Did you get hit by your parents?

Millicent

stovelid wrote: »

I use these methods too - most of the time successfully.

Have you ever been in a very occasional situation where all of the above fail?

I can honestly say I haven't. Not saying we're perfect with him but it has never come to that point. The only time we came close to a smack was when he was about four or five, I think, and he ran right out into the road in front of us without looking for traffic. His daddy grabbed him by the hand and pulled him back and shouted at him. I explained to him what happened to me when I was hit by a car at that age and how injured I got. I'm kind of glad he didn't get a smack because that would have been more to do with our shock and fear than actually ensuring he didn't repeat it. Seemed to do the trick as he's never done it again.

stovelid wrote: »

If not, do you think that your child is a perfect template for all other children, especially of both genders and temperaments?

God no, of course I don't. As I said, he's the sort of child who responds to aggression with aggression so there is absolutely no point in yelling at him as he gets brazen and lippy with it. I know other kids who get shouted at and stop what they're doing. All depends on the child. I still say smacking is a last resort but there *may* be instances for it. My sister, for example, used to lightly tap her son on the hand when he was non-verbal for certain things. That worked for him. It wasn't a regular thing.

stovelid wrote: »

Do you think that every parent on the thread that condones light smacking just beats up their kids at every possible opportunity?

Nope and have never said otherwise. I would know people who only smack though and I think that's wrong, even when it's not hard slaps. I don't think smacking should take the place of other disciplines that aim to teach the child through reasoning and logic. We've discussed this before though, IIRC, and we agreed on this, did we not?

Millicent

Paddy Cow wrote: »

[/LIST]
The only problem with all these methods is that they require patience and perserverance from the parents. If you put a child in time out/remove toys, then you have to listen to them whining. Some parents simply give in and use a slap as it is instantaneous punishment.

Parents who give the odd slap are not monsters. As has been said on this thread by many people, they got a slap now and again but they have no scars from it as even at the time they knew they had crossed a line and deserved it. It's the parents who use slapping as the only means of punishment and who use it too often and for minor things that cause problems. Their kids only know slapping as a means of establishing boundaries and when they are outside the house they have absolutely no respect for authority as they know that other adults cannot slap them.

I agree (see ^^^ that post ). 100% in fact.

wexford awake

wexford awake wrote: »

It's hard to explain. They were consistant, but there was no fear on my part, util I met that Sargeant. If I snook out during a grounding they would extend it, but did I take notice, not one bit. Now I look at my friend's parenting methods and they are nearly indentical to my parents. They were like a set of 21st century parents stuck in the 90's. All my friends were smacked as kids. I used to be over at their houses and Isee it with my own to eyes. No matter what punishment I was given it didn't matter.

sorry I didn't read your whole question. No there wasn't any reason only a lack of fear, no adhd or anything like that. I am now in a very good job, went to college etc. Maybe these days the way kids have so many priveleges, the removal of these may be a medium, however I do think the threat of a good smack needs to be there. The kid must know that a smack may very well be on the way if the don't cop on

Millicent

wexford awake wrote: »

It's hard to explain. They were consistant, but there was no fear on my part, util I met that Sargeant. If I snook out during a grounding they would extend it, but did I take notice, not one bit. Now I look at my friend's parenting methods and they are nearly indentical to my parents. They were like a set of 21st century parents stuck in the 90's. All my friends were smacked as kids. I used to be over at their houses and Isee it with my own to eyes. No matter what punishment I was given it didn't matter.

Thanks for the answer.

But how do you explain a brother like mine who was smacked and was the very same as you? (Seriously, I could be reading about him in your examples of your behaviour!) I would think that just highlights that there is no "one size fits all" punishment available?

Millicent

wexford awake wrote: »

sorry I didn't read your whole question. No there wasn't any reason only a lack of fear, no adhd or anything like that. I am now in a very good job, went to college etc. Maybe these days the way kids have so many priveleges, the removal of these may be a medium, however I do think the threat of a good smack needs to be there. The kid must know that a smack may very well be on the way if the don't cop on

But is fear a good enough motivation for good behaviour? I feared getting a smack. I didn't respect anyone for it. I definitely never learned why what I was doing was wrong; I just learned to be quite docile and subservient. I would rather someone have explained to me why what I was doing was wrong, tbh.

wexford awake

Millicent wrote: »

Thanks for the answer.

But how do you explain a brother like mine who was smacked and was the very same as you? (Seriously, I could be reading about him in your examples of your behaviour!) I would think that just highlights that there is no "one size fits all" punishment available?

Yeah and it may very well if his priveleges were removed then that might be his lesson learned. every kid is different. it depends on their environment and other factor I suppose,

stovelid

Surely if a smack on the arse is so traumatic to a child, the threat of same amounts to pretty much the same thing?

Liam Byrne

stovelid wrote: »

Surely if a smack on the arse is so traumatic to a child, the threat of same amounts to pretty much the same thing?

Any psychologist will tell you that threats that are never carried out lose their impact.

libertyvalance

well..my mam bashed me most days,heel ,fist,poker,sticks,name calling and i was the youngest boy..maybe thats why i beat my wife and kids for 20yrs,i go psycho now n again. kids love me and my is still with me because i have good points .my mother was a violent bitch..and i think cos i forgave her everybody should do the same for me...dont hit your kids,its eats you up inside

teishen

I remember being hit now and then when I crossed the line with my younger siblings, either hitting them myself or upsetting them to the point of hysteria (Jesus, I was a right little ****. :pac:)

Most of all I remember being grabbed on the arm if I was being especially bratty and being told NO. Hell, I'm 22 years of age and when either of my parents suddenly grip my arm I know I've crossed a line and to quieten down. :P

I have to say though, as the eldest of 4 children, if we were ever smacked we knew exactly why. I do know my Mam did say that when we were smacked as toddlers for being bold it would always be lightly and on the nappy. The sound and ritual of being smacked would shock us, it never physically hurt.

Liam Byrne

Millicent wrote: »

But is fear a good enough motivation for good behaviour? I feared getting a smack. I didn't respect anyone for it. I definitely never learned why what I was doing was wrong; I just learned to be quite docile and subservient. I would rather someone have explained to me why what I was doing was wrong, tbh.

Almost a separate debate. No punishment - of any sort - should ever be applied without linking it to both the reason and the reasoning.

e.g. Shouting while cheering on a team isn't naughty

Shouting while mam has a headache or granny is sleeping is

There's no way to "program" the difference between the two "similar" actions without emphasising the reasoning.

That's basic common-sense parenting, regardless of methods of discipline used.

Missmiddleton

I still have issues with the wooden spoon. While i accept children need discipline surely fear isn't the best way to achieve that

Fuinseog

Millicent wrote: »

Not smacking does not mean no discipline.

we tend to use american methods such as grounding or time outs, both which have limited affect.
some parents cannot discipline their children at any level, which is not healthy

smacking encouraged respect and respect is lacking in our society. spare the rod, spoil the child.

Freddie59

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Fairly default attempt to derail a line of posting with regard to threads on parenting.

Asking if you are a parent is quite valid to the thread. There are always the keyboard experts who think they know it all. And there are others, like me, who have experienced it from start to finish.

You can take both feet out of your mouth know.:)

Freddie59

Missmiddleton wrote: »

I still have issues with the wooden spoon. While i accept children need to discipline surely fear isn't the best way to achieve that

I would agree 100%.

Fuinseog

wexford awake wrote: »

Hi, just came across this smacking debate. Some posters don't really know what they are on about. Let me tell you about my childhood. My parents were only like a pack of hippies who didn't believe in smacking. Thus I ran wild hurting people. I once broke my female cousins nose because we fought over a football match. I was a walking nightmare. I knew no boundaries. Yes they did ground me, but I would only sneak out. Grounding in 90's Ireland was nearly unheard of. My very well behaving buds never experienced it and they only saw it in home and away. My biggest and by far best lesson ever came when I was about 10. One day I was on my way home from school and I decided to let the air out of my Neighbours tyre that was parked outside of the pub. Well the local sargeant caught me and he tore in to me. He belte me across the ass, back, legs, you name it, and he finished it off with a well and truly deserved kick up my ass I was in tears and shock as I never experienced such discipline in my life. From that day on my outlook totally changed, because I knew if I acted the maggot around the place that sgt would give me another few smacks. You know what I thank him for it cuz if that moment never happened I would have ended up in prison, and I have no doubt about that. The saddest thing is that I had to get the discipline I needed from an adult outside the home instead of getting it from the two people whose job it was to give to me. I can tell all yee anti smackers, that when I have kids they will feel the back of my hand against their legs when they step out of line.

that guard would be out of a job if he did that today and delinquents will push the boundaries and surprise themselves at much they will get away with. personally, I think kids are looking for direction and adults are either afraid or do not know how to give it.

Nana Wan

I never get it, but I saw my best friend's parents hitting him with a 2-inch(diameter. In my memory it was) wooden stick. The stick broke at last.

Yve

I don't get the psychology behind parents hitting their kids for hitting fellow kids.

getting a smack with the 'don't hit people' warning accompanying it ??

huh ?

stoeger

My dad kicked me from one end of the house to the other several times he even broke my nose for calling mam a prostitute when i was 11 and I didn't know what it ment he also had a sally stick and didn't spare it . It carried on till I was 18 when after he beat my sister I went to the shed and got the chain saw and followed him around the yard . he never hit me or my sisters again that what 22 years ago

SV

There's a difference between a few slaps and being beat in fairness.
I was slapped a good bit, did me no harm..tbh I knew I was going to be punished that way and didn't really care, just hardened me up!

kids these days are soft.

NewHillel

Yve wrote: »

I don't get the psychology behind parents hitting their kids for hitting fellow kids.

getting a smack with the 'don't hit people' warning accompanying it ??

huh ?

It didn't do me any harm (that I know of).
Toughens them up (kids today are soft).
Teaches them respect (for anyone bigger/tougher/stronger than themselves).
My Da/Ma hit me, I love my Da/Ma, must be OK...

We all find it tough to question our core beliefs, however randomly we picked them up. I grew up in a culture where we were all 'disciplined'. The 'Wooden Spoon' was used (rarely) at home and our teachers had many wonderful means to 'make a man' out of us. If you were tough, or smart, you survived. Less able kids, or kids whose parents were unable to intercede for them, were destroyed for life.

It took me years to come to the position that hitting children is never acceptable. It meant that I had to accept that my own parents, whom I loved dearly, were wrong. I agree that we have a discipline problem in society. I would argue that much more support is required for parents and teachers to help with this. I would also support financial sanctions against parents who take no responsibility for their offspring.

It's not an easy one and, as a parent myself, I understand the argument that a 'smack' is justified in certain circumstances. Now that my children are reared, I'm very glad I never did this. I have a very close relationship with both and I believe that this would not be the same, had I disciplined them physically.

RussellTuring

margio wrote: »

How dare you criticise any parent that goes to the trouble of smacking their children, and refer to them as being abusers. I Was smacked when I was a Kid and I love and respect them for bothering to instill discipline in me. i cas bring my kids anywhere from mcdonalds to any shop and they don't misbehave there, because they know the consequences if they do. But other kids whose PARENTS leave them run amuck shouting while the sit and watch and smile while other people are trying to eat. First and foremost there the ones that need a good hiding.

I'd appreciate it if you reread my post and considered the context since you seem to have misinterpreted it. My comment about abuse was referring to a specific post and not the issue in general. I can perfectly understand you loving and respecting your parents if you feel they did a good job of raising you but do you honestly love them for smacking you? As stated several times already by many people, discipline and slapping are not synonymous.


If the only reason your children behave is out of fear of being physically punished, then I don't think they really understand why they are not disruptive; if they do, then the smacking seems unnecessary.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Laughable.

Maybe we should do away with personal testimonies in court cases as well.

If the personal testimonies are being used to make a general argument then yes, we should. However, they're usually used to gather details on specific events. I hope you were being facetious here.

HovaBaby

On occasion. For example when I got a yellow card from primary school, my Dad hit me 7/8 times on the buttocks. He hit me 3/4 times with a belt in all my childhood. He was drunk one night and punched me when I got muck on my brand new uniform. I was a big child and always needed stretchable pants, but these were my first pants that didn't need to stretch.

But it wasn't a regular occurence, there was no wooden spoon on top of the TV at all times.

margio

RussellTuring wrote: »

I'd appreciate it if you reread my post and considered the context since you seem to have misinterpreted it. My comment about abuse was referring to a specific post and not the issue in general. I can perfectly understand you loving and respecting your parents if you feel they did a good job of raising you but do you honestly love them for smacking you? As stated several times already by many people, discipline and slapping are not synonymous.


If the only reason your children behave is out of fear of being physically punished, then I don't think they really understand why they are not disruptive; if they do, then the smacking seems unnecessary.




If the personal testimonies are being used to make a general argument then yes, we should. However, they're usually used to gather details on specific events. I hope you were being facetious here.

And you would somehow know. Have you letters after your name or somethig?. Yes I have issues with parents who leave their kids run amuc in shops, restaurants, other peoples houses etc knocking stuff over. It is damn disrecpectul. It's not the children's fault. Our generation when in childhood never ran wild in these afore mentioned places, because we were thought respect. My parents never abused me, or I have never abused my kids. There is a massive difference (no comparison in my opinion) between giving a child a smack on the bum, legs or hands to some stories been told here.People on the anti smacking side seem to think that smacking a child on the bum is the same as taking a belt to them or punching them. Those examples are abuse that should be left behind in generations past.

RussellTuring

margio wrote: »

And you would somehow know. Have you letters after your name or somethig?. Yes I have issues with parents who leave their kids run amuc in shops, restaurants, other peoples houses etc knocking stuff over. It is damn disrecpectul. It's not the children's fault. Our generation when in childhood never ran wild in these afore mentioned places, because we were thought respect. My parents never abused me, or I have never abused my kids. There is a massive difference (no comparison in my opinion) between giving a child a smack on the bum, legs or hands to some stories been told here.People on the anti smacking side seem to think that smacking a child on the bum is the same as taking a belt to them or punching them. Those examples are abuse that should be left behind in generations past.

It's clear from this post you don't actually want to discuss anything but instead want me to accept your argument without you even examining mine. Unless you can respond to my points coherently as I believe I've done with yours, go talk with someone else.

NewHillel

margio wrote: »

And you would somehow know. Have you letters after your name or somethig?. Yes I have issues with parents who leave their kids run amuc in shops, restaurants, other peoples houses etc knocking stuff over. It is damn disrecpectul. It's not the children's fault. Our generation when in childhood never ran wild in these afore mentioned places, because we were thought respect. My parents never abused me, or I have never abused my kids. There is a massive difference (no comparison in my opinion) between giving a child a smack on the bum, legs or hands to some stories been told here.People on the anti smacking side seem to think that smacking a child on the bum is the same as taking a belt to them or punching them. Those examples are abuse that should be left behind in generations past.

I have issues with those parents, too. However, respect cuts both ways. Smacking children teaches them that 'might is right' - they might obey out of fear, but it doesn't engender respect.

I totally agree with you that there are degrees of physical punishment. In my opinion only a parent should ever administer corporal punishment, no matter how mild. Any such action by a third party should be treated as an assault.

Liam Byrne

RussellTuring wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Laughable.

Maybe we should do away with personal testimonies in court cases as well.

If the personal testimonies are being used to make a general argument then yes, we should. However, they're usually used to gather details on specific events. I hope you were being facetious here.

I was, and note that I was outlining what someone else's view extrapolated to.

There was a statement made re smacking leading to learning disabilities and a tendency for violence.

As I said, if even one occurrence disproves that theory, the theory is disproved.

And I sincerely doubt that I am unique.

margio

it is you that is shoving your opinions in my face. If people want to use smacking as a discipline tool, then nobody has the right to condemn them. I respect your views and I will not tell you how to raise your children, and I expect the same. I'm not turning around to you and saying that the rising crime rate in Ireland is related to a realxation of discilpline methods, which alot of people I know blame) I Just stated my opinion. For your information I have tried (and still do ) other disciplinary methods with my kids. So I am open to your argument. I just believe that smacking should not be viewed as abuse. Nobody is saying that kids should be hurt or injured, just a small tapto get their attention. I don't believe in hurting kids. I Know a 30 year old woman who still resents her parents for grounding her, and in the process stoping from going to a concert when she was a teeny bobber. Se is still going on about it roughly 15 years on. Now obviously she would have been too old for a smack back then, but my point is every one will resent their parents for something, and example being that they were not the favourite,, which I think is more damaging to a child that a few slaps.

sparkthatbled

Got a few smacks now and then when i deserved them. I know it's possible to bring up a good child without physical discipline but i think that depends on the child, some need the threat of it, some need a constant reminder. Example: Some young mother of a (roughly) 8-10 year old tearaway on my road. Regularly see her pleading and bargaining with him to get him to come in for bed/dinner and he just makes a show of her in front of the whole street, effing and blinding at her. I can tell you I wouldn't have been allowed carry on like that, i would have been told, not asked, then warned, then a clip round the ear.
Kids in general these days don't seem to be taught respect of any kind. They run out into the road without looking and if you beep them they will either move very slowly while shouting words at you that you'd nearly have to look up in the urban dictionary or some will stand still or lie down in front of your car for a few minutes, just for the laugh. I don't live in a council estate, or a rough area, but it will be once these little terrors hit their teens and start roaming. I'm just glad i'll be long gone by then!

So in summary, is hitting necessary? No, but in most cases there needs to be a credible threat.

Abi

margio wrote: »

If people want to use smacking as a discipline tool, then nobody has the right to condemn them.

I beg to differ.

Definition of physical abuse


Physical abuse can involve:

(i) severe physical punishment;
(ii) beating, slapping, hitting or kicking;
(iii) pushing, shaking or throwing;
(iv) pinching, biting, choking or hair-pulling;
(v) terrorising with threats;
(vi) observing violence;
(vii) use of excessive force in handling;
(viii) deliberate poisoning;
(ix) suffocation;
(x) fabricated/induced illness
(xi) allowing or creating a substantial risk of significant harm to a child.

I've highlighted two that seems to be causing some confusion, but both are equally wrong.

Source: http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Children_and_Family_Services/childrenfirst/concerns/

margio

Abi wrote: »

I beg to differ.




I've highlighted two that seems to be causing some confusion, but both are equally wrong.

Source: http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Children_and_Family_Services/childrenfirst/concerns/

I respect you opinion, that you beg to differ. However the vital word is CAN. It CAN involve slapping and hitting. I may remind you that smacking is legal, in the context of a smack across the back legs, buttocks, hands etc. I would imagine that slapping a child in the face is considered abuse (I hope it is). It is allowed, provided it causes no physical harm.

margio

I meant the slap across the lower parts of the Body is allowed provided it causes no physical harm

Abi

margio wrote: »

I respect you opinion, that you beg to differ. However the vital word is CAN. It CAN involve slapping and hitting. I may remind you that smacking is legal, in the context of a smack across the back legs, buttocks, hands etc. I would imagine that slapping a child in the face is considered abuse (I hope it is). It is allowed, provided it causes no physical harm.

You're using that word as an out for your condoning slapping. It's not right regardless of where you're doing the slapping.

margio wrote: »

I meant the slap across the lower parts of the Body is allowed provided it causes no physical harm

What about the emotional? I remember feeling hatrid towards my parents when I was slapped. It happened infrequently, I wasn't a 'bold' child. In adulthood and in hindsight I see my parents as under a lot of financial and day to day stress, with young children close in age. They bit off more than they could chew if you ask me, and the result was stressed and angry parents. I would prefer if I was sat down and talked to, followed by a grounding or confiscation of a toy or whatever. I was met with anger instead, and was left with resentment.

The word 'can' in that title isn't there to serve as an excuse for an exception.

Fuinseog

stoeger wrote: »

My dad kicked me from one end of the house to the other several times he even broke my nose for calling mam a prostitute when i was 11 and I didn't know what it ment he also had a sally stick and didn't spare it . It carried on till I was 18 when after he beat my sister I went to the shed and got the chain saw and followed him around the yard . he never hit me or my sisters again that what 22 years ago

most parents slapped bottom, leg or even face, which hurt like hell but left no visible marks. a broken nose is another matter.

Liam Byrne

Fuinseog wrote: »

stoeger wrote: »

My dad kicked me from one end of the house to the other several times he even broke my nose for calling mam a prostitute when i was 11 and I didn't know what it ment he also had a sally stick and didn't spare it . It carried on till I was 18 when after he beat my sister I went to the shed and got the chain saw and followed him around the yard . he never hit me or my sisters again that what 22 years ago

most parents slapped bottom, leg or even face, which hurt like hell but left no visible marks. a broken nose is another matter.

+1 to this, but even within that I'd put a caveat - it shouldn't even "hurt like hell"

A quick sharp smack - on the hopefully very rare occasion that it is required - should merely sting or have the shock factor, nothing more. If a child has a nappy on we're probably talking about only the shock factor due to padding.

Broken noses or hurting "like hell" are not on, and a broken nose implies a slap or punch to an area that should be off-limits anyway.

Likewise I would suggest that no-one should smack a child while actually mad (or shocked, if it's a safety issue) because it can be harder to control a "suitable" level of force when emotional/stressed - I actually think this is where most of the pros v cons people differ, with those subjected to emotion-driven, unmeasured "discipline" bearing the scars.

cock robin

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I did.

I think it was unnecessary adult-on-child violence.

Hitting children is stupid.

What say y'all?

My mother kept a rolling pin in one holster and a slipper in the other and killed me with both.

limklad

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

i had many a wooden spoon hit on my arse

didn't do me any harm, although it also didn't stop me from doing whatever it was that caused me to have wooden spoons slapped off my arse

I got hit more times that I could count with and without a genuine reasons with the wooden Spoon as a child. I got blamed for things going missing or presumption of doing bad things. The behaviour by my parents was so bad, that their over reaction shocked both set of my grandparents, while I survived, It left me to believe that child abuse no matter what reason is unjustified.

The Only time I lied growing up as a child was to wrongly admit to take the blame for things I never did, in order to stop the beating and abuse, as to why to day I whole heartily believe that evidence from Torture is never accurate or true, as the Torturer is never happy until they get the information they want as the abused will do or say anything the torturer wants to stop the pain.

In my teens when I was physical bigger, the physical aspect of the abuse stop, more so out of fear of possible retaliation. While not afraid to do chores, as I did many including alot of farming, I used to do rebel by refusing to do things for them, because of their bad behaviour and abuse. My Mother and Father are no longer part of my Life now as an adult as they whole heartily refuse to accept the wrong they did.

My Grandparents never hit me or abused nor degrade me growing up and were always happy to see me, yet I never seriously misbehave with them and always helped them out when they need my help, and they are fondly part of my life today. For any minor offences by me growing up in my grandparent presence was dealt without punishment and was properly and calmly talked through, and was never brought up over and over again in a fit and was never re-punished again, unlike my abusing mother.
My Grandparent taught me to do thing properly unlike my parents who punish me for doing jobs badly that I never have done before or not doing them they way my parent want it done when they never showed me the way to do it in the first place.

The reason why I fondly love my grandparents is they always positively engage with me throughout my life. While not perfect, I am a better person because of them, not because of my bad parents who used wooden spoons as a weapon of punishment amongst other things. My Grandparents were not perfect either and had their own faults in their personality, but they behaviour towards me and others was brilliant and positively engaging. To this day as always in the past, I will bend over backwards for my remaining living grandparent as I did for my deceased grandparents when they were living. I still call to my deceased grandparents and other relatives and neighbour graves.

Today I feel sorry for my siblings children, for I know my siblings will lie through their teeth as I witness so many times to cover their wronged arses for they cannot see the wrong for using weapons to punish children. I see the same hot and cold behaviour in various degrees and poor mentality in my siblings as was part of my parents personality.

Fuinseog

what do you do with a four year old who has a temper tantrum in public and refuses to obey instructions from parents?. i notice a lot of parents cannot deal with this situation.

Fuinseog

cock robin wrote: »

My mother kept a rolling pin in one holster and a slipper in the other and killed me with both.

and you are still alive and do not need to see a therapist.

maybe it is a coincidence but since parents stopped hitting their kids we have seen a rise in kids who know know boundaries and do as they please.

grounding and whatever other american punishments we have adopted are largely ineffective. I am sure some people would argue that grounding is a form of torture and therefore abuse.

margio

limklad wrote: »

I got hit more times that I could count with and without a genuine reasons with the wooden Spoon as a child. I got blamed for things going missing or presumption of doing bad things. The behaviour by my parents was so bad, that their over reaction shocked both set of my grandparents, while I survived, It left me to believe that child abuse no matter what reason is unjustified.

The Only time I lied growing up as a child was to wrongly admit to take the blame for things I never did, in order to stop the beating and abuse, as to why to day I whole heartily believe that evidence from Torture is never accurate or true, as the Torturer is never happy until they get the information they want as the abused will do or say anything the torturer wants to stop the pain.

In my teens when I was physical bigger, the physical aspect of the abuse stop, more so out of fear of possible retaliation. While not afraid to do chores, as I did many including alot of farming, I used to do rebel by refusing to do things for them, because of their bad behaviour and abuse. My Mother and Father are no longer part of my Life now as an adult as they whole heartily refuse to accept the wrong they did.

My Grandparents never hit me or abused nor degrade me growing up and were always happy to see me, yet I never seriously misbehave with them and always helped them out when they need my help, and they are fondly part of my life today. For any minor offences by me growing up in my grandparent presence was dealt without punishment and was properly and calmly talked through, and was never brought up over and over again in a fit and was never re-punished again, unlike my abusing mother.
My Grandparent taught me to do thing properly unlike my parents who punish me for doing jobs badly that I never have done before or not doing them they way my parent want it done when they never showed me the way to do it in the first place.

The reason why I fondly love my grandparents is they always positively engage with me throughout my life. While not perfect, I am a better person because of them, not because of my bad parents who used wooden spoons as a weapon of punishment amongst other things. My Grandparents were not perfect either and had their own faults in their personality, but they behaviour towards me and others was brilliant and positively engaging. To this day as always in the past, I will bend over backwards for my remaining living grandparent as I did for my deceased grandparents when they were living. I still call to my deceased grandparents and other relatives and neighbour graves.

Today I feel sorry for my siblings children, for I know my siblings will lie through their teeth as I witness so many times to cover their wronged arses for they cannot see the wrong for using weapons to punish children. I see the same hot and cold behaviour in various degrees and poor mentality in my siblings as was part of my parents personality.

Sorry, before I'm going to write, what I am going to, but Grandparents (most of the time) are significant figures in a childs life that showers the Grandchild with love. They had their family reared and it was time to relax and mellow out .They are part of the child extended family as is Aunts and Uncles. It was not their job to discipline you as they saw it. However, the way you described your Parents, it is highly possible that when they were kids themselves, your Grandparents sanctioned them in the same way, and probably worse, allowing for a shift in generations and attitudes.

limklad

Abi wrote: »

I wasn't a 'bold' child. In adulthood and in hindsight I see my parents as under a lot of financial and day to day stress, with young children close in age. They bit off more than they could chew if you ask me, and the result was stressed and angry parents. I would prefer if I was sat down and talked to, followed by a grounding or confiscation of a toy or whatever. I was met with anger instead, and was left with resentment.

The word 'can' in that title isn't there to serve as an excuse for an exception.

I often heard of parents using other excuses for hitting or mistreating their child. Excuses and blame range from Alcohol to Financial to day to day stress and other abuses they receive themselves to excuse themselves when the amount of abuse they give when punishing their children. They meant to be the grown up person not the child who take the adult amount of abuse and punishment. The Children are not at fault for day to day stress or financial stress of their parents or over reaction of their parents. Many children are too immature to understand but that is not an excuse to punish them harshly.

Over the last 30 years, especially in the 80's, I have seen many poor parents with loads of kids who have very little money and are under great stress who treat their kids with dignity and love. My Grandparents were not rich and were under severe financial strain in comparison to us today even in this deep recession. My Grandparents truly knew Austerity.

One of my grandparents raised lots of kids on her own in a time and during a time when the state did not give out payments as they do today such as single parents allowance. The State refused any financial help including the Widows pension and she had to deal with all the financial burden stresses that single parent with a large family to raise by herself throughout the fifties and sixties. She love all her kids and treat them all equally with dignity. She did her best without abuse towards her children for what little she had.

limklad

MagicSean wrote: »

My parents did a fine job disciplining me.

Stockholm syndrome comes to mind.

Stockholm Syndrome is an apparently paradoxical psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.

Liam Byrne

limklad wrote: »

MagicSean wrote: »

My parents did a fine job disciplining me.

Stockholm syndrome comes to mind.

Seriously ? You're telling someone who loves their parents and is happy with how they were brought up that their relationship is comparable to a kidnapper and their victim ?

There are lots of people on here with very unfortunate stories of abuse, and they deserve sympathy and help to deal with the mental scars of that, but the level of projection is a more than a little extreme, as is the blurring of lines between slapping on the bum, over-zealous or emotive slapping, horrendous beatings and broken noses and beatings with instruments.

I think the thread is dealing with far too
many wildly different issues at once to allow for rational debate.

daigo75

Yve wrote: »

I don't get the psychology behind parents hitting their kids for hitting fellow kids.

getting a smack with the 'don't hit people' warning accompanying it ??

huh ?

Have you actually talked to my mother? That's precisely what she was doing...

stovelid

I assume that the smacking to prevent smacking analogy is brought up because people are presumably enamoured by its supposed cleverness. It's admittedly a decent but still slightly flawed analogy.

For example, if your child smacks you, you might threaten to smack them in return. Indeed, this is what will probably happen in real life anyway.

I would personally think that your child seeing you strike other people arbitrarily as far worse than an occasional light smack administered within a framework of multiple warnings/other punishments and when the child knows they are loved despite punishment.

The whole notion that a parent cannot prohibit behaviour in children that they (the parents) themselves do is a bit dodgy. Like raising your voice to a child that is shouting and screaming or making your children observe a bedtime when you are staying up to think of two immediate examples.

limklad

Sky King wrote: »

I dunno man, you know when you see a kid having a complete spa attack in the supermarket because it wants a golly bar or whatever - do you think if that kid got a punch in the face every time it did that, it would continue to behave in this way?

For more helpful parenting tips, PM me.

This Tactic came in useful to deal with a out of control child that I was minding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slb_vfWlUAQ

Every threat from an extremely out of control child was responded by me to go ahead carry out your threat, I just billed your parents for any damage caused. I was always able to deal with these children as they do not expect anyone who stands up to themselves and remain calm. It confuses even the brightest spark out of control child as they do not expect people who been accused in public to remain calm and not be embarrassed. I do not let them hold control over me. I also have another method of dealing with physical abusive kids, I like to call it tickle torture. It has never let me down.

I even got a older physical abusive kid to want to learn how to cook for himself. He now loves to cook for the family as he can now help to choose what to make and eat. Without realising it he now taking some responsibility for himself and for younger ones without been a pain in the hole. I never use abuse as a method for dealing with kids, I just try to work them out, without looking for revenge or vent any frustration on them when they react badly.

The vast majority of kids are easy to deal with and they need something for fun or something interesting to occupy their minds to release the boredom. Like ourselves, they like to be listen to and I like to challenge them to think about things and give them little history lessons that they can understand without forcing it on them with threats. To deal with kids you need to learn patience and to be always calm when interacting with them like you are when dealing with adults. If we as Adults are not Patience nor calm how can the kids learn. They learn from us. You need to have some emotional maturity. Without it you may win one or some or most battles and end up losing the war in the relationship, with it there is little or no battles and therefore no war and the relationship with them is on solid footing and they grow up happier without been a spoilt child.

limklad

margio wrote: »

Sorry, before I'm going to write, what I am going to, but Grandparents (most of the time) are significant figures in a childs life that showers the Grandchild with love. They had their family reared and it was time to relax and mellow out .They are part of the child extended family as is Aunts and Uncles. It was not their job to discipline you as they saw it. However, the way you described your Parents, it is highly possible that when they were kids themselves, your Grandparents sanctioned them in the same way, and probably worse, allowing for a shift in generations and attitudes.

Growing up in school not many of my classmates like their grandparents. Most did not like to visit their grandparents as they said was too old to understand them as kids and they were too boring etc. Most of them had far better parents than mine and many of them were from poorer families and they loved their parents.

My Mother told us blatant lies about her childhood, It was the typical classic manipulation similar to other abusers. My Uncles and Aunts on my mother side told a completely different story of childhood to her. They were completely stunt when I and other sibling told them what she told us. All my Uncles and Aunts stories matched over the years and never changed not anything added like my mother stories or more precisely rants. They did however told of the true reality of my mother behaviour throughout her life. They did confront her about it and she react badly when she found out that I and other sibling repeat the stories that she told. My grandmother never hit her no matter how bold any of them were. She was often bold, according to them. They all repeat my grandmother saying, "We are responsible for our own actions and behaviour in life".
After my grandfather died, all of the older aunts and uncles took up lots of chores on the small farm after school and help my grandmother about the house. No one was without shoes for school and she (my mother) was actually the lazy one, not the one who did all of the work. They all mention the chores and who was responsible for each chore. She could not hide the date of my grandfather death and her own date of birth. I manage to prove this as my mother was actually 4 when my grandfather died, so there was no way she could do any of the chores when her father died and by the time she was old enough to be able to work on the farm, my 2 older uncles took over the farming completely. She always wanted to the centre of attention or take over a conversation or cause a row or get involved in other rows, that they all agreed.

They all said my grandmother nearly worked herself to death to look after them. She always sent them to school even if she badly needed help at home even when she was sick, as she knew education was far more important. My Grandmother always listen to them when they spoke to her. They all agreed that, It was my mother who complained alot for doing the simplest of household chores never mind the farm work.

As for My Father, while he did get hit as a child for his boldness, as the uncles did also, it still never fixed his bad attitude. My Uncles are consistent that beating was not unfair (i.e. non offence or perceived wronged) and punishment stop at that and never repeat for an offence until the events they witness against me or my other siblings who did not suck up to them. In fairness it was my mother who drove the perceived wronged offence but he did carry out the punishment. His childhood was never like what my parents did to me on that they agreed from what they saw. They all witness my parents behaviour and all agreed that they were way over the top and out of control when they saw some of their fury. They all witness the lighter side of it. My Father did not have a good relationship with any of them and cringe when he had to attend any family occasion. It was not the type of cringe of an abused person and he always believed that he can never do no wrong and is always right. He did not like people looking into his life or making critical comments about it, especially from my strong willed grandmother (His mother) who did not spare any feelings on what she said. He was no stranger to respond to her and was not in kind words.

My Grandparents were never alone because they were so far ahead when it comes to fairness and well able to take criticism unlike my parents who start a row over anything small or perceived wronged. As my father mother and elderly neighbour used to say to me as a kid for they knew what was going on: "Stick and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
As I said before my grandparents are not perfect, but they were the ones who put me on the straight and narrow. If is was not for them, I would definitely took revenge on my parents during my teens and I would be in Jail not them for serial assaults and abuse.

Today my Parents lost all their control and power and are separated due to their long marriage of fighting looking for dominance over everyone and on each other and are now alone as all the kids have fled. A lonely life result because of the past abuse and refusal to take responsibility for their actions that they dished out. I never visit nor responds to their abusive or manipulative messages as I do not have to desire to respond nor care for them. I have a life of my own and my responsibilities to care for.

Abi

A lot of people here are quite defensive about giving their children the odd smack / slap. While I'm not in favour of it myself, you can't deny that the attitude that it is okay has stemmed from previous generations. In previous times life was harder, bigger families, increased stress in a behind-the-times very catholic country.

Realistically speaking, families are smaller now, though the stresses have changed. Two parent working families to afford over priced homes, or some struggling now with one or two parents out of work. I can understand when everything else seems to be falling down around them, the smallest thing can cause them to blow a fuse.

I'd like to think that those who do walk out of this thread defensively would give the matter a bit of thought. Something to try out the non-slapping approach maybe?

I recall having to mind my niece not too long ago, and to be honest, she's quite a little madam. Her mum and the husband split up a while back, and she seems to be killing her with kindness and a lot of lee-way in terms of behaviour. I know my sister loves her daughter, but is definitely compensating for the void the father not being in the picture. The child is a very fussy eater, and after a visit to the doctor the health nurse became involved because she felt she was under weight. My sister was defensive about it, but I know she felt sad about it too.

So when I had some free time, and my sister needed a minder for a few days the little one came to stay with me. Well anything like the attitude, she's only 3! If she wasn't ignoring my requests to do things, she'd throw herself on the floor while staring at me (looking for a reaction). I ignored her tantrums, stepping over her, going about my business. If she ignored my instruction to eat I told her she couldn't have her dolly back until she did. Of course there were tears, fits on the floor etc. But I told her we would keep doing this till it was all gone. I'd give her dinner the odd few seconds re-heat in the microwave so she wasn't eating cold food, but by god I got it into her. When she was done, I gave her a big round of applause, a hug, and told her I wasn't fighting with her, and I was very proud of her.

By the time my sister arrived back, the little one was sitting there eating spuds, chicken, peas, carrots with a bit of gravy. She wanted to know how I did it. A sing-song sung in whatever way you want to with the words "Chickens give us muscles, peas make you do bunny poos! spuds make us run faster, carrots give us bunny eyes!" Silly maybe, but she was eating and singing / clapping all the while.

TLDR version of the answer? Patience and love. It does get easier.

Liam Byrne

Abi wrote: »

A lot of people here are quite defensive about giving their children the odd smack / slap. While I'm not in favour of it myself, you can't deny that the attitude that it is okay has stemmed from previous generations. In previous times life was harder, bigger families, increased stress in a behind-the-times very catholic country.

Sorry, but that's farcical and prejudicial, implying that the odd smack / slap is somehow "backward".

The church and other parts of Ireland's history have a lot to answer for, but there's no need to pretend that there's a link. I am in no way religious and I detest the catholic mindset at this stage, and yet I not only disagree with you but I find the above extremely patronising.

Abi wrote: »

Realistically speaking, families are smaller now, though the stresses have changed. Two parent working families to afford over priced homes, or some struggling now with one or two parents out of work. I can understand when everything else seems to be falling down around them, the smallest thing can cause them to blow a fuse.

Irrelevant. We're not talking about (or proposing smacking for) non-existent issues; we're talking about actual discipline. And you have also conveniently completely overlooked the "me me me" attitude that kids and teens are exposed to nowadays......instead of being glad that Santa brought a present, they ask for "a playstation and a bike and a mobile phone" and many of them get infected by greed and materialism from TV and peer pressure and don't understand the words "no" or "can't", and refuse to show respect to other people or authority (not all, I emphasise - many decent kids have survived and thrived and buck that despicable trend) but many believe that the world revolves around them and no-one else matters.

Abi wrote: »

I'd like to think that those who do walk out of this thread defensively would give the matter a bit of thought. Something to try out the non-slapping approach maybe?

We've given it thought. You just don't like our conclusions. And suggesting that we haven't given it thought is further patronising guff.

Abi wrote: »

TLDR version of the answer? Patience and love. It does get easier.

So are you trying to suggest that parents who smack don't have patience and love ?

By all means have your views and stick to your own parenting methods - there's no issue there. By all means suggest alternatives.

But there is no excuse for being that patronising.

Abi

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry, but that's farcical and prejudicial, implying that the odd smack / slap is somehow "backward".

If you're so confident that it's farcial and prejudicial then the HSE have a freephone line you can ring and see what their take on it is. I provided a quote from their own website last night, and quoted the source. If you feel confident that you're correct, then you'll have no problem calling them.

The church and other parts of Ireland's history have a lot to answer for, but there's no need to pretend that there's a link. I am in no way religious and I detest the catholic mindset at this stage, and yet I not only disagree with you but I find the above extremely patronising.

Im sorry you feel that way. However I derive my opinion on the catholic connection because of how they felt a child should be punished in school. We can go there if you like?

My aim is not to be patronizing, I'm merely throwing out what I believe to be a contributing factor to physical punishment is the way to teach a child right from wrong in parents that see the need to project this with their hands.

Irrelevant. We're not talking about (or proposing smacking for) non-existent issues; we're talking about actual discipline. And you have also conveniently completely overlooked the "me me me" attitude that kids and teens are exposed to nowadays......instead of being glad that Santa brought a present, they ask for "a playstation and a bike and a mobile phone" and many of them get infected by greed and materialism from TV and peer pressure and don't understand the words "no" or "can't", and refuse to show respect to other people or authority (not all, I emphasise - many decent kids have survived and thrived and buck that despicable trend) but many believe that the world revolves around them and no-one else matters.

It's not irrelevant. I portrayed how I dealt with a specific situation. And before you go judging me for not having teenagers or inexperience, I'm of the opinion that if you get it right from the start, you won't have to suffer the consequences later, or as severely.

We've given it thought. You just don't like our conclusions. And suggesting that we haven't given it thought is further patronising guff.

I've told you that isn't my aim. I merely wondered is it something that you'd even consider.

So are you trying to suggest that parents who smack don't have patience and love ?

Love yes, patience no.

By all means have your views and stick to your own parenting methods - there's no issue there. By all means suggest alternatives.

I've suggested alternatives, that was all. You chose to take offense unfortunately.

But there is no excuse for being that patronising.

I'm genuinely sorry you feel I have been. I've a strong view one way. I'm also aware that a lot of parents still choose the slapping / smacking take, but I've quoted from the HSE website to those that do, it was an okay way of bringing up your children in the past- it isn't NOW.