Retailer seeks full payment days before receipt of goods?

jack of all

My wife opted to avail of the bike to Work scheme through her employer (semi-private sector) last month. We selected a bike and accessories to the value of €1000 from a small independent retailer, where we had, days previously purchased a childrens bike in a separate transaction. The cheque for €1000 was issued by the employer within a week.

We heard nothing from the shop and after 2 weeks we contacted them and were told "bike is due in this week". Another week passed and nothing. My wife rang the shop on Saturday and she was told she could collect the bike on Thursday evening (this coming week), BUT they wanted the payment in advance, namely today, Monday. First off I'm suspicious and secondly I don't like paying for anything in advance of receipt, unless by credit card when certain consumer protections are in place. I'm going to call to the shop in person today to see what the story is but I wanted to get some opinion here first.

I narrowly escaped being left out of pocket by another retailer this year when they went bust and shut shop overnight, without warning. I don't know if this retailer is in trouble (I doubt it) but on principle alone I would never pay for something before seeing the goods and certainly not without possession. I am a little insulted by the implication that I might pass a dud cheque or that I somehow might try and pull a fast one. I am happy to let him take a photocopy of the cheque today if wishes to check it out with the issuer, but if that's not good enough I am happy to say deal is off and we'll shop elsewhere and thanks for wasting our time. Whatcha think?

Melendez

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seamus

Strictly speaking the liability is the employer's in this case. The B2W scheme specifically requires that the employer pays for the bike and the bike is delivered to the employer. So if the employer pays but no bike is delivered, the employer takes the hit and not the employee.

But some employers have done it other ways for simplicity's sake.

It would seem odd that they insist on being paid for the bike even though they claim to have it. If they have the bike, they've paid for it, so they don't need your money in any urgent way.

My contention would be that if he has the bike, why can't you collect it today? I would go with just telling them that you'll pay for the bike when you pick it up. If he wants the cheque today, then you will collect the bike today. If he doesn't like that, tough. They can't force you to come in and pay for it and they don't want to be left with a bike that they may not sell.

Tigger

They're afraid the cheque won't go through I assume
If your not happy the. Go elsewhere but
many cheques are bouncing these days and a cheques must be cleared policy is a cheques must be cleared policy and shouldn't give different values to different cheques.
I lodged a bank draft from aib to boo last Monday and can only draw against it today. That's just how these things are

jack of all

Yeah, I think I'll just ask him what is the reason for this policy, he should have flagged it when we were agreeing to sign up. What irritates me most is the fact that I've had the cheque for almost 4 weeks and yet he never once rang us to say "we have the bike, have you got the money?"- we rang on each occasion to enquire about progress and I felt they were a bit tardy on their part. In contrast, my brother (living in another town) ordered a bike from a different retailer and had it within a few days, no fuss. I can understand the need for caution in this climate but I do think retailers need to be more upfront with customers, after all if there is no trust on either side then everyone suffers.

Tigger

don't take shop policy personally

and trust? lol
just cos you are trustworthy don't assume that everyone is

whippet

a cheque is worthless nowadays from a business you are not dealing with regularly. Until it clears nothing is paid.

our company will accept cheques but won't release goods until the money is safely sitting in our account.

jack of all

I understand why a business will want to ensure a cheque clears but what if said business closes shop after you've and paid and before you've received your goods? You are then an unsecured creditor and that is a much more likely scenario in the current economic climate. Anyway I'm going to talk to the shop.

Tigger

jack of all wrote: »

I understand why a business will want to ensure a cheque clears but what if said business closes shop after you've and paid and before you've received your goods? You are then an unsecured creditor and that is a much more likely scenario in the current economic climate. Anyway I'm going to talk to the shop.

so pay by money not prommisary note

Melendez

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Tigger

Melendez wrote: »

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i've had co-council cheques not work
don;t see the issue if the shop flops its on the semi-state no the wife
i'd be surprised if a bike shop flopped in the best week of the year

Melendez

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Tigger

Melendez wrote: »

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i give up lol

Del2005

Tigger wrote: »

I lodged a bank draft from aib to boo last Monday and can only draw against it today. That's just how these things are

Be careful unless it's someone you know and trust. They'll let you draw money off the cheque, but when it goes to the issuing bank your bank will take the money back if there aren't funds to cover it.

Melendez wrote: »

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The country is broke and you're saying cheques from a semi state will be safe:eek: and it's not that hard to fake a cheque.

Wasn't there stories going around how the "State" is one of the worst for paying invoices on time. Just because they have the money doesn't mean their cheques won't bounce, they need to have the money in the chequeing account.

Fey!

whippet wrote: »

a cheque is worthless nowadays from a business you are not dealing with regularly. Until it clears nothing is paid.

our company will accept cheques but won't release goods until the money is safely sitting in our account.

That would be 3 to 6 weeks, even if you're lodging a cheque from an account in the same bank and branch as your own account!!

Tigger

Fey! wrote: »

That would be 3 to 6 weeks, even if you're lodging a cheque from an account in the same bank and branch as your own account!!

Sorry but what?

maxer68

A cheque takes 5 days to clear. Some banks won't allow the amount to be used against anything until day 6 (NIB), some allow it after day 2 but under warning that the account holder is liable.

I won;t accept a cheque from anyone unless I am certain of authenticity and then only if they already have an account with us.

If someone insists on paying by cheque or bank draft, then I would ask for it at least a week before releasing goods. I don;lt care if its a semi state or government dept itself, too many dodgy practices out there to make it worth the risk.

Del2005

Tigger wrote: »

Sorry but what?

maxer68 wrote: »

A cheque takes 5 days to clear. Some banks won't allow the amount to be used against anything until day 6 (NIB), some allow it after day 2 but under warning that the account holder is liable.

I won;t accept a cheque from anyone unless I am certain of authenticity and then only if they already have an account with us.

If someone insists on paying by cheque or bank draft, then I would ask for it at least a week before releasing goods. I don;lt care if its a semi state or government dept itself, too many dodgy practices out there to make it worth the risk.

Your bank will release money for the cheque within 5 or 6 days. But they will send the cheque back to the issuing bank and if there are no funds in the issuing bank to cover it, or it's fake, then your bank will take the money back from your account at any time.

That's the problem with cheques. People think they've being paid when they see the money in their account. But the bank has only lent you the money till the cheque is cleared by the issuing bank, which takes several weeks. If the issuing bank doesn't send cash to your bank then they'll take their money back from your account and you've already provided the service or goods.

The only looser is the person who lodged the cheque, so the banks don't care.

Oryx

I can understand the shop policy here. Its a huge risk to take a cheque of that value. Clearly op, you don't trust them, so can't you understand that they cannot afford to trust you? Every single business out there that takes cheques will have had one bounce. Cheques are not a secure form of payment. And banks will tell them nothing about the status of the account the cheque will be drawn on, and they will not preauthenticate a cheque based on a photocopy. Now I know they havent inspired confidence but I can see why they are being sticky on the cheque issue.

bucketybuck

Any business that doesn't operate or use Transax is a bit of a mickey mouse operation imo. They are going to jeopardise a sale because they cannot explain their procedures to the customer? And they cannot accept cheques unless they have five days in advance to process it?

What crap customer service. I would be willing to bet that there are plenty of retailers out there who will be far more accommodating to your situation, I suggest you forget these clowns and look elsewhere.

Oryx

I presume Transax is a cheque guarantee service? That is an expensive service, not justifiable in a small sole trader. And try paying with a cheque in your local Aldi.. I wouldn't call them mickey mouse.

bucketybuck

Oryx wrote: »

I presume Transax is a cheque guarantee service? That is an expensive service, not justifiable in a small sole trader. And try paying with a cheque in your local Aldi.. I wouldn't call them mickey mouse.

I have worked with companies ranging from small to medium sized (less than 50 staff). Transax is standard.

My father runs his own independant garage, he is the only employee, with my mum doing paperwork for him. Even they have Transax. Not justifiable my arse.

Del2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

Any business that doesn't operate or use Transax is a bit of a mickey mouse operation imo. They are going to jeopardise a sale because they cannot explain their procedures to the customer?

From a quick google Transax doesn't appear to operate here or at least their Irish and international sites are down.

Also it's another layer of paper work for companies to have to pay for. It's much simpler to not take cheque.

And they cannot accept cheques unless they have five days in advance to process it?

That's an issue with the bank and their processes. If it didn't take several weeks for the person/company to be sure they've been paid then cheques would be more widely accepted.

Unfortunately too many con people have figured this out and are stealing from business.

What crap customer service. I would be willing to bet that there are plenty of retailers out there who will be far more accommodating to your situation, I suggest you forget these clowns and look elsewhere.

Not really an option as the bike is being bought through the "Bike to Work" scam and the OPs company has provided the cheque.

bucketybuck

Del2005 wrote: »

From a quick google Transax doesn't appear to operate here or at least their Irish and international sites are down.

Also it's another layer of paper work for companies to have to pay for. It's much simpler to not take cheque.


That's an issue with the bank and their processes. If it didn't take several weeks for the person/company to be sure they've been paid then cheques would be more widely accepted.

Unfortunately too many con people have figured this out and are stealing from business.



Not really an option as the bike is being bought through the "Bike to Work" scam and the OPs company has provided the cheque.

I work in Dublin and used Transax just this morning.

dudara

The simple fact is that cheques are an outmoded form of payment and are gradually dying out. They are costly and slow to process and are prone to fraud.

Shops can refuse to take cheques, if they so wish.

FYI - For those interested in Transax - I can't find an Irish website, but here is a site with a link to their brochure.

Fey!

bucketybuck wrote: »

Any business that doesn't operate or use Transax is a bit of a mickey mouse operation imo. They are going to jeopardise a sale because they cannot explain their procedures to the customer? And they cannot accept cheques unless they have five days in advance to process it?

What crap customer service. I would be willing to bet that there are plenty of retailers out there who will be far more accommodating to your situation, I suggest you forget these clowns and look elsewhere.

Transax is a costly service to use (even higher than Amex in my experience), and with tight margins they can make a deal too tight for the retailer. They are also (at least when we used to use them) slow to deal with, which can cost you sales if it's busy and customers are leaving while you're on the phone to transax.

To call a company Mickey Mouse for not using them is absurd, as is calling these business' clowns.


@Del2005; thanks for explaining the cheque clearance thing.

bucketybuck

Fey! wrote: »

Transax is a costly service to use (even higher than Amex in my experience), and with tight margins they can make a deal too tight for the retailer. They are also (at least when we used to use them) slow to deal with, which can cost you sales if it's busy and customers are leaving while you're on the phone to transax.

Transax does have associated costs yes, which is why the likes of ALDI or any FMCG company may decide not to use it. But we are not talking about buying a €20 toaster here, we are talking items €500+. We are not talking a queue at Tesco, we are talking an item with a lead time in weeks. If this company is selling bikes at €1000 but is not prepared to use a financial institution that could guarantee payment for them, and would rather jeopardise a sale by placing this burden at the feet of the customer, then I am sorry, but yes they are a bit of a mickey mouse outfit.

My average cash sale runs from about €300 - €500. It pays me to transax every cheque received. Why would the margins be different selling €1000 bikes?

jack of all

Got the bike anyway, very pleased with it, not so happy with the indifferent customer service we got from the shop- I couldn't have done any worse if I'd bought off the net.