The new trafic mess on the Quay.

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

Say's you, an opinion, based on?
Mine is an opinion based on 35 years of construction and engineering and 20 years of planning civil engineering work, I'm quite happy in my box talking about a topic I know whereas you .....

Right. So you think this is a well-planned, well executed job then? I'm basing mine on common sense. What are you basing yours on, apart from working in the industry itself?

And as you say yourself "opinion" and "talking" doesn't make you right!

7upfree

O Riain wrote: »

While I rarely agree with Sully, 7upfree is wrecking my(and everyone elses) head beyond belief.

Well my apologies for speaking my mind dear!:)

O Riain wrote: »

Yes the roadworks are taking an absurdly long time, yes its completely ridiculous

Precisely what I and others have been arguing.

O Riain wrote: »

Traffic is beyond bad in Galway yet never once have I ever heard a tourist mention the traffic when speaking about the place. Likewise I cannot remember one single traffic jam I have ever been in whilst on holiday.

Because of proper traffic management and forward planning.

O Riain wrote: »

As for businesses suffering on the quay, I actually don’t remember the last time I've seen the quay so bustling with restaurants, bars, cafes, hotels and shops. Granted Johnnys Hearns and Kellys are closed but the top end near the bridge seems to be doing ok.

Spoke to a trader near the Munster Express during the Quay. He had the exact opposite to say. But - hey. He's only doing business there. What would HE know??

7upfree

S28382 wrote: »

Your really good at linking words to make up your clever comebacks did you learn that in special school?

You obviously never paid attention to grammar and punctuation during that short period you spent there yourself.:D Were you in the class ahead of me?

S28382

7upfree wrote: »

You obviously never paid attention to grammar and punctuation during that short period you spent there yourself.:D Were you in the class ahead of me?

Im disappointed i really thought you would come back with something better than that. I love the high and mighty comments that you throw at other users i bet you google every big word to check its meaning before you put it in your sentences.

jad2007

I see the vitriol that ruined the politics section is now crossing over into a thread on traffic situation on the quay.

wellboytoo

7upfree wrote: »

Right. So you think this is a well-planned, well executed job then? I'm basing mine on common sense. What are you basing yours on, apart from working in the industry itself?

And as you say yourself "opinion" and "talking" doesn't make you right!

No if YOU read this thread you would see that I agree it is a total Clusterf**k as regards contractors going bust etc no one I repeat no one is arguing otherwise, my comments pertain to the planned finish product, which I believe to be sensible use of space, will allow traffic to flow slowly but smoothly, will make our Quays a safer and more pleasant place .
You on the other hand are all over the shop, I dare say you are arguing for the sake of argument, so put up or shut up, we all agree the construction phase has been a cock up, what are your opinions on the finished plans? or have you looked at them?
As I said construction is by its nature problematical to live around , if you want change you have to take some pain, we have had a longer period of pain here because the world went bust, get over it.
The Quays as they were were a disaster a four lane motorway in the middle of a city, we gave the HGV's a bypass that understandably they are reluctant to pay the toll on, so now we are slowing things down so the €6.00 will not look that big towards sitting in traffic for 20 minutes and we get the City centre back.
I think the above is good planning, what do you propose oh one who nose (sic) everything?

Captain Havoc

S28382 and 7upfree, please put the handbags away.

Deise Vu

wellboytoo wrote: »

No if YOU read this thread you would see that I agree it is a total Clusterf**k as regards contractors going bust etc no one I repeat no one is arguing otherwise, my comments pertain to the planned finish product, which I believe to be sensible use of space, will allow traffic to flow slowly but smoothly, will make our Quays a safer and more pleasant place .
You on the other hand are all over the shop, I dare say you are arguing for the sake of argument, so put up or shut up, we all agree the construction phase has been a cock up, what are your opinions on the finished plans? or have you looked at them?
As I said construction is by its nature problematical to live around , if you want change you have to take some pain, we have had a longer period of pain here because the world went bust, get over it.
The Quays as they were were a disaster a four lane motorway in the middle of a city, we gave the HGV's a bypass that understandably they are reluctant to pay the toll on, so now we are slowing things down so the €6.00 will not look that big towards sitting in traffic for 20 minutes and we get the City centre back.
I think the above is good planning, what do you propose oh one who nose (sic) everything?

This is the bit that drives us non-planning professionals nuts. Planners have a mantra that traffic is bad, buses, bicycles and feet are good which is a perfectly valid viewpoint. However, rather than making public transport systems more attractive planners instead choose the option to make driving worse. Its not just on the quay, there has been an infestation of additional traffic lights around the town deliberately (I presume) sited before and after roundabouts. This is causing absolute mayhem and the really annoying thing about it is it plainly isnt getting people cycling, walking or using public transport more.

Another hilarious consequence is the junction of Colbeck Street, the Mall and Catherine Street. Stand there for 5 minutes and you will see cars going through lights that are not only red for the car but the pedestrian lights are flashing green for pedestrians. it is absolutely lethal because cars are getting stranded in the middle of the junction when the traffic flow inevitably stops at almost every light change.

Whether we like it or not people are addicted to their cars and traffic planners 'chaos theory' just ain't working.

S28382

Captain Havoc wrote: »

S28382 and 7upfree, please put the handbags away.

I was waiting for you to arrive with your bold letters.

7upfree

Deise Vu wrote: »

This is the bit that drives us non-planning professionals nuts. Planners have a mantra that traffic is bad, buses, bicycles and feet are good which is a perfectly valid viewpoint. However, rather than making public transport systems more attractive planners instead choose the option to make driving worse. Its not just on the quay, there has been an infestation of additional traffic lights around the town deliberately (I presume) sited before and after roundabouts. This is causing absolute mayhem and the really annoying thing about it is it plainly isnt getting people cycling, walking or using public transport more.

Another hilarious consequence is the junction of Colbeck Street, the Mall and Catherine Street. Stand there for 5 minutes and you will see cars going through lights that are not only red for the car but the pedestrian lights are flashing green for pedestrians. it is absolutely lethal because cars are getting stranded in the middle of the junction when the traffic flow inevitably stops at almost every light change.

Whether we like it or not people are addicted to their cars and traffic planners 'chaos theory' just ain't working.

That's it in a nutshell. And as for the pedestrian crossing adjacent to the roundabout at Ardkeen...............

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

No if YOU read this thread you would see that I agree it is a total Clusterf**k as regards contractors going bust etc no one I repeat no one is arguing otherwise, my comments pertain to the planned finish product, which I believe to be sensible use of space, will allow traffic to flow slowly but smoothly, will make our Quays a safer and more pleasant place .
You on the other hand are all over the shop, I dare say you are arguing for the sake of argument, so put up or shut up, we all agree the construction phase has been a cock up, what are your opinions on the finished plans? or have you looked at them?
As I said construction is by its nature problematical to live around , if you want change you have to take some pain, we have had a longer period of pain here because the world went bust, get over it.
The Quays as they were were a disaster a four lane motorway in the middle of a city, we gave the HGV's a bypass that understandably they are reluctant to pay the toll on, so now we are slowing things down so the €6.00 will not look that big towards sitting in traffic for 20 minutes and we get the City centre back.
I think the above is good planning, what do you propose oh one who nose (sic) everything?

I've put up a long time ago. The Quays have been decimated. Well and truly. Will we be gifted unmaintained trees, such as the ones now dwarfing the Tower Hotel on the Mall?

The problem is that little or no thought seems to have gone into the knock-on effects. It's fine to smack a boulevard into the middle of a main artery - but has any thought gone into the impact of it on people's everyday lives? I think not. Just look at the previous comments from commuters affected by it.

Forcing traffic onto a bypass is not the answer. To do so you have to make it affordable. It is prohibitive. If a motorist travelling to work were to use it twice daily, five days per week it would add €1,000 net to their yearly motoring costs. I'd wager this will be pulled up within the next few years.

7upfree

S28382 wrote: »

Im disappointed i really thought you would come back with something better than that. I love the high and mighty comments that you throw at other users i bet you google every big word to check its meaning before you put it in your sentences.

Must have taken a while......

wellboytoo

7upfree wrote: »

I've put up a long time ago. The Quays have been decimated. Well and truly. Will we be gifted unmaintained trees, such as the ones now dwarfing the Tower Hotel on the Mall?

The problem is that little or no thought seems to have gone into the knock-on effects. It's fine to smack a boulevard into the middle of a main artery - but has any thought gone into the impact of it on people's everyday lives? I think not. Just look at the previous comments from commuters affected by it.

Forcing traffic onto a bypass is not the answer. To do so you have to make it affordable. It is prohibitive. If a motorist travelling to work were to use it twice daily, five days per week it would add €1,000 net to their yearly motoring costs. I'd wager this will be pulled up within the next few years.

So you just want to whinge, no plan at all, thought so, I will treat you like a troll from now on good bye.

S28382

7upfree wrote: »

Must have taken a while......

Whoops I'm lost what are you on about now? Have you run out of clever words to string together.

Ah the banter with you is mighty we are derailing this thread too much so ill leave it be for now I'm bored now because your comebacks are getting worse as it progresses.

Have a good 1 diet 7up.

7upfree

S28382 wrote: »

Whoops I'm lost what are you on about now? Have you run out of clever words to string together.

Ah the banter with you is mighty we are derailing this thread too much so ill leave it be for now I'm bored now because your comebacks are getting worse as it progresses.

Have a good 1 diet 7up.

Same to you kid.:)

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

So you just want to whinge, no plan at all, thought so, I will treat you like a troll from now on good bye.

Amazing when someone points out deficits and you - as someone with 35 years experience - just want to bury your head in the sand.

1. As you point out, it is taking the pi$$. Completely.

2. They have decimated the Quays.

3. What is this "plan" you talk of? They should have been left alone. The roundabout at the GPO is testimony to this.

4. Forcing people onto an expensive bypass is not the solution either.

And the Council not listening is the worst crime of all.

Deisekickboxing

Who decided to close the n25 goin through the mAll to stick up a few foidstalls in the middle of rushour

Cabaal

Deisekickboxing wrote: »

Who decided to close the n25 goin through the mAll to stick up a few foidstalls in the middle of rushour

err, surely you mean the R680?
The N25 doesn't run through Waterford City,

wmpdd3

I think the issue there was that the detour signs sent cars towards Waterford, across by St Declan's and then over by the John of Gods. It took me an hour to get from Ferrybank to Kilcohen.

I met a lady in tears as she was stuck and couldn't get to her 4 year old at the John of Gods, I told her to abandon her car and walk, she'd be quicker.

Tomorrow should be better as people will be more prepared, but it does show just how much traffic uses the Mall.

I think when the Green route was decided the country was awash with money and many commuters were used to paying tolls, it was just expected that all big cities would have a toll option. But now a trip across the toll is avoided until it is really necessary.

Green routes are the done thing in aspiring towns and cities but local habit isn't taken into account, look at the church goers parking in the 'bus lane' on the Dunmore Rd. The same will happen when the left hand lane of the quay is a lane and a cycle lane, people will park in the bike lane. For 50 years people have parked outside the shops on the quay and they will not stop now.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=351607304974131&set=a.339644892837039.1073741825.339641586170703&type=1&relevant_count=1

Also the flowerbeds in the middle of the quay will not stop jay walking, if anything they will encourage it, they already to.

Coming over the bridge you have 2 options, Bridge ST or the Quay, thats it. Most people using the bridge are probably going to somewhere 1km from the bridge, they, like me wouldn't use the toll for this, it would be way out of the way, let alone the cost, but I would use a bridge from Abbey park to Glenville!

O Riain

So many routes to take besides the quay yet people still take it. Does anyone know their way around the city at all??

Cabaal

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Green routes are the done thing in aspiring towns and cities but local habit isn't taken into account, look at the church goers parking in the 'bus lane' on the Dunmore Rd.

Its not local habit, its laziness and people's view that because its a mass they can just throw the car where they want with no thought to other road users. This crap goes on in almost every town and village in the country.

People don't have to park so close to the church they can use the carpark or park further away and walk.

But as we seen even at the likes of Tesco, there can be 100's of free park spaces and people will instead double park at the front door,

We need a change in attitude and the only way to do this is to force people,

The same will happen when the left hand lane of the quay is a lane and a cycle lane, people will park in the bike lane. For 50 years people have parked outside the shops on the quay and they will not stop now.

Again people being lazy, its people's parking on the quays that have caused so many parking issues over the years.

The walk people park on the quays as made much of the left hand side lane as you head down towards the bridge as useless, its incredibly frustrating and inconsiderate to other motorists.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=351607304974131&set=a.339644892837039.1073741825.339641586170703&type=1&relevant_count=1

To sort crap like this the parking wardens and gardai need to clamp down on it in a big way, though in fairness there's nothing stopping other motorists telling people off for illegal parking also.

Also the flowerbeds in the middle of the quay will not stop jay walking, if anything they will encourage it, they already to.

But the jaywalking also went on without anything in the middle of the quays and it was far far more dangerous for everyone,

Not saying jaywalking is ok, its not, infact its illegal and its the failure of people to respect this law and the gardai for not enforcing it.

It really all comes down to people's attitude to the laws and rules and respect for other road users, many people in this country just to give a monkeys but yet we love to complain about it.

wmpdd3

^^^Agreed, none of this should happen, I would like to see enforcement of basic rules of the road, but when you even have bus companies using the left lane as a parking space what hope have you (Eurolines).

I would support the erection of bollards across the city like they have done outside the Del La Salle primary school. They must be a cheaper option than a guard enforcing the rules of the road.

O Riain wrote: »

So many routes to take besides the quay yet people still take it. Does anyone know their way around the city at all??

Come over the bridge, you have the Quay or Bridge St.

The lane for Bridge st on the bridge is jammers most of the time as so many people are avoiding the quay, the lights only let 5 cars max at a time up Bridge st.

If you do get up Bridge st, best option is left at Morgan st and out the Gracedieu Rd. I usually go this way if I want the Cork Rd. / Super Quinn.

Turn down the quay and turn right at Penrose lane, usually pretty busy also, so much so they have narrowed the road at the junction with Ann st for safety. Go around Ballybricken, through Green st, then Barrack St then down College St. and onto the Cork Rd.

We printed out 2 maps with these routes and gave them to tourists that were fed up of the Quay, you should see the look on their faces, they nearly considered the toll.

Most tourists were going from Terminal St to the beaches or the Cork Rd.

But the jaywalking also went on without anything in the middle of the quays and it was far far more dangerous for everyone,

Agreed, now there 's a nice raised platform in the middle of the road so you can stop half way!

Cabaal

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I would support the erection of bollards across the city like they have done outside the Del La Salle primary school. They must be a cheaper option than a guard enforcing the rules of the road.

I did alot of walking around Waterford for the first time in two years last week and noticed these,

Its great they stop idiot parents parking basically in the classroom but they don't look great, one has to ask why the parking wardens/gardai didn't just blitz the entire street for maybe two weeks solid every day.

It likely would have had a massive impact after a good few people were fined, it would have also had the benefit of funding the government

Ok, parents would have been pissed but they'd park in the classroms if they could, its just laziness.

7upfree

O Riain wrote: »

So many routes to take besides the quay yet people still take it. Does anyone know their way around the city at all??

It really depends on where you're going though. Not everyone - believe it or not - is au fait with the alternative routes (I would be).

If, let's say, you're going from Ferrybank to De La Salle you really don't have an alternative. Especially at peak times.

7upfree

Cabaal wrote: »

I did alot of walking around Waterford for the first time in two years last week and noticed these,

Its great they stop idiot parents parking basically in the classroom but they don't look great, one has to ask why the parking wardens/gardai didn't just blitz the entire street for maybe two weeks solid every day.

It likely would have had a massive impact after a good few people were fined, it would have also had the benefit of funding the government

Ok, parents would have been pissed but they'd park in the classroms if they could, its just laziness.

The problem is that they have merely pushed the offenders up the hill. To outside the Garda barracks. Where they aren't ticketed. Now, if they won't do it outside the door, what hope is there for the rest of the City?!

I agree the bollards are an excellent idea though. I know one couple in a street where a certain busy school is located. They are prisoners in their homes four times a day. They came out one day and a guy with a jeep was parked in their driveway. And was refusing to move on the basis "he would only be there for a few minutes". A heated discussion ensued and he eventually was persuaded to move....

I passed another school one day (about twenty minutes before finishing time). There was only one car parked outside the school.......on the pedestrian crossing. Apparently that is where they park EVERY day.

Another newer school in the upper City has caused chaos in the street in which it located. Again by lazy, inconsiderate idiots.

rayc

Cabaal wrote: »

Again people being lazy, its people's parking on the quays that have caused so many parking issues over the years.

The walk people park on the quays as made much of the left hand side lane as you head down towards the bridge as useless, its incredibly frustrating and inconsiderate to other motorists.

I really don't understand how, given the anyone who drives in Waterford knows the left hand lane on the quay is an absolute joke (especially near that shop), the guards never thought it would be a good idea to patrol the quay for 1-2 weeks ticketing anyone who parked up in the left lane.This would have solved the issue years ago. God knows all my heavy handed use of the horn to anyone parked there never seemed to do any good.

Potential-Monke

Cabaal wrote: »

Not saying jaywalking is ok, its not, infact its illegal and its the failure of people to respect this law and the gardai for not enforcing it.

It is illegal (not called Jaywalking, it's in the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997, Section 46) but there's a loophole where you don't have to give the Gardai any information and they have no powers to demand it!

Cabaal wrote: »

It likely would have had a massive impact after a good few people were fined, it would have also had the benefit of funding the government

It would have an impact for a couple of weeks and it would be back to normal again.

allthedoyles

Had to detour this evening at 5pm , due to the Mall been closed , and proceed on the alternative route to Ferrybank via Barrack St / The Glen , etc , and took the shortcut onto Grattan Quay towards the bridge .

Did'nt notice any delays along the way , other than traffic lights .

taytobreath

its a beautiful city to travel around in compared to dublin or cork, we are sooo lucky.

7upfree

rayc wrote: »

I really don't understand how, given the anyone who drives in Waterford knows the left hand lane on the quay is an absolute joke (especially near that shop), the guards never thought it would be a good idea to patrol the quay for 1-2 weeks ticketing anyone who parked up in the left lane.This would have solved the issue years ago. God knows all my heavy handed use of the horn to anyone parked there never seemed to do any good.

Only dual carriageway in Ireland you could park in to buy a 99!:D