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LETS ALL LAUGH AT PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION!!

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    #6062
    Gremlinertia
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 60,175 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    Yeah, same here, felt spacey for a few days but it settled - no issues coming off either..


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    #6063
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    As the earth has lost one of its most beautiful souls to depression - Robin Williams. I'd like to remind people there is ALWAYS a light at the end of the tunnel. We must keep on keeping on no matter how hard it gets. I've been there, wanting to end it all but each time I struggle through and am glad of the chance to remain alive here on earth among you all. Peace and love to you all xxxxxxx


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    #6064
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    Robin Williams. So sad. Dead Poets Society and Good Will Hunting are two of my favorite films


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    #6065
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    After all this talk about depression and suicide over the past couple of days, I can't help but think the following:

    If you would prefer someone with depression continued to live their life, continued to live with the torment and torture their depression brings them, for the sake of someone else's happiness (i.e their family, or yours), then you're the one being selfish.

    If someone wants to end their life then I think they should be allowed to. I would never ask someone to continue to live in "hell" just so I could be happy. It's their life, their body, their mind. If they want to end it then I would support them in their decision.

    What are your thoughts on this?


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    #6066
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,286 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    @Pedronnnn: My thoughts on your 'post' above? [not quoted, because imo it's not worth quoting... ]

    Just read the signs you have been given, and go away. Please, just go somewhere else to peddle your crap. The people here do not need your input. I hope you are welcome elsewhere.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #6067
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,396 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    pedro1234 wrote: »

    What are your thoughts on this?

    I have been trying for about 10 minutes to put down thoughts which convey how idiotic this is.

    It's probably up there with thinking there is a cure for being gay.


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    #6068
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    After all this talk about depression and suicide over the past couple of days, I can't help but think the following:

    If you would prefer someone with depression continued to live their life, continued to live with the torment and torture their depression brings them, for the sake of someone else's happiness (i.e their family, or yours), then you're the one being selfish.

    If someone wants to end their life then I think they should be allowed to. I would never ask someone to continue to live in "hell" just so I could be happy. It's their life, their body, their mind. If they want to end it then I would support them in their decision.

    What are your thoughts on this?


    What a load of crap. It's this very attitude that confuses people into thinking suicide is okay.

    Listen here suicide is NEVER okay!!!!!! Never okay for the person who dies this way as their lives are cut short when they could have been saved.
    Never okay for the utter devastation that is left behind for the families and loved ones.
    Never okay for society as a whole as it tends to have a domino effect i.e 'he/she did it so maybe I should'
    Suicide is NEVER ever the answer.


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    #6069
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    What are your thoughts on this?

    Depression is an illness. People who turn to suicide as a result are not doing so from a rational and objective position. They are doing so because their state of mind and decision making are compromised, because they are without hope, because they believe they can never be healed. But they are wrong, and to be helped.


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    #6070
    Sgt Hartman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭Sgt Hartman


    Anyone here get shivers down their spine from taking SSRIs? It's an unpleasant side effect of them and the main reason I stopped taking them.


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    #6071
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    Sgt Hartman wrote: »
    Anyone here get shivers down their spine from taking SSRIs? It's an unpleasant side effect of them and the main reason I stopped taking them.

    No I can't say I did when I was on them.


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    #6072
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Depression is an illness. People who turn to suicide as a result are not doing so from a rational and objective position. They are doing so because their state of mind and decision making are compromised, because they are without hope, because they believe they can never be healed. But they are wrong, and to be helped.

    Upsetting anyone wasn't my goal here, it was to get people to talk about this because not enough people tackle the subject.

    I didn't mean to come across as rude or to belittle the issue or your situation or stance (or anyone's), so I'm sorry if I upset anyone, that wasn't my intention.

    I'm sick of people saying someone who commits suicide is selfish. I think that's the meanest and cruelest thing they can say and it shows they don't understand the situation.

    I spoke with someone yesterday who used to be suicidal and their stance was that if a person can't beat their depression then wanting them to live with their pain for your own personal interest was selfish and it wasn't a stance I had even considered until now which is why I wanted people to talk about it.


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    #6073
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    Upsetting anyone wasn't my goal here, it was to get people to talk about this because not enough people tackle the subject.

    I didn't mean to come across as rude or to belittle the issue or your situation or stance (or anyone's), so I'm sorry if I upset anyone, that wasn't my intention.

    I'm sick of people saying someone who commits suicide is selfish. I think that's the meanest and cruelest thing they can say and it shows they don't understand the situation.

    I spoke with someone yesterday who used to be suicidal and their stance was that if a person can't beat their depression then wanting them to live with their pain for your own personal interest was selfish and it wasn't a stance I had even considered until now which is why I wanted people to talk about it.

    I just think you're going to struggle to gain any traction with this perspective, which paints depression as a potential death sentence. Death is final, it cannot be undone, whereas depression is not final. It's transient, and while it may recur for many people, it doesn't have to stand in the way of you living a long, healthy and for the most part happy life.

    I would be of the opinion that advocating suicide as a viable and rational escape is unhelpful, counter-productive and potentially dangerous. People who are depressed to the point of contemplating suicide are not in a sound state of mind, they can't make an informed decision on this, and nudging them in the direction of suicide may be all it takes to make them follow through.

    We need to be doing the opposite, nudging them away from it, helping them to become well again. Because nobody is so far gone that they can't recover.


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    #6074
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    Suicide isn't selfish in my opinion.
    But having been there last year and earlier this year I know that suicide is completely unnecessary. There is ALWAYS hope. And when I was contemplating taking my own life I was lucky to have such a good support system around me in my family. Because I feel the mental health services in this country need a complete facelift . Psychology needs to be brought in at the beginning instead of throwing tablets at you and sending you on your way. Talking is absolutely vital. I know funds are tight and the staff are being retched but 525 suicides in Ireland last year! Huge amount for such a tiny country. I spent 6 weeks in a psychiatric unit of hospital last year and left there no better. What I saw some days would make your eyes water. It's only when the psychology started I saw improvements. I still see the psychologist in fact I had a session this morning with him.


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    #6075
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    I just think you're going to struggle to gain any traction with this perspective, which paints depression as a potential death sentence. Death is final, it cannot be undone, whereas depression is not final. It's transient, and while it may recur for many people, it doesn't have to stand in the way of you living a long, healthy and for the most part happy life.

    I would be of the opinion that advocating suicide as a viable and rational escape is unhelpful, counter-productive and potentially dangerous. People who are depressed to the point of contemplating suicide are not in a sound state of mind, they can't make an informed decision on this, and nudging them in the direction of suicide may be all it takes to make them follow through.

    We need to be doing the opposite, nudging them away from it, helping them to become well again. Because nobody is so far gone that they can't recover.

    How can you say nobody is so far gone that they can't recover?

    I don't assume to know the minds of others and what they are going through. Surely every case is different?

    Trying to label everyone the same or treat them the same could be dangerous, surely?

    I think someone's mind and body are theirs and I should have no dominion over them.

    Also, not every suicide case is a result of depression.


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    #6076
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    How can you say nobody is so far gone that they can't recover?

    Because I've known people who have been at the end of their wick, failed suicide attempts, received help and are now very happy to be alive.

    Because I've been so far in the depths of despair that I truly believed I could never recover, yet I did.
    pedro1234 wrote: »
    I don't assume to know the minds of others and what they are going through. Surely every case is different?

    But you do - you assume that you know there are cases where the best option is death.
    pedro1234 wrote: »
    Trying to label everyone the same or treat them the same could be dangerous, surely?

    If to 'label everyone the same' in same in this context is to say that it's better to encourage people not to self-terminate, then I don't see how that can be construed as 'more dangerous' than telling them it's cool if they want to go die. What's more dangerous than death?
    pedro1234 wrote: »
    I think someone's mind and body are theirs and I should have no dominion over them.

    Yeah so do I. I'm not sure what relevance that has with regard to whether or not we should encourage people to kill themselves.
    pedro1234 wrote: »
    Also, not every suicide case is a result of depression.

    I'm not sure what relevance that has to the discussion of depression.


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    #6077
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,396 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    pedro1234 wrote: »


    I think someone's mind and body are theirs and I should have no dominion over them.

    .

    I would also be an advocate of this, but they would also need to be in the right frame of mind to begin with, which someone with Depression wouldn't be.


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    #6078
    lighthouse
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭lighthouse


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    After all this talk about depression and suicide over the past couple of days, I can't help but think the following:

    If you would prefer someone with depression continued to live their life, continued to live with the torment and torture their depression brings them, for the sake of someone else's happiness (i.e their family, or yours), then you're the one being selfish.

    If someone wants to end their life then I think they should be allowed to. I would never ask someone to continue to live in "hell" just so I could be happy. It's their life, their body, their mind. If they want to end it then I would support them in their decision.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    It's an interesting point you make. I suppose as a former suffer of depression I like to think that everyone can recover if given the correct help. However if I were in the depths of despair and I felt there was no way out I wouldn't like anyone to try and tell me what I should and shouldn't do.
    People need to be given more options than simply medication. Medication doesn't work for everyone. People need to be given more choices in the type of treatment they receive: psychotherapeutic supports etc.
    People need to be more pro-active in their recovery. At the end of the day we are all responsible for our lives, even if we continue living or not. I believe when people realize this they are less likely to act on suicidal thoughts.
    On my opinion the psychiatric profession often perpetuates a feeling of helplessness that a person is already feeling and can be often more likely to take their own lives while availing of their services.
    It's the old story, one size doesn't fit all and as I say people need to be given more choices in the type of help they receive.


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    #6079
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    Esel wrote: »
    @Pedronnnn: My thoughts on your 'post' above? [not quoted, because imo it's not worth quoting... ]

    Just read the signs you have been given, and go away. Please, just go somewhere else to peddle your crap. The people here do not need your input. I hope you are welcome elsewhere.

    That's a horrible response to be honest.

    I'm trying to have an open and honest discussion.

    Since when do you speak for everyone, and who gave you that right? You certainly don't speak for me.


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    #6080
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Depression is an illness. People who turn to suicide as a result are not doing so from a rational and objective position. They are doing so because their state of mind and decision making are compromised, because they are without hope, because they believe they can never be healed. But they are wrong, and to be helped.

    You're right, it is an illness, and saying "cheer up" to someone with depression is extremely insulting. People don't say "get better" to people with cancer.

    If someone is jaded and don't want to fight the illness any longer, and come to the conclusion rationally when they are not under a bout of depression then what's the problem?


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    #6081
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    But you do - you assume that you know there are cases where the best option is death.

    there are cases where death is the best option, and that case is when the person suffering from the illness doesn't want to deal with the illness anymore. The same goes for cancer, if someone is sick of dealing with it and wants to end it then I would support them. It's the same with depression. This is not claiming to know the minds of others. You've made that conclusion jump all by yourself.
    If to 'label everyone the same' in same in this context is to say that it's better to encourage people not to self-terminate, then I don't see how that can be construed as 'more dangerous' than telling them it's cool if they want to go die. What's more dangerous than death?

    I never said it was 'cool to die'. Again, that's a conclusion you came to by yourself.
    Yeah so do I. I'm not sure what relevance that has with regard to whether or not we should encourage people to kill themselves.

    If you really did then you would respect their decision.


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    #6082
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    If you really did then you would respect their decision.

    Rubbish, it's the illness making the decision, not the person.


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    #6083
    lukesmom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Rubbish, it's the illness making the decision, not the person.

    Have to agree and I have first hand experience. I was so severely depressed last year that I wanted to end it all, I couldn't see any light or any chance of ever getting better. I wasn't thinking straight because the illness took over.

    But somehow I persevered and I'm so very very glad I did. Imagine me leaving my husband and 3 kids! Leaving my mother with another dead child. Was not meant to happen and now in my rational mind I look back and can see how you can always get through it. It takes time and patience but recovery is always possible. It took me 4 long painful months to see any bit of light but it happened and I am stronger for it.


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    #6084
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Rubbish, it's the illness making the decision, not the person.

    Depression has a consciousness of it's own? o.O


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    #6085
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    lukesmom wrote: »
    Have to agree and I have first hand experience. I was so severely depressed last year that I wanted to end it all, I couldn't see any light or any chance of ever getting better. I wasn't thinking straight because the illness took over.

    But somehow I persevered and I'm so very very glad I did. Imagine me leaving my husband and 3 kids! Leaving my mother with another dead child. Was not meant to happen and now in my rational mind I look back and can see how you can always get through it. It takes time and patience but recovery is always possible. It took me 4 long painful months to see any bit of light but it happened and I am stronger for it.

    You have first hand experience of your own case, but everyone's case is different, as I have said a few times and I'm sure you'll agree. It's great that you got over your illness, it really is, but you have to be careful when comparing your battle to other people's. Sometimes it can appear very disrespectful to them.

    Would you really say to someone who was battling bipolar depression for 20 years or more, that you have first hand experience of your own illness which took you a few months to conquer, and you know what it is like?

    There's different types of depression, just as there are different types of, and stages of, cancer.

    I hope you don't think I'm belittling you or your struggle. All I'm trying to say is be careful comparing your own illness to that of others. It is not that simplistic and it can really annoy some people. I've made this mistake in the past.

    Someone who is bipolar normally can't get over their depression either. For them there is no cure, just a case of finding the right meds and this is an important distinction because as I said, every case is different and needs to be addressed individually on a case by case basis. Even the right meds aren't a cure, because no matter what the bad days always come, and come often.


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    #6086
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    Depression has a consciousness of it's own? o.O

    If you don't think that depression alters people's behaviour and impairs their decision making then I don't see much point in us continuing to discuss this.


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    #6087
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    If you don't think that depression alters people's behaviour and impairs their decision making then I don't see much point in us continuing to discuss this.

    If you had initially said that, then I would have agreed with you.

    For the record it's the person with the illness making the decision.


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    #6088
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    Man, I dunno what this is but maybe someone here can tell me. I've been having these things the last few months, was assuming they were related to my coffee intake but I had about half my usual and it was all hours beforehand. It's not a panic attack because it just seems to abruptly start and maintains that level until I get really tired and fall asleep.

    So here're the things:
    - Mind becomes extremely scattered
    - Get very twitchy/shakey
    - Mild hallucinations and difficulty focusing my eyes on anything
    - Movements tend to speed past my thoughts
    - Need to speak my thoughts to keep track of them
    - Sudden pauses where I'll space out entirely for several minutes before returning to all of the other things


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    #6089
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    It is worth telling a psychiatrist of these symptoms and I say that because, I had symptoms like that and required hospitalisation. I am NOT saying you do, but for me it was something that over the course of a few weeks (with the help of substance abuse) escalated to a place where I needed to be in care.

    You say it's been happening over months, which was not the case for me.

    I repeat, not trying to alarm you at all, it could equally be nothing I have no idea , just don't leave it without seeing a psychiatrist or at least your GP.


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    #6090
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    :eek:

    Definitely noted ...I'll just wait and see if it happens again without the coffee though. I'm not taking anything at all beyond coffee atm, by the way.


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    #6091
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    After all this talk about depression and suicide over the past couple of days, I can't help but think the following:

    If you would prefer someone with depression continued to live their life, continued to live with the torment and torture their depression brings them, for the sake of someone else's happiness (i.e their family, or yours), then you're the one being selfish.

    If someone wants to end their life then I think they should be allowed to. I would never ask someone to continue to live in "hell" just so I could be happy. It's their life, their body, their mind. If they want to end it then I would support them in their decision.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    There is merit to this. I'm ethically a mess when discussing these issues. Nobody here would be comfortable with forcibly strapping down an individual to a bed so they couldn't self harm themselves. Yet, most of us could advocate arguments for it being necessary. Suicidal ideation is rarely rational thinking. But much as I hate the thought of individuals I love taking their own lives I hate the thought of them suffering eternal torment even more. As such this is one very grey area. Obviously many illnesses of any form are temporary, others though are permanent. I can't in good conscience ever agree to someone permanently suffering against their will. I also can't remain in good conscience and let my friend go home alone because she's too drunk to behave rationally. Ultimately I believe there is no right or wrong here just individuals. Each case is different and each ethical answer is never easy. I could let my friend have full autonomy to walk home alone, or were she suicidal I could let her have the autonomy to commit suicide but my conscience would also tell me the person I know would never want me to let her walk home alone or commit suicide. So I wouldn't.

    All this tacitly acknowledges that I know what's best for someone's else life and should exert control. Ethically, deciding to control another person's life is never ever going to sit comfortably with me. Slyvia Plath is one of my favorite writers. I wish the world that I could speak to her in real life. Yet in many ways I'm glad she didn't spend 70 years suffering internal torment. Even if that meant I got to speak to her. Like I said, this stuff ain't easy. For most people their torment can be treated and managed. For others though the torment of any health condition could be permanent and excruciating. Forcing them to live that way? Oh Christ is that a tough ethical dilemma. The only chance anyone with an illness has at experiencing a normal life is to endure. Some just have to endure for a very long time. If they don't then there's no hope for anything. But how long should we force someone to endure and what levels of torment do we deem acceptable for an individual to experience?

    The only thing I'm certain of is those who do endure the torment are very brave and admirable people. I really hope that the endurance pays off and normality is restored to them. You may have noticed by now I wasn't specifically discussing depression. This was because it's easier to present the ethical dilemma while including physical illnesses. Depression is the poison that tells people things are hopeless, when most of the time they aren't. Hopefully if you followed the above it should be clear ethically how much of a mess that creates. If so no need to read further.

    Depression, is going to tell any individual that life is grey and colorless. That there isn't going to be a normal. The only hope is false hope. Everything requires so much effort! With this being a possible person's state of mind can we reasonably expect them to be soundly evaluating their future prospects for life? Yet at the same time can we ever hope to actually understand the level of torment they are enduring? How does one find the necessary information between the latter two answers to determine ethically what their stance should actually be? The individual has a false perception of their future potentials. Yet all we have at best is an approximation of their inner turmoil. Neither we nor they themselves are in any position to comprehensively judge whether their life should be allowed let end.
    But life is sacred so the reasoning goes like this: they might not be in a position to know what's best, we might not be, but we should err on the side of caution, if we were to stand aside and let them commit suicide there would be no going back. Until we become absolutely convinced there is nothing other than eternal torment at hand we should do everything to counteract suicidal ideation. The depressive should always be reminded that the odds they have to endure severe depression life everlasting are incredibly slim. There's nothing grey about that - that's the reality of the situations most have to endure.

    Tl; dr forcing individuals to suffer against their will is mostly wrong but there are circumstances where it may be warranted. Depression is such a nasty bastard of an illness it makes things very ethically complicated indeed.


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