Vehicle Gallery - Discussion Thread

Rawhead

According to last Sundays "Sunday Times", at least one Focus ST and a few other high powered cars gifted from Revenue seizures being used by undercover unit in Dublin to counter "travelling" gangs.

carzony

Rawhead wrote: »

According to last Sundays "Sunday Times", at least one Focus ST and a few other high powered cars gifted from Revenue seizures being used by undercover unit in Dublin to counter "travelling" gangs.

It seems they only give high powered vehicles to units dealing with serious crime.

CharlieCroker

carzony wrote: »

It seems they only give high powered vehicles to units dealing with serious crime.

Who are rarely first at scene! Just as well there's never any serious crime outside Dublin!

Oh wait, where is it these travelling gangs travel to???

Rawhead

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Who are rarely first at scene! Just as well there's never any serious crime outside Dublin!

Oh wait, where is it these travelling gangs travel to???

The article states that the units task is to intercept the gangs on the way back to Dublin. Given that the vast majority of these "travelling" gangs are Dublin based it seems to make a bit more sense to try and catch them upon their return as opposed to trying to guess where they will strike next.
I suppose in an ideal world every district would have a car or cars capable of chasing M5s, Impreza's and such, although that same world would have proper health services, schools etc.

Theanswers

Rawhead wrote: »

The article states that the units task is to intercept the gangs on the way back to Dublin. Given that the vast majority of these "travelling" gangs are Dublin based it seems to make a bit more sense to try and catch them upon their return as opposed to trying to guess where they will strike next.
I suppose in an ideal world every district would have a car or cars capable of chasing M5s, Impreza's and such, although that same world would have proper health services, schools etc.

I don't think we need cars capable of chasing M5s etc due to the fact rarely anyone could use the top speed. I think something which can keep up a standard saloon would be a start.

530ds for example, Audi 3.0 TDI. Fine Patrol Cars.

CharlieCroker

Rawhead wrote: »

The article states that the units task is to intercept the gangs on the way back to Dublin. Given that the vast majority of these "travelling" gangs are Dublin based it seems to make a bit more sense to try and catch them upon their return as opposed to trying to guess where they will strike next.
I suppose in an ideal world every district would have a car or cars capable of chasing M5s, Impreza's and such, although that same world would have proper health services, schools etc.

Have you a link? Wouldn't mind a read.

I'm not saying those units shouldn't have capable cars but that shouldn't preclude regular units having similar capabilities. The regular or local detective units are the first at scene to 99% of incidents.

These gangs will do up to 9-10 jobs a night. Surely its better to catch them after the first one rather than let them drive back to Dublin.

Theanswers

It's about commitment. The state isn't prepared to put the resources and tools in place to achieve the job. Therefore they don't really care.

It's like giving someone Vw Golf to tow a horse box. It might do the job, but when the going get though nothing will beat the proper 4x4.

Likewise give the Gardi Hyundai's and ask him to intercept said criminals. One might manage it, however more the likely same vehicle will be unsuitable and thus giving the criminal the opportunity to avoid capture.

Rawhead

Theanswers wrote: »

I don't think we need cars capable of chasing M5s etc due to the fact rarely anyone could use the top speed. I think something which can keep up a standard saloon would be a start.

530ds for example, Audi 3.0 TDI. Fine Patrol Cars.

Have you an economic proposal to pay for €50k patrol cars? Would you take the money from payroll savings? from buildings and maintenance? Training?
Or maybe the money can come from health or education.
While it would be lovely to have a 530d sitting outside every station waiting to chase cars, the reality is that there would probably be no one to drive it given they won't have the funds to hire or train anyone after buying them. Despite the best efforts of the Sunday World, it's actually not that dangerous out there.

The unit tasked to deal with these gangs seems to be the best way with the cards they've been dealt.

Theanswers

The vast majority of that 50,000 grand price is VRT and other related taxes, which is government therefore revenue neutral.

Deals can be had with manufacture to reduce the price even further if buying large quantities.

We need to look at what type of police force we want? One that is there? Or one which is properly resourced to deal the issues at hand.

Regarding the Sunday World - Where do they get their stories from? Thin Air? Rural Ireland is experiencing a crime wave.

I remember hearing; Don't know it it's fact or fiction that a gang from NI avoiding capture from Mayo Gardai countless times in despite being pursued because the patrol car could not keep up.

Likewise, Enter 'Traffic Blues' into YouTube and note how the NI car had no bother avoiding the Gardai and crossing the border from Donegal into Derry, now this could have happened even with the garda having access to a high powered car. However, it still shows the fact they are ill-euiped .

Rawhead

Theanswers wrote: »

The vast majority of that 50,000 grand price is VRT and other related taxes, which is government therefore revenue neutral.

Deals can be had with manufacture to reduce the price even further if buying large quantities.

We need to look at what type of police force we want? One that is there? Or one which is properly resourced to deal the issues at hand.

Regarding the Sunday World - Where do they get their stories from? Thin Air? Rural Ireland is experiencing a crime wave.

I remember hearing; Don't know it it's fact or fiction that a gang from NI avoiding capture from Mayo Gardai countless times in despite being pursued because the patrol car could not keep up.

Likewise, Enter 'Traffic Blues' into YouTube and note how the NI car had no bother avoiding the Gardai and crossing the border from Donegal into Derry, now this could have happened even with the garda having access to a high powered car. However, it still shows the fact they are ill-euiped .

What about the costs associated with the extra training needed, servicing costs etc. you can have the greatest car in the world but without a properly trained driver it's useless. It would require a fair bit of training to allow anyone to properly utilise a 300bhp+ car, this would mean that you would probably only have a small pool of qualified drivers, thus increasing the chance that when you need it no drivers will be available due to leave/rest day/ driver training etc etc..

Enter "car escaping police" into YouTube and you'll get examples from every country in the world, even the best equipped ones. A reckless person trying to escape capture will take risks a Garda can't/won't take, no matter what car they are in.

Sure no point in letting practical things get in the way of an idea though.

Theanswers

Rawhead wrote: »

What about the costs associated with the extra training needed, servicing costs etc. you can have the greatest car in the world but without a properly trained driver it's useless. It would require a fair bit of training to allow anyone to properly utilise a 300bhp+ car, this would mean that you would probably only have a small pool of qualified drivers, thus increasing the chance that when you need it no drivers will be available due to leave/rest day/ driver training etc etc..

Enter "car escaping police" into YouTube and you'll get examples from every country in the world, even the best equipped ones. A reckless person trying to escape capture will take risks a Garda can't/won't take, no matter what car they are in.

Sure no point in letting practical things get in the way of an idea though.

These are things we have to look at. If it can work in other countries why not here? Any joe soap can go into said dealerships and purchase these cars, the driving of them requires common sense.

Servicing costs are much the same as any other car. Engine oil, Air filter; etc.

As I said; we need to start looking at these things seriously. Why do other police forces feel the need to use such cars. Either they are wasting all there resources buy unnecessary cars or we are fooling ourselves by purchasing inadequate cars.

Rawhead

Theanswers wrote: »

These are things we have to look at. If it can work in other countries why not here? Any joe soap can go into said dealerships and purchase these cars, the driving of them requires common sense.

Servicing costs are much the same as any other car. Engine oil, Air filter; etc.

As I said; we need to start looking at these things seriously. Why do other police forces feel the need to use such cars. Either they are wasting all there resources buy unnecessary cars or we are fooling ourselves by purchasing inadequate cars.

The reason that other forces have them is because they can afford them. We are a small country, with limited resources, so I'll ask you again, where will you take the money from to pay for the 5 series patrol cars? Take medical cards away from more sick kids? Bigger class sizes? Close more A&E departments?
I agree that it would be nice to have these cars available, but in a time when the government are taking medical cards off terminally ill children, I think seeing a 530d outside the local station might be a hard sell to your average citizen.
Your username is decidedly disingenuous.

Old diesel

Rawhead wrote: »

What about the costs associated with the extra training needed, servicing costs etc. you can have the greatest car in the world but without a properly trained driver it's useless. It would require a fair bit of training to allow anyone to properly utilise a 300bhp+ car, this would mean that you would probably only have a small pool of qualified drivers, thus increasing the chance that when you need it no drivers will be available due to leave/rest day/ driver training etc etc..

Enter "car escaping police" into YouTube and you'll get examples from every country in the world, even the best equipped ones. A reckless person trying to escape capture will take risks a Garda can't/won't take, no matter what car they are in.

Sure no point in letting practical things get in the way of an idea though.

Well that's where Ireland needs a cultural change - of delivering the resources needed to do things properly.

IF people need to be trained to do things - in this case - drive higher powered cars - then you should train them.

The operative word here is "NEED" - are criminals and the like getting away because patrol cars are not powerful enough to keep up???.

Obviously - there is a safety issue to be addressed (hence PROPER TRAINING NEEDED) with driving high powered cars in pursuits

The question is however - WHAT is the operational need for higher performance cars.

What level of performance would be adequate for the normal regular fleet to ensure satisfactory performance.

It may be for example that THERE IS a need for a higher performance car - like the 530d or 3.0 tdi Audi - or the Focus STs/Golf GTi.

But how many of them do we need - we may not need one in every station but perhaps we could look at having some of these cars stationed around the country IF there is an operational NEED for these cars.

IF there is an operational NEED for that type of car - then to my mind there is a NEED for the training also.

I suppose the thing to be looked at - is - IF gardai - Traffic corps, detectives, special branch, special units, RSU are TRAINED in the use of high performance cars - what benefits would be achieved in terms of operational benefits from higher performance cars

Terrontress

Why must all training be carried out by AGS? England has dozens of Police forces and they don't all have individual training?

Why not send Gardai on the same training courses which English police go on? Train them in vehicle dynamics, high speed driving over there. Then have a localisation session in Ireland for any additional info required.

NI is smaller than the South yet they manage to get trained in their great vehicles. The Giro d'Italia was full of PSNI cars that anyone would dream of owning. Who would ever dream of owning a small Hyundai or a battered Mondeo?

Old diesel

Terrontress wrote: »

Why must all training be carried out by AGS? England has dozens of Police forces and they don't all have individual training?

Why not send Gardai on the same training courses which English police go on? Train them in vehicle dynamics, high speed driving over there. Then have a localisation session in Ireland for any additional info required.

NI is smaller than the South yet they manage to get trained in their great vehicles. The Giro d'Italia was full of PSNI cars that anyone would dream of owning. Who would ever dream of owning a small Hyundai or a battered Mondeo?

I didn't say AGS had to do the training themselves - just that we need a culture of - if someone needs training they get training.

Whats relevant in terms of things like training - is what is the operational need for higher powered cars (which is what would be creating the training need). If we don't need a huge amount of higher powered cars in the fleet - then that means your training requirement - and hence the cost would be lower

Rawhead

Terrontress wrote: »

Why must all training be carried out by AGS? England has dozens of Police forces and they don't all have individual training?

Why not send Gardai on the same training courses which English police go on? Train them in vehicle dynamics, high speed driving over there. Then have a localisation session in Ireland for any additional info required.

NI is smaller than the South yet they manage to get trained in their great vehicles. The Giro d'Italia was full of PSNI cars that anyone would dream of owning. Who would ever dream of owning a small Hyundai or a battered Mondeo?

NI is part of the UK, who are one of the G8 wealthiest nations on earth and you want to compare ourselves to them. It's as bad as the nuts over on the military forum demanding we have a squadron of F22's up in Baldonnel, or a fleet of destroyers in the Navy.
We are a tiny island nation of 4 million people with a a GDP comparable to Algeria and yet everyone wants the best of everything. I will say again that the Gardai could do with better cars, but people need to understand that we can't afford everything for everyone (unless you listen to the shinners economic manifesto)

Old diesel

Rawhead wrote: »

NI is part of the UK, who are one of the G8 wealthiest nations on earth and you want to compare ourselves to them. It's as bad as the nuts over on the military forum demanding we have a squadron of F22's up in Baldonnel, or a fleet of destroyers in the Navy.
We are a tiny island nation of 4 million people with a a GDP comparable to Algeria and yet everyone wants the best of everything. I will say again that the Gardai could do with better cars, but people need to understand that we can't afford everything for everyone (unless you listen to the shinners economic manifesto)

The point is - surely we can do better then things like 1.6 diesel estates on traffic??????.

How much is the cost difference between (for example) a 1.6 tdci Focus Estate which would be underpowered.

And a 163 ps 2.0 Tdci Focus estate which would be less underpowered.

Also what would a 184 ps Octavia VRs diesel cost compared to a normal 1.6 tdi Octavia.

For specific tasks one might justify something like a Focus ST estate - but realistically you wouldn't run 400/500 of them in all fairness

Slight difference in comparing F22s and Destroyers - to planning a fleet of Garda cars I would say.

The better cars are somewhat more attainable then the fancy F22s and destroyers.

More to the point - a better operational case can be made for having much better cars on SOME tasks*

Imo

*Don't think anyone is saying every patrol car needs to be a 3.0 tdi or a 530d

Capri

PSNI 'better equipped' ??

Some PSNI stuff -

Armoured Octavia https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/5997631361/

Armoured Defender/Penman https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/9324949928/in/photostream/

Honda (250 ?) https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/6234819805/


For the Driving school ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/12681853715/in/photostream/


Seems they don't really have that much faster stuff than here, maybe they're just better drivers :rolleyes:


Grand having all this pie-in-the-sky talk of BMW's being the 'answer' , but how about thinking outside the box. Gangs will know 90% of the time where the BMW's would be based and their times of operation, but IF AGS bought a load of Caddys https://www.flickr.com/photos/nick19/5534263359/in/pool-psni and got SOME of them tuned up https://www.flickr.com/photos/steven-roe/6249198837/ the gangs wouldn't have a clue if it was a hi-po or ordinary Caddy patrolling, AND there'd be plenty of room for prisoners once they been caught.

Trouble is in this country is we always want the 'bling' factor along with H&S rules which means €€€€€€'s wasted on reports etc (like the Segway failure - albeit not costing AGS money as it was a trial ) and no success's in curbing crims :o

Old diesel

Capri wrote: »

PSNI 'better equipped' ??

Some PSNI stuff -

Armoured Octavia https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/5997631361/

Armoured Defender/Penman https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/9324949928/in/photostream/

Honda (250 ?) https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/6234819805/


For the Driving school ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/what_the_flickr/12681853715/in/photostream/


Seems they don't really have that much faster stuff than here, maybe they're just better drivers :rolleyes:


Grand having all this pie-in-the-sky talk of BMW's being the 'answer' , but how about thinking outside the box. Gangs will know 90% of the time where the BMW's would be based and their times of operation, but IF AGS bought a load of Caddys https://www.flickr.com/photos/nick19/5534263359/in/pool-psni and got SOME of them tuned up https://www.flickr.com/photos/steven-roe/6249198837/ the gangs wouldn't have a clue if it was a hi-po or ordinary Caddy patrolling, AND there'd be plenty of room for prisoners once they been caught.

Trouble is in this country is we always want the 'bling' factor along with H&S rules which means €€€€€€'s wasted on reports etc (like the Segway failure - albeit not costing AGS money as it was a trial ) and no success's in curbing crims :o

Interesting idea on the Caddys - unfortunately - when you take into account BMWs ability to kit out the cars as police cars in the BMW factory (AFAIK) and the need to do the modifications to the Caddy properly and correctly (chassis and brake upgrades) - souping up the Caddy could cost as much as simply buying the 530d in the first place.

In any case an Octavia VRs should be a VERY capable car for traffic and other such roles.

Regarding knowing the cars - I reckon that with something like an Audi - a 3.0 tdi UNMARKED AND DONE PROPERLY* won't be recognisable for a Garda car.

Don't need a big fleet of them - regarding your out of the box thinking - who says the highly based Garda based in Limerick - could not accidentally pop up occasionally in (for example) Tralee - thus spreading out the operational effectiveness of the cars

It does raise the question - are 1.6/1.7 Hyundai diesels good enough (I think not) and if not - what cars SHOULD be used from an operational effectiveness viewpoint

*no flashers on bumpers like the 07 unmarked fords for example)

Capri

Old diesel wrote: »

Interesting idea on the Caddys - unfortunately - when you take into account BMWs ability to kit out the cars as police cars in the BMW factory (AFAIK) and the need to do the modifications to the Caddy properly and correctly (chassis and brake upgrades) - souping up the Caddy could cost as much as simply buying the 530d in the first place.

In any case an Octavia VRs should be a VERY capable car for traffic and other such roles.

Regarding knowing the cars - I reckon that with something like an Audi - a 3.0 tdi UNMARKED AND DONE PROPERLY* won't be recognisable for a Garda car.

Don't need a big fleet of them - regarding your out of the box thinking - who says the highly based Garda based in Limerick - could not accidentally pop up occasionally in (for example) Tralee - thus spreading out the operational effectiveness of the cars

It does raise the question - are 1.6/1.7 Hyundai diesels good enough (I think not) and if not - what cars SHOULD be used from an operational effectiveness viewpoint

*no flashers on bumpers like the 07 unmarked fords for example)

Remember back in the days when we had Victor 3300's, Granada L 2.8's , R18 Turbo's :rolleyes::rolleyes:
The Victors and Granadas were 'Police spec' (bigger engines/brakes in basic model )and you threw a gumball on the roof when needed, no 'hidden in plain sight':o:o strobes, the old (PYE?)aerial was the giveaway in those days. WHO and WHERE was it decided to kit up everything with 'circus lighting' , the French can make do with a gumball light and full headlights on - is there ANY evidence that all these strobes mounted low down are more effective than a roof mounted gumball and two-tones???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXdDiC8Fqyk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9B5urvQw_w






so WHY do we need extra lights (at €50+ each x how many per car x number of cars kitted )

VW in Germany, Vauxhall in UK will kit up anything to the spec. asked for

http://www.volkswagen.de/de/geschaeftskunden/behoerden/Landespolizeien.html

http://www.volkswagen.de/de/geschaeftskunden/behoerden/Landespolizeien/Polizeifahrzeuge.html

New Polo - http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/23581898

Translation of German costs approach -

Holistic cost management.

A low purchase price may sound tempting. In the long run a supposedly favorable investment but may turn out to be more expensive cost drivers. Profitability can be found in many household goods just do not measure the purchase price. The decisive factors are the operating costs for the user.


Whole life cycle approach

This raises the question of which product is best for the entire life cycle. For this to be estimated before the purchase of a vehicle, all of its costs need to be compiled as part of a total-cost-of-ownership analysis. When establishing the total cost addition to the purchase price their maintenance costs and the cost of insurance and fuel over the years are taken into account. An extensive task, assist in the Volkswagen partner for forces.

http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/fleet/special-vehicles/special-vehicles-home.html

http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/fleet/special-vehicles/emergency-vehicles.html

At Vauxhall Special Vehicles, we believe we understand the unique requirements of the UK Emergency Services. Vauxhall Special Vehicles can deliver a wide choice of car and van models, specifically designed and rigorously tested to meet the stringent demands of the UK Emergency Services. Our flexible production facility (based at Millbrook, GM's proving ground test facility in Bedfordshire) is able to offer a one-stop shop purchasing experience. We supply turnkey vehicle solutions that enable rapid turnaround of replacement vehicles, plus we can now offer a unique in-house de-commissioning and re-marketing service.




Combined with our industry leading 100,000 mile Lifetime Warranty1 for cars, it's no coincidence we are now the biggest supplier of low and intermediate vehicles to the UK Police Authorities.

Remarketing -An industry first –

Remarketing of emergency services vehicles. Vauxhall Special Vehicles recognise that Fleet Managers are under pressure to increase efficiency and to reduce the costs of providing sufficient and suitable vehicles to officers and staff within their organisations. An area which can require extra resource with both labour and space is the process of decommissioning vehicles at the end of their service period and remarketing them through auction.



We are launching a service to our customers to assist Fleet Managers in this task. Aimed at reducing resource needs for Fleet Managers, and incorporating the reuse of high value equipment, our service can be tailored to suit your requirements.



Example process flow:

1.Fleet Manager contacts VSV advising vehicle ID to remarket
2.VSV arranges collection and transports to decommissioning centre
3.MOT and service carried out (if required)
4.Unwanted parts removed and agreed items held for reuse or returned
5.Repairs carried out, vehicle prepared for auction
6.Vehicle auctioned
7.Financial administration concluded


As well as tailoring the extent of preparing the vehicle for resale to your needs (e.g. MOT and/or service), we also offer flexibility in the scope of administration and financial transactions. This can range from the Fleet Manager retaining all existing administration duties and resale proceeds direct from auction, to minimising those tasks with the resale proceeds being used to discount the cost of new vehicles.

The Insignia estate is available in Police spec with anything from 130bhp to 260bhp 4x4, what's wrong with a fleet of them all looking identical ( and I mean IDENTICAL, no 19" alloys on the 4x4 2.8 that the crims would spot in a flash - keep 'em guessing until the pursuit starts :eek: )

'Back to the future' with Vauxhall/Opel, or even Skodas

Old diesel

Capri wrote: »

Remember back in the days when we had Victor 3300's, Granada L 2.8's , R18 Turbo's :rolleyes::rolleyes:
The Victors and Granadas were 'Police spec' (bigger engines/brakes in basic model )and you threw a gumball on the roof when needed, no 'hidden in plain sight':o:o strobes, the old (PYE?)aerial was the giveaway in those days. WHO and WHERE was it decided to kit up everything with 'circus lighting' , the French can make do with a gumball light and full headlights on - is there ANY evidence that all these strobes mounted low down are more effective than a roof mounted gumball and two-tones???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXdDiC8Fqyk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9B5urvQw_w






so WHY do we need extra lights (at €50+ each x how many per car x number of cars kitted )

VW in Germany, Vauxhall in UK will kit up anything to the spec. asked for

http://www.volkswagen.de/de/geschaeftskunden/behoerden/Landespolizeien.html

http://www.volkswagen.de/de/geschaeftskunden/behoerden/Landespolizeien/Polizeifahrzeuge.html

New Polo - http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/23581898

Translation of German costs approach -



http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/fleet/special-vehicles/special-vehicles-home.html

http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/fleet/special-vehicles/emergency-vehicles.html






The Insignia estate is available in Police spec with anything from 130bhp to 260bhp 4x4, what's wrong with a fleet of them all looking identical ( and I mean IDENTICAL, no 19" alloys on the 4x4 2.8 that the crims would spot in a flash - keep 'em guessing until the pursuit starts :eek: )

'Back to the future' with Vauxhall/Opel, or even Skodas

Now you see - that Insignia idea is fine - you've got a range of options within the model range to meet many requirements - you can have 2.0 diesels (isn't there a twin turbo version of the Insignia diesel as well???) for normal police work.

But also higher performance versions for specialist tasks where the extra performance and extra roadholding capabilities would be important.

The problem here in Ireland - is that we insist on putting in a big order with a manufacturer that is only able to supply 1.6 or 1.7 diesels - or can't supply a decent all round car capable of police work - like Hyundai or Toyota.

I think I mentioned something like this previously with VAG - you can have everything from Golf 1.6 tdis, Caddy vans, Passats, Golf Gtis, Audis of various types - including Quattros with 3.0 tdis if required.

Frankly I really am not that fussed about Audis or BMWs been on the fleet per se - I mention them - because they offer cars POTENTIALLY very capable of fulfilling various operational roles.

And BMW in particular does hava a track record of SUCCESSFULLY supplying Uk forces with cars.

kub

With regard to all of the lights on Garda cars, I have no doubt that Health & Safety have their spoke in that requirement.

But let's also consider the standard of the average drivers in this country.

Capri

kub wrote: »

With regard to all of the lights on Garda cars, I have no doubt that Health & Safety have their spoke in that requirement.

But let's also consider the standard of the average drivers in this country.

That's for sure,some of them apply the brakes every time they see a blue light, others just crash straight into it :mad:

Still, the French wouldn't be much better so is there a higher rate of police cars being hit in France, OR do the French just prosecute those drivers for being BLIND and STUPID :mad:

And don't talk to me about H&S, next thing is you won't be allowed chase crims without a 'risk assesment' being done first:mad::mad:

In regards to cost of patrol cars etc. As all of them are tax/VRT free, if they were auctioned off after say 2 years then they would cost virtually €0 as there's always plenty of buyers at the Garda auctions.
(Similar situation regarding taxis in Denmark - they get new Mercs tax-free and sell them after 3-4 years for basically what they paid for them )

Terrontress

Capri wrote: »

That's for sure,some of them apply the brakes every time they see a blue light, others just crash straight into it :mad:

Still, the French wouldn't be much better so is there a higher rate of police cars being hit in France, OR do the French just prosecute those drivers for being BLIND and STUPID :mad:

And don't talk to me about H&S, next thing is you won't be allowed chase crims without a 'risk assesment' being done first:mad::mad:

In regards to cost of patrol cars etc. As all of them are tax/VRT free, if they were auctioned off after say 2 years then they would cost virtually €0 as there's always plenty of buyers at the Garda auctions.
(Similar situation regarding taxis in Denmark - they get new Mercs tax-free and sell them after 3-4 years for basically what they paid for them )

Surely France has a better standard of driving than Ireland.

No licenses handed out free when there were backlogs, no 2nd provisional drivers, a long history of motorway use.

Hooch

Capri wrote: »

And don't talk to me about H&S, next thing is you won't be allowed chase crims without a 'risk assesment' being done first:mad::mad:

In regards to cost of patrol cars etc. As all of them are tax/VRT free, if they were auctioned off after say 2 years then they would cost virtually €0 as there's always plenty of buyers at the Garda auctions.
(Similar situation regarding taxis in Denmark - they get new Mercs tax-free and sell them after 3-4 years for basically what they paid for them )

We do have to do a risk assessment continually during a pursuit......

Last time I checked the department had to pay VRT or VAT (or maybe both) but definitely at least one of them.

Old diesel

Hooch wrote: »

We do have to do a risk assessment continually during a pursuit......

Last time I checked the department had to pay VRT or VAT (or maybe both) but definitely at least one of them.

It would be mad if the dept of Justice had to pay VRT - its like robbing Peter to pay Paul

CharlieCroker

Yup. VAT and VRT on cars, bikes and jeeps.

Vat can be claimed back for vans as per usual.

Capri

Old diesel wrote: »

It would be mad if the dept of Justice had to pay VRT - its like robbing Peter to pay Paul

Just keeps the merry-go-round going and lots of public servants moving bits of paper around until payday - and Howlin's not howling about it either :mad:

timmywex

Anyone with a good caption for this one? :P http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90644271&postcount=1677

.243

timmywex wrote: »

Anyone with a good caption for this one? :P http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90644271&postcount=1677

"normally there's suppose to be a round thingy where my hands are"

source

timmywex wrote: »

Anyone with a good caption for this one? :P http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90644271&postcount=1677

"Driver": Vroom vroom, bbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, BEEP BEEP, NEE NAW...NEE NAW...NEE NAW.

Passenger: every bloody time...

Capri

Indo a bit late on the uptake :rolleyes: ,
Yesterday http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/hse-spent-61000-on-harleys-30353793.html

originally posted here in 2011 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056232933

I don't know how Harley won the HSE tender when retail their bike (Electra Glide police/fire/EMT model) is €23k v's €11k for a 700 Deauville :rolleyes:

Capri

Dacia (Renault/Nissan parents) seem to be getting serious about getting the Duster (Terrano) out there to all the emergency services. Hope the build quality is better than the old Aro's the army used back in the 80's :rolleyes:

http://www.autobild.de/bilder/dacia-duster-army-vorstellung-5084053.html#bild1


There again, VW might get the tender

http://www.autobild.de/bilder/vw-amarok-m-militaer--3488962.html#bild1


Just thinking about procurement procedures Army v's Garda v's HSE :rolleyes:
Army - thoroughly tested in field ops
Gardai - a quick run up and down the N3 from the Park
HSE - see how much chrome is on the vehicle and order from the brochure

kooga

drove down from belfast last night and just before hillsborough i was passed out by a dark grey vw transporter unmarked vehicle with the lights on. Real stealth machine.

Then at the Roundabout the police were doing a serach and they had a A6 Audi Avant in full livery. Contrast this when i pulled into services at Lusk to see the gardai getting out of an unmarked hyundai something estate!

Markcheese

kooga wrote: »

drove down from belfast last night and just before hillsborough i was passed out by a dark grey vw transporter unmarked vehicle with the lights on. Real stealth machine.

Then at the Roundabout the police were doing a serach and they had a A6 Audi Avant in full livery. Contrast this when i pulled into services at Lusk to see the gardai getting out of an unmarked
hyundai something estate!

Did people have the same bias against Toyota when they first entered the Garda fleet ... ? A lot of uk police forces use Hyundai 1.4 and 1.6 diesels,admittedly they'd have high speed area or pursuit cars as well,

Old diesel

kooga wrote: »

drove down from belfast last night and just before hillsborough i was passed out by a dark grey vw transporter unmarked vehicle with the lights on. Real stealth machine.

Then at the Roundabout the police were doing a serach and they had a A6 Audi Avant in full livery. Contrast this when i pulled into services at Lusk to see the gardai getting out of an unmarked hyundai something estate!

The Hyundai estate is bought by someone who just wants something with 4 wheels on the road.

"we need 15 cars NOW - doesn't matter what - just get em in - the Fine Gael back benchers are getting upset at lack of garda cars - they just want something with 4 wheels*"

The Audi is (probably) bought by someone wanting something that will do its specific operational role very well.

"We need an Estate car with the following qualities - sufficient boot space to carry the equipment needed for an operational patrol or traffic car, it needs to have good performance to ensure it can fulfil its operational role very well - say traffic, armed response, general good performance when responding to 999 calls. And we need very good roadholding for responding to 999 calls - and for other operational requirements - like keeping up with the bad guys.

So you end up with an A6 estate

1) Option of Quattro for extra roadholding

2) various engine options - 3.0 tdi etc if needed

3) lots of space for equipment

4) Can be integrated into a bigger deal via VAG for vehicles like vans, normal patrol cars (Skodas, Golfs etc) - which is very useful when planning a fleet. So you might only need 10 Audis - but its easier to fit them in when they can go in a deal for 40 Caddy vans, 35 Golfs and Passats with a number of engine options (unmarked Golf GTi that no one outside the force knows about hush)

IMO

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Did people have the same bias against Toyota when they first entered the Garda fleet ... ? A lot of uk police forces use Hyundai 1.4 and 1.6 diesels,admittedly they'd have high speed area or pursuit cars as well,

They are not well regarded by the Brits either.

Old diesel

Markcheese wrote: »

Did people have the same bias against Toyota when they first entered the Garda fleet ... ? A lot of uk police forces use Hyundai 1.4 and 1.6 diesels,admittedly they'd have high speed area or pursuit cars as well,

That's the thing though Mark - the uk DO use Hyundais for roles they are deemed suitable for.

They also however - use other types of cars when the needs of a role require a higher standard of performance, roadholding and other features then the Hyundai will give.

So Uk traffic officers get 530ds, A6 Quattros and other such cars - because the operational benefits of using such cars (and training people to use them).

The problem in Ireland - is Hyundais end up trying to be used FOR EVERYTHING - with no thought given to what would actually be needed

Even if you were looking at stuff like Octavia VRs for certain roles - your not talking a prestige car - just a much more capable car (potentially) then a Hyundai.

Even if you studied the Ford brochure more closely - and looked at the stuff you can buy from the UK range - right hand drive.

For example Focus 2.0 tci 163 ps - and in the old Mondeo - you also had various options like 200 ps ecoboost petrol.

They (AGS) did get 2.2 Mondeo diesels which was good - but more thought needs to be put into the speccing of the fleet.

I mean yes cost is an issue - but the fleet ALREADY has Fords in it - so (in theory) you could go to Ford and spec something that BETTER meets requirements - if those requirements have being identified as not been met by the current fleet

Capri

Zambia 'With Holden pulling out of Australia the mainstay of most Australian Police Forces the Commodore may not be as widespread.'

They're just not manufacturing, maybe it'll be Opels and Chevrolets with Holden badging, but seeing as the Commodore/Caprice is THE cop car of choice in Australia/US there might be problems ahead :rolleyes:

The reality is that Ford /GM / VAG do special police spec stuff for worldwide use so it won't be difficult to fill the gap

3fullback

On trial for new RSU vehicles possibly ?

belacqua_

3fullback wrote: »

On trial for new RSU vehicles possibly ?

It's five years old.

kub

belacqua_ wrote: »

It's five years old.

Maybe they are checking out wear and tear.

It's from 2012.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/10/23/meanwhile-on-the-m50-2/

iopener

was in warrenpoint for the weekend PSNI had a uk registared audi A6 estate unmaked dark coloured brown Sline 3 litre tdi doing speed checks, also saw the next day the same two policemen in a unmarked silver skoda octavia VRS, also saw in the town a marked skoda superb estate and two marked octavia's. there's also a navy unmarked supereb estate going around with both front and rear VPRN camera's, there was a music festival so maybe the PSNI were doing a road safety high visibility show of force.

POGAN

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's from 2012.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/10/23/meanwhile-on-the-m50-2/

It was tested for a tender if memory service me correct

Terrontress

iopener wrote: »

was in warrenpoint for the weekend PSNI had a uk registared audi A6 estate unmaked dark coloured brown Sline 3 litre tdi doing speed checks, also saw the next day the same two policemen in a unmarked silver skoda octavia VRS, also saw in the town a marked skoda superb estate and two marked octavia's. there's also a navy unmarked supereb estate going around with both front and rear VPRN camera's, there was a music festival so maybe the PSNI were doing a road safety high visibility show of force.

There are often very impressive police cars on the dual carriageway in to Warrenpoint. I've seen Passat W8s, Golf R32s, Focus STs all along that stretch, usually with someone pulled over.

iopener

yeah i have seen that focus RS myself couldn't believe me eyes when it went passed me with the blues and two's on, i've heard they have a golf vr32,a fella i know didn't know it was a unmarked car and him being a boy racer tried to take it in on golf gti on the warrenpoint dualer, the two policemen were laughing at him when they pulled him over.

Capri

Looks like an old RUC Granada :cool: http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/ford-granada-2-8-ghia-petrol-gas/7275803

RandomAccess

Some interesting arrivals at the Garda Garage this evening.

3 (possibly more) Volvo V70 D5's in UK Markings, full Battenburg and Police markings which were taped over.
One was originally registered in Peterborough in first half 2013.

They are probably factory spec Police cars so should be a welcome addition to the fleet.
Seems like it spent quite a short period of service within the UK fleet, not sure why that would be the case.

RandomAccess

RandomAccess wrote: »

Some interesting arrivals at the Garda Garage this evening.

3 (possibly more) Volvo V70 D5's in UK Markings, full Battenburg and Police markings which were taped over.
One was originally registered in Peterborough in first half 2013.

They are probably factory spec Police cars so should be a welcome addition to the fleet.
Seems like it spent quite a short period of service within the UK fleet, not sure why that would be the case.

Was considering snapping a picture but I would think its not worth the potential hassle.