Landlord selling apartment

ToxicPaddy

Ok I have a bit of a situation here:

I am about to get the keys to an apartment that I plan to move into over Xmas. I haven't signed the lease yet, but have paid a deposit, have given notice to my current landlord and have provided references all of which have checked out and the lease was a mere formality according to the letting agent now that everything has checked out.

However, I have just been informed by the letting agent that the landlord is now going to sell the place. Maybe it's just me but how coincidental is it that as soon as I'm about the sign the lease the letting agent announces this?

They have tried to convince me that its not a problem, it won't affect me and that the landlord probably wont be able to sell it anyway in the current climate. I figured they would say that as they are looking for their commission.

However I am a bit worried as if the landlord is looking for offload the property, they might not be so willing to fix things or spend any money if problems arise with it and I could be turfed out on my ear in a few months time if the new owners decide they want to use it themselves or rent it to someone else.

Any suggestions or guarantees I need to look for from the letting agent/landlord before I sign on the dotted line? Or is it even possible to get these sorts of things that can be then passed onto the new owners?

Tox

who_ru

talk to your current LL and see if you can stay where you are for the time being. there's no way i'd sign that lease under the circumstances.

littleredspot

I'd run a mile. I know it'll be inconvenient for you to change your plan, but as you say it's very unlikely that the landlord will want to put much care/ money into the place if they are selling it. Do you really want to be renting off a landlord who doesn't want to be a landlord? Also you may have the disruption of having to allow viewings.
As far as I know, selling the property is a valid excuse for the landlord breaking the lease so any guarantees would be worthless.

ToxicPaddy

littleredspot wrote: »

I'd run a mile. I know it'll be inconvenient for you to change your plan, but as you say it's very unlikely that the landlord will want to put much care/ money into the place if they are selling it. Do you really want to be renting off a landlord who doesn't want to be a landlord? Also you may have the disruption of having to allow viewings.
As far as I know, selling the property is a valid excuse for the landlord breaking the lease so any guarantees would be worthless.

Well that's the thing, the landlord is apparently keen to get me to sign the lease so I am a bit confused to be honest. They insisted the lease was signed before Xmas and as soon as I am about to they announce they are going to sell the place.

The place is in very good condition and the landlord just has the carpets and whole place professional cleaned. Previous tenants moved out at the start of Dec and I have been over there twice and the place has been repainted and 2 x new sofas just put in. Its all very confusing

Dunno what to make of it all.

If you sign a fixed term lease, the landlord cannot break the lease, even if selling. What it will mean though, is that if you really like the place, you may not be able to stay there any longer than the lease allows.

I don't think you can judge whether or not the landlord will be a good landlord just because he plans to sell the property though.

ToxicPaddy

who_ru wrote: »

talk to your current LL and see if you can stay where you are for the time being. there's no way i'd sign that lease under the circumstances.

The current landlord wants me to sign the lease asap and was very much interested in getting it all signed off before Xmas.

zac8

You could try to turn it to your advantage by re-negotiating the rent. It's a bit of a gamble in that it could be sold but maybe it's worth seeing how much you could reduce it by?

I rented a house that was for sale for 2 years and only had to accomodate one viewing in that time. I got one third knocked off the rent.

ToxicPaddy

Deleted User wrote: »

If you sign a fixed term lease, the landlord cannot break the lease, even if selling. What it will mean though, is that if you really like the place, you may not be able to stay there any longer than the lease allows.

I don't think you can judge whether or not the landlord will be a good landlord just because he plans to sell the property though.

Well its a 12 month lease.. so if thats the case then thats good news. However if someone was to purchase the property I'd be looking for at least 60 days notice before I was pushed out as I travel a lot with work and the hassle of moving is crazy. Added to that I don't really have time to find a new place now before my notice period is up..

TheZohanS

It might take the landlord a while to sell it or he may even have agreed a sale with someone at this stage but you have no guarantee that if he does sell it that it won't be to an owner occupier and that's when things get tricky for you.

To be honest if I was looking to rent somewhere long term I wouldn't move in. Do you really need the hassle of possibly having to move out in a few months?

F1ngers

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

The current landlord wants me to sign the lease asap and was very much interested in getting it all signed off before Xmas.

Your current LL is the one you just gave notice to - See if you can stay in your current location and stay away from that mess you seem to be walking into.

The LL that wants you to sign before xmas is not your current LL - (s)he is a potential LL.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If you sign a fixed term lease, the landlord cannot break the lease, even if selling. ...........

I think you'll find that isn't the case.

ToxicPaddy

F1ngers wrote: »

Your current LL is the one you just gave notice to - See if you can stay in your current location and stay away from that mess you seem to be walking into.

The LL that wants you to sign before xmas is not your current LL - (s)he is a potential LL.

Sorry, you're right, my mistake.. getting a bit confused here

I'm currently in an apartment share and they room is already going to someone else who is planning on moving in as soon as I leave. So I don't think I can go back on that as deposits have been paid etc.

The future landlord is the one who wants me to sign before Xmas. I have contacted the letting agent and requested a chat with the future landlord to see where they stand.

Kosseegan

RoverJames wrote: »

I think you'll find that isn't the case.

What will he find?

Kosseegan

Kosseegan wrote: »

What will he find?

the residential tenancies act 2004

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

the residential tenancies act 2004

The tenant cannot be affected by a sale during a fixed term lease. If the landlord does manage to sell the house during the term, the new owners must honour the lease.

odds_on

Originally posted by woopsadaisydoodles:
If you sign a fixed term lease, the landlord cannot break the lease, even if selling. What it will mean though, is that if you really like the place, you may not be able to stay there any longer than the lease allows.

RoverJames wrote: »

I think you'll find that isn't the case.

RoverJames, you are completely wrong. A fixed Term lease is exactly what it says on the label - FIXED TERM. Please read the following about a Fixed Term Tenancy Lease.

Fixed Term Tenancy
Fixed Term lease is for a defined period of time, usually 1 year, but may be more or as short as 3 months. The lease defines the starting date and the termination date. On the termination date the lease ends. The lease must state that it is a fixed term lease; failure to do so makes the lease a Part 4 lease. Neither landlord nor tenant can break a fixed term lease before the termination date (except for special circumstances, see below).
A fixed term lease has numerous clauses defining the terms and conditions of the lease including the obligations of the tenants and the landlord's obligations, including many of the conditions as defined in the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 plus special conditions that the landlord wants to include, such as no smoking within the property and certain maintenance that the tenant should do e.g. caring for the garden.

A fixed term lease cannot be broken by either tenant or landlord whenever they feel like it, as the lease is a contract for a fixed period of time. However, under certain circumstances a fixed term lease may be broken:
1. A tenant or landlord may serve a Notice of Termination (which must be in the prescribed manner) if the other party is in breach of the terms and conditions of the lease. However, the offending party has to be given a reasonable time to remedy the matter. The notice period required depends on the time the tenant has been in occupation and is 28 days for occupation of less that 6 months and 35 days if occupation is between 6 months and 1 year (longer times are required if occupancy is over 1 year).
2. Tenants may be served with a Notice of Termination for anti-social behaviour - 28 days for non serious behaviour and 7 days for serious offences.
3. If a tenant just wishes to leave (maybe for personal reasons such as getting a job in another part of the country or he has lost his job and can no longer afford the rent), he cannot break the lease. However, the law allows him to “assign” the lease to another person who then takes over the remaining part of the lease. The tenant should first seek permission from the landlord and should he not allow the assignment, the tenant is free to leave at the end of the notice period. Seldom will the landlord refuse the request and it is up to the tenant to find someone that is acceptable to the landlord (after the landlord’s vetting checks). If the tenant fails to find an “assignee”, or if the landlord has to find the assignee, the tenant is liable for the landlord’s reasonable expenses in so doing and may also be liable for the rent up to the expiry of the lease.
4. Sometimes there is a clause in the lease, known as a break clause which defines a time at which a landlord or tenant may break the lease. This allows a tenant (or landlord) to break the lease at that particular time, often at the six month period (or at the time that the lease states) for whatever reason, following a Notice of Termination.
5. A fixed term lease may be broken by mutual agreement between the landlord and tenant. However, there should be some form of written agreement to this effect, stating any terms that may be included.
6. A landlord can offer (but without harassment to the tenant) to “buy-out” the lease from the tenant by offering the tenant some form of consideration (usually by offering a “cash incentive”). However, the tenant is not obliged to sell his part of the lease. In a buy-out situation, the tenant has the upper hand and any terms of the buy out can be set by him and to his distinct advantage. Any form of buy out should be a written agreement stating the exact terms of the buy-out.

If at the end of a fixed term lease the tenant wishes to remain in the property, he should advise the landlord between 3 months and 1 month prior to the termination of the lease. The tenant has the option of signing a new fixed lease or of using his Part 4 rights, to claim a Part 4 tenancy. In this latter case, he should have advised the landlord accordingly, between 3 and 1 month prior to the end of the fixed term lease. If the tenant does not wish to remain in the property at the end of the fixed term, he does not have to advise the landlord as the lease automatically ends but it is polite to do so.

ToxicPaddy

Has anyone had any dealings with such an issue as this before? I tried to contact the PTRB but their response time is 15 days for an email and I just sat on hold for the guts of an hour in a queue on the phone

A fixed term lease does not supercede the legal rights of either tenant or landlord.
Throw up a pdf of this fixed term lease with the personal details edited out.

Carriexx

She hasnt even seen the lease - so how do you know what the lease terms are??

ToxicPaddy

Carriexx wrote: »

She hasnt even seen the lease - so how do you know what the lease terms are??

eh He!!

I'm a he!!

Well I'll be reviewing the lease very thoroughly before I sign. Anyone know what to look out for?

Carriexx

Carriexx wrote: »

She hasnt even seen the lease - so how do you know what the lease terms are??

How many fixed term residential leases have you seen without facilitation for the landlord to terminate when it suits them if they really have to?

nibtrix

RoverJames wrote: »

How many fixed term residential leases have you seen without facilitation for the landlord to terminate when it suits them if they really have to?

Any of the leases I have signed have had no break clause, therefore there was no way for the landlord to terminate before the end of the lease. Part 4 tenancy laws are superseded by a fixed-term lease.

OP, make sure you read the lease very very carefully if you're going to go ahead. If there is no break clause then the landlord cannot evict you before the 12 months is up.

You are also under no obligation to allow viewings. You are entitled to privacy and the landlord cannot insist on viewings. They are entitled to regular inspections, but these are not viewings and you have to right to be present and to sufficient notice of these inspections (min 24 hours, but if you are not available then they must reschedule).

If you do decide to allow viewings, out of the goodness of your heart, I suggest specifying a particular time that suits you - the landlord was selling the apartment I last lived in and I allowed viewings only on monday evenings, between 6 and 8, and they needed to let me know by the proceeding friday.

ToxicPaddy

nibtrix wrote: »

Any of the leases I have signed have had no break clause, therefore there was no way for the landlord to terminate before the end of the lease. Part 4 tenancy laws are superseded by a fixed-term lease.

OP, make sure you read the lease very very carefully if you're going to go ahead. If there is no break clause then the landlord cannot evict you before the 12 months is up.

You are also under no obligation to allow viewings. You are entitled to privacy and the landlord cannot insist on viewings. They are entitled to regular inspections, but these are not viewings and you have to right to be present and to sufficient notice of these inspections (min 24 hours, but if you are not available then they must reschedule).

If you do decide to allow viewings, out of the goodness of your heart, I suggest specifying a particular time that suits you - the landlord was selling the apartment I last lived in and I allowed viewings only on monday evenings, between 6 and 8, and they needed to let me know by the proceeding friday.

Good info there nibtrix, thanks for that.

I have no problem with the landlord selling the property and I will happy to accommodate them in any way I can as long as it does not affect my tenancy.

Viewings will not be a problem as I can be flexible when it comes to things like that. The place will be kept in a very clean well presented state, after all it will be my home for the time I'm there and I always try to be a good tenant. I just expect the landlord to be respectful of my needs and wishes too. The last thing I want to do is create a state of animosity with a new landlord so if they are willing to play ball, then so am I.

Its the letting agency I have my worries about as my experience of letting agents has rarely if ever been good and all they are interested in doing is lining their pockets.