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i will not be paying the property tax

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    #92
    Funfair
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Funfair


    I don't mind paying if everyone is paying, but for me to many waivers going around...

    Everyone should pay, Old, young, employed, Unemployed, renting or otherwise not just people that are working.

    I also don't believe in giving the money to local councils as all they'll do is hire more gob****es to go with the other 75% of workers they all ready employ. Instead of having 2 men leaning on a shovel they'll have 4 now looking into the pot hole etc..

    They get enough from rates and car parks, fines etc for the little work they do..


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    #93
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Funfair wrote: »
    Everyone should pay, Old, young, employed, Unemployed, renting or otherwise not just people that are working.

    If renters are paying then its not a property tax, its a poll tax. Landlords will probably try pass it on (and largely fail in the short term given the state of the market). Better local services increase the rent that landlords can charge, so that's how the landlord ultimately benefits and renters ultimately pay.

    I agree though that young/old, employed/unemployed etc should all pay, with the caveat that if they don't have the cash to hand that it can accumulate until the house is sold.

    What is proposed is a 'site value tax'. The biggest group that will get an exemption will be farmers.


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    #94
    Santan
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭Santan


    was speaking to some tourists today and get this
    germany has a rain tax, the bigger your garden the more rain you soak up, the more you pay.
    Holland has a curtain tax, the more light let in to your home the more window space you have the more tax you pay.
    Spain has a roof tax, the larger your roofed area is on the house or patio, the more sunlight your taking up from the ground, and hence the more tax you pay.
    have to say the Dutch one has me stumped, but at least Ireland is not the only place for mad taxes.


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    #95
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Santan wrote: »
    was speaking to some tourists today and get this
    germany has a rain tax, the bigger your garden the more rain you soak up, the more you pay.
    Holland has a curtain tax, the more light let in to your home the more window space you have the more tax you pay.
    Spain has a roof tax, the larger your roofed area is on the house or patio, the more sunlight your taking up from the ground, and hence the more tax you pay.
    have to say the Dutch one has me stumped, but at least Ireland is not the only place for mad taxes.


    The Dutch one probably has you stumped because its not true.


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    #96
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    dayshah wrote: »
    The Dutch one probably has you stumped because its not true.

    Ahh don't be a spoilsport it sounds great,


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    #97
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    According to the nine o clock news tonight, 4500, have paid to date.
    Reminds me of school days this thread, coming up to the exams nobody was purportedly swotting , and three quarters of the fcukers get A's.
    Nobody going to pay my sack!


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    #98
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    I'm sure the majority of people would be happy to pay this if there was any sort of hope of the tax going in the right place. Not a hope. This will rise and rise and it will never be seen going anywhere other than into some fat cat's pocket.


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    #99
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    According to the nine o clock news tonight, 4500, have paid to date.
    Reminds me of school days this thread, coming up to the exams nobody was purportedly swotting , and three quarters of the fcukers get A's.
    Nobody going to pay my sack!

    lol, so true


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    #100
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    Ahh don't be a spoilsport it sounds great,

    Sorry :(

    The rain tax is also inaccurately described. It's a tax on impermeable surfaces, as the run off causes flooding (as happened in Dublin) so it actually is logical, if taking things a bit too far.

    http://www.rainwaterharvesting.org/policy/legislation_international.htm


    The Spanish roof tax just sounds like a way of measuring the surface area of a building.


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    #101
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    An attenuation tax,,,,, has a certain ring to it!


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    #102
    Vettriano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭Vettriano


    There are certain exclusions that mean you don't have to pay.
    1. If it's a council house...
    2. If you don't own the house, ie renting the house.
    3. Government or HSE owned.

    If you have a mortgage on the house you don't own the house till the last payment as mentioned on page 2 by Tankbarry.

    I will not be paying as I technically don't own my house, the bank does.
    Also this tax is a retrospective tax after I bought and signed any agreement. (Didn't the bankers still get their bonus as the bonus for that year was agreed before the new cap on bonus and pay came in).
    I think if you were to buy a house now it would be fair as you can factor it into your budget.
    People that are already tied into binding agreements should be excluded.
    Another example is the car tax being scaled on emissions, but again only from 2008 cars, you can't retrospectivly change the law to an existing agreement.
    It's like your employer lowering your pay after you sign your contract !!!

    I doubt this property tax is legal and in any case the owner (bank) owes it.


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    #103
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    Vettriano wrote: »
    There are certain exclusions that mean you don't have to pay.
    1. If it's a council house...
    2. If you don't own the house, ie renting the house.
    3. Government or HSE owned.

    If you have a mortgage on the house you don't own the house till the last payment as mentioned on page 2 by Tankbarry.

    I will not be paying as I technically don't own my house, the bank does.
    Also this tax is a retrospective tax after I bought and signed any agreement. (Didn't the bankers still get their bonus as the bonus for that year was agreed before the new cap on bonus and pay came in).
    I think if you were to buy a house now it would be fair as you can factor it into your budget.
    People that are already tied into binding agreements should be excluded.
    Another example is the car tax being scaled on emissions, but again only from 2008 cars, you can't retrospectivly change the law to an existing agreement.
    It's like your employer lowering your pay after you sign your contract !!!

    I doubt this property tax is legal and in any case the owner (bank) owes it.[/QUOTE

    I bet you a hundred euro ya will


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    #104
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    If you have a mortgage on the house you don't own the house till the last payment as mentioned on page 2 by Tankbarry.

    unfortunately you do own the house... the bank does not own it.
    u bought the house, it was legally signed over to you. the bank just gave u money and in return you agreed to use your house as collateral for the loan.


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    #105
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    There are certain exclusions that mean you don't have to pay.
    1. If it's a council house...
    2. If you don't own the house, ie renting the house.
    3. Government or HSE owned.

    This is not on, you could have a council house and have a good wage coming in, you'd be paying the top rent to the council, but still be doing well.

    If you have a mortgage on a house, you could be getting JSA and still have to pay it.


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    #106
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    Who is going to make up the shortfall for the people exempted from paying the charge?


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    #107
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    robtri wrote: »
    unfortunately you do own the house... the bank does not own it.
    u bought the house, it was legally signed over to you. the bank just gave u money and in return you agreed to use your house as collateral for the loan.

    +1

    I find it staggering the amount of people who seem to think they've bought their house on hire purchase.


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    #108
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    Wealth? Who do you know that is wealthy anymore? I certainly am not wealthy. I earn enough to just about get by, as I'm sure a lot of people just about do too.
    wmpdd3 wrote: »
    This is not on, you could have a council house and have a good wage coming in, you'd be paying the top rent to the council, but still be doing well.

    If you have a mortgage on a house, you could be getting JSA and still have to pay it.


    Income and wealth are two totally different things.


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    #109
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    dayshah wrote: »
    Income and wealth are two totally different things.

    Yes I know that, that's exactly the point I was making.


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    #110
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    Yes I know that, that's exactly the point I was making.

    But this is closer to a wealth tax. I can't see how that's less fair than an income tax.

    Suppose someone such as Lord Waterford had a small income, but huge property holdings. Shouldn't such a person pay more?

    If someone doesn't have the cash to hand the tax can easily be rolled over until they do.


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    #111
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    dayshah wrote: »
    But this is closer to a wealth tax. I can't see how that's less fair than an income tax.

    Suppose someone such as Lord Waterford had a small income, but huge property holdings. Shouldn't such a person pay more?

    If someone doesn't have the cash to hand the tax can easily be rolled over until they do.

    It's not closer to a wealth tax, if it was closer to a wealth tax then someone like Lord Waterford should pay more.


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    #112
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    It's not closer to a wealth tax, if it was closer to a wealth tax then someone like Lord Waterford should pay more.

    OK, are you objecting to the €100 flat rate or the property tax?

    I agree the €100 flat rate is unfair, and closer to a poll tax. But from next year Lord Waterford will (most likely, the tax has to be finalised) pay more.


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    #113
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    dayshah wrote: »
    OK, are you objecting to the €100 flat rate or the property tax?

    I agree the €100 flat rate is unfair, and closer to a poll tax. But from next year Lord Waterford will (most likely, the tax has to be finalised) pay more.

    Well how about they tax the people that can afford it then? They know everything about our finances so they should know that the majority of us cannot afford this charge. How about they take money from people that are still pissing it up against a wall?


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    #114
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    Well how about they tax the people that can afford it then? They know everything about our finances so they should know that the majority of us cannot afford this charge. How about they take money from people that are still pissing it up against a wall?

    By afford do you mean low income? As I said, if someone doesn't have the cash to pay they will be able to defer the payment until they decide to sell the house.

    That way some developer on Shrewsburry Road who is drawing the dole but living in a €10 million house will have to pay.


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    #115
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    dayshah wrote: »
    By afford do you mean low income? As I said, if someone doesn't have the cash to pay they will be able to defer the payment until they decide to sell the house.

    That way some developer on Shrewsburry Road who is drawing the dole but living in a €10 million house will have to pay.

    How is selling your house a solution? If you sell your house, you still need somewhere to live, therefore you're still paying a lot of money to someone, therefore still not a lot of money. If you end up renting the majority of the landlords in the country will pass this charge onto you through rent anyway so you end up paying it anyway.

    Also, I know you were just using that as an example but can someone who owns a €10 million house actually draw the dole? Seriously?


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    #116
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    How is selling your house a solution? If you sell your house, you still need somewhere to live, therefore you're still paying a lot of money to someone, therefore still not a lot of money. If you end up renting the majority of the landlords in the country will pass this charge onto you through rent anyway so you end up paying it anyway.

    Also, I know you were just using that as an example but can someone who owns a €10 million house actually draw the dole? Seriously?

    I'm not suggesting someone sells the house just to pay the tax. Most people move house at least once in their lives. Suppose the tax was €500, and someone was on the dole for 20 years (another extreme example). Then the tax would only accumulate to €10,000. Let's say €20,000 due to interest. Then when they move house in 2032 they would have the cash to pay it.

    I gave an extreme example, but there are some self employed people who have a very low income due to the recession, but are still a lot wealthier than most.

    As another example, suppose one person studies (hard) for 6 years subsisting on a very low income, and after graduating earns €50,000 a year. Meanwhile someone who didn't study worked (hard) those 6 years earning €35,000 a year, and yesterday bought a house with the money they had saved. The graduate has to spend money on rent, had a tiny income for 6 years, and the non-graduate doesn't (and bought the house with cash).

    I think its fair that now the student should pay higher income tax, but some allowance should be made that they are not as wealthy as the non-graduate. I think a wealth tax is a fair way to do this, and a property tax is one way of doing this.

    I'd rather have a tax that covers all wealth, but until that happens I think a property tax is a good idea (even if we had no crisis).

    No tax system will ever be perfect.


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    #117
    chelloveks
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭chelloveks


    France has a tosser tax....scantily clad ladies go door to door collecting from any wanker who needs a toss!


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    #118
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    i dont think its a bad idea as we need a more stable tax system. However, i dont see those implementing it taking a hit like the rest of us on our wages, tax etc. As far as im concerned, politicans should take a 50% cut, expenses cut 50%, one pension only to be received when you hit 65 like all the rest of us, no pay for any councillors, get rid of town councils, cut the quangos meaningfully. etc.

    If we saw real cuts on those in charge, people will do their bit


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    #119
    Nypd
    Registered Users Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Nypd


    Max Powers wrote: »
    i dont think its a bad idea as we need a more stable tax system. However, i dont see those implementing it taking a hit like the rest of us on our wages, tax etc. As far as im concerned, politicans should take a 50% cut, expenses cut 50%, one pension only to be received when you hit 65 like all the rest of us, no pay for any councillors, get rid of town councils, cut the quangos meaningfully. etc.

    If we saw real cuts on those in charge, people will do their bit

    You are spot on here, we all know full well that extra taxes are being pissed away by the idiots in power.
    We are all suffering due to cuts and hikes but one has to wonder how much if any all this effects the privalaged few.

    Means testing holders allowance surely would have raised far more.


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    #120
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    mikom wrote: »
    Now show me the timeline of 1 year as I have shown in mine.



    Great job at moving the goalposts




    2 years.
    You won't be much good to me in court if you haven't a concept of time.

    My point still stands though. I really don't think you were suggesting that you would pay in a years time. You want to ride it out and suggested a €30 fine would be the end of it - iv shown it will keep on increasing and you may be taken to court. You said a year in your post, but the tone of it (at least to me anyway) suggested and could be read that's all you would get.

    Why ride it out and pay a little more? Whats the advantage?


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    #121
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    mickob16 wrote: »
    How can anyone be expected to pay this if some of our politicians refuse to do so?

    The few opposition TDs who refuse to pay it out of protest?
    I wouldn't mind paying up to €200 per year but if its a charge that's going to remain and increase yearly then surely people have a right to object and refuse to pay.

    Its going to be completely different soon, basing it on the value of your house so it could be more expensive.

    I don't fully see the point in taxing someones home. You pay taxes for local authority as it is and you probably paid some form of tax when purchasing the house in the first place. I just fail to understand the concept, bar a money grabbing exercise, of charging someone a fee for having a house?


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