNG
ENT
DIS
PIC

Never really watched TOS as it looks too dated and the ten seconds of Lower Decks I’ve seen means I’ll never watch it either.

It was only in the last year or so I watched TOS from start to finish. Like you, I was always put off by how bad it looked. There are a lot of episodes though where the strong storytelling makes up for its deficiencies in other areas. Especially in the first two seasons. Writing did take a nose dive in the third season with many frankly embarrassing episodes but still managed a few high quality episodes. At the very least, you can't deny yourself the likes of "City on the edge of Forever" or "The Doomsday machine"

flazio

Disco confirmed for Season 4.
Deadline: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Renewed For Season 4 By CBS All Access, Gets Production Start Date.
https://deadline.com/2020/10/star-trek-discovery-renewed-season-4-cbs-all-access-production-start-date-1234598765/

TheValeyard

flazio wrote: »

Disco confirmed for Season 4.
Deadline: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Renewed For Season 4 By CBS All Access, Gets Production Start Date.
https://deadline.com/2020/10/star-trek-discovery-renewed-season-4-cbs-all-access-production-start-date-1234598765/

Good news.

Disco S4
Picard S2
Lower Deck S2
Prodigy new show
New Trek films in works


Great time for Trek since the dark times.

Justin Credible Darts

the one that surprises me most is picard season 2.

Anyone know what the general reception for the first series was with casual fans ?

Stark

I thought season 2 was pretty much a done deal before season 1 aired?

This forum (and online Trek forums in general) is the only place I've encountered hate for Discovery. Anyone I've spoken to in real life loves Discovery. I haven't seen the same reaction for Picard.

pixelburp

I would speculate that the difference is, Discovery stands or falls on its own merits 'cos it's its own thing; whereas I Picard, given the very nature of its subject and setup, came with a lot of high expectations. And was only ever destined to underwhelm at best, completely disappoint at worst.

TheValeyard

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

the one that surprises me most is picard season 2.

Anyone know what the general reception for the first series was with casual fans ?

Started strong, ended silly. Season two will correct.

Hego Damask

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

the one that surprises me most is picard season 2.

Anyone know what the general reception for the first series was with casual fans ?

Utter woke nonsense.

Right now I am doing a re run of TNG , enjoying it a lot, great memories.

Great to see Trek again when it was actually PROGRESSIVE...

Justin Credible Darts

TheValeyard wrote: »

Started strong, ended silly. Season two will correct.

thought the same, started real promising and soon just fell off a cliff

TheValeyard

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

thought the same, started real promising and soon just fell off a cliff

Bring back the Irish Romulan!

Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

Well if we're doing rankings...

TNG
DS9
TOS
DISC
VOY
ENT/PIC

Maybe too harsh on Picard there but at the moment I think I'd miss it the least if it had never happened.

Not sure where I'd put Lower Decks. Not sure it really fits on that list to be honest. I like it though.

Its hard to forgive the writers of Picard for so many missed opportunities.

With the Romulan fleet bearing down on Data-land, how epic would it have been to have Hugh arrive in The Artifact?

Add in some very stupid scenes and that magic wand device, and honestly I could have written a better story myself. The really annoying thing is there were some really great aspects too. The holograms each having their own personality was great. Of course the Emergency Tactical Hologram is a cigar smoking Mexican, and the Emergency Engineering Hologram is Scottish, throwback to Scotty perhaps?

I'd have gotten rid of.. can't remember her name, funky haired alcoholic, and replaced her with the Irish Romulan, who had way more depth and personality.

Voyager, for every good episode there seemed to have been about three lousy ones.

Years ago my friend lent me one of his Voyager videos (thats how long ago it was, before DVDs were commonplace). The episode he wanted me to watch was "Timeless"? It had time in the title. Interesting episode. The other episode on the video was "the adventures of Flotter". Sweet jesus, who approved that script?

Rawr

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd have gotten rid of.. can't remember her name, funky haired alcoholic, and replaced her with the Irish Romulan, who had way more depth and personality.

Raffi...and yes agreed there. I fear this was another case of them fleshing out a character in a connected "Countdown" comic and then not following up in the main event. Apparently Nero from Star Trek 2009 got this treatment too.

She's oddly a good metaphor for Picard Season 1 I feel. Started off as a good idea with decent ways to develop her character, they then tease at an interesting past.....and then they sort of forget what they were doing, get her drunk, hid her in her room....and then slap an ending together where she's suddenly an item with Seven of Nine (without any lead-up or explanation)

The Irish Romulan is another metaphor. I feel that she's the potential Picard Season 1 had and was ultimately left at the vineyard after a handful of episodes.

Picard still has some potential for goodness. However, with Covid still being a big problem every where and Steward's advancing age, I'm not sure how they'll manage to practically make more ST:Picard episodes, greenlit or not.

Rawr

Rawr wrote: »

Raffi...and yes agreed there. I fear this was another case of them fleshing out a character in a connected "Countdown" comic and then not following up in the main event. Apparently Nero from Star Trek 2009 got this treatment too.

She's oddly a good metaphor for Picard Season 1 I feel. Started off as a good idea with decent ways to develop her character, they then tease at an interesting past.....and then they sort of forget what they were doing, get her drunk, hid her in her room....and then slap an ending together where she's suddenly an item with Seven of Nine (without any lead-up or explanation)

The Irish Romulan is another metaphor. I feel that she's the potential Picard Season 1 had and was ultimately left at the vineyard after a handful of episodes.

Picard still has some potential for goodness. However, with Covid still being a big problem every where and Steward's advancing age, I'm not sure how they'll manage to practically make more ST:Picard episodes, greenlit or not.

Those are two perfect metaphors.

Id forgotten about the 7 of 9 lesbian element. Kind of shows how little impact that had when I'd forgotten about that.

Optimus Prime

TheValeyard wrote: »

Good news.

Disco S4
Picard S2
Lower Deck S2
Prodigy new show
New Trek films in works


Great time for Trek since the dark times.

Have you seen the reporting online that Avery Brooks is coming back to trek and they are bringing back DS9 ? I’ve seen a few articles about it the last few days. I personally don’t believe it yet myself but it is popping up a lot. I’m not sure I would want them to bring it back myself, I didn’t like what they did with Picard. Just said I’d mention it though to see what you guys think.

Evade

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Have you seen the reporting online that Avery Brooks is coming back to trek and they are bringing back DS9 ? I’ve seen a few articles about it the last few days. I personally don’t believe it yet myself but it is popping up a lot. I’m not sure I would want them to bring it back myself, I didn’t like what they did with Picard. Just said I’d mention it though to see what you guys think.

A few years ago I would have been ecstatic at the news of a DS9 continuation, now I'd rather they didn't.

Stark

Stark wrote: »

It was only in the last year or so I watched TOS from start to finish. Like you, I was always put off by how bad it looked. There are a lot of episodes though where the strong storytelling makes up for its deficiencies in other areas. Especially in the first two seasons. Writing did take a nose dive in the third season with many frankly embarrassing episodes but still managed a few high quality episodes. At the very least, you can't deny yourself the likes of "City on the edge of Forever" or "The Doomsday machine"

Those two sound like as good a gateway as any so I might watch those and could end up back watching the lot.

pixelburp

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Have you seen the reporting online that Avery Brooks is coming back to trek and they are bringing back DS9 ? I’ve seen a few articles about it the last few days. I personally don’t believe it yet myself but it is popping up a lot. I’m not sure I would want them to bring it back myself, I didn’t like what they did with Picard. Just said I’d mention it though to see what you guys think.

I wonder if that's off the back of the news that Kate Mulgrew would be returning as Janeway for the other animated show. Smells a tad like clickbait rumour. IIRC Brooks retired from acting years ago, can't imagine what might persuade him back - money notwithstanding.

Optimus Prime

pixelburp wrote: »

I wonder if that's off the back of the news that Kate Mulgrew would be returning as Janeway for the other animated show. Smells a tad like clickbait rumour. IIRC Brooks retired from acting years ago, can't imagine what might persuade him back - money notwithstanding.

It could be, i don’t put any stock in it myself at the minute but I’ve seen it pop up a few time’s. first it was just Avery brooks is rumoured to be coming back now I’ve seen DS9 is coming back.

Inviere

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Have you seen the reporting online that Avery Brooks is coming back to trek and they are bringing back DS9 ? I’ve seen a few articles about it the last few days. I personally don’t believe it yet myself but it is popping up a lot. I’m not sure I would want them to bring it back myself, I didn’t like what they did with Picard. Just said I’d mention it though to see what you guys think.

Read an 'article' this morning about it yeah. I seriously hope it's not true, not as long as Kurtzman is anywhere near Trek anyway. I'd say if they do bring it back, it'll be an animated show...that seems to be their thing now. Plus, it ended perfectly...it doesn't need anything else.

If they're prepared to take a universally loved character like Jean Luc Picard, and put his mind in the body of an android....what the hell would they do with Sisko.

pixelburp

The most I might expect, were it true, would be a passing communications cameo - maybe even one in Lower Decks. Not like. Brooks can't do that from the comfort of his studio or home without committing to the energy and stress of an actual production shoot.

breezy1985

TheValeyard wrote: »

Started strong, ended silly. Season two will correct.

That's how I felt too.
The end was awful but the first few episodes got me really excited again about Trek in a way that JJtrek and Discovery couldn't. I've since rewatched loads of the old stuff and all the new ones including LD which I like too

pixelburp

What I will say about Picard in its favour is that it gave Data a better, more character oriented ending that Nemesis's awful Khan knock off. "Data" got his final wish. To be human and so to pass on as a mortal being. It was bittersweet and thinking on it, I liked it, even if the surrounding plot was all over the place.

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

What I will say about Picard in its favour is that it gave Data a better, more character oriented ending that Nemesis's awful Khan knock off. "Data" got his final wish. To be human and so to pass on as a mortal being. It was bittersweet and thinking on it, I liked it, even if the surrounding plot was all over the place.

It was a nice end and one of the big complaints I see from quite a few Trek fans about the new shows is that everything has to end in a big galaxy threatening battle. Picards quiet moments massively outweigh the big scenes and they should have stuck to that

pixelburp

breezy1985 wrote: »

It was a nice end and one of the big complaints I see from quite a few Trek fans about the new shows is that everything has to end in a big galaxy threatening battle. Picards quiet moments massively outweigh the big scenes and they should have stuck to that

Picard was so weird really. Discovery had well publicised issues with its production so have always cut it some slack from a purely structural point of view. But Picard felt haphazard and ad-hoc, especially that bizarre finale. But no news of any strife either. I'm not aware of any behind the scenes problems, Michael Chabon a solid novelist so I was left wondering where the show went "wrong".

If I were to put my "rank speculation" hat on, I'd wonder if Chabon had designs on a purely character driven exploration of Picard and Data, but was overruled or rail-roaded by others demanding more action! Plot twists! High drama! The Irish Romulans felt like they were MEANT to be part of the season, but got dropped for a starship crew. Maybe Chabon was told Trek had to have space adventures; and he didn't have the experience to hold his creative ground. Might at least partially explain the split personality of the show.

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

Picard was so weird really. Discovery had well publicised issues with its production so have always cut it some slack from a purely structural point of view. But Picard felt haphazard and ad-hoc, especially that bizarre finale. But no news of any strife either. I'm not aware of any behind the scenes problems, Michael Chabon a solid novelist so I was left wondering where the show went "wrong".

If I were to put my "rank speculation" hat on, I'd wonder if Chabon had designs on a purely character driven exploration of Picard and Data, but was overruled or rail-roaded by others demanding more action! Plot twists! High drama! The Irish Romulans felt like they were MEANT to be part of the season, but got dropped for a starship crew. Maybe Chabon was told Trek had to have space adventures; and he didn't have the experience to hold his creative ground. Might at least partially explain the split personality of the show.

+1 could be a lot meat to your ideas there.

There are so many whispers of an excellent Trek story in Picard that it's hard not to wonder if it got buried under a load of committee writing. If it had just been Picard, his Romulan friends and maybe the odd TNG alumnus. Gordie for example would have made a lot more sense with Hugh and Data involved. We could have had Picard as a story of him trying to draw a line under his adventures.

With Gordie you could also call in parallels with All Good Things, with the notable exception of Data.

I feel that Picard was probably supposed to have died at the end of what would have been the only season. Also instead of stopping the "Scary space monster from Discovery" you could have had a subplot revolving around potential war with the Romulan Free State over The Artifact which is resolved with Picard using what little life he had left to encourage a final lasting peace with this old enemy. This might have involved a showdown on the Cube, where Picard faces Locutus of Borg one last time, uses his remaining Borg knowledge to disable it and somehow give something useful back to both the Romulans and the Federation to use in peace.

Picard dies a hero, being the peacemaker he was in life. During their adventure, Gordie, Hugh the Romulans & Data are brought together on the old Enterprise E, helmed by an Admiral Riker to watch this end. Data has aged and will continue to age until he dies a natural death (for some reason due to Borg technology and other stuff). Data is moved by this one final lesson on humanity from his old mentor.

Then I'd be temped to echo Wrath of Khan:

Gordie: Data...how do you feel?
Data: I feel.....young...

End with Picard giving the "These are the voyages..." speech. (TNG theme)

AMKC

Anyone else see this?

https://www.geekositymag.com/post/scoop-cbs-considering-deep-space-nine-revival

Not sure how reliable that source us or if it's True or if I even what that to happen. At lot of years have gone by since we were there should would it even still be there and still as busy as it was? What more could you do on it? New crew sure but still quite limited really.

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

Anyone else see this?

https://www.geekositymag.com/post/scoop-cbs-considering-deep-space-nine-revival

Not sure how reliable that source us or if it's True or if I even what that to happen. At lot of years have gone by since we were there should would it even still be there and still as busy as it was? What more could you do on it? New crew sure but still quite limited really.

This has popped up online a few times now. Not sure how true it is either, but considering how Picard turned out towards the end, I'd be worried about it.