General Star Trek thread

Myrddin · 01-10-2012 8:54am

alproctor wrote: »

All 176 eps of DS9 now logged.

Well done good sir. I finished my recent run through a couple of months back, you do indeed miss it!

helimachoptor · 01-10-2012 9:17am

the lack of continuity around peoples ranks is really a pet hate of mine.

Apart from anything should the actor not know how many pips he/she has on their neck

Myrddin · 01-10-2012 9:26am

helimachoptor wrote: »

the lack of continuity around peoples ranks is really a pet hate of mine.

Apart from anything should the actor not know how many pips he/she has on their neck

This thing with Paris & Tuvok though, it's so blatant it's almost like there was meant to be an explanation...but was written out due to time constraints or something. We'll prob never know what the reason for it was, or indeed, if there even was a reason

helimachoptor · 01-10-2012 9:32am

EnterNow wrote: »

This thing with Paris & Tuvok though, it's so blatant it's almost like there was meant to be an explanation...but was written out due to time constraints or something. We'll prob never know what the reason for it was, or indeed, if there even was a reason

Probably laziness, but it stuff like that annoys a lot of people.

I mean imagine a Lt. Cmdr on an aircraft carrier came to work one day and he was a Lt.. i think he'd notice

Beefy78 · 01-10-2012 10:45am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Also they must have demoted Torres too. Cause in one of the episodes Paris said he outranks her (an ep from the 3rd or 4th season), but Torres was made Chief Engineer ahead of the Ginger haird guy (forget his name ). The ginger haired guy was a full Lieutenant, so Torres would have been made a full Lieutenant and when Paris was demoted to junior she'd be ahead of him.

Could Torres not have been Chief Engineer without having been made a Lieutenant? Surely rank and role are two different things - hence O'Brien being Chief Engineer of DS9.

Myrddin · 01-10-2012 10:52am

Beefy78 wrote: »

Could Torres not have been Chief Engineer without having been made a Lieutenant? Surely rank and roll are two different things - hence O'Brien being Chief Engineer of DS9.

Yeah we had a similar discussion in the Doesn't Make Sense thread recently regards rank & role. I think Torres' was never given a rank per say, just Chief Engineer therefore outranking Lt. Kerry.

Paris would outrank Torres, & Torres would outrank Paris depending on the situation, it really is down to the context.

Pride Fighter · 01-10-2012 2:38pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

Could Torres not have been Chief Engineer without having been made a Lieutenant? Surely rank and role are two different things - hence O'Brien being Chief Engineer of DS9.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%27Elanna_Torres

Later, when she joined the USS Voyager, she was given provisional rank of Lieutenant, junior grade and posted in engineering. After some time she was promoted to the provisional rank of Lieutenant and made the Chief Engineer.

I guess she was a full Lieutenant. But Paris as a junior outranked her. Another Voyager plot hole.

Myrddin · 01-10-2012 2:41pm

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I guess she was a full Lieutenant. But Paris as a junior outranked her. Another Voyager plot hole.

What was the situation/context of the scene where he outranked her? Also, might this have happened while Paris was still a full Lieutenant?

IvySlayer · 01-10-2012 6:47pm

I remembering Paris and Torres arguing once over rank, Paris said he was a Bridge officer therefore he was senior.

Pride Fighter · 01-10-2012 8:23pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

I remembering Paris and Torres arguing once over rank, Paris said he was a Bridge officer therefore he was senior.

Yep, you remember. I'm not sure of the episode myself, might have been the Pon Farr episode with Ensign Vorak, but I am not 100% sure.

Quandary · 01-10-2012 8:41pm

Nearly finished watching TNG box set for the third time in the last 2 years

What a brilliant series!

I loved all the star treks - even Voyager despite Janeways ear polluting voice!

Loved DS9 too despite the lame father son scenes between Sisko and his son Jake.

I've started watching Farscape but find it a bit wooden and unnatural. I'm up to about episode 10 of series 1 so will keep going, hopefully it gets better!

Cossax · 01-10-2012 10:14pm

alproctor wrote: »

All 176 eps of DS9 now logged.

The highlights for me:-
'In the Pale Moonlight' - my faourite episode. "It's a faaaaaake!!!!"

'The Visitor'

Episode with Quark and Odo stranded on planet. Cant remember what it's called.

O'Briens "AAH BOLLOX!!!!"

Garek - all of his stuff was brilliant

Quark. Just Quark.

It's only a paper moon - Nog's struggle with re-integration after his injury

Jadzia

Evil Kira's uniform

Probably leaving loads out but these are my immediate memories. Kinda sad it's finished - started on June 26th, and watched every episode in order. There was about 20/25 episodes that I hadn't seen before.
Dunno what to watch next.....

EDIT - just found this, i got a laugh out of it.

Love that YouTube clip!

Has there been a better Trek episode in any series than In The Pale Moonlight?

Oh and Evil Kira coming onto Good Kira...;) :pac:

Beefy78 · 02-10-2012 9:10am

Quandary wrote: »

Loved DS9 too despite the lame father son scenes between Sisko and his son Jake.

Really? I find the Sisko/Jake relationship to be very good and they both seem very natural in their scenes together. I usually dislike the token kid in these things but I thought Cirroc Lofton was great.

Cookie_Monster · 02-10-2012 9:16am

EnterNow wrote: »

This thing with Paris & Tuvok though, it's so blatant it's almost like there was meant to be an explanation...but was written out due to time constraints or something. We'll prob never know what the reason for it was, or indeed, if there even was a reason

clearly Tuvok was busted down for making Voyager having to chase down the marquis and get stuck 70k light years away

As for Paris it could be that he was given a provisional rank for the mission but since it got extended he was given a lower permanent one?

that's about the best i can do

Myrddin · 02-10-2012 9:20am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

clearly Tuvok was busted down for making Voyager having to chase down the marquis and get stuck 70k light years away

Nah

As for Paris it could be that he was given a provisional rank for the mission but since it got extended he was given a lower permanent one?

that's about the best i can do

He was only ever an observer, with no rank, until they got stranded. Once in the Delta Quadrant, he was made a full Lieutenant by Janeway. So it doesn't make sense because from the moment he was given his first rank, Janeway knew the mission was going to be extended...seriously extended.

I watched an ep last night & Tuvok addressed himself as Lieutenant, not Commander which wouldn't be unusual for a Lt. Commander...so its clearly not just a prop error.

Edit, from Wikipedia:

At the opening of the 4th season episode "Revulsion", relatively dated 2374, Tuvok was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant Commander. Before this in most of the 1st season he is frequently referred to as "Lieutenant", even though he wears Lieutenant Commander rank insignia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvok

Quandary · 02-10-2012 11:27am

Beefy78 wrote: »

Really? I find the Sisko/Jake relationship to be very good and they both seem very natural in their scenes together. I usually dislike the token kid in these things but I thought Cirroc Lofton was great.

Cirroc Lofton wasn't the problem, I just found Cisco's character a bit annoying during the father son interactions

Not Wesley Crusher or Neelix annoying, but still!

Myrddin · 02-10-2012 11:45am

I'd agree with Beefy, I found the father/son thing quite well done. The episode 'The Visitor' wouldn't have been so good if it wern't for how well developed the relationship was

helimachoptor · 02-10-2012 12:21pm

The visitor is a stand out episode, but as Enter says the relationship was very well developed and father/son were very close so it lost a little of the "hit" it could have gotten if they were a bit more distant. Jake having all those years to realise what he's lost etc

I mean losing your mother young and then your father a few years later and them not being close, could have led to a more powerful ep.. but it was still a great ep

norrie rugger · 02-10-2012 12:37pm

helimachoptor wrote: »

The visitor is a stand out episode, but as Enter says the relationship was very well developed and father/son were very close so it lost a little of the "hit" it could have gotten if they were a bit more distant. Jake having all those years to realise what he's lost etc

I mean losing your mother young and then your father a few years later and them not being close, could have led to a more powerful ep.. but it was still a great ep

the thing with the Visitor is that it showed the struggle and torment that Jake went through, for the rest of his life. Having him come to a slow realisation would not have been as heart wrenching. Jake threw away his life, to save his father and literally then threw it away, by rewriting the timeline (also of everyone else, in said timeline, but that would be my only criticism of the episode)

helimachoptor · 02-10-2012 5:56pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

I remembering Paris and Torres arguing once over rank, Paris said he was a Bridge officer therefore he was senior.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Yep, you remember. I'm not sure of the episode myself, might have been the Pon Farr episode with Ensign Vorak, but I am not 100% sure.

The ep this was in was the one were they get transported off the ship into a habitat by the Nerians

Its on CBS action now, Torres says Paris cant order her around, he said he's a bridge office and also has seniorority (torrest then jokes its only by 2 days)

Myrddin · 02-10-2012 9:32pm

helimachoptor wrote: »

Torres says Paris cant order her around, he said he's a bridge office and also has seniorority (torrest then jokes its only by 2 days)

Hmm, I don't remember that one, but I'm sure I'll get to it eventually. I don't think Bridge Officer authority would carry any additional weight outside of the bridge

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 03-10-2012 8:49am

couldnt thinkof anywhere else for this..

Myrddin · 03-10-2012 9:00am

Kahless would be rolling in his grave {the real one that is}

IvySlayer · 03-10-2012 5:10pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Hmm, I don't remember that one, but I'm sure I'll get to it eventually. I don't think Bridge Officer authority would carry any additional weight outside of the bridge

Why not? He was a Bridge Officer, often left in command if Tuvok and Chakotay were not around. Made Acting XO a couple of times. One would assume he passed the Bridge Officer Test which makes him the ranking officer in this case!!

Myrddin · 03-10-2012 5:35pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

Why not? He was a Bridge Officer, often left in command if Tuvok and Chakotay were not around. Made Acting XO a couple of times. One would assume he passed the Bridge Officer Test which makes him the ranking officer in this case!!

In what case though? A bridge officer can't exactly waltz down to engineering & start throwing their weight around. When I get to the episode I'll see what context it was said in, but I've never seen a bridge officer take command anywhere else (except actual ranking officers like Riker, Data etc).

The bridge officer thing as far as I see it, is for a clear chain of command on the bridge only

IvySlayer · 03-10-2012 5:53pm

EnterNow wrote: »

In what case though? A bridge officer can't exactly waltz down to engineering & start throwing their weight around. When I get to the episode I'll see what context it was said in, but I've never seen a bridge officer take command anywhere else (except actual ranking officers like Riker, Data etc).

The bridge officer thing as far as I see it, is for a clear chain of command on the bridge only

It didn't happen in Engineering :P It was off the ship, not spoiling anything else

Please Kill Me · 03-10-2012 5:59pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

couldnt thinkof anywhere else for this..

Oh sweet mother of divine Jesus!! :eek: It's so bad, it's funny!

EnterNow wrote: »

Kahless would be rolling in his grave {the real one that is}

LMAO!!

Myrddin · 03-10-2012 6:03pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

It didn't happen in Engineering :P It was off the ship, not spoiling anything else

Then again, it comes down to context. You won't be spoiling anything, I've seen every single episode of every season of every show, multiple times...this ones eludes me though as many VOY eps do. Repressed memory ftw

If it happened off the ship, many things come into consideration regards taking command. Maybe your right, but the way I see & understand it, being a bridge officer doesn't make you more superior to an equal rank once outside of the bridge. A senior officer, well thats different

From the sounds of it, its Paris' just posturing & chancing his arm. What exactly happened in the end?

IvySlayer · 03-10-2012 11:59pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Then again, it comes down to context. You won't be spoiling anything, I've seen every single episode of every season of every show, multiple times...this ones eludes me though as many VOY eps do. Repressed memory ftw

If it happened off the ship, many things come into consideration regards taking command. Maybe your right, but the way I see & understand it, being a bridge officer doesn't make you more superior to an equal rank once outside of the bridge. A senior officer, well thats different

From the sounds of it, its Paris' just posturing & chancing his arm. What exactly happened in the end?

It was the episode where the crew was being replaced by an alien species one by one and placed into habitats.
They broke out of theirs and into another one which was really cold. Torres falls and he 'orders' her up!

So the chain of command is as follows, rank, seniority, division, Starfleet directives. Just as in a tactical situation, Janeway was the ranking officer over over Captain Ransom.

Kirby · 04-10-2012 4:21am

IvySlayer wrote: »

It was the episode where the crew was being replaced by an alien species one by one and placed into habitats.
They broke out of theirs and into another one which was really cold. Torres falls and he 'orders' her up!

So the chain of command is as follows, rank, seniority, division, Starfleet directives. Just as in a tactical situation, Janeway was the ranking officer over over Captain Ransom.

Plot devices shouldn't count though.

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