General Star Trek thread

cyrusdvirus

Kirby wrote: »

Plot devices shouldn't count though.

Actually, from a military standpoint, THAT particular plot device makes sense.

Normally it depends on who attained captains rank first, but for arguments sake, a captain of USS Harpers Ferry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpers_Ferry_class_dock_landing_ship , would probably not know the full capabilities of a Ticonderoga class Cruiser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticonderoga_class_cruiser. So surely the captain of the Ticonderoga class ship would have seniority, no matter WHO reached rank first.

EDIT

Obviously, this only relates to a Blue water engagement. If the Tico is covering the Harpers ferry during landing operations, then the Captain of the landing ship would have seniority

cyrusdvirus

IvySlayer wrote: »

It was the episode where the crew was being replaced by an alien species one by one and placed into habitats.
They broke out of theirs and into another one which was really cold. Torres falls and he 'orders' her up!

So the chain of command is as follows, rank, seniority, division, Starfleet directives. Just as in a tactical situation, Janeway was the ranking officer over over Captain Ransom.

That could have been just trying to get under her klingon skin and annoy her.

I mean, how would you feel if a junior person in your workplace ORDERED you to do something?

You'd get up from the freezing snow, grab a Bat'leth and decapitate them!

helimachoptor

Lads just watching the ep with the Romulus defector admiral, the enterprise goes to nelvana 3 and gets jumped on by 2 warbirds.

What episode is it where something similar happens, but the enterprise has a couple of Klingon ships cloaked for back up?

cyrusdvirus

helimachoptor wrote: »

Lads just watching the ep with the Romulus defector admiral, the enterprise goes to nelvana 3 and gets jumped on by 2 warbirds.

What episode is it where something similar happens, but the enterprise has a couple of Klingon ships cloaked for back up?

According to Mem Alpha, that WAS the ep??

helimachoptor

So it is! Should have watched the whole thing before jumping the gun!!

Myrddin

gatecrash wrote: »

According to Mem Alpha, that WAS the ep??

Yep, thats the episode, 'The Defector'. Love that episode, the chap who plays the romulan is brilliantly brilliant & has been in a couple of eps as different characters - has a real distinctive voice.

Pride Fighter

EnterNow wrote: »

Yep, thats the episode, 'The Defector'. Love that episode, the chap who plays the romulan is brilliantly brilliant & has been in a couple of eps as different characters - has a real distinctive voice.

He is, but Tomalok is the ultimate Romulan. He's also the ultimate Narn in Babylon 5

Kirby

Vreenak thinks Tomalok is a fake! I agree with him.

Kiith

I loved Tomalok in TNG. I loved the Romulans in TNG for that matter. They were a proper sneaky enemy, who seemed to really have it out for the Federation. Loved how they were the main 'bad guys' for quite a while.

helimachoptor

That continued into DS9 with the tal'shiar participating in the doomed attack on the founders home world, however the romulans were criminally under used over all in DS9

cyrusdvirus

helimachoptor wrote: »

That continued into DS9 with the tal'shiar participating in the doomed attack on the founders home world, however the romulans were criminally under used over all in DS9

Yeah, they were.....BUT

It was also an effort to show how big the Federation was, that while the Ent-D seemed to spend most of her life over near the Romulan Sphere of influence, that DS9 was in a totally different region of the galaxy, where there was a different power in opposition to the Federation.

nyarlothothep

Why did Picard never hook up with Beverley? It's like Tim and Daisy in Spaced or any other number of ideal for each other characters that never make the last step. Also what did Guinan mean when she said her relationship with him was much more than friendship? Were they going out with each other?

IvySlayer

gatecrash wrote: »

Yeah, they were.....BUT

It was also an effort to show how big the Federation was, that while the Ent-D seemed to spend most of her life over near the Romulan Sphere of influence, that DS9 was in a totally different region of the galaxy, where there was a different power in opposition to the Federation.

They tried...then they eventually brought Klingons and Romulans in. If space is so big, why not go around fleets? :pac:

Why didn't the Dominion build their own space station on the other side of the wormhole if it was so important!

norrie rugger

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Why did Picard never hook up with Beverley? It's like Tim and Daisy in Spaced or any other number of ideal for each other characters that never make the last step. Also what did Guinan mean when she said her relationship with him was much more than friendship? Were they going out with each other?

I suppose that they did discuss it, during that time where they could read each others thoughts.

The books carry it on a fair deal. Reading the books is very bitter sweet, I want to be able to see the characters, as acted by the people that I am used to. I like that they story is continuing and that my mind still pictures the characters in their prime, rather than ageing actors.

norrie rugger

IvySlayer wrote: »

They tried...then they eventually brought Klingons and Romulans in. If space is so big, why not go around fleets? :pac:

Why didn't the Dominion build their own space station on the other side of the wormhole if it was so important!

Fleets can moce to intercept though.
I imagine that the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers were just not a threat to the Dominion home territory. The Federation were never able to mount a strike into Dominion territory, escpcially as the fronts were at the Cardassian/Breen borders. They also thought that the capture of DS9 would secure the wormhole anyway.

Myrddin

and sure once the war started, Gamma Quadrant exploration all but halted. No real need for a big station on the Gamma Quadrant end. Especially when you consider they had a big huge Nebula to hide in that Worf found

helimachoptor

norrie rugger wrote: »

Fleets can moce to intercept though.
I imagine that the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers were just not a threat to the Dominion home territory. The Federation were never able to mount a strike into Dominion territory, escpcially as the fronts were at the Cardassian/Breen borders. They also thought that the capture of DS9 would secure the wormhole anyway.

The Federation is not an invasion type organisation, also.. sending ships into the gamma quadrant, anytype of engine problems mean they'll most likely get captured/destroyed before they got back to the wormhole.

cyrusdvirus

IvySlayer wrote: »

They tried...then they eventually brought Klingons and Romulans in. If space is so big, why not go around fleets? :pac:

Why didn't the Dominion build their own space station on the other side of the wormhole if it was so important!

The Klingons and Romulans were brought in to prove that the threat of the dominion was worse than anything previously encountered.

ESPECIALLY with a willing ally and foothold already in the alpha quadrant.

Myrddin

gatecrash wrote: »

The Klingons and Romulans were brought in to prove that the threat of the dominion was worse than anything previously encountered.

ESPECIALLY with a willing ally and foothold already in the alpha quadrant.

Agreed, it was to unite all the major powers in the Alpha Quadrant. God I'm already dying to rewatch DS9 & I'm not long finished it

cyrusdvirus

EnterNow wrote: »

Agreed, it was to unite all the major powers in the Alpha Quadrant. God I'm already dying to rewatch DS9 & I'm not long finished it

DS9 did certainly raise the bar in terms of Star Trek.


One thing that always bothered me, and it was criminally underused in TNG was the Z axis. I only recall a few instances where the Z- axis was used in TNG, the obvious one being Riker's personal Flagship Enterprise D blowing the snot out of a Negh'Var in All good Things. But there were SOOOO many othe times that i felt it could have been used to resolve the difficulty of the week.

Take the episode New Ground for example, the one with the soliton wave. From what i remember, they send off the wave, there's a problem and it destroys the test ship. The wave gains power, and can't be dissipated in the planned way, and Ent-D can't get through without running the risk of getting destroyed.

Fair enough, that could be a problem, you can't plough your ship through a wave. SO CLIMB UP OVER THE WAVE FFS!!!!


Then there was the one where she was trapped by the 2 d beings that were dragging them along (i don't think this was time squared) and the entities were all around the saucer section and nacelles, preventing the ship from going to warp, or manoeuvring on that plane.... why not adapt a nose/stem high posture in relation to your direction of drift, quick burst of impulse engine and away you go......

helimachoptor

gatecrash wrote: »

DS9 did certainly raise the bar in terms of Star Trek.


One thing that always bothered me, and it was criminally underused in TNG was the Z axis. I only recall a few instances where the Z- axis was used in TNG, the obvious one being Riker's personal Flagship Enterprise D blowing the snot out of a Negh'Var in All good Things. But there were SOOOO many othe times that i felt it could have been used to resolve the difficulty of the week.

Take the episode New Ground for example, the one with the soliton wave. From what i remember, they send off the wave, there's a problem and it destroys the test ship. The wave gains power, and can't be dissipated in the planned way, and Ent-D can't get through without running the risk of getting destroyed.

Fair enough, that could be a problem, you can't plough your ship through a wave. SO CLIMB UP OVER THE WAVE FFS!!!!


Then there was the one where she was trapped by the 2 d beings that were dragging them along (i don't think this was time squared) and the entities were all around the saucer section and nacelles, preventing the ship from going to warp, or manoeuvring on that plane.... why not adapt a nose/stem high posture in relation to your direction of drift, quick burst of impulse engine and away you go......

Actually i think think in the ep, they said going around it would mean they wouldnt have time to get in front due to the speed it was going so had no option but to go through it.

cyrusdvirus

helimachoptor wrote: »

Actually i think think in the ep, they said going around it would mean they wouldnt have time to get in front due to the speed it was going so had no option but to go through it.

I'm not talking about going around it.


________________________________ <>
The wave Ent-D

Why not climb up a wee bit and fly over it?

<>
Ent-D
________________________________
The wave



<>
Ent-D
________________________________
The wave

Eventually ending up in front of it...



Ill 2 should be with the Ent-D at the start of the wave, just above it.



Apologies for the brilliant illustrations!!

Goldstein

Yes, 2D thinking is fairly systemic in Star Trek. Even in the rare appearance of the extra vector in some DS9 battles, 95% of everything on screen is still oriented in the same plane and bearing and behaves in distinctly aeroplane-eske ways. We never see ships moving in a certain direction rotate on one of their their own axes while maintaining their initial bearing. Instead they always "bank" like planes have to. That kind of thinking always annoys me in those scenes but the shows are a few years old now so you just have to forgive it and enjoy the show.

Battlestar Galactica and Firefly were the first shows I can remember to show things more realistically.

Edit: Also, anyone remember Praxis exploding in glorious 2D?




It's one of my favourite eps of all time but can anyone see a possible weak spot in Picard's "blockade" of the Romulan border in Redemption - a border I'm assuming exists in space somewhere

Myrddin

Goldstein wrote: »

Edit: Also, anyone remember Praxis?

I think in that case, the blast wave was right on top of the Excelsior before Sulu had the chance to really change direction. But yeah, kinda unlucky that you were sitting at the exact spot that wave would pass through, dimension wise

Pride Fighter

The Wrath of Khan used the Z axis to great effect. It certainly was under-utilised in Trek.

Goldstein

EnterNow wrote: »

I think in that case, the blast wave was right on top of the Excelsior before Sulu had the chance to really change direction. But yeah, kinda unlucky that you were sitting at the exact spot that wave would pass through, dimension wise

Yip, also planets tend to explode in all directions, if they were prone to exploding that is I know only a part of Praxis was blown off (A large part) but the blast would still propagate outwards as some kind of expanding cone shape and not a circular blast wave confined to the x + y axis. Like a planetary nebula in very, very, very fast forward.

Goldstein

One time ships varied from the everything in the same plane ethos was from Enterprise's outstanding Divergence. That was one of the best episodes of Star Trek in years. The moment when we all realised...wait a sec...Enterprise is just an upside-down Akira!

downwithpeace

Goldstein wrote: »

The moment when we all realised...wait a sec...Enterprise is just an upside-down Akira!

There's a few posts regarding the NX-Akira around here somewhere, all comes down to that moment of...wait a second and rewind

Cookie_Monster

Goldstein wrote: »

.Enterprise is just an upside-down Akira!

only if you quint your eyes funny...

Myrddin

The Akira is damn ugly ship I think