A little example of Fiat reliability.

CiniO

As plenty of people think, and sometimes say it here, that Fiats are not the cars you can rely on. General Fix It Again Tomorrow stuff.

Here's example of mine.

2001 Fiat Bravo 1.2
First registered in Nov 2001, but only sold and licensed in July 2002.
Since then it had only 1 owner who did 85 kmls, and had it until March 2008, when I bought it.

Car was serviced regularly all it's life, with all the oil, filter, spark plugs, timing belt, brake lining, etc done in time.

She kept all receipts for any visits to garages, so I know exactly what was done with the car, and what broke down. Here's a list:

26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced
91 kmls - driver side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
104 kmls - exhaust leaking - welded
109 kmls - exhaust too rusty - replaced for new one - all except from CAT.
112 kmls - suspension upgrade - new front wishbones, 4 new shocks, 4 lowering springs, antiroll-bar links, tie rods, strut brace wheel alignment set.
118 kmls - rear arm upper mounting bushed loose - fixed.


That's all what actually failed.
One note to suspension upgrade at 112 kmls. It didn't need that much attention. sShock were still ok - not leaking and most likely OK for NCT (year earlier they passed NCT with perfect results) Wishbone balljoints were a but loose. Tie rod balljoints were loose. Antirollbar links rubber was bit rotten. Springs were fine. I decided to pretty much rebuild suspension, as I drive on very bendy and bumpy roads and like to have my suspension working perfect. Lowering springs and strut brace was an extra bit.

So considering list above, I personally think it's very reliable car, especially considering it was one of the cheapest cars of this size on the market when new.
Biggest problem seem to be front wishbone balljoints, which needed replacing twice. Clutch also could last a bit longer, but for first 85 kmls car was used mostly in city driving, so this definintely helped clutch to go early.. Exhaust made it thorough 9 years, but needed replacing.
Beside there wasn't really anything major.

I didn't put any general servicing on the list, as this was just done regularly as required within manufacturers manual.

At the moment car is in absolutely spotless condition mechanically. Generally it drives like new, and I can't think of single element which would be wrong. There's no rust on it at all. In my opinion it's really good for 10 year old vehicle.

If all of my cars in the future would be that reliable, I will be really happy.

L-M

In my own personal opinion I wouldn't touch one, any of them that I've seen have been really ropey looking/feeling to drive. They don't wear as well as their counter parts or just weren't minded as well.

Still though, nice to see a bit of good press once in a while, albeit a fairly basic car.

challengemaster

And all that within 118 km? jaysus, typical fiat :pac:

In all fairness, the only trouble my punto gave me was the exhaust coming apart - seems to be a common issue with rusting though.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced
91 kmls - driver side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
104 kmls - exhaust leaking - welded
109 kmls - exhaust too rusty - replaced for new one - all except from CAT.
112 kmls - suspension upgrade - new front wishbones, 4 new shocks, 4 lowering springs, antiroll-bar links, tie rods, strut brace wheel alignment set.
118 kmls - rear arm upper mounting bushed loose - fixed.

We haven't done that much work between the all the cars in our family and one of them is a Fiat! And some where of a much greater vintage before we got them.

coolbeans

To be fair, that's not bad. The only big job there was the clutch which goes or lasts according to the driver's style. If you take the upgrades on the suspension away it's been pretty fine. Nothing spectacular but fine all the same and I'd expect similar from most cars these days. Fiat are cheaper to buy too so all in all a decent package.

Anan1

Del2005 wrote: »

We haven't done that much work between the all the cars in our family and one of them is a Fiat! And some where of a much greater vintage before we got them.

That's over almost ten years.

The folks bought a new Ritmo in 1982, was a fairly cool looking one, blue with a stripe, rubber spoiler stuck on the back of it and yellow fogs :cool:
They then bought a 2 year old 1985 Mark 2 ritmo in 1987 to replace the still decent 1982 one, the mark 2 one rusted like mad, they kept that until 1996, never gave trouble as such except for the rust, I think it broke down once, starter motor iirc. For the last 2 to 3 years they had it I don't think they bothered getting it serviced at all, just kept decent tyres on it and the brakes and lights were fine etc.

The 1.4 in the early Brava and Bravo was a rotten engine though, the Punto was referred to as a social welfare car here back in the 90s, the finance deals Fiat offered made the Punto affordable to folk who couldn't really afford them.

barura

Here's another one:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2695730

On a famously unreliable version! I hear them 1.2 litre engines they made were quite solid.

David09

RoverJames wrote: »

The 1.4 in the early Brava and Bravo was a rotten engine though, the Punto was referred to as a social welfare car here back in the 90s, the finance deals Fiat offered made the Punto affordable to folk who couldn't really afford them.

...and therefore couldn't maintain them.

colm_mcm

RoverJames wrote: »

The 1.4 in the early Brava and Bravo was a rotten engine though, the Punto was referred to as a social welfare car here back in the 90s, the finance deals Fiat offered made the Punto affordable to folk who couldn't really afford them.

Apparently (an ex fiat man told me) you would get finance in the late 90s if you were on social welfare.

Ardennes1944

Love FIATS.....especially Puntos

..... a lad took over the managers job in the factors I used to work in years ago back in 00 or so, he was after leaving one of the larger Fiat dealers in Cork, he was telling us at the time that many folk who bought them didn't service them or even replace tyres when they were needed.

coylemj

RoverJames wrote: »

The 1.4 in the early Brava and Bravo was a rotten engine though

I bought a Bravo 1.4 12v new in June 1996 which would be one of the 'early' models. I kept it for five years, had it serviced once a year by a Fiat dealer and sold it in 2001 after c. 35k miles. It never gave me a minute's problem, fun car to drive and bags of room in the back.

It may sound incredible but I bought the Bravo because of a rave review by none other than Jeremy Clarkson who drove it on an episode of Top Gear. He said that the Bravo beat both the Renault Megane hatchback and the Rover 200 Coupe hands down so I went out and bought one, never regretted it.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

I bought a Bravo 1.4 12v new in June 1996 which would be one of the 'early' models. I kept it for five years, had it serviced once a year by a Fiat dealer and sold it in 2001 after c. 35k miles. It never gave me a minute's problem, fun car to drive and bags of room in the back. ...............

Still a rotten engine though, hence why fiat binned it for the 1.2 and relied on a 6 speed box to compensate in the larger cars.

dgt

RoverJames wrote: »

Still a rotten cylinder head though, hence why fiat binned it for the 1.2 and relied on a 6 speed box to compensate in the larger cars.

Nothing wrong with the block, the 1372 shortblock was used in the Tipo/Tempra and in the Punto Turbo. The problem with the 12v was the oil spray bar, the holes were too small and could get gummed up if not looked after properly. The 8v versions were bulletproof and conveniently never offered in Bravo/a.

The 1.2 is a superior engine to the 1.4 12v though. The 6 speed was used with a tougher differential in the Stilo instead of the chewing gum diff in older Puntos and Bravos which disassembled itself over time. A box exploded on me on the M1 years ago, impromptu lockup diff :pac:

As for reliability? Bravos just keep on going apart from the differential issue I can't fault them

Its not unheard of for large milage, the 2 Tempras here have 196k miles and 350k miles respectively. My dad had a new TD100 Marea in 1998, sold in 2000 with 96k miles on the clock. Saw it in 2009 still being used as a taxi in dublin. Would love to know how many miles it has now

Nissan doctor

I think Fiats biggest problem is the same one that most small cars suffer from, they are cheap to buy and are generally only bought(new at least) by people who need a school run/shopping/run around car and these people, generally(stereotyping a bit here I admit), couldn't be any less interested in spending money on proper maintenance or decent tyres etc, therefore, by the time the cars get to the second hand market, they start having problems....thus gaining a reputation as unreliable.

However, we forget that to your average driver in Ireland, having to spend money replacing anything other then tyres, oil/air filter and spark plugs means a car unreliable!:rolleyes:

kupus

My 1991 750 25KW Fiat Panda has been driven like a 2.0 turbo (insert your fav car here)
Its been up the top of wind swept mountains, its been down the valleys of the hot baking sun, its has shouldered the cold snow blown hills of desolate Balkan winters, drives on cliff side tracks only fit for a bike, (ask the Irish couple I met here from two years ago the girl was nearly white as a ghost after the drive lol which is my daily commute)......but she never gives up.
I've driven a lot of cars in my time from KAdett lancer, crx, lexus, Chevvy, Dodge, Mondeo, and a few more best forgotten about.......

This without a shadow of doubt is the best little car in the world. My top speed was around 135KM in fourth gear on a highway.
She needed a new gummy thing around the engine after though, and the petrol tube going into something I had to tighten again cos she started spitting fuel all over the place.
She drinks water likes theres no tomorrow, and for that reason we cant go on the mountains anymore cos of the snow. but she doesnt give up.
A truly amazing car, which I've learned the art of driving from.

We are looking now for a new car but she will be retired out with grace and dignity soon, so for the spring/summer I will be asking a lot more questions then as to what to do with her......thinking of turning into cabrio or a pick up

One of a kind.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

She kept all receipts for any visits to garages, so I know exactly what was done with the car, and what broke down. Here's a list:

26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced
91 kmls - driver side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
104 kmls - exhaust leaking - welded
109 kmls - exhaust too rusty - replaced for new one - all except from CAT.
112 kmls - suspension upgrade - new front wishbones, 4 new shocks, 4 lowering springs, antiroll-bar links, tie rods, strut brace wheel alignment set.
118 kmls - rear arm upper mounting bushed loose - fixed.



If all of my cars in the future would be that reliable, I will be really happy.

:eek: I can't believe what I am reading here! That is terrible build quality!


26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced


should not have happened.

Clutch gone at 72000 miles? Did the owner use the clutch as the brake pedal?

dgt

salonfire wrote: »

:eek: I can't believe what I am reading here! That is terrible build quality!


26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced


should not have happened.

Clutch gone at 72000 miles? Did the owner use the clutch as the brake pedal?

I can believe what I'm reading. Nothing major there

The speedo in these cars are in Miles, not kms. Apart from the window and door handle (not uncommon problems if I must admit) thats pretty alright to the average Irish driver who treats these car like rubbish.

I can think of other manufacturers with far worse problems. How about rotten Mercs and Fords? Did we conveniently forget Toyota and all their recalls last year? Or over the last 30 years infact? Because I certainly didn't :pac:

A Qashqai from Spring 2009, maybe 10.000 miles or max 12.500-15.000, so 1 year and 3 months and Clutch has gone... ( slipping it is ).

Normal use, from sub urb to country, few days a week and family use and already it's gone!

Who else recognises this problem.

Nissan says wants/needs to investigate what caused it but already stated how the clutch should be used and more or less states that the Clutch has not been used as it should and so there would be a small chance that it would be Warranty.

It would go and cost maybe GBP. 800,-- or GBP. 900,--!!...

I have browsed the net a bit and it seems I am not the only one and that it is a known problem, vulnerable Clutch.

I don't buy Nissan's attitude & believe they're liable as, the car is under WARRANTY. Guess what?!?...Nissan is "not there" for Warranty.

Who else has this problem with Nissan/Qashqai?????

http://www.nissanforums.com/general-discussion/161699-qashqai-clutch-cash-quai-early-clutch.html

And you call 72k miles bad? Whats this then???

Edit: Sorry Nissan doctor but thats this is the best example I could find

Nissan doctor

salonfire wrote: »

:eek: I can't believe what I am reading here! That is terrible build quality!


26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced


should not have happened.

Clutch gone at 72000 miles? Did the owner use the clutch as the brake pedal?

You just proved my point!


There is no set mileage for when suspension parts or a clutch can go, it depends entirely on the driver and driving type(city, motorway etc) and without knowing the full situation, is no indication of a cars build quality.

The door handle was a thing that the brava/bravo suffered from, but its cosmetic more then anything and the window and cd changer are things that can and do happen to any brand from Fiat to Ferrari!

colm_mcm

The cd changer would have been grundig


Ie. German :-)

johnos1984

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You just proved my point!


There is no set mileage for when suspension parts or a clutch can go, it depends entirely on the driver and driving type(city, motorway etc) and without knowing the full situation, is no indication of a cars build quality.

The door handle was a thing that the brava/bravo suffered from, but its cosmetic more then anything and the window and cd changer are things that can and do happen to any brand from Fiat to Ferrari!

Better examples are available

gb153

These threads about the reliability of French/Italian cars have come up here a few times before. Generally for every poster that has a story about trouble free ownership of one of these another poster will have a story with an endless list of things that went wrong with them. Because of all I've heard about them over the years I refer to them as 50/50 cars i.e. if you get one there is a 50/50 chance that it will be perfect/a dog to run.

Speaking very generally if reliability was my main buying priority it would always be a Japanese car. Even though they may not as reliable as they were in the nineties there are still the best comparatively. There will be the odd poster that has a story about Japanese car ownership that was far from reliable but they are few and far between.

A German car will be slightly less reliable than Japanese but probably a nicer car to sit in and drive. French/Italian cars would be the least reliable - maybe nicer to sit in and drive than Japanese cars but not as a nice a quality feel to interior as Germans.

Leonard Hofstadter

Inevitably those that have problems with Fiats and the likes have them because they didn't bother looking after them.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who has trouble with their car because they didn't service it on time with the correct oil etc.

Solnskaya

Being a car addict, I get through an awful lot of ahem, older vehicles. I had a big clear out recently, the only one that still started an drove after lying up for a year or more, was a 1.2 punto. I have a 1.7 diesel punto as a work "use this if nothing else is in the yard" vehicle, and the hateful sh1tbox never, ever, ever, fails to start and take you to your destination. It does somwhat lack style though..edit-its destination is often 3 hours up a motorway at 120kph. Not bad for a 13 year old, neglected hack.

Nissan doctor

johnos1984 wrote: »

Better examples are available

:P True, and they are both essentially the same company anyway.

gb153 wrote: »

These threads about the reliability of French/Italian cars have come up here a few times before. Generally for every poster that has a story about trouble free ownership of one of these another poster will have a story with an endless list of things that went wrong with them. Because of all I've heard about them over the years I refer to them as 50/50 cars i.e. if you get one there is a 50/50 chance that it will be perfect/a dog to run.

Speaking very generally if reliability was my main buying priority it would always be a Japanese car. Even though they may not as reliable as they were in the nineties there are still the best comparatively. There will be the odd poster that has a story about Japanese car ownership that was far from reliable but they are few and far between.

A German car will be slightly less reliable than Japanese but probably a nicer car to sit in and drive. French/Italian cars would be the least reliable - maybe nicer to sit in and drive than Japanese cars but not as a nice a quality feel to interior as Germans.

IMO all modern cars are as reliable as each other when used/maintained correctly. Most people don't realise the amount of alliances these days and how much platform/engine sharing that goes on. Nissan use renault diesels and platforms are shared between the two, Toyota share platforms and engines with citroen and peugeot, at one stage Mercedes and chrysler/dodge where the same company, Ford use peugeot/citroen engines as do mazda, the ford focus and mazda 3 are the same car mechanically....the list goes on and on.

Apart from sharing some high performance engines, BMW are probably the only completely stand alone manufacturer out there.

Most of the perceptions about french/italian, german, japanese, american etc cars are all completely out of date and stem from reputations gained 30 or more years ago and were mostly true up until the late 90's at the latest.

gb153

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Most of the perceptions about french/italian, german, japanese, american etc cars are all completely out of date and stem from reputations gained 30 or more years ago and were mostly true up until the late 90's at the latest.

I take your point there Nissan Doctor. Its definitely harder these days to have an idea of reliability with all the manufacturers sharing components. When I buy a car its usually 7-8 years old so I would be talking mainly up until the late nineties early noughties with my remarks.

Sitec

I always found Fiats fun to drive. They don't necessarily have the highest horsepower but are always light compared to their German rivals.

Most people are buying diesels these days. All new diesels are unreliable to a certain degree due to emission control putting stress on the common rail system.

I would prefer own a Fiat diesel over any mark. At least they've experience with CR through Iveco.

Nissan doctor

Sitec wrote: »

I always found Fiats fun to drive. They don't necessarily have the highest horsepower but are always light compared to their German rivals.

Most people are buying diesels these days. All new diesels are unreliable to a certain degree due to emission control putting stress on the common rail system.

I would prefer own a Fiat diesel over any mark. At least they've experience with CR through Iveco.

The latest generation of fiat diesel engines are actually the most reliable IMO. Fiat are at the forefront of modern CR technology and their engines are used by other brands now, GM being the main customer.

Del2005

Anan1 wrote: »

That's over almost ten years.

Still more work then on all of our cars and they weren't young or fresh when we got them.

unkel

Nissan doctor wrote: »

IMO all modern cars are as reliable as each other when used/maintained correctly.

Indeed there is very little in it these days. Even the most unreliable car for sale at the moment will only have a problem once per year or so

Nissan doctor wrote: »

BMW are probably the only completely stand alone manufacturer out there

BMW is the only mainstream mass manufacturer in the world that is privately / family owned. That is probably the reason they seem less keen to merge / platform share.

CiniO

salonfire wrote: »

:eek: I can't believe what I am reading here! That is terrible build quality!


26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced


should not have happened.

Clutch gone at 72000 miles? Did the owner use the clutch as the brake pedal?

So how does it look with other car makes?

In short words car has done almost 200,000 kms in 10 years, and all what was worn was suspension (wishbone balljoints, tie rod balljoints, rear arm bushes, antirollbar rubber links - all very cheap to fix). Clutch was gone early enough, but as I said car was driven almost entirely in the city for first 130,000 kms. And exhaust went completely rusty after 9 years. Little things like door handle rotted, cd changer broken and window mechanism gone, I consider just a little irrelevant failures.

Does anyone has example of any other car history which made much better?

ofcork

Personally i wouldnt buy fiat again as i bought 2 new puntos,one in 1998 and another in 2002 and both were back to the dealers many times with various issues.

wonski

Had 1.2 Bravo, too. Nice looking car for it's age, hit 100km/h on 2nd gear easily, but then not so fast...
Gearbox went after two weeks, then loads of things, after 10 months, when starter failed I've had enough. Offered it for free to my brother, who kindly offered 300 (for new non-chinese tires, battery, brakelines, brakes front, radio, too many to name). Needless to say headgasket went 2 weeks later!
Still driving it, with no problems after one year - probably because there is not much left to break down...
You were lucky, Cinio, as you found one that was regularly serviced and fixed. Every abused, non serviced properly car will give troubles to the owner, whether it is Fiat or Ford, or BMW doesn't matter.
Have 1.4 Scenic at the moment, and in one year only needed service and new coils, well - rear wiper turns on when on brakes and right indicator is on, but this is another story...apart from that reliable in 100%.

kmb

I have had lots of fiats and drive the brava 150bhp sport at the moment.
I also had the brav 1.2 which the soft diff went while teaching sister to drive.
Had a fiat 850,128,uno fire and 97 punto elx before that.
After the brava 00 1.2 i had the 2003 1.2 stilo and now the 2008 sport brava 1.4.
I can honestly say that the diff was the only problem with the brava 1.2.
No problems otherwise.
If you want to talk reliability take a look on the motors forum and you will see the same old problems which mainly are VW based.Injectors etc.
All my cars were serviced on time and the correct oil is also vital.
I personally wouldnt touch a differnt brand other than maybe the Alfa guiletta.

Solnskaya

wonski wrote: »

Had 1.2 Bravo, too. Nice looking car for it's age, hit 100km/h on 2nd gear easily, but then not so fast...
Gearbox went after two weeks, then loads of things, after 10 months, when starter failed I've had enough. Offered it for free to my brother, who kindly offered 300 (for new non-chinese tires, battery, brakelines, brakes front, radio, too many to name). Needless to say headgasket went 2 weeks later!
Still driving it, with no problems after one year - probably because there is not much left to break down...
You were lucky, Cinio, as you found one that was regularly serviced and fixed. Every abused, non serviced properly car will give troubles to the owner, whether it is Fiat or Ford, or BMW doesn't matter.
Have 1.4 Scenic at the moment, and in one year only needed service and new coils, well - rear wiper turns on when on brakes and right indicator is on, but this is another story...apart from that reliable in 100%.

related much?:D

colm_mcm

kmb wrote: »

I have had lots of fiats and drive the brava 150bhp sport at the moment.
I also had the brav 1.2 which the soft diff went while teaching sister to drive.
Had a fiat 850,128,uno fire and 97 punto elx before that.
After the brava 00 1.2 i had the 2003 1.2 stilo and now the 2008 sport brava 1.4.
I can honestly say that the diff was the only problem with the brava 1.2.
No problems otherwise.
If you want to talk reliability take a look on the motors forum and you will see the same old problems which mainly are VW based.Injectors etc.
All my cars were serviced on time and the correct oil is also vital.
I personally wouldnt touch a differnt brand other than maybe the Alfa guiletta.

Bravo?

kmb

Whoops,yes bravo,marnello red,17" two tone alloys,blue and me etc etc...

colm_mcm

Any chance of some pics?

I kinda like the new bravo, although it is a bit like a fat punto. I wouldn't say no to a nicely specced one

wonski

Solnskaya wrote: »

related much?:D

Isn't the red field on the dials indication to change the gear?

Well, didn't drive to much on original gearbox, it broke down before i hit 80km/h...
It just gear ratio that was really nice on this car (it also had 80bhp output, that from 1.2 engine was pretty good result) . On some petrol engines you have to change to 3rd before you hit 80, that one was pretty good, altough overtaking over 100 km/h wasn't easy, and took some time.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

CiniO wrote: »

26 kmls - cd changer broken - replaced within warranty.
30 kmls - passenger windows slow going up - fixed.
67 kmls - passenger side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
70 kmls - driver door handle rotted - replaced.
72 kmls - clutch gone - replaced
91 kmls - driver side wishbone balljoint loose - wishbone replaced and tracking set.
104 kmls - exhaust leaking - welded
109 kmls - exhaust too rusty - replaced for new one - all except from CAT.
112 kmls - suspension upgrade - new front wishbones, 4 new shocks, 4 lowering springs, antiroll-bar links, tie rods, strut brace wheel alignment set.
118 kmls - rear arm upper mounting bushed loose - fixed.

All that in 70k miles and then the regular service items on top of that list. . That is terrible. I think you have kicked an own goal there.

langdang

???
It's a ten year old car. I'd say the big overhaul "suspension upgrade" was done because Cinio's own choice, not by necessity - similar to Limerickmans on-and-off of coil-overs. "Them VWs must be awful unreliable hapes, always were always will be" based on the same logic that anyone thinks the amount of work done to the FIAT is "shocking".

The rubber door handle covers perishing wouldn't be a huge deal, I'd prefer it over a whole set of expensive injectors going, but different strokes for different folks I suppose! (I had a Bravo too, but it had the auto-asphyxiating 12V engine, nice car otherwise)

I've a ten year old Honda that had the ball joints done, exhaust looks like it was replaced recently, it has slow windows and clutch is starting to slip if abused - "All them Honda's are awful unreliable hapes, always were, always will be"

turbodiesel

Nissan doctor wrote: »

:P True, and they are both essentially the same company anyway.




IMO all modern cars are as reliable as each other when used/maintained correctly. Most people don't realise the amount of alliances these days and how much platform/engine sharing that goes on. Nissan use renault diesels and platforms are shared between the two, Toyota share platforms and engines with citroen and peugeot, at one stage Mercedes and chrysler/dodge where the same company, Ford use peugeot/citroen engines as do mazda, the ford focus and mazda 3 are the same car mechanically....the list goes on and on.

Apart from sharing some high performance engines, BMW are probably the only completely stand alone manufacturer out there.
Most of the perceptions about french/italian, german, japanese, american etc cars are all completely out of date and stem from reputations gained 30 or more years ago and were mostly true up until the late 90's at the latest.

Ahem, Ahem......

BMW & Toyota

http://pursuitist.com/auto/bmw-and-toyota-partner-on-green-technology/

E39MSport

CiniO wrote: »

Does anyone has example of any other car history which made much better?

Toyota Starlet.

galwaytt

Thaddeus Jealous Table wrote: »

All that in 70k miles and then the regular service items on top of that list. . That is terrible. I think you have kicked an own goal there.

That is no worse a list than am 01 320d Estate I had a few years ago, tbh, and that didn't even get to the 10 yr mark with the list. And then the ECU had a brain fart at 88k miles, and that was another 1200....now that, That is an own goal. And we all know the front wishbones are toast on them every 80k miles as well.

Ultimate Driving Machine ?
Ultimate Driving/Fixing/Driving/Fixing/Driving machine, more like.

When they're great, they're great. When they're not, they're as good as the next broken yoke, irrespective of badge.

All the (non-) apocraphyl Fiat stories have on thing in common: maintenance. Maintain them, and they'll serve well. Don't, and they won't.

Show me any other car that's any different.

barura

galwaytt wrote: »

That is no worse a list than am 01 320d Estate I had a few years ago, tbh, and that didn't even get to the 10 yr mark with the list. And then the ECU had a brain fart at 88k miles, and that was another 1200....now that, That is an own goal. And we all know the front wishbones are toast on them every 80k miles as well.

Ultimate Driving Machine ?
Ultimate Driving/Fixing/Driving/Fixing/Driving machine, more like.

When they're great, they're great. When they're not, they're as good as the next broken yoke, irrespective of badge.

All the (non-) apocraphyl Fiat stories have on thing in common: maintenance. Maintain them, and they'll serve well. Don't, and they won't.

Show me any other car that's any different.

Isn't that why people love Ford Focus', Toyota's with the 1.3 engine and the old SDI's?

I think some engines can put up with a lot of abuse and that's why they get this heritage of "bulletproof".

Service a car regularly and it should keep going for a couple hundred thousand.

shamwari

dgt wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the block, the 1372 shortblock was used in the Tipo/Tempra and in the Punto Turbo. The problem with the 12v was the oil spray bar, the holes were too small and could get gummed up if not looked after properly. The 8v versions were bulletproof and conveniently never offered in Bravo/a.

The 1.2 is a superior engine to the 1.4 12v though. The 6 speed was used with a tougher differential in the Stilo instead of the chewing gum diff in older Puntos and Bravos which disassembled itself over time. A box exploded on me on the M1 years ago, impromptu lockup diff :pac:

As for reliability? Bravos just keep on going apart from the differential issue I can't fault them

Its not unheard of for large milage, the 2 Tempras here have 196k miles and 350k miles respectively. My dad had a new TD100 Marea in 1998, sold in 2000 with 96k miles on the clock. Saw it in 2009 still being used as a taxi in dublin. Would love to know how many miles it has now

Excellent post. The 1.4 12v was considered to have been sold with chocolate camshafts they were so soft. But as with most cars, poor servicing decimated them and oil spary bars clogged and camshaft subsequently died of thirst. Did see one once with a holed piston when the cambelt broke and the valve head mashed thru the crown :eek:

As for Fiat diesels, IMHO they are absolutely legendary. Quick, economical, good for big miles, in fact they tick all of the boxes.

As for my car: 00 Punto with more miles on it that the Starship enterprise. And very very little has ever gone wrong with it on 4 years of busy ownership. :cool:

I'll say here what I've said before: look beyond the Fiat stereotype and grab yourself a fine motor at a good price

delly

Another happy Fiat owner here, took a chance when I both it but did my research to get a decent model and from a garage with a good name. It has proved very reliable in the two years of ownership.

RobAMerc

I've owned a few Fiats and I have to say I would much rather put up with the little bit of effort it takes to keep a Fiat on the road than drive the sole destroying sh1t box that are a lot of the competitors. I remember taking a Yaris out for a test drive for Mrs A Merc and thinking I wanted to get out before we got back from the test drive. We bought a 1.2 punto instead and I ended up always happy to take that rather than my own BMW if I was on a short trip as it was great.
I've also had a Cinquecento which never gave an ounce of trouble and I sold that after about 6 months for more than I paid for it ! can't say that happens too often !
We've also had multiple 127's, 127 Sports, Punto's and Uno's in the family and not one has been more trouble than any other of the brands we had ( ok one of the 127 sports broke a wishbone going down a forrestly rally stage and left Dad and bro upside down in the hedge ) but that's surely outside the realms of normal usage !

Tea 1000

Limerick man wrote: »

In my own personal opinion I wouldn't touch one, any of them that I've seen have been really ropey looking/feeling to drive. They don't wear as well as their counter parts or just weren't minded as well.

Still though, nice to see a bit of good press once in a while, albeit a fairly basic car.

Fairly basic car? Compared to what? Nicer handling than a Mk4 Golf, FAR better engine which is more powerful, much smoother and more reliable than the 1.4 shyte in the VW, comes with more kit than the Golf, and is much, much cheaper and in the right colour, better looking. I'd consider that many boxes ticked. It's no more basic than any other car in that range at that time.

E39MSport

You'd change your mind if you had to do the rear axle bushings on a Stilo after 80k. What a total pita. Mr. Fiat will quote you c. 1k for the pleasure.