FG vs FF - Sabre Rattling

finisklin

Ballina looks to push ahead with CCTV

Mayo Advertiser, September 24, 2010.


Colm Gannon



The reality of Ballina getting a monitored CCTV system moved a step closer this week. Chairperson of the Ballina Joint Policing Committee, Ballina town councillor Johnny O’Malley, told members that following a number of meetings, the project was ready to go forward to an application stage for funding under the RAPID programme. Ballina is one of a number of towns across the country which was given RAPID status, which makes funding available for a number of programmes to revitalise areas in the town.

The CCTV plan for Ballina would see 11 cameras installed initially at various locations around the town. The proposed locations include Teeling Street car park and the junction of Pearse Street, Tolan Street, and Tone Street. A camera is planned for Tolan Street which would look down Abbey Street, Bridge Street; and Cathedral Road, and another camera would be placed at the Emmet Street car park. Two cameras are planned for Humbert Street, one on the street and one in the car park. There are also plans to put two cameras at the junction of Tone Street and Market Street, a camera at the corner of Pound Street and Teeling Street, and one at the junction of Teeling Street and Lord Edward Street looking on Lord Edward Street, New Barry Street, and Bury Street.

Two mobile camera units are also planned. These will be located in Ardnaree and Parkside. The cost of the project will be €17,000 per camera, with an additional standing charge of €1,000 per year for each camera, along with maintenance costs if needed. Cllr O’Malley told the meeting that the gardaí in Ballina had agreed to monitor the CCTV cameras, with the “brains” of the scheme housed in the town council offices. Cllr O’Malley went on to say that three firms had been contacted about the scheme and the costs, and the network would be run over a fibreoptic system or by microwave technology, depending on the costs. Cllr O’Malley told the meeting that it was hoped to have the funding in place by February 2011 and the installation to follow soon after.


Looks like some creative accounting was going on......

headmaster

Ilovelucy wrote: »

I'd love to find a link to where Dara actually promised this as ringfenced. I have googled away to my hearts delight but can find nothing.

Like a lot of things FF did, there's no trace of it. On mature reflection, i'm sure of that

oscarBravo

headmaster wrote: »

FG now letting Mayo down, have let Roscommon down, have let Tipperarry down, have let Mullingar/Westmeath down, making a mess in Dublin and got their by election answer, plenty of other counties being whipped. Don't for one second think that the electorate of this country are not watching, we are and we're waiting in the long grass for Fg and to a lesser extent Labour. The time for blaming FF is over and well gone. Stand up Kenny, be ready to take a huge beating, because that's exactly what you'll be handed. Guaranteed.

I see a lot of this sort of commentary recently. The popular view seems to be that the government should spend money we don't have and can't borrow in order to give everyone everything they want.

I want a pony. Can I have a pony?



Seriously, can we have a law against bitching about government cuts unless it's accompanied by detailed and costed proposals for how the services that are being cut should be paid for?

HarryPotter41

oscarBravo wrote: »

I see a lot of this sort of commentary recently. The popular view seems to be that the government should spend money we don't have and can't borrow in order to give everyone everything they want.

I want a pony. Can I have a pony?



Seriously, can we have a law against bitching about government cuts unless it's accompanied by detailed and costed proposals for how the services that are being cut should be paid for?

I think the reaction is to the promises made in the full knowledge after having seen the books that they could not be kept.

finisklin

oscarBravo wrote: »

I see a lot of this sort of commentary recently. The popular view seems to be that the government should spend money we don't have and can't borrow in order to give everyone everything they want.

I want a pony. Can I have a pony?



Seriously, can we have a law against bitching about government cuts unless it's accompanied by detailed and costed proposals for how the services that are being cut should be paid for?

People are perfectly entitled to bitch about public cuts as people are feeling the bite, seeing love one's leave the country and the elderly putting a very brave face on it. This time of year more so.....

What galls me is the waste of public money and perhaps on a very micro scale the recent cycle lanes for Ballina are that - a complete waste of money in the current climate. That perhaps is a good place to start with the cuts.....frivolous spending.

This is off topic....and given some of the reaction on here politics and politicians are far removed from the reality of my life and how other posters are coping with the recession.

Perhaps though this is the new politics - far removed from the everyday person so the elite can bleed us dry?

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I think the reaction is to the promises made in the full knowledge after having seen the books that they could not be kept.

Agghhh only one thing ted, they saw the books before they made the promises :cool:

oscarBravo

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I think the reaction is to the promises made in the full knowledge after having seen the books that they could not be kept.

I seem to recall being told before the election that the next several budgets were going to have to be painful. In fact, it was only the left-wing loony fringe parties that knew they hadn't a prayer of being in government that told us we could all have ponies, or whatever.

finisklin wrote: »

People are perfectly entitled to bitch about public cuts as people are feeling the bite, seeing love one's leave the country and the elderly putting a very brave face on it. This time of year more so.....

Leaving aside the word "entitled", which is a word that gets my hackles up anyway, it's one thing bitching and moaning (it is, after all, a national pastime) but it's another to bang on about how Fine Gael will be crucified at the next election for being so unspeakably evil as to try to rein in public spending to somewhere marginally closer to what we can actually afford to spend.

There's a widespread belief out there that we don't need austerity. In practical terms, that's the belief that we can continue indefinitely to spend money we don't have and can't borrow. If people want to bitch about the government refusing to indulge their fantasies, fair enough - but I reserve the right to point out the fallacy in such bitching.

What galls me is the waste of public money and perhaps on a very micro scale the recent cycle lanes for Ballina are that - a complete waste of money in the current climate. That perhaps is a good place to start with the cuts.....frivolous spending.

I guess the guy filling in the enormous potholes on my road, and digging in a drainage culvert to help prevent them happening again, is frivolous spending by those lights, but - in the scheme of things - it's not making a dent in the public finances, and I'd rather not make my contribution to the national welfare by having to replace suspension components and tyres more often than necessary.

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

Agghhh only one thing ted, they saw the books before they made the promises :cool:

Which is exactly what I was saying

HarryPotter41

oscarBravo wrote: »

I seem to recall being told before the election that the next several budgets were going to have to be painful. In fact, it was only the left-wing loony fringe parties that knew they hadn't a prayer of being in government that told us we could all have ponies, or whatever.

It was Fine Gael who said they would burn the bindholders - no ya won't. It was Labour who said "Frankfurts way or Labours Way" - we know how that one panned out. It was Enda Kenny that promised the people of Roscommon Town their A and E wouldn't close - enough said. It was Enda Kenny who told a disabled girl that there would not be cuts to disability supports - enough said.

Thats whats galling people, they knew deep down they could not guarantte one of these things, they even tried the old 80's play of "we didn't know how bad things were" despite having been given total access to the figures and projections.

I agree that we need to get out of this and I think its ridiculous having elected TD's promising to break the law on the household charge, while I don't like it, I will pay it because I have to. The issue people have is with all the dogs FG and Lab put up in windows to get elected.

finisklin

People are entitled to moan and complain about our plight.......our national debt is €118bn which works out at €26k per person.

I haven't seen your road but if it means more money in your pocket as a result happy daze. At this stage it is all about survival and providing for our children. Ain't no light at the end of the tunnel.

One thing for sure....there's no difference between FF & FG as it's Frankfurt calling the shots. I'm just disappointed that Calleary let himself down on this rapid funding. I bought into his honest broker image and he's no different to the rest of the FF brigade. Then to be caught out by Mulhearn, makes it twice as bad.

headmaster

oscarBravo wrote: »

I see a lot of this sort of commentary recently. The popular view seems to be that the government should spend money we don't have and can't borrow in order to give everyone everything they want.

I want a pony. Can I have a pony?



Seriously, can we have a law against bitching about government cuts unless it's accompanied by detailed and costed proposals for how the services that are being cut should be paid for?

Oh right Oscar,
we'll give you the forum for yourself and take care would anyone else have an opinion.As can be seen from todays news, this goverment is goin down boy. You might not agree with that viewpoint, but hey, suck it up ya morán. They're goin to get whipped, same as the last ones got whipped, until we the people, get someone who will listen, then do more or less the right thing. Comprende?

**MOD NOTE - banned for personal abuse. **MOD NOTE -

finisklin

No difference between FF, FG, Labour etc. It's all me fein, elitist class.

BTW, express your opinion but no need to make it personal.

oscarBravo

I will agree that no party should promise what they can't deliver, but we as the electorate have ourselves to blame for the quality of our representatives. We demand that candidates lie to us, because we won't elect anyone who tells us the truth. It's a sad, frigged up situation, but the joy of a democracy is that you get the government you deserve.

I mean, seriously: did anyone believe everything they were told by the candidates in the last election campaign? Because if you did, I have a bridge you may be interested in.

finisklin

oscarBravo wrote: »

......., but we as the electorate have ourselves to blame for the quality of our representatives....... but the joy of a democracy is that you get the government you deserve.

I'm not sure about blaming the electorate for the quality of the representatives that are elected. Why? Over the last 20 years the incentives to be in politics has changed - it has gone from having politicians who have a genuine, sincere sense of bettering their community and empowered to do so, to politicians whose only ambition is to increase their own self worth.

There are countless examples of this on the national stage (and with a strong FF pedigree) but the local politicians on town councils, county councils leave a lot to be desired. The return (contribution) on their pay/expenses is ridiculous and given some of the assine comments (or even lack of) on local matters makes their positions even more outrageous.

The only qualification you need to be a politician is to get more votes than the next candidate - it is not based on experience, qualifications background etc. Plus if you are a member of a political party and even have political heritage all the better, as this paves the way despite the experience you have or lack of........

Any examples to get the ball rolling, from any party?

HarryPotter41

With regard to the original question asked my queries re the RAPID funding led me to be told that previous replies from Phil Hogan to DC are quite clear that projects were being considered under this allegedly non existent funding. Why would Phil Hofan say this if the funding wasn't actually ring fenced.

All qoutes are fron the Oireachtas website and are replies to questions from DC:

May 18th

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/05/18/00028.asp

Phil Hogan : In December 2009, the previous Government gave approval for disbursements from the Dormant Accounts Fund for a once-off measure up to the value of €1.25 million over 2010-11 for the five new provincial towns incorporated under RAPID. In late December 2010, Pobal, which advertises, appraises and recommends beneficiaries under various dormant accounts measures, submitted recommendations to the Department for the RAPID additionality measure............. I can confirm that eight projects have been prioritised by Pobal under the RAPID additionality measure for Ballina. These are currently being considered by my Department in the context of the reduced level of funding available in the current year, and also in the context of the review of expenditure that is being undertaken. Any decisions arising will be notified to all applicants as soon as possible. I have discussed with my Department, as recently as this morning, the five towns and the issues associated with funding for these new proposals with a view to making progress thereon. I do not expect to be in a position to make progress on the ambitious programme launched in 2010 but I will be considering the submissions of the towns to see what progress can be made on any aspects thereof. I have asked my Department to expedite the proposals in view of the fact that they relate to disadvantaged areas.

Novemeber 22nd

Phil Hogan: I assume the questions refer to the decision to approve disbursements from the Dormant Accounts Fund for a once-off measure up to the value of €1.25m for the five new provincial towns incorporated under RAPID. These are Ballina, Dungarvan, Enniscorthy, Mullingar and Rathkeale. Under Government Accounting procedures, disbursements on Dormant Accounts measures are paid in the first instance “up front” from a Department’s Vote in the same way as with any other spending programme. The Dormant Accounts capital budget for my Department for 2011 is fully committed to existing projects and our priority in the light of that allocation must be to ensure that there is sufficient funding available to meet existing legal contractual commitments. Accordingly, the matter of progressing projects in the new RAPID towns to contract stage will be kept under active review in the light of availability of funding/ levels of expenditure across my Department’s Vote during 2011 and into 2012.

finisklin

Spin, spin, spin...Harry I'm getting you a yo yo for Xmas!

DC announded this in 2009 and took the credit for it. He paraded O'Cuiv through out the town and in no small way was it indicated that this wouldn't happen. The fact that the money was in a dormant account fund, meant that it was already there, in existence!

For what's it's worth this is creative accounting initiated by FF, that fund was then plundered (or sequestered somewhere else a la Bran lenihan in Finance) and Big Phil is now carrying on the charade that there is money there but not for Rapid in Ballina, despite it being two years down the line!

DC must be ripping to get caught out by Mulhearn so blatantly.....the shame of it. :mad:

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

Spin, spin, spin...Harry I'm getting you a yo yo for Xmas!

DC announded this in 2009 and took the credit for it. He paraded O'Cuiv through out the town and in no small way was it indicated that this wouldn't happen. The fact that the money was in a dormant account fund, meant that it was already there, in existence!

For what's it's worth this is creative accounting initiated by FF, that fund was then plundered (or sequestered somewhere else a la Bran lenihan in Finance) and Big Phil is now carrying on the charade that there is money there but not for Rapid in Ballina, despite it being two years down the line!

DC must be ripping to get caught out by Mulhearn so blatantly.....the shame of it. :mad:

How is it spin, in replies in the Dail the Minister states clearly that funding was made available through dormant accounts. He also states that this money is paid through his department first and then claimed from dormant accounts. At no point in any parliamentary reply does he state that this money was never made available. This is what MM is now claiming. If this was the case why does Phil Hogan constantly refer to this funding if non existent.

The only spin here is being carried out somewhere within FG.

Explain to me Phil Hogans answers, one of which was a joint answer to Patrick O'Donnell TD, take a look at the Dail record. I can't spin something that is clear in black and white and in the Dail record.

finisklin

The reality of this is that the funding is never going to materialise and this was known when it was announced. It was spun as a massive windfall for the towns and linked to dormant accounts fund made it even more plausible.

The fact is that this funding hasn't been delivered for the area despite DC cashing in on the political capital it generated at the announcment. And as Big Phill points out he has to meet contract/existing payments first. With his budget significantly reduced, it makes sense to dip into the dormants accounts fund to ensure existing projects are financed. That's good budget management.

Creative accounting.....and this funding won't be coming to Ballina in 2012, 13, 14 or beyond.

I can understand DC's silence......his street cred has diminished with Mulhearn outing him so publicly.

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

The reality of this is that the funding is never going to materialise and this was known when it was announced. It was spun as a massive windfall for the towns and linked to dormant accounts fund made it even more plausible.

The fact is that this funding hasn't been delivered for the area despite DC cashing in on the political capital it generated at the announcment. And as Big Phill points out he has to meet contract/existing payments first. With his budget significantly reduced, it makes sense to dip into the dormants accounts fund to ensure existing projects are financed. That's good budget management.

Creative accounting.....and this funding won't be coming to Ballina in 2012, 13, 14 or beyond.

I can understand DC's silence......his street cred has diminished with Mulhearn outing him so publicly.

How is that the reality when Phil Hogans answers are clear where he states that the funding was allocated by the previous government. "In December 2009, the previous Government gave approval for disbursements from the Dormant Accounts Fund for a once-off measure up to the value of €1.25 million over 2010-11 for the five new provincial towns incorporated under RAPID. In late December 2010, Pobal, which advertises, appraises and recommends beneficiaries under various dormant accounts measures, submitted recommendations to the Department for the RAPID additionality measure............. I can confirm that eight projects have been prioritised by Pobal under the RAPID additionality measure for Ballina. These are currently being considered by my Department in the context of the reduced level of funding available in the current year, and also in the context of the review of expenditure that is being undertaken."

I am failing to see even in the reply from Phil Hogan where the commitment from the previous government was never going to happen.

finisklin

This funding was never going to materialise and never will, as pointed out by Big Phil "in the context of the review of expenditure being undertaken".

DC claimed that this cash was forthcoming and scooped the kudos. Now that FF is out of power he can blame FG for not delivering it. Either way this is not going to materialise and to be put on the back foot like this by Mulhearn marks a first (bar their other spat).

Is there more to come out of DC's political closet? :cool:

Looks like Sherlock Mulhearn is on the case. :eek:

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

This funding was never going to materialise and never will, as pointed out by Big Phil "in the context of the review of expenditure being undertaken".

DC claimed that this cash was forthcoming and scooped the kudos. Now that FF is out of power he can blame FG for not delivering it. Either way this is not going to materialise and to be put on the back foot like this by Mulhearn marks a first (bar their other spat).

Is there more to come out of DC's political closet? :cool:

Looks like Sherlock Mulhearn is on the case. :eek:

On what basis can you categorically state that the funding was never going to materialise? The funding was allocated, which was ackonoledged by Minister Hogan so you seem to be clutching at straws in your assertions.Has she any opinions on the closing of beds in Ballina Hospital or on the closing of psychiatric facilities? She seems very quiet on those.

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

On what basis can you categorically state that the funding was never going to materialise? The funding was allocated, which was ackonoledged by Minister Hogan so you seem to be clutching at straws in your assertions.Has she any opinions on the closing of beds in Ballina Hospital or on the closing of psychiatric facilities? She seems very quiet on those.

The basis is as follows;

• Two years since the announcement, still no cheese
• Minister Hogan has indicated that there is a expenditure review in place (which will be in place for eternity, given our economic predicament).
• The country's national debt is €130bn and the fiscal management of the country is now in German hands.

Though the town did scrape through €100k for the cycle lanes and if money can be frittered away on that then anything can happen.

If only ringer was from the 'Na! He'd stick it to Big Phil.

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

The basis is as follows;

• Two years since the announcement, still no cheese
• Minister Hogan has indicated that there is a expenditure review in place (which will be in place for eternity, given our economic predicament).
• The country's national debt is €130bn and the fiscal management of the country is now in German hands.

Though the town did scrape through €100k for the cycle lanes and if money can be frittered away on that then anything can happen.

If only ringer was from the 'Na! He'd stick it to Big Phil.

Considering that applications had to be made for the money it was hardly going to appear overnight, the expenditure is in place currently which in no way affects the fact that the money was allocated at the time, the fiscal management of the country is in german hands which still does not change the fact that the money was allocated as alrady acknowledged in the Dail by Phil Hogan. None of what you say backs up your assertion that the money was never available, or the assertion of MM that it was never allocated when her own line Minister says it was allocated by the previous government.

Do I hear the rustle of the straws you are clutching to?

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Do I hear the rustle of the straws you are clutching to?

Not sure about that....maybe FF jack boots :P

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

Not sure about that....maybe FF jack boots :P

Thats where you are totally confused, jack boots were never worn by people in FF, not sure if you look at the history of FG if the same can be said.

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Thats where you are totally confused, jack boots were never worn by people in FF, not sure if you look at the history of FG if the same can be said.

Harry, I must have misunderstood one of your previous comments on a different thread about Mein Bertie and his Iron Fist apporach of running the FF party.

Good to see that you are a student of History as well as Local Political Science!

finisklin

Anybody know what this funding will be spent on? 300k for Ballina and 400k for Castlebar is a nice windwall.

More here.....
http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/47897/over-700000-in-funding-assigned-to-boost-castlebar-and-ballina

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

Harry, I must have misunderstood one of your previous comments on a different thread about Mein Bertie and his Iron Fist apporach of running the FF party.

Good to see that you are a student of History as well as Local Political Science!

Running a party with an iron fist is not the same as having an ancilliary political grouping.

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Running a party with an iron fist is not the same as having an ancilliary political grouping.

I thought that was what you meant by Bertie's leadership style of disenfranchising the party and creating the ancillary political grouping.:p

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

I thought that was what you meant by Bertie's leadership style of disenfranchising the party and creating the ancillary political grouping.:p

Not quite sure how you could stretch what I said to that, but then again you seem to be capable of stretching MM's abilities to being an effective public rep and that is quite a stretch.