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General Star Trek thread

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    #542
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Yep she bumps into someone & subconsciously has an aggressive though & is punished for it. I remember it well, like I do the rest of them :o

    Or the one where Torres has telepathic thoughts of a lost forbidden love??
    I may have said this once or twice but I hate Voyager. In fact I think that it killed the Trek franchise more than Enterprise, there was just no goodwill left for Enterprise to find its feet


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    #543
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    Or the one where Torres has telepathic thoughts of a lost forbidden love??

    I actually don't recall that one, must be a repressed memory :D
    I may have said this once or twice but I hate Voyager. In fact I think that it killed the Trek franchise more than Enterprise, there was just no goodwill left for Enterprise to find its feet

    Could not agree more with this


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    #544
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    EnterNow wrote: »
    I actually don't recall that one, must be a repressed memory :D

    Conveniently enough Remember


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    #545
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    Or the one where Torres has telepathic thoughts of a lost forbidden love??
    I may have said this once or twice but I hate Voyager. In fact I think that it killed the Trek franchise more than Enterprise, there was just no goodwill left for Enterprise to find its feet

    What really pissed me off about Voyager is they went out of their way to mention how moral and brilliant they were, especially Captain Painway.

    Imagine a battered ship with a Starfleet/Maquis crew who distrusted each other. Maybe 2 ships travelling along side each other, eventually learning to get along, Starfleet technology, values, and the Maquis with their experience of being underdogs and having limited resources.

    We all love a good mystery, in Caretaker, Starfleet mention they have a spy on the Maquis ship, it would've have been so much cooler to have let that run over a few episodes, maybe half a season. The identity is kept secret from the viewer so we'd keep watching. Instead of Chakotay being a lapdog he should've done the things Painway wouldn't do. Almost like the relationship between Section 31 and Starfleet, they don't approve of them but they let them do their thing because it benefits them.

    On Voyager a senior crew of Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, the Doctor, Kim, maybe Carey as Chief Engineer should've been enough since Voyager has a small crew anyway. Cut Neelix and Kes.

    The Val Jean (make it bigger) with Chakotay, Seska, Torres, a couple of others. After a couple of episdoes, I see a storyline where Chakotay gives Voyager the 2 fingers, a disagreement about morals or something, Voyager tries to negotiate and gets ambushed. The Val Jean goes to their aid, despite the entire crew disagreeing, but Chakotay keeps them in check and sacrificies the ship.

    Voyager did a slightly different version but lasted about half an episode where they could've based a season around it instead of focusing on the stupid Kazons.


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    #546
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    What really pissed me off about Voyager is they went out of their way to mention how moral and brilliant they were, especially Captain Painway.

    Imagine a battered ship with a Starfleet/Maquis crew who distrusted each other. Maybe 2 ships travelling along side each other, eventually learning to get along, Starfleet technology, values, and the Maquis with their experience of being underdogs and having limited resources.

    We all love a good mystery, in Caretaker, Starfleet mention they have a spy on the Maquis ship, it would've have been so much cooler to have let that run over a few episodes, maybe half a season. The identity is kept secret from the viewer so we'd keep watching. Instead of Chakotay being a lapdog he should've done the things Painway wouldn't do. Almost like the relationship between Section 31 and Starfleet, they don't approve of them but they let them do their thing because it benefits them.

    Thats what Norrie is basically saying, the writers ruined nearly every good plot/premise/idea consistently over seven seasons. Even the much applauded Year Of Hell two parter could have been much, much better & darker.

    Voyager was so bad, so consistently poor & wasteful...that Enterprise never truly stood a chance.


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    #547
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Thats what Norrie is basically saying, the writers ruined nearly every good plot/premise/idea consistently over seven seasons. Even the much applauded Year Of Hell two parter could have been much, much better & darker.

    Voyager was so bad, so consistently poor & wasteful...that Enterprise never truly stood a chance.

    Enterprise and Voyager were almost opposites, Voyager started on their own, but struggled so they soon copied plots from TNG/DS9. Borg, Seven of Nine (which was a DS9 idea) etc.

    Enterprise only got good in Season 4.

    So much wasted potential :(


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    #548
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    What really pissed me off about Voyager is they went out of their way to mention how moral and brilliant they were, especially Captain Painway.

    Imagine a battered ship with a Starfleet/Maquis crew who distrusted each other. Maybe 2 ships travelling along side each other, eventually learning to get along, Starfleet technology, values, and the Maquis with their experience of being underdogs and having limited resources.

    We all love a good mystery, in Caretaker, Starfleet mention they have a spy on the Maquis ship, it would've have been so much cooler to have let that run over a few episodes, maybe half a season. The identity is kept secret from the viewer so we'd keep watching. Instead of Chakotay being a lapdog he should've done the things Painway wouldn't do. Almost like the relationship between Section 31 and Starfleet, they don't approve of them but they let them do their thing because it benefits them.

    On Voyager a senior crew of Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, the Doctor, Kim, maybe Carey as Chief Engineer should've been enough since Voyager has a small crew anyway. Cut Neelix and Kes.

    The Val Jean (make it bigger) with Chakotay, Seska, Torres, a couple of others. After a couple of episdoes, I see a storyline where Chakotay gives Voyager the 2 fingers, a disagreement about morals or something, Voyager tries to negotiate and gets ambushed. The Val Jean goes to their aid, despite the entire crew disagreeing, but Chakotay keeps them in check and sacrificies the ship.

    Voyager did a slightly different version but lasted about half an episode where they could've based a season around it instead of focusing on the stupid Kazons.


    I have said pretty much exactly this, earlier in this post (or in one of the others).
    Voyager was the biggest waste of potential. It had the opportunity to show how people outside the Federation view its citizens and structures. It should have shown the starfleet people struggle to hold onto their morals and beliefs, in the face of overwhelming odds, while the Maquis crew just did what needed to be done.
    TNG was a format that lived well within an "Reset button" format but Voyager having to travel home was never going to work like that


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    #549
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Enterprise only got good in Season 4.

    I would advise you to watch season 3 again, over the course of a weekend/week. When viewed back to back it is actually a very tense and fraught season. It maybe tried to force too much into the season, which is why it felt disjointed when viewed week by week but it really is much better than you would remember


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    #550
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Enterprise only got good in Season 4

    I've watched Enterprise in its entirety maybe four or five times by now, only this year I finished my most recent run through. It gets better each time, & I firmly believe it walks all over Voyager. From season 2 onwards, it makes very good 'Trek' viewing


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    #551
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    I would advise you to watch season 3 again, over the course of a weekend/week. When viewed back to back it is actually a very tense and fraught season. It maybe tried to force too much into the season, which is why it felt disjointed when viewed week by week but it really is much better than you would remember

    Was Season 3 the Xindi storyline, temporal cold war bollocks? I hated that.

    But most of all, I hate Archer and Merriweather. T'Pol is annoying too, Spock was supposed to be the first Vulcan, end of. Having Tuvok too is overload. :P


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    #552
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    What really pissed me off about Voyager is they went out of their way to mention how moral and brilliant they were, especially Captain Painway.

    Imagine a battered ship with a Starfleet/Maquis crew who distrusted each other. Maybe 2 ships travelling along side each other, eventually learning to get along, Starfleet technology, values, and the Maquis with their experience of being underdogs and having limited resources.

    Of course Ron D. Moore ended up making the show that you're talking about.


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    #553
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Was Season 3 the Xindi storyline, temporal cold war bollocks? I hated that.

    But most of all, I hate Archer and Merriweather. T'Pol is annoying too, Spock was supposed to be the first Vulcan, end of. Having Tuvok too is overload. :P

    Taking most of the temporal cold war out of it and it is some great Trek.

    Impulse, The Shipment, Twilight, Similitude, Proving Ground, Doctor's Orders (admittedly a copy of a Voyager episode), Damage, E².

    These are great episodes and deserve a second viewing.


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    #554
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Nice little video on DeForest Kelly, seemed like an old school gent



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    #555
    Dark Paintedcurtain
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Dark Paintedcurtain


    I really don't see why Tuvok would have stayed undercover given his mission was basically complete, but I do agree that there should have been more ructions. Not necessarily from Chakotay himself, but from the lower decks, with Chakotay in the middle. That way, they would have all stayed on the ship but would have remained a perennial problem.

    It's particularly telling because the episode where Tuvok turns people into Maquis fell flat. Suddenly the Maquis got paranoid of the people who spent the last seven years not so much as having a cross word about them putting them into comas.

    If there was tensions already, it would not have seemed so random.


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    #556
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    I've hit my first 'must-skip' episode in my most recent Voyager run through. Season 1 - Heroes And Demons. Normally I like The Doctor based episodes, but I find this episode totally unwatchable.

    I dislike Holodeck based episodes to begin with, but add in Norse mythology, terrible names, bad acting & a ridiculous premise...next!


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    #557
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Ugh, Cathexis is next. Chakotays conscientiousness floats around Voyager until someone figured out how to use the medicine wheel to put it back where it belongs. Ah Koo Chi Moya, no thanks. Next!

    Two unwatchable episodes in a row, ouch.


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    #558
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    I am a witch doctor and I will have to fight another soul...woeful!


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    #559
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    EnterNow wrote: »
    I've hit my first 'must-skip' episode in my most recent Voyager run through. Season 1 - Heroes And Demons. Normally I like The Doctor based episodes, but I find this episode totally unwatchable.

    I dislike Holodeck based episodes to begin with, but add in Norse mythology, terrible names, bad acting & a ridiculous premise...next!

    I like that episode, it is a bit of craic. I particularly like the doctor eating the big piece of chicken in such a civilised way.

    It's a bit of nonsensical fun IMO.

    However the next episode you mention sucks big time. I hate all that a koo chi moya crap.


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    #560
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    I like that episode, it is a bit of craic. I particularly like the doctor eating the big piece of chicken in such a civilised way.

    It's a bit of nonsensical fun IMO.

    However the next episode you mention sucks big time. I hate all that a koo chi moya crap.

    Nah, holodeck episodes are a struggle at the best of times.


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    #561
    GreenWolfe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭GreenWolfe


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Nah, holodeck episodes are a struggle at the best of times.

    That TNG episode where Worf's brother transported an entire village to another planet in the holodeck is really good.


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    #562
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    That TNG episode where Worf's brother transported an entire village to another planet in the holodeck is really good.

    Yeah it seemed way more believable than most other holodeck ideas for episodes.


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    #563
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Nah, holodeck episodes are a struggle at the best of times.

    Professor Moriarty episodes were cool, especially how good Daniel Davis was.
    It was also the fore-runner to the holographic rights episode and potentially the EMH programmes, althought that was never explored fully.

    I wonder if they ever brought them out of that cube?


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    #564
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    I wonder if they ever brought them out of that cube?

    It was probably destroyed at Viridian 3 :(


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    #565
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    That TNG episode where Worf's brother transported an entire village to another planet in the holodeck is really good.

    Having an actor like Paul Sorvino really helped also


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    #566
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    EnterNow wrote: »
    It was probably destroyed at Viridian 3 :(

    :( indeed. I would have liked if they had mentioned it being the inspiration of Zimmerman, to create the EMH doctors. Then it would probably have been on his station.


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    #567
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    :( indeed. I would have liked if they had mentioned it being the inspiration of Zimmerman, to create the EMH doctors. Then it would probably have been on his station.

    Maybe they sent it to the Daystrom Institute? After all, they would have been very interested in it seeing as Moriarty was the first sentient hologram...


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    #568
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Maybe they sent it to the Daystrom Institute? After all, they would have been very interested in it seeing as Moriarty was the first sentient hologram...

    Yeah I can't imagine Picard just putting it on a shelf somewhere. His program would definitely have been for study.


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    #569
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    About the only Holodeck one i 'enjoyed' was A Fistful Of Data's...

    Trek was poking fun at itself and the old west genre there.... the closing scene gave me a right giggle, the Enterprise heading off into the sun....


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    #570
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    gatecrash wrote: »
    About the only Holodeck one i 'enjoyed' was A Fistful Of Data's...

    Trek was poking fun at itself and the old west genre there.... the closing scene gave me a right giggle, the Enterprise heading off into the sun....

    Plus it had Brent Spiner in it, it was automatically brilliant


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    #571
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Plus it had Brent Spiner in it, it was automatically brilliant

    And Brent Spiner
    And Brent Spiner
    And Brent Spiner
    And Brent Spiner



    (Considering he played 6 different characters in that episode)

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708669/trivia?tab=tr&item=tr0728142

    THAT surprised me though....


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