Vehicle Gallery - Discussion Thread

Nice spot of driving on the hard shoulder there Capri.

Capri

foreign wrote: »

Nice spot of driving on the hard shoulder there Capri.

You will observe , looking closer, that I was STOPPED :rolleyes: or a suicide pilot ready to total the camera van :P

Capri

Capri wrote: »

You will observe , looking closer, that I was STOPPED :rolleyes: or a suicide pilot ready to total the camera van :P

Noticed that alright.

EireGun

Does anyone know when the armed Regional Support Units are getting new vehicles?

They've had the Volvo XC70 since 2008 I think, and a couple have 2009 reg plates. Surely they must be breaking the 300,000km barrier fairly soon. The only other marked vehicle I've seen the RSU use is the BMW X5, but that is from 2005 and so that must be well past 300k.

The Guards were trialling a new BMW 5 Series Touring about a year ago, and it would be up to the Volvo XC70 standard in my opinion... http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmcmenamin86/7585724654/in/photostream/

Should they stick with Volvo, or go looking for an alternative?

EireGun

EireGun wrote: »

Does anyone know when the armed Regional Support Units are getting new vehicles?

They've had the Volvo XC70 since 2008 I think, and a couple have 2009 reg plates. Surely they must be breaking the 300,000km barrier fairly soon. The only other marked vehicle I've seen the RSU use is the BMW X5, but that is from 2005 and so that must be well past 300k.

The Guards were trialling a new BMW 5 Series Touring about a year ago, and it would be up to the Volvo XC70 standard in my opinion... http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmcmenamin86/7585724654/in/photostream/

Should they stick with Volvo, or go looking for an alternative?

The XC70 that they have is a police special built to their spec. I would imagine the 300k rule doesn't apply to them. Just like it doesn't apple to other vehicles in the fleet.

Section_4

foreign wrote: »

The XC70 that they have is a police special built to their spec. I would imagine the 300k rule doesn't apply to them. Just like it doesn't apple to other vehicles in the fleet.

The 300,000 km rule applies to every car and van in the fleet.

The XC70 is suited to high speed driving along motorways and dual carriage ways, due to the poor handling characteristics of the XC70 it is not a competent pursuit vehicle or that adept for dynamic driving through twisty estate / county roads.

The 2006/2007 era 2.0 litre petrol Mondeos were the best all round car bought en masse by AGS thus far.

I suspect the BMW police edition 530d estate would be at the top of the RSUs (and every other units) wish list.

D Trent

Section_4 wrote: »

The 300,000 km rule applies to every car and van in the fleet.

The XC70 is suited to high speed driving along motorways and dual carriage ways, due to the poor handling characteristics of the XC70 it is not a competent pursuit vehicle or that adept for dynamic driving through twisty estate / county roads.

The 2006/2007 era 2.0 litre petrol Mondeos were the best all round car bought en masse by AGS thus far.

I suspect the BMW police edition 530d estate would be at the top of the RSUs (and every other units) wish list.

Might be a rookie Q to ask section 4 but would the handling of the mondeo be as good whether it was a 2.0l petrol or the 2.0l diesel TC have now?

Section_4

D Trent wrote: »

Might be a rookie Q to ask section 4 but would the handling of the mondeo be as good whether it was a 2.0l petrol or the 2.0l diesel TC have now?

The 2.0 petrol handles better. The 2.0 Mondeo has a lighter engine than the 2.0 diesel with broadly similar power figures (diesel has more torque but it can't be applied as liberally without inducing wheel spin and/or under steer). The 2.0 diesel powered cars are ideal for motor/dual carriage way work while the petrol engined cars are better suited for responsive driving in suburban and city environments.

The current Fords do not handle as well as the previous generation, the power steering is an electric motor system versus the old generations hydraulic set up. The current cars are also larger and heavier without corresponding improvements in power and braking systems.

Section_4

Section_4 wrote: »

The 300,000 km rule applies to every car and van in the fleet.

Actually sure one of the mechanics in the depot said that it's only the cars that are 300K.

carzony

I thought van and jeeps had to do 6000,000? I defo read that on here somewhere?

Mr Simpson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually sure one of the mechanics in the depot said that it's only the cars that are 300K.

I've heard that as well. 600K for vans

POGAN

EireGun wrote: »

Does anyone know when the armed Regional Support Units are getting new vehicles?

They've had the Volvo XC70 since 2008 I think, and a couple have 2009 reg plates. Surely they must be breaking the 300,000km barrier fairly soon. The only other marked vehicle I've seen the RSU use is the BMW X5, but that is from 2005 and so that must be well past 300k.

The Guards were trialling a new BMW 5 Series Touring about a year ago, and it would be up to the Volvo XC70 standard in my opinion... http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmcmenamin86/7585724654/in/photostream/

Should they stick with Volvo, or go looking for an alternative?

There will be tender next year I would think but skoda is front runner with the lads in the college and on the unit.

RSU xc70 is police spec car are not covered by 300,000km grounding rule. That x5 was seized car from well known crime family in limerick it is one of two seized it was respray white and marked up as it is bulletrestiant it replaced one of xc70 crashed in cork.

POGAN

Mr Simpson wrote: »

I've heard that as well. 600K for vans

Yes foreign is correct the dmaxs, connect vans, transits (07/08) and the land cruiser all all between 500,000km n 600,000

Cars are all 300,000km

Old diesel

POGAN wrote: »

There will be tender next year I would think but skoda is front runner with the lads in the college and on the unit.

RSU xc70 is police spec car are not covered by 300,000km grounding rule. That x5 was seized car from well known crime family in limerick it is one of two seized it was respray white and marked up as it is bulletrestiant it replaced one of xc70 crashed in cork.

Would the Skoda have the power for the job though - if AGS insist on having diesel. Top rating on them is 170 bhp - no???.

Of course sir could always order in the 3.6 v6 - but realistically this is Ireland and thus pigs would start flying before that would happen - lol.

EireGun

Section_4 wrote: »

The 300,000 km rule applies to every car and van in the fleet.

The XC70 is suited to high speed driving along motorways and dual carriage ways, due to the poor handling characteristics of the XC70 it is not a competent pursuit vehicle or that adept for dynamic driving through twisty estate / county roads.

The 2006/2007 era 2.0 litre petrol Mondeos were the best all round car bought en masse by AGS thus far.

I suspect the BMW police edition 530d estate would be at the top of the RSUs (and every other units) wish list.

The RSU going from a high spec Volvo police special to a Ford Mondeo sounds like a downgrade to me. The Fords might be fine for traffic duties, etc. but the Brits use BMW 3 and 5 series for their ARVs and the PSNI use the Audi A6 estates now for their ARVs (marked and unmarked) https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/8684019336/

Maybe another fleet of Volvos wouldn't be so bad.

POGAN

EireGun wrote: »

The RSU going from a high spec Volvo police special to a Ford Mondeo sounds like a downgrade to me. The Fords might be fine for traffic duties, etc. but the Brits use BMW 3 and 5 series for their ARVs and the PSNI use the Audi A6 estates now for their ARVs (marked and unmarked) https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/8684019336/

Maybe another fleet of Volvos wouldn't be so bad.

Not hope getting Audis current fleet, ERU did get q7 tho but one car they would least need 30 cars over 12 month period

Volvos cost in 2008 €30 million money not there like anymore

Section_4

EireGun wrote: »

The RSU going from a high spec Volvo police special to a Ford Mondeo sounds like a downgrade to me. The Fords might be fine for traffic duties, etc. but the Brits use BMW 3 and 5 series for their ARVs and the PSNI use the Audi A6 estates now for their ARVs (marked and unmarked) https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/8684019336/

Maybe another fleet of Volvos wouldn't be so bad.

I was not suggesting 2.0 Mondeos for the RSU, just commenting on how well the 2006/2007 Mondeos held up and that AGS haven't, to date, been able to replace them with anything comparable as they proved be excellent all round vehicles.

I think BMW 530d Tourings for RSU, regional Traffic Corps and the like would be the best option (albeit probably not politically or economically viable at the moment).

Section_4

POGAN wrote: »

Yes foreign is correct the dmaxs, connect vans, transits (07/08) and the land cruiser all all between 500,000km n 600,000

Cars are all 300,000km

I won't go into it on a public forum but didn't the GRA say not to go over the 300k mark, regardless of the vehicle?

I understand the new Connects were bought with a higher end mileage limit but that was at the concession of the manufacture who is now willing to stand over the chassis's integrity past 300k?

Imagine what a patrol car would be like at 400k.......

EireGun

POGAN wrote: »

Not hope getting Audis current fleet, ERU did get q7 tho but one car they would least need 30 cars over 12 month period

Volvos cost in 2008 €30 million money not there like anymore

There were 30 Volvos delivered in 2008/2009 for the RSU, am I right? That's 6 per region (average), I am sure a few have been totalled in the 5 years they've had them. They replaced one with a seized 2005 BMW X5 (high security I think) in Cork, that's all I know of personally.

The 30 Volvos cost €30 Million in 2008 (I heard that figure mentioned before too)? That works out at €1 Million per Volvo XC70?
The BMW 5 Series Touring or Audi A6 Touring (high spec.) works out at about €50,000 for me or you to buy, x30 is €1.5M, I guess when you factor in kitting them out, training, maintenance (fuel?) it would be double that figure, but not €30M surely?...

EireGun

POGAN wrote: »

Not hope getting Audis current fleet, ERU did get q7 tho but one car they would least need 30 cars over 12 month period

Volvos cost in 2008 €30 million money not there like anymore

This is that ERU Audi Q7... image[4].png

Section_4

Section_4 wrote: »

Imagine what a patrol car would be like at 400k.......

Most of those 07 Mondeos would be fine and preferred to the Avensis that replaced them.

Section_4

foreign wrote: »

Most of those 07 Mondeos would be fine and preferred to the Avensis that replaced them.

I'm not sure how fine they'd be after 400k but still definatly preferable to the Toyotas!

POGAN

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Most of those 07 Mondeos would be fine and preferred to the Avensis that replaced them.

You really hate your avenais foreign

POGAN

EireGun wrote: »

This is that ERU Audi Q7... image[4].png

That's cork city BMW X5

POGAN

POGAN wrote: »

You really hate your avenais foreign

Fine for tipping around in. Horrible when responding.

Mister Jingles

foreign wrote: »

Fine for tipping around in. Horrible when responding.

The cars in general or the fact that there diesel ?

goldie fish

Mister Jingles wrote: »

The cars in general or the fact that there diesel ?

In my opinion, the Avensis. Drives like you are on stilts. No road feel. A bus.

Mister Jingles

Mister Jingles wrote: »

The cars in general or the fact that there diesel ?

Handling. Not as sturdy as the old Mondeo at cornering.

Old diesel

Those Audi A6s on the car transporter that were posted really look the business.

Would they actually be up to the job though in terms of long term durability.

Have to be a massive improvement on a 2.0 diesel Avensis though as traffic cars surely (assuming you actually spec them up properly - 3.0 tdi with Quattro - proper car on paper for stuff like traffic).

EireGun

Old diesel wrote: »

Those Audi A6s on the car transporter that were posted really look the business.

Would they actually be up to the job though in terms of long term durability.

Have to be a massive improvement on a 2.0 diesel Avensis though as traffic cars surely (assuming you actually spec them up properly - 3.0 tdi with Quattro - proper car on paper for stuff like traffic).

I don't think the Audis would be replacing Mondeo/Focus/Avensis anytime soon due to cost, but they could be up to the job of succeeding the Volvo XC70 the Garda RSU are using. Many of the British police traffic and armed units have been using the Audi A4 and A6 for a number of years now, and most of them still look to be in good shape. The BMW 3 and 5 Series have also kept well, particularly the London Met. old 5 series, they had some of them for a decade. The Audi A6 the PSNI ARV units are using seem to be doing the business for them, they are very quick and the handling is supposedly very good. Fuel consumption diesel for Audis has never been a problem in my experience, quality German-made Volkswagen engines.

Old diesel

EireGun wrote: »

I don't think the Audis would be replacing Mondeo/Focus/Avensis anytime soon due to cost, but they could be up to the job of succeeding the Volvo XC70 the Garda RSU are using. Many of the British police traffic and armed units have been using the Audi A4 and A6 for a number of years now, and most of them still look to be in good shape. The BMW 3 and 5 Series have also kept well, particularly the London Met. old 5 series, they had some of them for a decade. The Audi A6 the PSNI ARV units are using seem to be doing the business for them, they are very quick and the handling is supposedly very good. Fuel consumption diesel for Audis has never been a problem in my experience, quality German-made Volkswagen engines.

Oh certainly I can see that in theory cost means you won't be seeing Audis replacing Focuses and Mondeos for the normal garda work any day soon.

However for traffic corps work - what is the actual extra cost of a BMW 530d touring or an Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 tdi compared to a 2.0 140 ps Mondeo Estate.

Ive heard on another forum that im on - a Uk forum - that the Uk police do extremely good deals on 530ds and the like.

I can't say for certain what that translates into in terms of actual cost per car or how that would compare to what the Gardaí would pay for Mondeo 2 litre diesels.

But I doubt somehow that the gardai are getting Mondeos for the price I saw mentioned for a police 530ds - have visions of "oh this is Ireland - so the cars thus cost more :rolleyes: even though the states funding it so the actual cost to the state should be exclusive of VRT and such nonsense.

I stress the word "should" - I imagine that there are people in high office in Ireland who think that having the state charge another arm of the state VRT actually makes sense :rolleyes:.

Afterall - if the Garda Siochana pays the state VRT - that means every car costs more - but the state doesn't get any benefit - it would be better if you deducted VRT - each car then costs the Gardaí less - but the state doesn't lose out because the state has to allocate less money for Garda cars.

But certainly - if I were the person buying garda cars for the state - id be pushing hard to see what the best deal Audi and BMW could do for the sale of police cars - and then - make the judgement call and see how that compared to the cost of a Mondeo 2 litre diesel.

Section_4

Old diesel wrote: »

Oh certainly I can see that in theory cost means you won't be seeing Audis replacing Focuses and Mondeos for the normal garda work any day soon.

However for traffic corps work - what is the actual extra cost of a BMW 530d touring or an Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 tdi compared to a 2.0 140 ps Mondeo Estate.

Ive heard on another forum that im on - a Uk forum - that the Uk police do extremely good deals on 530ds and the like.

I can't say for certain what that translates into in terms of actual cost per car or how that would compare to what the Gardaí would pay for Mondeo 2 litre diesels.

But I doubt somehow that the gardai are getting Mondeos for the price I saw mentioned for a police 530ds - have visions of "oh this is Ireland - so the cars thus cost more :rolleyes: even though the states funding it so the actual cost to the state should be exclusive of VRT and such nonsense.

I stress the word "should" - I imagine that there are people in high office in Ireland who think that having the state charge another arm of the state VRT actually makes sense :rolleyes:.

Afterall - if the Garda Siochana pays the state VRT - that means every car costs more - but the state doesn't get any benefit - it would be better if you deducted VRT - each car then costs the Gardaí less - but the state doesn't lose out because the state has to allocate less money for Garda cars.

But certainly - if I were the person buying garda cars for the state - id be pushing hard to see what the best deal Audi and BMW could do for the sale of police cars - and then - make the judgement call and see how that compared to the cost of a Mondeo 2 litre diesel.

2.0 litre diesel Mondeos?!

Try bog standard 1.6 litre diesel Focus and Connects in white with some flashy lights and nice decals.

Some hope of getting a 2.0 litre diesel Mondeo let alone a police spec BMW or Audi!

3fullback

Is it true that each district hq must have a 1.8 litre petrol or higher ?

Leo Demidov

Regarding GPO protest video, not really a vehicle, but yes I would.

kub

3fullback wrote: »

Is it true that each district hq must have a 1.8 litre petrol or higher ?

Absolutely that is why the Garda prison trucks are popping up in districts all over the country.

Old diesel

Section_4 wrote: »

2.0 litre diesel Mondeos?!

Try bog standard 1.6 litre diesel Focus and Connects in white with some flashy lights and nice decals.

Some hope of getting a 2.0 litre diesel Mondeo let alone a police spec BMW or Audi!

I was referring to 2.0 Mondeo diesels for traffic rather then the normal regular gardai.

Although it wouldn't surprise me in the least if someone decided to use a 1.6 diesel for traffic over here.

Seen a Focus Estate pictured somewhere which had traffic corps marked on it. Doubt somehow that twas the 1.6 Ecoboost 180 ps petrol (probably not available in Ireland anyhow - but is in the UK).

My point - albeit not made very well - is that sadly I can imagine all too clearly given the way things are often done in Ireland - a situation where Ireland pays dear for 1.6 diesels - while the Uk drives a hard bargin and gets nice BMWs with the proper spec for the job - on the cheap.

UK police are under massive budgetry pressures as well - so I doubt all the BMW 530ds and Audis are down to simply having a better budget.

D Trent

Old diesel wrote: »

I was referring to 2.0 Mondeo diesels for traffic rather then the normal regular gardai.

Although it wouldn't surprise me in the least if someone decided to use a 1.6 diesel for traffic over here.

Seen a Focus Estate pictured somewhere which had traffic corps marked on it.

1.6L diesel

Mister Jingles

They do look well though, there's no denying that, its just lacking under the bonnet.

Old diesel

D Trent wrote: »

1.6L diesel

"1.6 diesel" - Says it all really - would love to see what the real saving (or lack of) compared to a proper traffic police car.

Think it all sums up how official Ireland sees the day to day business of policing - ie lets do the thing all wrong .

So many issues to be dealt with - and I know the issue of whether sir opts for a 2.0 diesel Mondeo (or 1.6 diesel Focus :eek:) for traffic over a 530d or 3.0 TDI A6 Quattro - is rather a small minor detail compared to lots of other issues in Ireland and indeed the Gardaí.

Does sum up the attitude in official Ireland towards doing things right - but that's another topic for another day, another forum

Zambia

wexfjord wrote: »

Regarding GPO protest video, not really a vehicle, but yes I would.

You out of my head...

D Trent

That guard showed remarkable level - headedness dealing with that piece of scum.
If that was me I probably would have radioed for back up from Ronanstown's finest and batter seven shades of ****e out of him back at the station

carzony

D Trent wrote: »

That guard showed remarkable level - headedness dealing with that piece of scum.
If that was me I probably would have radioed for back up from Ronanstown's finest and batter seven shades of ****e out of him back at the station

I'd imagine back up arrived shortly after. You could see her at her radio as she walked away.

tosspot15

yeah "not arrested". I'm sure thats why the knobhead filming it stopped before backup arrived and they sorted him out.

Capri

Old diesel wrote: »

"1.6 diesel" - Says it all really - would love to see what the real saving (or lack of) compared to a proper traffic police car.

Think it all sums up how official Ireland sees the day to day business of policing - ie lets do the thing all wrong .

So many issues to be dealt with - and I know the issue of whether sir opts for a 2.0 diesel Mondeo (or 1.6 diesel Focus :eek:) for traffic over a 530d or 3.0 TDI A6 Quattro - is rather a small minor detail compared to lots of other issues in Ireland and indeed the Gardaí.

Does sum up the attitude in official Ireland towards doing things right - but that's another topic for another day, another forum

Given the size of the country etc and the old saying that 'Police radio waves travel quicker than any police car' , maybe the 'daysel' is a better overall choice when the amount of actual chases are taken into account.
In the UK / EU distances are greater so a getaway car doing 140mph would soon lose a 112mph 'daysel'

1.6 TDCi 93 bhp Focus Estate 5d 0-60 12.3 secs 112 mph 67 mpg

2.0 TDCi (163bhp) Focus Estate5d 0-60 8.5 secs 135 mph 56 mpg

2.0T ST Estate 5d 0-60 6.3 secs 154 mph 39 mpg

Prius - 1.8 134 bhp 0-60 10.1 secs 112 mph 72mpg :eek:


So.... 8,000 miles/mth x 67mpg = 120gals x39mpg = 205gal

The beancounters are only interested in the 85gal/mth/veh-i-cle saving, their remit doesn't cover crime figures

Add into the mix also the driving standards of some members who shouldn't even be given the keys to an old Transit :rolleyes:

Section_4

Capri wrote: »

Given the size of the country etc and the old saying that 'Police radio waves travel quicker than any police car' , maybe the 'daysel' is a better overall choice when the amount of actual chases are taken into account.
In the UK / EU distances are greater so a getaway car doing 140mph would soon lose a 112mph 'daysel'

1.6 TDCi 93 bhp Focus Estate 5d 0-60 12.3 secs 112 mph 67 mpg

2.0 TDCi (163bhp) Focus Estate5d 0-60 8.5 secs 135 mph 56 mpg

2.0T ST Estate 5d 0-60 6.3 secs 154 mph 39 mpg

Prius - 1.8 134 bhp 0-60 10.1 secs 112 mph 72mpg :eek:


So.... 8,000 miles/mth x 67mpg = 120gals x39mpg = 205gal

The beancounters are only interested in the 85gal/mth/veh-i-cle saving, their remit doesn't cover crime figures

Add into the mix also the driving standards of some members who shouldn't even be given the keys to an old Transit :rolleyes:

A high top speed isn't usually required in most urban and suburban stations (though it is useful). However the ability to accelerate at pace in stop/start and conjested road ways is required to enable safe and quick response times. Sadly the new 1.6 Focus is a let down on both fronts, it is ideal for high visibility patrolling, transport within a district and the like.

The sub par driving standards is a legacy problem, indicative of an under resourced police force which was never provided with an adequate training and development budget.

Capri

This year's Police Vehicle Evaluation conducted by the Michigan State Police at Grattan Raceway

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131003/CARNEWS/131009923


And the 'good ol days' :rolleyes:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130612/CARNEWS01/130619936

goldie fish

That's a pretty pointless test. Unless you intend carrying out all your chases around roundabouts.

Capri

goldie fish wrote: »

That's a pretty pointless test. Unless you intend carrying out all your chases around roundabouts.

Wouldn't agree, I'd say very few Irish chases are on the M50 / M1 , the majority are on twisty backroads in the dead of night ??

goldie fish

Capri wrote: »

Wouldn't agree, I'd say very few Irish chases are on the M50 / M1 , the majority are on twisty backroads in the dead of night ??

You say you wouldn't agree, but it sounds like you are agreeing.

Capri

Unless you intend carrying out all your chases around roundabouts

goldie fish wrote: »

You say you wouldn't agree, but it sounds like you are agreeing.

The Michigan State police tests seem to be one of the standards that US forces use. That test track certainly looks like a lot of Irish country roads

http://www.policemag.com/channel/vehicles/articles/2011/11/making-a-tough-decision.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_CTA4jp6E