Did you get hit by your parents?

Liam Byrne

Abi wrote: »

Im sorry you feel that way. However I derive my opinion on the catholic connection because of how they felt a child should be punished in school. We can go there if you like?

Why would we go there when you're the only one that reckons that there's a link ? You've got an "opinion" that I disagree with. That's life.

Abi wrote: »

My aim is not to be patronizing, I'm merely throwing out what I believe to be a contributing factor to physical punishment is the way to teach a child right from wrong in parents that see the need to project this with their hands.

It may not have been your intention, but that's how it came across. In spades.

Abi wrote: »

And before you go judging me for not having teenagers or inexperience, I'm of the opinion that if you get it right from the start, you won't have to suffer the consequences later, or as severely.

I wasn't going to judge you at all. And I agree with the second part. What I don't agree with is what methods are acceptable re "getting it right".

Abi wrote: »

I've told you that isn't my aim. I merely wondered is it something that you'd even consider.

Maybe, if

Abi wrote: »

Love yes, patience no.

Again, just an opinion.

Abi wrote: »

I've suggested alternatives, that was all. You chose to take offense unfortunately.

You suggested them via wondering out loud if there were "backward" influences, etc, etc, etc. That's not me "choosing" to take offence, it's implied in - and a core part of - your viewpoint.

Abi wrote: »

I'm genuinely sorry you feel I have been. I've a strong view one way. I'm also aware that a lot of parents still choose the slapping / smacking take, but I've quoted from the HSE website to those that do, it was an okay way of bringing up your children in the past- it isn't NOW.

IN YOUR OPINION. And - funnily enough - the extremes that we've read about on here were NEVER "an okay way of bringing up your children in the past". So nothing has changed.....except the ones who don't bring up their kids properly and make life hell for neighbours or those in shopping centres or whatever.

BTW - I wouldn't go relying on the HSE as a benchmark for or lectures re best practices, to be honest - reporters finding patient confidential files in bins, closing hospitals without having alternatives opened first, MRSA rampant, waiting lists miles long, etc ? Yeah, I'll listen to their definition of "best practices" alright :rolleyes:

Abi

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why would we go there when you're the only one that reckons that there's a link ? You've got an "opinion" that I disagree with. That's life.

I fully respect that. But if you look at it from the point of view that parents allowed their 'teachers' to punish them physically for so long you have to wonder. Whatever the priest said was solid, and no parents question it at one time. Again, we can dig deeper on this one if you like.

It may not have been your intention, but that's how it came across. In spades.

You've seen an opposing view, and you feel this way. Again Im sorry, but it is a discussion board were views and opinions are expected. Despite what you think, I am being respectful.

I wasn't going to judge you at all. And I agree with the second part. What I don't agree with is what methods are acceptable re "getting it right".

What I meant, and you don't disagree with is talking everything through with a child and punishments in methods other than physical.

When you give a child a slap, it will still live a pinkish mark on your child. Have you ever seen that mark on your child? If so, how does it make you feel?

N YOUR OPINION. And - funnily enough - the extremes that we've read about on here were NEVER "an okay way of bringing up your children in the past". So nothing has changed.....except the ones who don't bring up their kids properly and make life hell for neighbours or those in shopping centres or whatever.

Oh I'm very aware of the extremes mentioned. I was participating on this thread at an earlier stage, but I have to admit I find it a very frustrating and sad read.

I've taken a breather on it, and wondered about parents nowadays that view physical punishment as the way forward. Hence my quote last night.

BTW - I wouldn't go relying on the HSE as a benchmark for or lectures re best practices, to be honest.

And this is where I'm going to agree with you - in part. The rate that children are assessed in this country in terms of claims of physical abuse are.. appalling, horrific, shocking, disgraceful, disgusting, and if I could think of something else I'd throw it in there. You've got my vote on that one.

But, what I quoted are the guidelines, and legal. If you over step those guide lines and someone else reports it - it may effect your parental rights.

Though as you said indicated about them :rolleyes:

As far as the kids voices are concerned on these issues, they'll be in college and in counseling before / if they bother their arses listening to them.

Explains why their rules are so 'effective' tbh.

Liam Byrne

You've seen an opposing view, and you feel this way

No. I've seen the way the opposing view was phrased to try to label and associate my view with being "backward" and related to a corrupt church.

I'm not "feeling this way" because an opposing view exists, or because you've expressed it - I'm "feeling this way" because you suggested that my views are backwards, and you're now sounding like an amateur pop psychologist (which is almost as irritating as the original backwards claim).

Abi

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No. I've seen the way the opposing view was phrased to try to label and associate my view with being "backward" and related to a corrupt church.

Slapping a child has been around since the beginning of time, no doubt. But I'm saying in a previously predominant catholic country, it was a punishment enforced by the catholic schools. Parents supported this punishment in schools at one time. Why?

I'm not "feeling this way" because an opposing view exists, or because you've expressed it - I'm "feeling this way" because you suggested that my views are backwards, and you're now sounding like an amateur pop psychologist (which is almost as irritating as the original backwards claim).

Now you're just having silly digs. I disapprove of hitting children so my view is pop psychology. I know this was designed to muddy my view. Theres no need for it.

Liam Byrne

Abi wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote:

I'm not "feeling this way" because an opposing view exists, or because you've expressed it - I'm "feeling this way" because you suggested that my views are backwards, and you're now sounding like an amateur pop psychologist (which is almost as irritating as the original backwards claim).

Now you're just having silly digs. I disapprove of hitting children so my view is pop psychology. I know this was designed to muddy my view. Theres no need for it.

Not what I said at all. Read it again.

You claimed that I thought you were patronising because of your opposing view.

That is what I referred to as "pop psychology" - you incorrectly attributing my feeling to "what you said" rather than how you said it and how you justified it to yourself.

I have no problem encountering an opposing view about smacking kids (or any other topic) and debating it fairly and correctly.

I can also agree to disagree (which we will, as we may as well drop the topic here since we won't change each other's mind).

Neither of the above is the cause of me picking up on your being patronising - that was solely down to your phrasing and incorrect projection and way-off-the-mark guesswork.

Abi

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not what I said at all. Read it again.

You claimed that I thought you were patronising because of your opposing view.

You used the word patronizing several times through your posts. Read your own posts, I suggest.

That is what I referred to as "pop psychology" - you incorrectly attributing my feeling to "what you said" rather than how you said it and how you justified it to yourself.

I'm sorry but.. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I've tried to be respectful in your views, but all you're finding is offense. Your replies are becoming harder to read because you're seeing something that is not there, so I no longer know how to respond to you.

X1R

Yes I got slapped as a child but there was 3 brothers (I am the oldest by only 14 months) we broke our mothers and fathers hearts. I remember getting wise and between the 3 of us managed to burn all the wooden spoons. Forgot about the wooden hangers he night we pulled the telly off it's stand we remembered them Our family didn't have much money and rearing 3 hungry hoodlums would strain the virgin Mary's patience. I have a little fella now (2 years old) and just before the Christmas stuck the poker through the telly, I went nuts at the beginning but just laughed at the thoughts of what had gone on 25 odd years ago. I didn't slap him but it just brought it back

Liam Byrne

OK. I give up. English must be a broken language or something.

Happy parenting, all, and whatever methods you use, use them sparingly but do your best to stop the slide into undisciplined selfishness and "whatever"ness

Abi

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK. I give up. English must be a broken language or something.

Happy parenting, all, and whatever methods you use, use them sparingly but do your best to stop the slide into undisciplined selfishness and "whatever"ness

..Take care of yourself, annnnd each other :pac:

RussellTuring

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I was, and note that I was outlining what someone else's view extrapolated to.

There was a statement made re smacking leading to learning disabilities and a tendency for violence.

As I said, if even one occurrence disproves that theory, the theory is disproved.

You were either being facetious or saying what you actually inferred from what Chuck said. It can't be both. If you were being facetious then you must realise that personal testimony in court relates to specific events, whereas the claim was made that smacking increases the prevalence of some behaviours in children, not that smacking always has the same effect on everyone. In other words, if someone implies from the start that there will be exceptions, finding an exception doesn't mean as much as you seem to think.

And I sincerely doubt that I am unique.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Unique in what regard?

margio wrote: »

it is you that is shoving your opinions in my face. If people want to use smacking as a discipline tool, then nobody has the right to condemn them. I respect your views and I will not tell you how to raise your children, and I expect the same.

If you do something that doesn't affect anyone but yourself then it's none of my business, but if what you do involves someone else, especially a child who is much more vulnerable than you, then I will say something. There's quite a difference between shoving my opinion in your face and asking you to defend what you say. If you believe smacking is a legitimate tool in raising children, the very least you can do is justify it.

margio

As long as I am not abusing my children, the way I bring them up is none of yours or anyone elses business, just as the way you bring up your kids is none of mine. Why dont you defend your argument if you believe you are so right. Come on tell us step by step how you would disclipline your child, and what you would do if that failed. Reality bites I would imagine. Do you even have kids?

stimpson

margio wrote: »

As long as I am not abusing my children, the way I bring them up is none of yours or anyone elses business, just as the way you bring up your kids is none of mine.

Were you not the one advocating hidings for other parents who's discipline you don't agree with?

dark_shadow

I got an owl flaking of the wooden spoon once, by jaysus that hurt!!:P

Never did anything bold again though:D

margio

stimpson wrote: »

Were you not the one advocating hidings for other parents who's discipline you don't agree with?

If unruly kids are blatanty annoying In public places then it is other peoples business. , but just as it is no one elses business the way I discipline my kids, their methods are none of mine, however it is people like you that doing the exact opposite.

stimpson

margio wrote: »

If unruly kids are blatanty annoying In public places then it is other peoples business. , but just as it is no one elses business the way I discipline my kids, their methods are none of mine, however it is people like you that doing the exact opposite.

You said that as long as you're not abusing your kids it's nobody else's business. Which is it? Sounds like you want to criticize other people but not get criticized yourself.

You have no idea how I discipline my son. Just because I don't raise my hand to him doesn't mean he has no discipline. I know that's difficult for you to understand but there are more effective ways than a slap.

margio

stimpson wrote: »

You said that as long as you're not abusing your kids it's nobody else's business. Which is it? Sounds like you want to criticize other people but not get criticized yourself.

You have no idea how I discipline my son. Just because I don't raise my hand to him doesn't mean he has no discipline. I know that's difficult for you to understand but there are more effective ways than a slap.

When will you get it, yee are the ones shoving your opinions in other people's faces. I couldn't care less how you discipline your child, what you may find effective, maybe others dont. I mean come on, by the way your talking you only have the one. Come back to me when you have more. When a child doesn't have to share the attention of their parents with other siblings they get in to trouble a lot less. If you were an only child, you prob wouldn't have got half the slaps you did,or is that the problem, you were an only child, and your so used to getting your own way, and wont respect other views. If you have differing views to me, I respect them, I may not agree with them, but you know best with your child, as I do with mine.

stimpson

margio wrote: »

When will you get it, yee are the ones shoving your opinions in other people's faces. I couldn't care less how you discipline your child, what you may find effective, maybe others dont.

It's called a discussion forum. If you don't like others expressing their opinion you are free to stop contributing

I mean come on, by the way your talking you only have the one. Come back to me when you have more. When a child doesn't have to share the attention of their parents with other siblings they get in to trouble a lot less.

My sister has 3 kids. She used to slap. When she saw how effective the naught step was she stopped slapping. 2 years now without a wooden spoon and her kids are much better behaved.

If you were an only child, you prob wouldn't have got half the slaps you did,or is that the problem, you were an only child, and your so used to getting your own way, and wont respect other views. If you have differing views to me, I respect them, I may not agree with them, but you know best with your child, as I do with mine.

I got plenty of slaps as a kid. I got into plenty of trouble, including getting expelled from school at 15. I imagine you think I wasn't slapped enough :rolleyes:

margio

ooch the wooden spoon at this day and age, a bit severe I think

stimpson

margio wrote: »

ooch the wooden spoon at this day and age, a bit severe I think

What business is it of yours...etc

margio

exactly:D

RussellTuring

margio wrote: »

As long as I am not abusing my children, the way I bring them up is none of yours or anyone elses business, just as the way you bring up your kids is none of mine.

So when should other people intervene to protect an abused or neglected child if it's the business of nobody but the parents up to that point? The way you treat other people is my concern (and vice versa), for if the one who decides whether or not something is wrong is also the person potentially causing the harm, then you are relying on people who mistreat children to own up and ask for them to be taken away. Just giving birth doesn't mean you know how to take care of a child, as anyone who was raised by unsuitable parents will tell you.

Why dont you defend your argument if you believe you are so right. Come on tell us step by step how you would disclipline your child, and what you would do if that failed. Reality bites I would imagine. Do you even have kids?

You are the one advocating a position whereas I'm not suggesting anything in particular, therefore the burden of proof is on you to show that smacking children is appropriate. The reality is that there are no easy answers to dealing with inconsiderate children, just as there are none for adults. That said, one principle of mine is to avoid violence whenever possible. I wouldn't hit a dog for doing something I didn't like; it's the very least I could do for a child.

I have no children of my own yet but I did raise my much younger brother as our mother was incapable. I know how challenging it is to be responsible for a child, but hitting someone is all too easy to resort to in frustration and given the physical inferiority of a child to an adult, I think it's draconian and an abuse of power.

You said a while back:

margio wrote: »

I Was smacked when I was a Kid and I love and respect them for bothering to instill discipline in me.

I then asked you if you really loved them for smacking you as I don't think you really do. I'd appreciate it if you could answer this. It also bothers me that you seem to believe discipline and smacking imply each other when they really don't. Do you think that children will only behave if they are slapped? And that getting slap necessarily improves their behaviour?

margio

RussellTuring wrote: »

So when should other people intervene to protect an abused or neglected child if it's the business of nobody but the parents up to that point? The way you treat other people is my concern (and vice versa), for if the one who decides whether or not something is wrong is also the person potentially causing the harm, then you are relying on people who mistreat children to own up and ask for them to be taken away. Just giving birth doesn't mean you know how to take care of a child, as anyone who was raised by unsuitable parents will tell you.



You are the one advocating a position whereas I'm not suggesting anything in particular, therefore the burden of proof is on you to show that smacking children is appropriate. The reality is that there are no easy answers to dealing with inconsiderate children, just as there are none for adults. That said, one principle of mine is to avoid violence whenever possible. I wouldn't hit a dog for doing something I didn't like; it's the very least I could do for a child.

I have no children of my own yet but I did raise my much younger brother as our mother was incapable. I know how challenging it is to be responsible for a child, but hitting someone is all too easy to resort to in frustration and given the physical inferiority of a child to an adult, I think it's draconian and an abuse of power.

You said a while back:



I then asked you if you really loved them for smacking you as I don't think you really do. I'd appreciate it if you could answer this. It also bothers me that you seem to believe discipline and smacking imply each other when they really don't. Do you think that children will only behave if they are slapped? And that getting slap necessarily improves their behaviour?

See there you go again, implying that by giving a child and occasional smack a Parent is a child abuser. why should the onus be on me, I dont see why you should be exemt from prooving your argument. For your information I do use alternative methods. I use the both, it depends on the situation. You see to be confused between smacking and other formas of corporal punishment. Maybe I was smacked, not beaten or abused as a child, so I dont know why you find it so hard to understand that statement. My Parents were loving and capable people who disciplined me. Discipline does not equate to abuse. PS i DONT SMACK OUT OF ANGER. you know nothing.

RussellTuring

margio wrote: »

See there you go again, implying that by giving a child and occasional smack a Parent is a child abuser. why should the onus be on me, I dont see why you should be exemt from prooving your argument.

I never implied such a thing. I asked when it can be determined that a parent is an abuser rather than just using legitimate techniques if it's nobody else's business. As regards the rules of debate, I didn't make them up. They're based in logic and can be very useful if used.

For your information I do use alternative methods. I use the both, it depends on the situation.

And when, for example, would smacking be appropriate and nothing else?

You see to be confused between smacking and other formas of corporal punishment. Maybe I was smacked, not beaten or abused as a child, so I dont know why you find it so hard to understand that statement. My Parents were loving and capable people who disciplined me. Discipline does not equate to abuse. PS i DONT SMACK OUT OF ANGER. you know nothing.

I know the difference between a smack and a punch. I also understand that you love your parents. However, you said you were slapped as a child and you love them for disciplining you. I'd like you to clear up a) if you mean that you love them specifically for slapping you or rather for disciplining you and b) if you think it's possible to discipline without slapping, before we go any further.

BARRETT.50BMG

I was fostered by relatives and they used to beat the living **** out of me. I'm not talking a smack, I am talking punched, kicked, black eyes, teeth knocked out pretty much everything except broken bones.

I was fostered by these people because my parents died when I was young from alcohol addiction and was living with my grandparents who were unfortunately also addicted to the gargle.

So for those who do advocate for hitting children, where is the line drawn? Ban it outright so its not at the discretion of idiots like my foster parents.

Just as an addition to the above I was not a bad kid, my foster parents had no need to use such extreme punitive measures, I did not go out drinking, smoking, using drugs robbing cars or any crap like that. I was ALWAYS top of my class.

Some people are just sadists, and unfortunately these sadists are sometimes left responsible for the care of another.

margio

RussellTuring wrote: »

I never implied such a thing. I asked when it can be determined that a parent is an abuser rather than just using legitimate techniques if it's nobody else's business. As regards the rules of debate, I didn't make them up. They're based in logic and can be very useful if used.



And when, for example, would smacking be appropriate and nothing else?



I know the difference between a smack and a punch. I also understand that you love your parents. However, you said you were slapped as a child and you love them for disciplining you. I'd like you to clear up a) if you mean that you love them specifically for slapping you or rather for disciplining you and b) if you think it's possible to discipline without slapping, before we go any further.

.

In some cases it may be, but every child is different. Children, (only in my opinion) who have no siblings are that bit easier to deal with. however when more are added to the equation external influences can dictate a child behavior.
An example (A real one ) was when My first guy was throwing a tantrum, he totally had a meltdown. I then confiscated his favourite toy and he went even more ballistic. I kept his toy for two weeks or so, He seemed to totally forget the toy and continued his spa attack. His behaviour continued in to bed time and he refused to go to bed,. I told him on numerous occasions he would get a smack if his behaviour persisted, but he only made noises with his mouth, so I gave him a smack. Didn't bruise or mark him etc, nobody died and he went to bed. As for that other question I Fail to see your point. They disciplined me, I love them regardless. I have no issues with the way they disciplined me. It wasn't until I had kids myself that I considered smacking as a discipline tool. believe it or not I once an anti smacker. Probably because of the American TV influence etc., but now I'm in the real world. , however looking back I understand why they smacked me, i suppose that's what I meant

Liam Byrne

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

I was fostered by relatives and they used to beat the living **** out of me. I'm not talking a smack, I am talking punched, kicked, black eyes, teeth knocked out pretty much everything except broken bones.

Sorry to hear that

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

Some people are just sadists, and unfortunately these sadists are sometimes left responsible for the care of another.

Some sadists don't have kids, but get guns or become managers or priests and abuse those positions too. Should we ban guns and managers and basically any position of authority, ignoring decent people's requirements ?

Some parents are fine until they get sickeningly drunk, should we ban drink ?

BARRETT.50BMG

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry to hear that



Some sadists don't have kids, but get guns or become managers or priests and abuse those positions too. Should we ban guns and managers and basically any position of authority, ignoring decent people's requirements ?

Some parents are fine until they get sickeningly drunk, should we ban drink ?

We are not talking about, managing, drinking or religion, we are talking about the welfare of a small human being, who is still learning about the world and you think it a positive influence to strike them when they misbehave. Can you not think of a more intelligent solution to punish them?

On the subject of drink, seeing as you brought it up? Is drink necessary to our survival? Would we die without it?

Seeing as I explained the death of my parents in the post, using booze as an example is either stupid or in poor taste.

BARRETT.50BMG

margio wrote: »

.

In some cases it may be, but every child is different. Children, (only in my opinion) who have no siblings are that bit easier to deal with. however when more are added to the equation external influences can dictate a child behavior.
An example (A real one ) was when My first guy was throwing a tantrum, he totally had a meltdown. I then confiscated his favourite toy and he went even more ballistic. I kept his toy for two weeks or so, He seemed to totally forget the toy and continued his spa attack. His behaviour continued in to bed time and he refused to go to bed,. I told him on numerous occasions he would get a smack if his behaviour persisted, but he only made noises with his mouth, so I gave him a smack. Didn't bruise or mark him etc, nobody died and he went to bed. As for that other question I Fail to see your point. They disciplined me, I love them regardless. I have no issues with the way they disciplined me. It wasn't until I had kids myself that I considered smacking as a discipline tool. believe it or not I once an anti smacker. Probably because of the American TV influence etc., but now I'm in the real world. , however looking back I understand why they smacked me, i suppose that's what I meant

If I seen you doing that to a child in public, and decided to give you a smack, I would get locked up. You smacked him for making a bit of noise? What a big man you are.

Abi

margio wrote: »

.

Children, (only in my opinion) who have no siblings are that bit easier to deal with. however when more are added to the equation external influences can dictate a child behavior.

If a parent can't handle or hasn't the patience for more than one child, then maybe they shouldn't have any more than one. It's biting off more than you can chew, ill-temperedness, a piss poor excuse for slapping a child if there are others in the equation.

margio

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

If I seen you doing that to a child in public, and decided to give you a smack, I would get locked up. You smacked him for making a bit of noise? What a big man you are.

I'm not a man, to start with, but Liam is right, just because your foster parents were psychos when it came to children, it doesn't mean that ordinary parents who give their child the occasional smack are psycos. Liam is right. Unfortunately people like your Parents will always probably exist in society and always have, that maybe a mental health issue. They were sick people, but to compare the occasional smack to your life story is just pathetic. I'm sorry if your childhood was screwed up, but many people on this forum had normal and loving carers as children who smacked them, not abused them , just smacked them occasionallly. You are going to the opposite extreme altogether.

margio

Abi wrote: »

If a parent can't handle or hasn't the patience for more than one child, then maybe they shouldn't have any more than one. It's biting off more than you can chew, ill-temperedness, a piss poor excuse for slapping a child if there are others in the equation.

oh just cop on, and stop living in fantasy land.

Abi

margio wrote: »

oh just cop on, and stop living in fantasy land.

Good argument against ill-tempered parenting.

Liam Byrne

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sorry to hear that



Some sadists don't have kids, but get guns or become managers or priests and abuse those positions too. Should we ban guns and managers and basically any position of authority, ignoring decent people's requirements ?

Some parents are fine until they get sickeningly drunk, should we ban drink ?

We are not talking about, managing, drinking or religion, we are talking about the welfare of a small human being, who is still learning about the world and you think it a positive influence to strike them when they misbehave. Can you not think of a more intelligent solution to punish them?

On the subject of drink, seeing as you brought it up? Is drink necessary to our survival? Would we die without it?

Seeing as I explained the death of my parents in the post, using booze as an example is either stupid or in poor taste.

Genuinely missed that part due to the fact that there's a massive difference between what you described in your first paragraph and a light slap. Apologies for that.

It doesn't take from the point, though; all possible activities have potential misuses. A light slap that teaches a child not to be a horrendous tearaway is certainly the lesser of two evils.

Let's put it this way.....there is a chronic lack of respect and basic decency nowadays.......is it a coincidence that it coincides with the American pop-culture parenting taking over ?

And - with all due respect - the absolute max I am talking about is a light smack on the bum; anything else is abuse.

Liam Byrne

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

If I seen (sic) you doing that to a child in public, and decided to give you a smack, I would get locked up. You smacked him for making a bit of noise? What a big man you are.

If you saw margio - or indeed her child - doing that, you have no right or authority to discipline her.

As a parent she has an obligation to do so - one most so-called "parents" (aka sperm & egg donors) don't abide by.

Chuck Stone

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Let's put it this way.....there is a chronic lack of respect and basic decency nowadays.......is it a coincidence that it coincides with the American pop-culture parenting taking over?

What in the name of muppetry are you on about?

BARRETT.50BMG

margio wrote: »

I'm not a man, to start with, but Liam is right, just because your foster parents were psychos when it came to children, it doesn't mean that ordinary parents who give their child the occasional smack are psycos. Liam is right. Unfortunately people like your Parents will always probably exist in society and always have, that maybe a mental health issue. They were sick people, but to compare the occasional smack to your life story is just pathetic. I'm sorry if your childhood was screwed up, but many people on this forum had normal and loving carers as children who smacked them, not abused them , just smacked them occasionallly. You are going to the opposite extreme altogether.

A man who smacks his spouse occasionally can be locked up for domestic violence.

If people didn't feel they had the automatic right to hit their children, issues like mine can be reduced drastically.

Do you disagree?

Liam Byrne

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Let's put it this way.....there is a chronic lack of respect and basic decency nowadays.......is it a coincidence that it coincides with the American pop-culture parenting taking over?

What in the name of muppetry are you on about?

You know exactly - the "my child's an angel/does no wrong/best friends with my child/naughty step/all 'rights' with zero responsibilities/'what-ev-errrr'" generation.

The ones that have no shame in giving Gardai or law-abiding public cheek and backchat, and even if they chuck rocks or eggs at passing cars don't even bother trying to run - will stand there brazen as fvck knowing that it would take a natural disaster for them to get their comeuppance.

margio

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What in the name of muppetry are you on about?

I would imagine what he means is what is says. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that society has gone down the tubes, The crime rate is off the walls, Kids are runing wild. A friend of mine was walking through a car park last week, when there was a 2 young children he didn't know sitting in a car, and they stuck their fingers up at him as he walked passed them. Like I mean I'm not old but we wouldn't even consider doing that when we were kids.

Liam Byrne

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

A man who smacks his spouse occasionally can be locked up for domestic violence.

If people didn't feel they had the automatic right to hit their children, issues like mine can be reduced drastically.

Do you disagree?

It's not a man's (or woman's) responsibility to discipline their partner.

margio

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

A man who smacks his spouse occasionally can be locked up for domestic violence.

If people didn't feel they had the automatic right to hit their children, issues like mine can be reduced drastically.

Do you disagree?

/

what's your point?

BARRETT.50BMG

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If you saw margio - or indeed her child - doing that, you have no right or authority to discipline her.

As a parent she has an obligation to do so - one most so-called "parents" (aka sperm & egg donors) don't abide by.

I can't argue with the law. But lets use guns as an example, Americas gun controls are extremely lax, therefore guns are extremely easy to get, therefore many, many people are shot.

Cause and effect.

Allow parents to hit children = Far more parents will abuse this right = Far more children will be abused.

Cause and effect.



Seeing as I appear to be debating this with two shaved gorillas, and your responses are annoying me, I am going to withdraw from this conversation.
Is further explanation needed, honestly?

Abi

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's not a man's (or woman's) responsibility to discipline their partner.

Yet, when partners feel the need to hit each other, it's called assault. But of course hitting someone much smaller, less educated, and so much to learn about life than you, is okay.

Chuck Stone

Liam Byrne wrote: »

herp de derp, kids these days, hurr durr rabble rabble rhubarb

margio wrote: »

herp de derp, kids these days, hurr durr rabble rabble rhubarb

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and
tyrannize their teachers.

Socrates c. 469 BC – 399 BC

.

margio

Chuck Stone wrote: »

.

ara it's no wonder some Kids are the way they are, with irresponsible adults out there,

Chuck Stone

margio wrote: »

ara it's no wonder some Kids are the way they are, with irresponsible adults out there,

Irresponsible adults damage children by beating them when they have alternatives.

Abi

margio wrote: »

ara it's no wonder some Kids are the way they are, with irresponsible adults out there,

Try reading what he quoted.

margio

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Irresponsible adults damage children by beating them when they have alternatives.

And you'd know for certain yeah?

Liam Byrne

BARRETT.50BMG wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If you saw margio - or indeed her child - doing that, you have no right or authority to discipline her.

As a parent she has an obligation to do so - one most so-called "parents" (aka sperm & egg donors) don't abide by.

I can't argue with the law. But lets use guns as an example, Americas gun controls are extremely lax, therefore guns are extremely easy to get, therefore many, many people are shot.

Cause and effect.

Allow parents to hit children = Far more parents will abuse this right = Far more children will be abused.

Cause and effect.



Seeing as I appear to be debating this with two shaved gorillas, and your responses are annoying me, I am going to withdraw from this conversation.
Is further explanation needed, honestly?

Shaved gorillas, eh ? :rolleyes:

Obviously the whole lack of respect for other people is more prevalent than I thought.

But good riddance if that's the level of debate that you're offering.

Liam Byrne

Abi wrote: »

margio wrote: »

ara it's no wonder some Kids are the way they are, with irresponsible adults out there,

Try reading what he quoted.

I did. It doesn't mention anything about giving cops two-fingers or ASBOs.

Nice to know both you and Chuck are admitting it has gotten worse.

Chuck Stone

margio wrote: »

And you'd know for certain yeah?

There's a study a few pages back that shows links between corporal punishment and all sorts of negative outcomes.

Couldn't be bothered getting it for you but it's there.