Maintenance and Inappropriate Comments by Judge

Fittle

Moonbeam wrote: »

both parents should pay half so in that case it should cost 600 euro a week to raise a child and having 2 kids I can tell you it doesn't,many families life on less and this is supposed to be to maintain one child.

Nobody is trying to say that it costs 600euro a week to raise a child - I'm not sure where you got that from.

But in all maintenance orders, the judge considers a PORTION of all costs when assessing maintenance - and that includes mortgage/rent payments (to keep a roof over the childs head), lighting, heating, telephone and so on. You are asked to complete a very detailed breakdown of your weekly outgoings (down to your car tax) and the judge considers all of these costs when assessing maintenance and if he/she considers that the parent who is not raising the child on a full-time basis can afford X amount (X being a portion of the full costs of raising the child), they will award that to the child (maintenance is awarded for the child, not the parent who is raising them).

Davidian_ie

Wow, thanks again for all those who took the time out to post these replies. I am very open to criticism and appreciate it. I know I have made a lot of mistakes here but I also know the system is very unfair to the good guys. I can see how some guys would just give up on the whole process out of sheer frustration. The system actually makes it very easy for a guy to walk away and wash his hands of any responsibility if he wants to.

I realise the grocery thing may have be a mistake but my reasons were not to be deceitful, they were well intentioned. I didn't go into the court room and try to weasel out of making a maintenance. My receipts would have shown a huge financial commitment in relation to my means but Judge had no interest in analysing anything I brought to his table. Regarding clothes, I provide the majority of them. I also bring him swimming, to play barns, trips to the seaside, parks etc. I'm lucky that I don't bother with booze or smoke and gladly spend the few spare euros on activities with my son. My 'needs' have never entered into it, my son is first and college second. My vice/treat is to buy a coffee every other day. As for my own clothing, haven't bought clothes in years myself. I'm still not buying the e300 per week to keep a child. Think you could argue about this all day long but as someone else pointed out, showing them love is what really counts.

I moved back to my home place to reduce my costs. It's closer to college and hopefully after exams in March I can get work in the area my son is living. My course is specifically targeted at helping me to get a job in a multi national located there.

Regarding over nights , I have begged to come some agreement on this because for a start it would save me e20 on travel cots but she is adamant that he can't stay. I have held off on the custody case because I feel I am a weak position not working. My priority is to get my exams, get employment and take a case for shared custody and I won't be representing myself. She claims that he is in a creche on Tuesday and Thursday but I know this is not true. She refuses to disclose the name of the creche. I know specifically this is not true and don't want to go into a breakdown of the specifics. Her mother sits at home all week, she never leaves the house.

On an aside, unfortunately you got a bad judge on a bad day and made it worse for yourself by standing up for yourself. Sometimes it pays to let things roll over you. Hard but true.

I have been advised that this is an essential course of action. 'Yes sir, three bags full Sir', from now on.

Sadly the whole thing now turns into emotional warfare and mind games. Hate having to go down this route now but that is the end of any working relationship with the mother of my child. She has made it clear that she wants to profit out of the situation and also sees it as an opportunity to push me further away from my son.

Anyway bed now, 05.30 rise for college. Thanks again for all the different views, angles, outlooks. All replies greatly appreciated.

daltonmd

Davidian_ie wrote: »

Wow, thanks again for all those who took the time out to post these replies. I am very open to criticism and appreciate it. I know I have made a lot of mistakes here but I also know the system is very unfair to the good guys. I can see how some guys would just give up on the whole process out of sheer frustration. The system actually makes it very easy for a guy to walk away and wash his hands of any responsibility if he wants to.

I realise the grocery thing may have be a mistake but my reasons were not to be deceitful, they were well intentioned. I didn't go into the court room and try to weasel out of making a maintenance. My receipts would have shown a huge financial commitment in relation to my means but Judge had no interest in analysing anything I brought to his table. Regarding clothes, I provide the majority of them. I also bring him swimming, to play barns, trips to the seaside, parks etc. I'm lucky that I don't bother with booze or smoke and gladly spend the few spare euros on activities with my son. My 'needs' have never entered into it, my son is first and college second. My vice/treat is to buy a coffee every other day. As for my own clothing, haven't bought clothes in years myself. I'm still not buying the e300 per week to keep a child. Think you could argue about this all day long but as someone else pointed out, showing them love is what really counts.

I moved back to my home place to reduce my costs. It's closer to college and hopefully after exams in March I can get work in the area my son is living. My course is specifically targeted at helping me to get a job in a multi national located there.

Regarding over nights , I have begged to come some agreement on this because for a start it would save me e20 on travel cots but she is adamant that he can't stay. I have held off on the custody case because I feel I am a weak position not working. My priority is to get my exams, get employment and take a case for shared custody and I won't be representing myself. She claims that he is in a creche on Tuesday and Thursday but I know this is not true. She refuses to disclose the name of the creche. I know specifically this is not true and don't want to go into a breakdown of the specifics. Her mother sits at home all week, she never leaves the house.



I have been advised that this is an essential course of action. 'Yes sir, three bags full Sir', from now on.

Sadly the whole thing now turns into emotional warfare and mind games. Hate having to go down this route now but that is the end of any working relationship with the mother of my child. She has made it clear that she wants to profit out of the situation and also sees it as an opportunity to push me further away from my son.

Anyway bed now, 05.30 rise for college. Thanks again for all the different views, angles, outlooks. All replies greatly appreciated.

You know David, there are several issues going on here besides the maintenance. With regards to access, my advice would be to contact this service http://www.familymediation.ie/custody-guardianship-access/custody-guardinaship-and-access/ for information. Taking these steps will show you in a favourable light with the judge.

In regards to the 300 per week costs to raise a child - maintenance is not a direct payment to the child. If your ex pays 1000pm in rent/mortgage, 300 for bills and even 200 for food then that amounts to 1500 per month or 400 per week. You are asked to pay 100 towards those costs, so I'm struggling a little when you still can't see that.
In regards to her childcare arrangements, if your ex had your son in a creche full time for 250 per week, you would not be asked or expected to pay half of that so the fact that her mother very kindly takes care of your child - for no payment - is a wonderful gesture from that woman. There is nothing better, in my opinion, than having a loving grandmother taking care of her grandson.

If her mother were to get ill or god forbid die, then what? Would you pay half the creche fees on top of your maintenance?

So this issue is best left alone when in a courtroom because this is what a judge will tell you.

You have 14 days to appeal so I would do that, in the meantime I would lodge some amount of money to the ex, this will show intent and again a judge will see this in a favourable light. But pay nothing and it won't look good.

Last piece of advice - steer clear of mentioning anything to do with buying shopping, creche issues, ex's pay, receipts for what you spend on your son and basically anything to do with your ex on any kind of a personal level.

I know that there are issues between you and your ex, but you need to remove yourself from these petty sqaubbles with her. Stop playing her games and use your energy to gain proper access and a more reasonable maintenance amount. You will get nowhere playing these games with her.

Don't forget to check with the social welfare for the child dependant, in some cases this is awarded to a parent who is not living with the child but substantially maintaining them, take the court order to your local office as proof, if you pay the 100 in the meantime that would be better. 70 per week is a lot more reasonable than 100pw I think you'll agree.



Good luck.

LegacyUser

Sadly the whole thing now turns into emotional warfare and mind games. Hate having to go down this route now but that is the end of any working relationship with the mother of my child. She has made it clear that she wants to profit out of the situation and also sees it as an opportunity to push me further away from my son.


As a daughter of separated parents please don't!!! I don't think either of my parents were in a right frame of mind during or after the separation, so try make allowances for this!

My father in particular got a chip on his shoulder after it all, does no body any favours!!

I know its so hard, but if you can get on with your ex during this the rest will be so much easier! Just let some things go (i really do know this is not easy).

I can see both sides of my parents separation, they don't see what they did 'wrong' as easy. Dad thought mum wanted to make a profit too, but she didn't, she was just scared of the future (imo) and needed to be able to protect herself and me.

Long story short, they don't talk now and it is terrible!!! Please please please don't make the same mistake but do make sure you stand up for yourself!

lucernarian

daltonmd wrote: »

While I agree that 100 per week is perhaps a little excessive

This is where I stopped taking that post seriously. As the poster after you mentioned, unless there is some kind of special care needed or some other circumstance not yet outlined, €100 p/w is a ludicrous and absurd level of maintenance to award against a parent whose income is not even twice that. "Perhaps a little excessive"?!

And if one parent is awarded custody, what is to say that they must live in a place that costs €1000 euro to rent/mortgage? What happens if a parent decides to go to a particular childcare facility that costs much more than a nearby one? Is one parent forced to pay extra to contribute towards an excessively expensive creche?

daltonmd

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

This is where I stopped taking that post seriously. As the poster after you mentioned, unless there is some kind of special care needed or some other circumstance not yet outlined, €100 p/w is a ludicrous and absurd level of maintenance to award against a parent whose income is not even twice that. "Perhaps a little excessive"?!

And if one parent is awarded custody, what is to say that they must live in a place that costs €1000 euro to rent/mortgage? What happens if a parent decides to go to a particular childcare facility that costs much more than a nearby one? Is one parent forced to pay extra to contribute towards an excessively expensive creche?

As I have tried to explain, again and again, it is not the needs or the income of the parent that is the most important, it is the needs of the child and if you don't get that then I don't know how else to explain it to you. But I will try - here's a tip, keep reading....


The income of the parents is really not the issue - it is the ongoing daily needs of the child/ren. A fact that a lot of people simply cannot "get". Just because the parents split up, this does not mean that the child should have a lower expectation of a decent standard of life then what they could have expected if the parents stayed together. That is what the Judge looks at.

You are making the mistake of many, you are looking at the OP (for example) and looking at his "needs" over that of the child/ren.


You ask here:
"And if one parent is awarded custody, what is to say that they must live in a place that costs €1000 euro to rent/mortgage?"


"What happens if a parent decides to go to a particular childcare facility that costs much more than a nearby one? Is one parent forced to pay extra to contribute towards an excessively expensive creche"

Let's say, for example that the rent/mortgage is 600 per month and the Creche is 100 per week (I know, cheap Creche eh??) that's 1000 Euro per month. Now, the 400 euro is not half of these costs, it is not intended to be.

Rent/mortgage and childcare costs are within the maintenance amount, along with utility bills, food, clothes, travel, after-school curricula and so on . The judge does not say "well the mother pays x amount in A,B and C, so she is awarded y amount" that is not how it goes.

It is assumed that because the mother (in this case) has custody that she is looking after the housing needs and the childcare needs of the child as well as paying all the relevant bills/costs associated with providing a home for the child, that she is "providing" for that child - she is contributing. The Op (in this case) is contributing 400 euro per month..

If you earn 5k 0r 50k - the Judge can not award more than 150 Euro child maintenance per week.

If you were to add up what the custodial parent is paying towards the upbringing of the child/ren then you would see that if they were to contribute 100 euro then this simply would not come close to the actual amount.

I hope I have made it a bit clearer...

Fittle

daltonmd wrote: »

If you earn 5k 0r 50k - the Judge can not award more than 150 Euro child maintenance per week.

This has been said before here, and is very misleading. A Judge in a District court can award a maximum of 150e per week per child. In a Circuit Court, there is NO maximum, so a judge can award whatever they like if a judgement is made in a Circuit Court.

Kildrought

Just to add to the mix, it's worth pointing out that the weekly rate paid to foster parents per child is €346. It would be safe to say that this is the HSE's best estimate of average costs.

Fittle

Kildrought wrote: »

Just to add to the mix, it's worth pointing out that the weekly rate paid to foster parents per child is €346. It would be safe to say that this is the HSE's best estimate of average costs.

Funny you say that Kildrought - I've seen the ads lately for fostering and it's something I've often thought about, so looked a bit further into it and also thought of the comparison between what the HSE deems a suitable amount to raise a child, and what the courts/State deem is a suitable amount. It's an interesting debate alright.

daltonmd

Fittle wrote: »

This has been said before here, and is very misleading. A Judge in a District court can award a maximum of 150e per week per child. In a Circuit Court, there is NO maximum, so a judge can award whatever they like if a judgement is made in a Circuit Court.

And as I have pointed out before - when and if a case goes to the circuit court it is NOT to do with the single issue of Child maintenance. Please see below.



"6. Circuit Court

Proceedings are held in the Circuit Court where all issues of joint assets (everything the parties own), matters concerning children, and matters concerning the finality of relationships are decided upon.

Proceedings which involve joint assets of a combined value exceeding a certain, higher threshold are heard in the High Court. The services of a solicitor and barrister are required for representation in the Circuit Court.

A request should be made for a transcript of court proceedings. This is advisable to enable the parties to understand and rely on what was said and done during the hearing. If an appeal is lodged in the High Court, the transcript constitutes a case history which saves time and expense."

Orion

Enough about what/who/where and how much the courts can decree. The question is about the comments the judge made and how the OP should proceed. Let's get back on topic please.

Davidian_ie

Just an update on the situation. Firstly, got the appeal lodged but Court Clerk kept telling me that my Maintenance Order started the week of the case. I asked him for a copy of it and he said he had not processed the paperwork. Still have received nothing in the post.

Spoke with the mother of my child over Xmas and she agreed that the award made by the Judge was not feasible under my current situation and we are now close to agreeing a deal amongst ourselves (Just 10 euro apart). She also said she was shocked at the behaviour of the Judge and me on the day of the court. She said the whole thing descended into a farce as the two of us went at it hammer and tongs arguing.

Anyway, I pleaded with her to look at it logically and that if we kept going into Court, her Legal team would end up walking away with whatever award would be finally agreed for the next few years, i.e the equivalent of approx 2 years maintenance would be needed for her to break even with her Legal costs ( taking into account here the appeal, another case when i return to work, possibly another appeal and a Custody case, etc.). So far she seems agreeable to sort something logical out this week, so fingers crossed. I begged her originally to go through Mediation and asked her to pick one that she liked but that request fell on deaf ears. Now after all this trauma we end up sorting it out ourself and she is left with a 600 euro bill from her solicitor. So, I guess no matter how much people hate one another they should try and get someone to mediate or come to a compromise themselves. I know this can be very difficult to do in certain cases.

I know through doing Employment Law lectures this year that a new Act comes into play this year, where Judges will be telling parties to get involved in Mediation first before they come before a Judge. Not sure if this will be applicable in Family Law cases but it would have to be a welcome development. Anything that puts a dent in this entitlement culture that exists in the legal profession has to be a good thing in my eyes. They have little or no morals preying on the vulnerable souls that are caught up in a very complex system. In my experience so far, all I can see is a system that is one big gravy train to enrich the legal classes, with little regard for the victims.

Davidian_ie

bubs!! wrote: »

Sadly the whole thing now turns into emotional warfare and mind games. Hate having to go down this route now but that is the end of any working relationship with the mother of my child. She has made it clear that she wants to profit out of the situation and also sees it as an opportunity to push me further away from my son.


As a daughter of separated parents please don't!!! I don't think either of my parents were in a right frame of mind during or after the separation, so try make allowances for this!

My father in particular got a chip on his shoulder after it all, does no body any favours!!

I know its so hard, but if you can get on with your ex during this the rest will be so much easier! Just let some things go (i really do know this is not easy).

I can see both sides of my parents separation, they don't see what they did 'wrong' as easy. Dad thought mum wanted to make a profit too, but she didn't, she was just scared of the future (imo) and needed to be able to protect herself and me.

Long story short, they don't talk now and it is terrible!!! Please please please don't make the same mistake but do make sure you stand up for yourself!

I was deeply moved by this post and if you would like to Direct Message me with an email address I would like to reply to your post. Thanks for your original post.

lucernarian

@daltonmd

Having experienced the rigmarole of living between two parents who had quite the dispute over what and how much should be paid out over maintenance, I can say that to a large extent, the determination of what costs are substantially based on what the existing factors and expenditures are on various aspects of the child's life. (And I'm basing this on the final judgement made by a circuit court). Though my circumstances were different, luckily, in that both parents had an income that would support my upbringing at the time.

My point is, I'm not so sure that it's actually based on the ideals of natural justice or the reality of what happens to people over their lives. If one parent suffers a substantial drop in income after a court decision for example, it should not be the case that the amount of money paid towards maintenance remains the same.

Also, to a certain degree, people can game the system in so far as demonstrate that they never had a certain income to declare in the affadavit of means while simply either evading or avoiding the relevant legal requirements of declaration. Or else simply describe dubious expenses on the back of the child's needs in the assumption that no one will pry too deeply into such a legally binding document.

While I can see that you are reiterating how the principles of the system are applied, I may not necessarily agree on this implementation. One item I am confused about though (And maybe the OP could clarify) is what supplements regarding childcare etc. the state is supposed to offer were someone to find themselves dependent on employment benefit as their sole source of income. I also wonder what legal avenues there are to ensure the mother will spend money on the essential needs of the child before anything else. I can personally say that's a difficult area to define.

January

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

@daltonmd

Having experienced the rigmarole of living between two parents who had quite the dispute over what and how much should be paid out over maintenance, I can say that to a large extent, the determination of what costs are substantially based on what the existing factors and expenditures are on various aspects of the child's life. (And I'm basing this on the final judgement made by a circuit court). Though my circumstances were different, luckily, in that both parents had an income that would support my upbringing at the time.

My point is, I'm not so sure that it's actually based on the ideals of natural justice or the reality of what happens to people over their lives. If one parent suffers a substantial drop in income after a court decision for example, it should not be the case that the amount of money paid towards maintenance remains the same.

Also, to a certain degree, people can game the system in so far as demonstrate that they never had a certain income to declare in the affadavit of means while simply either evading or avoiding the relevant legal requirements of declaration. Or else simply describe dubious expenses on the back of the child's needs in the assumption that no one will pry too deeply into such a legally binding document.

While I can see that you are reiterating how the principles of the system are applied, I may not necessarily agree on this implementation. One item I am confused about though (And maybe the OP could clarify) is what supplements regarding childcare etc. the state is supposed to offer were someone to find themselves dependent on employment benefit as their sole source of income. I also wonder what legal avenues there are to ensure the mother will spend money on the essential needs of the child before anything else. I can personally say that's a difficult area to define.

Please see post #42. Keep the thread on topic please.

daltonmd

Deleted - Off topic

Orion

Let's see if I have this right. General warning issued. Person who replies to you gets warned. And then you reply again? Enough already. Take discussion of general family court issues to another thread or drop it. This thread is about the OP's circumstances only.

angelfire9

Ok, I'm going to try and respond to your original post with some info from my experiences
I have prepared a number of affidavits of means for clients mainly for divorce hearings in the circuit court but occassionally in the District Court in Ennis (I'm an accountant) so I have some experience in the financial workings of family courts (some of which were experiences I'd rather not repeat)

Davidian_ie wrote: »

Was in Court today regarding maintenance for my child and to say it was a bizzare experience is an understatement.

Don't want to go into all the details but am currently unemployed and attending College through Springboard anywhere between 2-4 days per week. The course is excellent and is really giving me hope that I may find work when I complete it.

My son lives with his Mother full time and I get access to see him 2 days per week 10am-6pm. She refuses to allow him to stay over with me.

Can I suggest when you get your Legal Aid solicitor that the issue of access be ironed out, refusing to allow you overnight access seems a bit unfair IMHO

But anyway....

Davidian_ie wrote: »

My ex partner is working in a well paid full time job and has her Mother living with her full time also, who doesn't work (also responsible for why we don't live together anymore). When we split up she refused to sign guardianship and I had to apply through the Court and do self representation. She was summoned, never showed up and it was granted. So next week I get a summons for maintenance.

I have never dodged any responsibility for my child, he is the most important thing in the world to me. Anything the Mother asked for I get and most of my family are in the States and send a lot of stuff over for him. I buy full on groceries twice per week for him, which includes all his nappies etc. To reduce my cost of living I moved back to my home place as my Mother spends a lot of time abroad and it is a little cheaper to travel to college.

Sounds like your EX is trying to make things as difficult for you as possible, but honestly there is light at the end of the tunnel, try not to get too stressed over it, one of my former clients (who had health problems anyway) ended up getting his ex's maintenance applications adjourned twice as he ended up in hospital with heart/stress related issues when the court dates were looming

Davidian_ie wrote: »

Bottom line is I get euro 188 per week. I have to borrow a car to collect my son and it costs me euro 40 on fuel to just collect him and bring him back home. My travel to Dublin can be anything from euro 25 to 45 per week. Then there are costs of books,printing, etc. I applied for a medical card months ago and never received it and have been told to forget about it until at least next February. Want to know the costs of inhalers? When my son comes to spend the day with me, I have to ensure that the place is heated and he is well fed. I don't get fuel allowance or food allowance. I scrounge money from sisters to help make up the shortfalls to buy his other grocery shops for when he is not with me. I keep receipts for everything and my financial commitment is unquestionable.

I decided to turn up for court and represent myself again, as I believed that it would be straight forward and the Judge would see I was doing my absolute best for my child.

Wow was I wrong. Immediately the Judge took umbrage with me for turning up without a solicitor. I explained that I was unemployed and couldn't afford one. His dislike of me continued unabated. He refused to look at any of my expenses or money receipts I had for expenditure on my child. I tried in vain to then explain them to him and he just had no interest in listening to me. I told him about my travel expenses to collect my son, he said I was driving the wrong car and should buy a diesel one. I told him I can't afford a car and borrow the one I use. He said I should think about getting a motorbike. I said I don't want to buy a motorbike, as I don't know how to ride one or have the ability to afford one. He said I would then need to get a bicycle and I asked him did he think it was appropriate in this weather to bring a 2 year old child on an 80km round trip on a bicycle, especially in this weather. He said there were people doing it. I said in 6 months I had yet to pass someone on the motorway cycling with a child in tow.

This was the general tone from start to finish.

Ok, firstly the judge has given you grounds for appeal if what you have said above is accurate
PROVIDED you had your financial documents well laid out (as opposed to just having a bundle of receipts stapled together
The judge is OBLIDGED to take into consideration the means of both parties when awarding maintenance
BUT
If your "expenses and money receipts" were just that, i.e. receipts and pieces of paper some judges will not be assed to go through them, not fair, not reasonable, but no unusual either unfortunately

Davidian_ie wrote: »

After trying to convey my situation to him, he proceeds to tell me if JP McManus was in front of him today all he could grant him to pay was a maximum of euro150. WTF!!???!!! He then grants an order of euro 100 against me, tells me that it costs euro 300 per week to maintain a child. At this stage all I could do was laugh, I thought it was a wind up. I asked him did he think this was just and how did he think I was going to A) be able to collect my son and take care of him on my access days and continue to go to College. I told him this was completely illogical and made no sense. I can't go to my sisters and say give me money to give my ex, they will refuse and it would be unfair to even consider asking them.

Ok, first off, the judge was correct in saying that the maximum amount of maintenance payable in the District court is €150 per week per child
He awarded your ex a payment of €100 per week based on a cost of €300 per week (which is a figure your ex must have produced as it is not likely that the judge pulled this figure out of the sky) though maybe he did his attitude doesn't seem the best

Davidian_ie wrote: »

The contribution from my ex's solicitor during the whole case was 'We don't want Mr.XXXXX bringing groceries to the house'.

So I said to the Judge his recommendation basically amounted to me either packing in College or seeing my son. It would be just totally impossible for me to manage, let alone have any provision for myself.

Regarding the groceries, your ex probably feels that you bringing groceries to her house implies that you don't trust her to buy food for the child
I know that seems illogical but its not your responsibility to buy food for her house
That is what you are paying her maintenance for

As a side note arguing with a judge in court is NEVER a good idea

Davidian_ie wrote: »

The Court Clerk told me originally when he looked at my situation that i would have to pay probably euro 30 to 40 per week.

While Court Clerks have experience in what the average maintenance awards may be from a certain judge on an average day, you have found to your cost that it's not the Clerks that make the decisions

Davidian_ie wrote: »

I'm really stressed out by this whole process and have had chest pains all evening. I want to work so my son wants for nothing but now I'm faced with the prospect of being trapped on the dole or leaving the country. The latter prospect would break my heart and I wouldn't be able to deal with being away from my son. I don't even think my ex expected this and has probably gone home thinking she has won the Court lottery. If she looked at the bigger picture she would see the way this is headed, that no matter what I end up paying is all going to end up in some solicitor's pocket. Surely it is in her interest that I finish College and get into work asap.

I will obviously appeal this and get it extended so that legal aid can hopefully fight my case, for the record, I'm on a waiting list for Legal Aid since June and have been told it will be late January before I will be seen.

Also can I request a different Judge to hear my appeal?

Forgive all typing mistakes. I'm stressed.

Ok, my final thoughts on this are as follows:

1) A different judge will automatically be assigned to hear the appeal

2) Get on to FLAC & talk to someone pending your legal aid being approved

3) Get a hold of all the documents your ex produced in court and go through them with a fine tooth comb (metaphorically speaking), if there are figures here that you find questionable, then when you get your solicitor lined up the first thing you do is question her figures

4) Prepare a DETAILED affidavit of means for yourself
By this I mean list your incomings & your outgoings and be able to back up EVERY SINGLE FIGURE
Get a receipt for EVERY PENNY you spend, even if its just €2 for milk in the shop get the receipt!!!

Every bill you pay, get a receipt for it, even if these means paying your bills at the post office to get the printed receipts

Get back on to the medical card office & get them to write out to you to tell you the status of your medical card application (best way to do this is probably to write into them and they'll reply in writing)

Get on to the HSE (write to them) asking about your entitlements to fuel allowance and keep the letter they send you back denying your claim for that
Keep the receipts you get in the post office where you collect your dole

If you have any outstanding loans get loan statements
Get bank statements from any bank or credit union accounts you have, even if they show a "0" balance

Lastly, relax, honestly you will feel better anyway once you start getting all your little ducks in a row for the appeal

In the interim pay her the money that was ordered, it will only make you look bad if you don't
If you have to borrow money to pay it then borrow it BUT get it in WRITING that you had to borrow it

angelfire9

I should have said this as well
For the OP or anyone else in this situation

When preparing an affidavit of means have a 1 page TYPED document for the judge to review (it will make things much easier)
On it List (in this order)

Assets - If you have any i.e. car, house etc (put a value on them don't just state that you have a 2010 Toyota Corolla and a 2 bedroom house) :rolleyes:
NOTE: A Pension if you have one is counted as an asset for the purposes of family law
Liabilities - Outstanding loans / mortgage etc

Income
List your sources of income and the weekly or monthly amount in one column and the annual amount in another column
(income should be stated net of PAYE/PRSI/USC i.e. show what you get in your hand not the gross figure)
Add up your Income and total them weekly/monthly & annual

Less Expenses
List out your expenses per week or month (and have an annual column for these as well)
List things like rent or mortgage first followed by legal obligations like motor tax or your TV licence, followed by insurance followed by food followed by luxuries like Sky TV or whatever (In order of necessity in other words)

Add up your expenses and total them weekly/monthly & annual

On the bottom line show
Excess of Income over Expenditure
OR
Excess of Expenditure over Income
Show the figure weekly or monthly AND Annually
If your expenditure exceeds your income its common practice to highlight the Excess of E over I in Red ink

and make sure you can back up every single figure

Generally when I'm dealing with a client's divorce I do this for both parties (based on the discovery documents)

Davidian_ie

Thank you Angelfire, that looks like top class advice to me, just a pity I didn't have it prior to my initial hearing but it is all noted for my appeal. Thanks again, much appreciated.

angelfire9

Davidian_ie wrote: »

Thank you Angelfire, that looks like top class advice to me, just a pity I didn't have it prior to my initial hearing but it is all noted for my appeal. Thanks again, much appreciated.

No problem
In my experience making things as simple as possible for the judge to understand will go along way towards having them side with you

Good luck with the appeal & let us know how you get on!

Davidian_ie

Regarding Father's rights to access their kids, law changes seem to be on the cards in the UK. Not meaning to sound sceptical but probably take Ireland 20 years to play catch up on such changes.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/8995395/Divorced-mums-and-dads-could-get-legal-right-to-see-their-children.html

http://www.madeformums.com/mums-and-dads/legal-rights-of-divorced-parents-set-to-be-enforced/20933.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082970/Divorced-parents-risk-jail-stop-ex-partner-seeing-children-new-law.html