Scotrail No Ticket, **** on a Train

Biggins

Johro wrote: »

Different scenario altogether. These were violent thugs who happened to jump a train. And this calls for the public to get involved?? Coz that's what we're talking about here.
Great.

*Cough*

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76049835&postcount=246

Another ticket inspector going about doing his job - and gets treated badly for it.
Not a different scenario whatsoever.

Cicero

I would have thought in this instance that radioing in for assistance..I.e.transport police, would have been the best approach....the student was not violently aggressive nor did he appear an immediate threat to other passengers - he refused to leave the train, that was still at the station- yes he gave lip to the conductor- but given a minute or two, other official support could have been drafted in to deal with it.
I've come across many a thug and ignorant eigit on public transport but in this instance, where no violence was Imminent, the conductor should have summoned back up to deal with it .

A Dub in Glasgo

Cicero wrote: »

I would have thought in this instance that radioing in for assistance..I.e.transport police, would have been the best approach....the student was not violently aggressive nor did he appear an immediate threat to other passengers - he refused to leave the train, that was still at the station- yes he gave lip to the conductor- but given a minute or two, other official support could have been drafted in to deal with it.
I've come across many a thug and ignorant eigit on public transport but in this instance, where no violence was Imminent, the conductor should have summoned back up to deal with it .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76023331&postcount=211

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76026597&postcount=219

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76049447&postcount=244

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76050194&postcount=249

Cicero

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76023331&postcount=211

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76026597&postcount=219

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76049447&postcount=244

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76050194&postcount=249

1. According to the original article this is not a case of fare dodging...it's a case of a student given the wrong ticket when purchasing 2 single tickets....whether you believe that or not is entirely up to you...but I know I for one would not like to be manhandled off a train when I had a ticket in my hand that I paid for in good faith.

2. According to you, transport police do not respond quickly to instances of fare dodging as they do not see it as a priority....so why then, should a member of the public go contrary to that policy and take the law into their own hands.


Btw...all of your posts above are supposition by you...not facts...how do we know that there were police at the ready in the station that could have been summoned earlier than what you are claiming
There are many students on this forum...I would like to hear from them as to what they would have done if they found themselves on a train, going home after exams, with the wrong ticket, and told to get off the train?

A Dub in Glasgo

Cicero wrote: »

1. According to the original article this is not a case of fare dodging...it's a case of a student given the wrong ticket when purchasing 2 single tickets....whether you believe that or not is entirely up to you...but I know I for one would not like to be manhandled off a train when I had a ticket in my hand that I paid for in good faith.

2. According to you, transport police do not respond quickly to instances of fare dodging as they do not see it as a priority....so why then, should a member of the public go contrary to that policy and take the law into their own hands.

There are many students on this forum...I would like to hear from them as to what they would have done if they found themselves on a train, going home after exams, with the wrong ticket, and told to get off the train?

1. He did not have a valid ticket for his journey therefore it is fare dodging. If he is now claiming he got sold 2 singles, one would assume he can produce the 2 tickets and he distinctly failed to do anything about it from the time he bought the ticket. I certainly do not believe him.

2. I have first hand experience of the BTP not turning up as they view incidents like this one as a very low priority. Why do you think the BTP would be there in minutes and what would you have done if you were the guard?

Biggins

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

1. He did not have a valid ticket for his journey therefore it is fare dodging. If he is now claiming he got sold 2 singles, one would assume he can produce the 2 tickets and he distinctly failed to do anything about it from the time he bought the ticket. I certainly do not believe him.

Yep, for all the interviews he has done - NOT ONCE has he produced these two tickets he has claimed he had!

Cicero

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

1. He did not have a valid ticket for his journey therefore it is fare dodging. If he is now claiming he got sold 2 singles, one would assume he can produce the 2 tickets and he distinctly failed to do anything about it from the time he bought the ticket. I certainly do not believe him.
d?

He's not a thug as people would like to believe...he's a student...But that unfortunately is getting in the way of a good story....if it were a middle class woman or an elderly gentleman that the inspector was shouting at I guarantee you Mr. Financier to the rescue would be on the side of the passenger, not the student.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Why do you think the BTP would be there in minutes and what would you have done if you were the guard?

followed procedure...whatever that is....Again, the company in the article has stated they don't want members of the public taking matters into their own hands.....this was not a violent incident which would merit public support and intervention to support the inspector ...it was at the very most, a case of suspected fare dodging or a passenger believing they had a right to be on a train because they purchased, all be it, an invalid ticket, in good faith..

Cicero

Biggins wrote: »

Yep, for all the interviews he has done - NOT ONCE has he produced these two tickets he has claimed he had!

Well...if I purchased 2 single tickets, and used one of them, I'd throw it away.

Biggins

Cicero wrote: »

Well...if I purchased 2 single tickets, and used one of them, I'd throw it away.

Indeed you would - if you were on a journey and successfully got to your destination.
However if you were kicked off your transport, you might however in anger and protest alone, keep such tickets to show your rights and expose your innocence.

We will all await him to produce anything that might back up his version of events!

O' and he's a nineteen year old adult student.

A Dub in Glasgo

Cicero wrote: »

Well...if I purchased 2 single tickets, and used one of them, I'd throw it away.

Why would you do that if you realised that you were sold 2 singles rather than a return? You would need to show the 2 singles that were given to you to try and remedy the situation. This is getting far fetched now. The guy was fare dodging and was caught. Not the greatest crime in the world and I know people who do it and pay if they are caught. The difference here is this immature man would not pay and refused an instruction to leave the train thus delaying the service for everyone.

Cicero

Biggins wrote: »

Indeed you would - if you were on a journey and successfully got to your destination.


O' and he's a nineteen year old adult student.

I am aware of his age...he's still a student....I just think that due to the way he was dressed, that people immediately jumped to the conclusion that he was a thug....he's not...that's why this whole case is not so clear cut.....and so decisive....the inspector totally mishandled this incident...what happened to taking name and address and issuing a fine?

I support public intervention in instances where there is a threat of violence but in this instance I believe Mr. financier and the inspector were both wrong in what they did....and I don't think any Irish student, 19 adult or otherwise, would like to be treated like that, fare evader or not.

Biggins

Cicero wrote: »

I am aware of his age...he's still a student....I just think that due to the way he was dressed, that people immediately jumped to the conclusion that he was a thug....he's not...that's why this whole case is not so clear cut.....and so decisive....the inspector totally mishandled this incident...what happened to taking name and address and issuing a fine?

I support public intervention in instances where there is a threat of violence but in this instance I believe Mr. financier and the inspector were both wrong in what they did....and I don't think any Irish student, 19 adult or otherwise, would like to be treated like that, fare evader or not.

Well your entitled to think that (and I'd fight for your right to think it) but I do disagree.
The 19 year old was wrong in his manner, words and in his failure to show the proper ticket.
Had he been polite MAYBE in the face (as others might see it) of an angry inspector reacting to treatment of himself and his authority, the 19 year old might have had a better outcome.
...Sadly his words and actions brought about his own consequences.

A Dub in Glasgo

Cicero wrote: »

I am aware of his age...he's still a student....I just think that due to the way he was dressed, that people immediately jumped to the conclusion that he was a thug..

Actually I would say it was the way he behaved rather than the way he is dressed that will lead people to think he is acting in a thuggish or loutish manner

Cicero

Biggins wrote: »

Well your entitled to think that (and I'd fight for your right to think it) but I do disagree.
The 19 year old was wrong in his manner, words and in his failure to show the proper ticket.
Had he been polite MAYBE in the face (as others might see it) of an angry inspector reacting to treatment of himself and his authority, the 19 year old might have had a better outcome.
...Sadly his words and actions brought about his own consequences.

Don't get me wrong Mr. Biggins. I'm not defending the students behaviour- I totally agree with you that the students manner was not appropriate to the situation- and yes, it helped contribute to his downfall...but I'm still not in agreement that such a person be dumped off a train and injured in the process by a member of the public where no thread of violence existed.

Cicero

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Actually I would say it was the way he behaved rather than the way he is dressed that will lead people to think he is acting in a thuggish or loutish manner

As I said to Biggins above, I believe the student did himself no favours, but the inspector handled the situation in a total confrontational manner from the outset of the video- I suppose the question for all contributing to this thread is...what would you have done when faced with this inspector talking to you in the manner he did?

Biggins

Cicero wrote: »

Don't get me wrong Mr. Biggins. I'm not defending the students behaviour- I totally agree with you that the students manner was not appropriate to the situation- and yes, it helped contribute to his downfall...but I'm still not in agreement that such a person be dumped off a train and injured in the process by a member of the public where no thread of violence existed.

Well again, we don't know the full facts, the atmosphere on the train at the time, etc.
There might have been a fear in the air that trouble was about to start - and thus maybe that is why someone stepped up before things might have got further out of hand.

Sadly as we have seen in the last day or so, ticket collectors are not immune from being attacked.
Maybe the feeling at the time was that, given the attitude/loutishness of the 19 year old, silly abrupt violence might have been shortly away from happening - and someone stood up just in case and/or as a precaution.

efb

Cicero wrote: »

As I said to Biggins above, I believe the student did himself no favours, but the inspector handled the situation in a total confrontational manner from the outset of the video- I suppose the question for all contributing to this thread is...what would you have done when faced with this inspector talking to you in the manner he did?

I'd show him my valid ticket.

Cicero

Biggins wrote: »

Maybe the feeling at the time was that, given the attitude/loutishness of the 19 year old, silly abrupt violence might have been shortly away from happening - and someone stood up just in case and/or as a precaution.

certainly inspectors, bus drivers etc need more support in such instances- putting your life at risk over an unpaid fare does not make sense, but that should be down to the procedure of the company and the law of the land..we're debating semantics in ONE instance ...unfortunately I've seen much worse instances on Irish transport that Certainly would have merited public intervention....but unfortunately, the law may well go against the public in these instances too,,

Biggins

Cicero wrote: »

certainly inspectors, bus drivers etc need more support in such instances- putting your life at risk over an unpaid fare does not make sense, but that should be down to the procedure of the company and the law of the land..we're debating semantics in ONE instance ...unfortunately I've seen much worse instances on Irish transport that Certainly would have merited public intervention....but unfortunately, the law may well go against the public in these instances too,,

Just in regard to "putting your life at risk over an unpaid fare does not make sense"
You are right but in real time when such events occur, such train workers for example, are only going about doing their job, and while doing so suddenly sometimes find themselves in that situation by a reaction of others, to them doing their job.

One can only try to do what is expected of and being paid to do.

If an unforeseen consequence later is that such a job might give rise to such occasions - they cannot be predicted in advance but they might be stopped before they might further escalate into such bad events.

Cicero

[QUOTE=Biggins;76062086

If an unforeseen consequence later is that such a job might give rise to such occasions - they cannot be predicted in advance but they might be stopped before they might further escalate into such bad events.[/QUOTE]

a good point.^^^...but one frought with legal difficulties.....

...I would not like to see it go the way the airlines have gone...Like that story of the man who complained about a sandwich he received on a flight, and had the guards waiting for him on arrival....
I guess it's hard to maintain balance with these things

wolfpawnat

This attitude should be taken here too. I was on a train from Limerick to Limerick Junction once and 2 scumbags started smoking, a middle aged woman asked them not two and they got very threatening and abusive to her, it was an English man threatening to beat their 2 heads in to get them to stop, went over and forced them both to stub their cigarettes before he sat back down. Man is a hero in my books. We Irish can be all talk and no action.

In other countries people are more respectful of rules. I wish we could have some grasp of that concept here too. Why should that man get a free ride and everyone else pay? Does that mean no one should pay?

Biggins

Cicero wrote: »

a good point.^^^...but one frought with legal difficulties.....

...I would not like to see it go the way the airlines have gone...Like that story of the man who complained about a sandwich he received on a flight, and had the guards waiting for him on arrival....
I guess it's hard to maintain balance with these things

Thankfully thats why some laws are good and enacted.
As in this case, the incident is being checked for any outright breaking of public laws.
The police are doing the right thing with official investigation.
I, myself though will be very surprised in this case, if anyone is actually charged with anything.
Token warnings given etc, as part PR to show that they are espousing an official legal line but I suspect deep down, the authorities will have no real wish to see anyone up in a dock.
Public opinion is (it seems) against them alone in this particular case, if they do seek to prosecute the "Big Man".

A Dub in Glasgo

Cicero wrote: »

As I said to Biggins above, I believe the student did himself no favours, but the inspector handled the situation in a total confrontational manner from the outset of the video- I suppose the question for all contributing to this thread is...what would you have done when faced with this inspector talking to you in the manner he did?

I would buy a ticket, it is not rocket science

Cicero

Biggins wrote: »

Thankfully thats why some laws are good and enacted.
As in this case, the incident is being checked for any outright breaking of public laws.
The police are doing the right thing with official investigation.
I, myself though will be very surprised in this case, if anyone is actually charged with anything.
Token warnings given etc, as part PR to show that they are espousing an official legal line but I suspect deep down, the authorities will have no real wish to see anyone up in a dock.
Public opinion is (it seems) against them alone in this particular case, if they do seek to prosecute the "Big Man".

I agree....nothing good will come of a prosecution in this instance...I feel that rail staff need to have much clearer procedures to follow though in such instances...or else to follow them more closely if they exist.

Cicero

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I would buy a ticket, it is not rocket science

When faced with a shouting inspector, in full view of members of the public, it's easy to say that after the event...had I been in the same situation, and had genuinely purchased the wrong ticket, I would have (a) told the inspector to stop shouting at me and (b) explained my case in full...I also wouldn't have taken too kindly to be manhandled off a train...

A Dub in Glasgo

Cicero wrote: »

When faced with a shouting inspector, in full view of members of the public, it's easy to say that after the event...had I been in the same situation, and had genuinely purchased the wrong ticket, I would have (a) told the inspector to stop shouting at me and (b) explained my case in full...I also wouldn't have taken too kindly to be manhandled off a train...

The guy who put the video up on You Tube explained that the incident was ongoing for a few minutes before he started recording and the passenger refused to buy a ticket or show a valid ticket or explain anything why.

You are still clinging onto the 'I bought 2 valid tickets earlier in the day and the guy who sold them to me gave me 2 single tickets for the same journey' line that this guy has spun after the event. He was trying it on and should have bought his ticket like millions of other people every day.

Irrespective of what happened earlier in the day, the man did not produce a valid ticket, swore at the guard and refused an instruction to leave the train. That is 3 byelaw offenses broken straight away.

Cicero

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The guy who put the video up on You Tube explained that the incident was ongoing for a few minutes before he started recording and the passenger refused to buy a ticket or show a valid ticket or explain anything why.

You are still clinging onto the 'I bought 2 valid tickets earlier in the day and the guy who sold them to me gave me 2 single tickets for the same journey' line that this guy has spun after the event. He was trying it on and should have bought his ticket like millions of other people every day.

Irrespective of what happened earlier in the day, the man did not produce a valid ticket, swore at the guard and refused an instruction to leave the train. That is 3 byelaw offenses broken straight away.

In fairness I can only go on what I can observe....not what potentially happened or what we may think is the truth...or what someone said happened.....to finish my contribution to this thread, I believe all 3 people were wrong in what they did and/ or how they went about doing it.....

Biggins

Cicero wrote: »

In fairness I can only go on what I can observe....not what potentially happened or what we may think is the truth...or what someone said happened.....to finish my contribution to this thread, I believe all 3 people were wrong in what they did and/ or how they went about doing it.....

Its in the laps of the gods - as its said.

One thing we can be sure of, if the man had of just produced a correct ticket, it would have been thankfully one less incident on a transport.
Sadly, it was to be a 'plus' rather than a 'minus'.

efb

Cicero wrote: »

When faced with a shouting inspector, in full view of members of the public, it's easy to say that after the event...had I been in the same situation, and had genuinely purchased the wrong ticket, I would have (a) told the inspector to stop shouting at me and (b) explained my case in full...I also wouldn't have taken too kindly to be manhandled off a train...

I wouldn't board a train without a valid ticket, I can't abide people who wont pay their way.

If your not old or infirm, and deserve a valid pass, buy a ticket. Simples.

prinz

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/youths-quizzed-over-stabbing-of-ticket-inspector-in-uk-532744.html

Just thought I'd drop this here. How dare a ticket inspector get 'confrontational'... brought it on himself obviously..

Biggins

prinz wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/youths-quizzed-over-stabbing-of-ticket-inspector-in-uk-532744.html

Just thought I'd drop this here. How dare a ticket inspector get 'confrontational'... brought it on himself obviously..

Good to hear at least that they might have the culprit.

Manic Moran

The saga continues.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076718/Sam-Main-thrown-train-Big-Man-You-Tube-hero-tried-trip-conductor.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

But CCTV footage from the train has shown a new side to the story, which is missing from the clip which became an online sensation.

Filmed earlier in the journey, it is understood to show student Sam Main trying to trip up the white-haired conductor as he goes about his work.

After a heated argument with the man, the youth is seen putting his leg out into the train aisle to block his way, with the next frame appearing to show the conductor forced to step over him to leave.

The Scotrail conductor - who was interviewed by his employer following the incident - is believed to have told rail sources that the student purposely tried to trip him.

Still no news on the police investigation.

NTM

Biggins

Student thrown off train by 'Big Man' You Tube hero 'tried to trip up conductor'

CCTV footage from the train has shown a new side to the story, which is missing from the clip which became an online sensation.

Filmed earlier in the journey, it is understood to show student Sam Main trying to trip up the white-haired conductor as he goes about his work.
After a heated argument with the man, the youth is seen putting his leg out into the train aisle to block his way, with the next frame appearing to show the conductor forced to step over him to leave.

The Scotrail conductor - who was interviewed by his employer following the incident - is believed to have told rail sources that the student purposely tried to trip him.

It is a revelation which is likely to cause even more controversy over the fact that Mr Pollock could now face an assault charge for hauling the teenager off the train.
Mr Main has still conspicuously failed to apologise for his behaviour on the 9.33pm Edinburgh to Perth train on December 9.
The building surveying student subjected the conductor and a young family in a neighbouring seat* to a four-letter tirade as he refused to accept he did not have a valid rail ticket. He then held up dozens of other commuters by refusing to leave the train, despite being asked several times.

...The only person to have spoken out is Mr Main, from Falkirk, Stirlingshire. He last week launched a litany of excuses for his behaviour, blaming his long day, diabetes and hungry state, as well as claiming he had been sold the wrong ticket for his return journey.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076718/Sam-Main-thrown-train-Big-Man-You-Tube-hero-tried-trip-conductor.html#ixzz1h9fdiIWf

Sadly again we see/hear, the 19 year old was not as innocent as some would have him made out to be.

* Further news to me! Charming again!

opinion guy

Biggins wrote: »

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076718/Sam-Main-thrown-train-Big-Man-You-Tube-hero-tried-trip-conductor.html#ixzz1h9fdiIWf

Sadly again we see/hear, the 19 year old was not as innocent as some would have him made out to be.

* Further news to me! Charming again!

Well agreed this makes him look worse.
However it also says there was a heated discussion with the conductor before the video we've seen. I wonder do they have audio of that ?

The young family is clearly visible in the video and in fact almost get clobbered by the actions of the big man. Coudl it be biggins that you didn't watch the video so closely in the first place ? You can see the mum taking a dig at someone - it appears to be the bigman actually. I wouldn't blame her for being annoyed at him for as a direct result of him stepping in her kids almost get clobbered by the teen flying through the air.

WoollyRedHat

As punishment the student should be made collect tickets on the train for a month, no pay, while the conductor gets a months holidays with pay, teach the young pup a thing about manners!

Biggins

opinion guy wrote: »

Well agreed this makes him look worse.
However it also says there was a heated discussion with the conductor before the video we've seen. I wonder do they have audio of that ?

The young family is clearly visible in the video and in fact almost get clobbered by the actions of the big man. Coudl it be biggins that you didn't watch the video so closely in the first place ? You can see the mum taking a dig at someone - it appears to be the bigman actually. I wouldn't blame her for being annoyed at him for as a direct result of him stepping in her kids almost get clobbered by the teen flying through the air.

Could be the family that the younger man annoyed, was on his way out, taking a swipe at him and managed to get the big man too.
They were moving and rummaging so much about with the younger man struggling back that anything is possible.

Long story short is that the young mans actions as on now caught CCTV and on phone video, were deplorable and only show him up more and further expose his true character.

My own opinion of him has not changed - in fact only with the latest CCTV footage, has only made it stronger.
He certainly brought about upon himself that which he soon got.

opinion guy

Biggins wrote: »

Could be the family that the younger man annoyed, was on his way out, taking a swipe at him and managed to get the big man too.
They were moving and rummaging so much about with the younger man struggling back that anything is possible.

Long story short is that the young mans actions as on now caught CCTV and on phone video, were deplorable and only show him up more and further expose his true character.

My own opinion of him has not changed - in fact only with the latest CCTV footage, has only made it stronger.
He certainly brought about upon himself that which he soon got.

Have you actually seen the footage or only read what the Daily Hate has to say about it ? Has it been confirmed by any other news source ?

Biggins

opinion guy wrote: »

Have you actually seen the footage or only read what the Daily Hate has to say about it ? Has it been confirmed by any other news source ?

* http://newsnewers.com/934/sam-main-thrown-off-train-by-big-man-you-tube-hero-tried-to-trip-up-conductor

* Scottish newspaper: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/investigations-reveal-student-was-sold-wrong-ticket.16216486

The train company CCTV footage has only emerged after investigations and upon confirming its veracity, are able to say for certain what it shows.

The young man is now under further deeper investigation, apparently he too could be facing charges.

opinion guy

Biggins wrote: »

* http://newsnewers.com/934/sam-main-thrown-off-train-by-big-man-you-tube-hero-tried-to-trip-up-conductor

* Scottish newspaper: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/investigations-reveal-student-was-sold-wrong-ticket.16216486

The train company CCTV footage has only emerged after investigations and upon confirming its veracity, are able to say for certain what it shows.

The young man is now under further deeper investigation.

OK so I see its confirmed he was actually sold the wrong ticket - I think that's important too and you neglected to point it out.

If he did try to trip the conductor that is poor form indeed. However I'd like to see that footage before making a judgement.

Either way - the big man's actions were still the wrong way to deal with it.

Biggins

opinion guy wrote: »

OK so I see its confirmed he was actually sold the wrong ticket - I think that's important too and you neglected to point it out.

If he did try to trip the conductor that is poor form indeed. However I'd like to see that footage before making a judgement.

Either way - the big man's actions were still the wrong way to deal with it.

I didn't neglect to point out anything - I did however provide two links that mention it clearly from the start. If I wanted to avoid mentioning something/someone seeing something, I'd waffle, dodge a topic and try going down a different route of argument - without any links.
Please don't say I purposely neglected something. It wrongly insinuates that I'm purposely trying to hide something. I'm not.

The "Big Man" as with anyone - besides this one incident - should be answerable for one actions. (No argument there.)
According to ongoing investigations this in this instant, is the case and rightly so. If only to see that what was done was within legal confines and thus if need be, the law needs to be clearer and/or strengthened for future reference.

Again its a matter for debate - even IF the younger man was sold a wrong ticket, I'm sure you might agree that if from the start the young mans behaviours/words/attitude was better, this whole mess wouldn't have happened.
Anything and everything that happened consequently to his behaviour, he brought about by his own efforts - at least thats how I see it.

opinion guy

Biggins wrote: »

Again its a matter for debate - even IF the younger man was sold a wrong ticket, I'm sure you might agree that if from the start the young mans behaviours/words/attitude was better, this whole mess wouldn't have happened.

This is it you see. I don't agree that cursing a bit or having a bad attitude is grounds for violence.

Now if he did try to trip him thats different - that would be assault and the rules are different - but even in that case it should be instant call to the cops.

Biggins

opinion guy wrote: »

This is it you see. I don't agree that cursing a bit or having a bad attitude is grounds for violence.

Now if he did try to trip him thats different - that would be assault and the rules are different - but even in that case it should be instant call to the cops.

Well the case - if any happens - will boil down to if the "Big Man" was justified in aiding the ticket collector - and if a jury decides he was, the consequences of that 'aiding' will have to be decided if they came about due to the younger mans reaction/brawling to get back on.

We will just have to wait and see.

Myself, I doubt any case (if any) found against the "Big Man" (A Mr Pollock) will eventaully end with a "guilty" verdict.
He's been advised to stay silent till investigations are over and a decision has been made.
After that, I assume then we also hear his version of events and why he felt motivated to come to the aid of the elderly ticket collector.
Judging by what we know now, is that also in the company CCTV footage there is something there that the paper readers yet are not mostly aware of - i.e. the attempted tripping of the ticket collector - something the "big man" might have been more aware of.

sock puppet

Lol can't believe this is going any further. The 3 people acted like utter ****. An apology is really all that's needed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101

Police have charged a man with assault after an alleged fare-dodger was removed from a train by a passenger

investment

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101

I was talking to someone involved in the case and they said that it will only be a show trial

Biggins

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101

investment wrote: »

I was talking to someone involved in the case and they said that it will only be a show trial

They have to show at least that the proper procedures have been observed to be done.
Would anyone expect anything less?
I'd be extremely surprised if he's found guilty of assault. Details for a jury will come out in a trail, if it even gets that far.
Two seperate video footage swaying a jury possibly against a possible 19 year old thug will help the "Big Mans" case.

prinz

Biggins wrote: »

They have to show at least that the proper procedures have been observed to be done.
Would anyone expect anything less?
I'd be extremely surprised if he's found guilty of assault. Details for a jury will come out in a trail, if it even gets that far...

+1, I'd imagine a similar outcome to this case..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-15680290

yoyo

I'm suprised at the hostility towards the young lad being shown in this thread. I can tell you that the days I had exams the last thing on my mind would be something trivial like making sure the ticket office man did his job properly printing the correct tickets.
The video shown is only part of the arguement, and surely the young lad would get annoyed with the ticket inspector if he wouldn't listen to the lads reasoning for having the "wrong ticket". We don't know how the young lad acted at the start, I doubt he was f-ing and blinding at the conductor at the start of it all.
The main person to blame here is the conductor, I really doubt its procedure to announce to the whole carriage that a person is holding up the train and "we'll wait all night" unless he moves off. This obviously doesn't help the situation, as in this case a passenger assaulted someone.
I don't blame the passenger here, but I think that he did assult someone and should be punished for that. The main blame should be focussed on the conductor though, who caused this incident through lack of professionalism, unless in Scotland it is normal for the conductor to allow members of the public drag people off the train, which I very much doubt

Nick

opinion guy

yoyo wrote: »

The main person to blame here is the conductor, I really doubt its procedure to announce to the whole carriage that a person is holding up the train and "we'll wait all night" unless he moves off.

This x 1000

Biggins

yoyo wrote: »

...I don't blame the passenger here, but I think that he did assult someone and should be punished for that. The main blame should be focussed on the conductor though, who caused this incident through lack of professionalism, unless in Scotland it is normal for the conductor to allow members of the public drag people off the train, which I very much doubt

Nick

Absolute cobblers.

1. If the man had bothered to check his ticket - even before he got on the train - he would have been all right.
2. If he hadn't been so rude - he would have been all right.
3. If he hadn't have been so disruptive to those around him he might have been all right!
4. Now as it appears, if he hadn't tried to even trip up the conductor even before the incident that got him thrown off, he would have been all right.
5. Had he not fought at the platform he would have been all right!

Instead what he was was an arrogant fcuking asshole who thought HE was a big smart-arse man that could go around trying to trip (elderly!) people, abusing them, abusing a ticket collector who was just doing his job - a job by the way he managed to do perfectly fine for everyone else on the train that night, well till he was met by that young prick!

The piece of crap deserves everything he got - and if Mr Pollock is fined - I'll bloody contribute FOR SURE to his fine!