i will not be paying the property tax

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

I don't fully see the point in taxing someones home. You pay taxes for local authority as it is and you probably paid some form of tax when purchasing the house in the first place. I just fail to understand the concept, bar a money grabbing exercise, of charging someone a fee for having a house?

What's the point in any tax? What's the point in income tax or VAT? Almost all taxes are purely to raise cash, and only a few are to dissuade smoking and so on.

Local services increase the value of a house. If the city council put up a load of flowers and clean litter away this will increase the value of a home, so it makes sense that the beneficiaries make a contribution.

I see no reason how taxes on income are in anyway more fair than a tax on wealth. This is an imperfect wealth tax, but at least its a start.

Sully

dayshah wrote: »

What's the point in any tax? What's the point in income tax or VAT? Almost all taxes are purely to raise cash, and only a few are to dissuade smoking and so on.

Local services increase the value of a house. If the city council put up a load of flowers and clean litter away this will increase the value of a home, so it makes sense that the beneficiaries make a contribution.

I see no reason how taxes on income are in anyway more fair than a tax on wealth. This is an imperfect wealth tax, but at least its a start.

[/quote]

I'm not sure about others, but I wouldn't think our tax has been well spent by local government who rely on private businesses to sponsors roundabouts and flower areas. We even have beach cleaners funded by a private business. A lot of our roads are a disgrace - full of potholes etc.

I just don't feel comfortable with the idea that we are being asked to pay even more tax for local government, through a tax on owning our house, when we pay a load and don't get a huge amount in return.

dayshah

I'm not sure about others, but I wouldn't think our tax has been well spent by local government who rely on private businesses to sponsors roundabouts and flower areas. We even have beach cleaners funded by a private business. A lot of our roads are a disgrace - full of potholes etc.

I just don't feel comfortable with the idea that we are being asked to pay even more tax for local government, through a tax on owning our house, when we pay a load and don't get a huge amount in return.

That just sounds like underfunding to me.

I think over the past 3/4 years the city council has been doing a great job, with Waterford Crystal, Viking Quarter, flood barrier on the quay and so on. I want the council to have the power to set the rate for the local area. Let's see what Phil Hogan has in mind.

People want European levels of public service and US levels of taxation. They can keep on wanting, because its never going to happen.

Nolanger

If those left-wing lunatics in the Dáil are not paying then I am!

Bards

Unless I get an invoice I won't be paying, and anyone who pays a bill without first receiving an invoice is a fool

dayshah

Bards wrote: »

Unless I get an invoice I won't be paying, and anyone who pays a bill without first receiving an invoice is a fool

Its not a bill, its a tax.

Hoffmans

how can you be fined ect. if you dont wish to register to help greek shipping tycoons pay for their lavish yachts, dutch and german pension funds pay nice returns to their policy holders, hedgefund managers enjoy the unexpectded spoils of failed gambles on insolvent bank bonds...

if your tricked / pressured into registering for this crap then your in for the long haul and hikes for the next 10 yrs of austerity to help pay for the above ........

i certainly wont be participating in this latest tax scam a home is not a luxury, .........

Bards

dayshah wrote: »

Its not a bill, its a tax.

So is road tax, but you get still get a letter through the door with your details on and how much you owe etc.

danjo-xx

Probably all ready discussed but why should people who's sole income is from welfare have to pay this.

Example: A single person living alone and only has €188 per week has to cough up.

I thought welfare rates were the bottom line to keep someone just at the poverty level and then they keep hacking away with these kinds of taxes.

while the likes of David Drum and Fingers Fingleton and **** like that only have to pay the same after bankrupting our country for the next 10yrs or more and not a single sole being charged or locked up.

Steal a loaf of bread or a few sweets and we'll quickly be shifted. :mad:

dayshah

danjo-xx wrote: »

Probably all ready discussed but why should people who's sole income is from welfare have to pay this.

Example: A single person living alone and only has €188 per week has to cough up.

I thought welfare rates were the bottom line to keep someone just at the poverty level and then they keep hacking away with these kinds of taxes.

while the likes of David Drum and Fingers Fingleton and **** like that only have to pay the same after bankrupting our country for the next 10yrs or more and not a single sole being charged or locked up.

Steal a loaf of bread or a few sweets and we'll quickly be shifted. :mad:

It's a property tax, not an income tax.
Why should someone working hard on the minimum wage and forking out for rent, and with no assets to their name, have to pay hundreds in tax but someone on the dole in a nice big house and maybe no mortgage pay zilch? I that fair?

Most likely, if peope don't have the cash to hand there will be a deferral scheme.

dayshah

Bards wrote: »

dayshah wrote: »

Its not a bill, its a tax.

So is road tax, but you get still get a letter through the door with your details on and how much you owe etc.

I hope you try it, i really do.

That way you'll get a nice juicy fine which will raise more cash for roads and schools. Do you really dthink you are smarter than revenue?

About the only way to avoid this is to sell up and pitch a tent on the quay.

daenerysstormborn3

It has been confirmed today that the new household charge becomes a charge on the title if it remains unpaid after the payment date ie the 31st of March.

sonic85

pixiebean22 wrote: »

It has been confirmed today that the new household charge becomes a charge on the title if it remains unpaid after the payment date ie the 31st of March.

link?

daenerysstormborn3

No link. I got the information through my job.

sonic85

pixiebean22 wrote: »

No link. I got the information through my job.

ah right - but its accurate yeah? its looking like ill have to pay!

insight_man

Campaign Against Household and Water Charges Meeting

Monday 16th Jan 2012

Waterford City

Local Area:
The Waterford campaign is taking to the streets on Saturday next at 2.00pm in John Roberts Square. Activists will give out information to the public and ask people to join the campaign by registering and paying a €5.00 fee/contribution.
This fee will be used to provide a legal defence to any member, if they are brought to court for non payment of this odious, unfair tax on the family home. It will also help fund the ongoing campaign until this repressive tax is withdrawn by the government.
A picket of support will be held outside the City Council meeting on Monday 13th February where a motion calling on city councillors to support the campaign and oppose any court actions that may be taken by the city manager against householders who refuse to pay.
Members of the public are asked to come along in large numbers to join the picket and give their support to the campaign. Meet at City Hall at 4.00PM.
The door to door recruitment campaign will start next Monday night when householders will be asked to sign up to membership and pay the fee of just €5.00.
Campaign members will be easily identified as they will be wearing Hi Visibility vests with the campaign logo’s very visible front and back on the vests.
National:
A report from the National Co-Ordination Meeting held in Dublin on Saturday was given to the meeting including the key decisions taken at the meeting as outlined below:

Key Decisions:
· National Membership drive against the household tax launched. People can join the campaign by paying a membership fee of just €5. This money will help fund the ongoing campaign.
· Any member taken to court will be defended by the campaign’s legal team.
· An information hotline 1890 98 98 00 has be set up to give support and advice to everyone.
· The campaign to include opposition to the Septic Tank charge in rural areas and to organise on a rural and urban basis.
· The membership drive to include activists going door to door asking householders to join the campaign under the slogan Don’t Register – Don’t Pay.

insight_man

pixiebean22 wrote: »

It has been confirmed today that the new household charge becomes a charge on the title if it remains unpaid after the payment date ie the 31st of March.

Not an automatic charge. It may become one but it would take a court case to order it. This is by no means certain to happen. If it ever did happen the charge can only be for a period of 12 years, it's not forever so no need for anyone to get too hung up about it. Only has an effect if the house was to be sold or the likes of that within 12 years.

Don't Register - Don't Pay is the cleanest and easiest way to defeat this tax.

Sully

insight_man wrote: »

Don't Register - Don't Pay is the cleanest and easiest way to defeat this tax.

They tried this approach with the bin charges.

IIRC, we pay for our bin charges and in many cases its privately operated.

mikom

insight_man wrote: »

Not an automatic charge. It may become one but it would take a court case to order it. This is by no means certain to happen. If it ever did happen the charge can only be for a period of 12 years, it's not forever so no need for anyone to get too hung up about it. Only has an effect if the house was to be sold or the likes of that within 12 years.

Interesting....
Any source on this 12 year limit insight_man?

insight_man

mikom wrote: »

Interesting....
Any source on this 12 year limit insight_man?

Legal advice to the campaign. Be a lot more of that coming as the legal team gets into full swing. The government will throw endless amounts of money into frightening people with threats and all these will need to be met head on and answered.

mikom

insight_man wrote: »

Legal advice to the campaign. Be a lot more of that coming as the legal team gets into full swing. The government will throw endless amounts of money into frightening people with threats and all these will need to be met head on and answered.

Grand.
A fiver on the way to the campaign from me so if this is the sort of the stuff they can reveal.

Sully

insight_man wrote: »

Legal advice to the campaign. Be a lot more of that coming as the legal team gets into full swing. The government will throw endless amounts of money into frightening people with threats and all these will need to be met head on and answered.

Was it yourselves who are giving out the "legal advise" saying that payment is optional because the charge is a statute?

insight_man

Sully wrote: »

They tried this approach with the bin charges.

IIRC, we pay for our bin charges and in many cases its privately operated.

Not sure if that exact approach was used but maybe. There is a lot more at stake now, big cutbacks, angry people and people who cant pay plus those who wont pay. One thing for sure its the first chance people have had to keep money in their pocket rather than register and pay what is is just the tip of a very very big iceberg of charges coming down the tracks over the next few years.

insight_man

Sully wrote: »

Was it yourselves who are giving out the "legal advise" saying that payment is optional because the charge is a statute?

Dont know anything about that advise saying payment is optional. Not me anyway!

Slksht

mikom wrote: »

Grand.
A fiver on the way to the campaign from me so if this is the sort of the stuff they can reveal.

And me!! I have no doubt that the governement are stepping on very fragile ground here legally. If people don't register, then the whole shebang collapses.

Does our government with all of its massive debt and cutbacks have the manpower and resources needed to track down and bring to court 900,000 people (this is assuming they get anywhere near 900,000 people to sign up in the first place)? I highly doubt it.

Don't remember that about the bins Sully but this is a different ball game in any case! If the CPWP campaign can get serious legal representatives then the people of this country have a real shot at beating this lark before it can get started.

mikom

This whole "having to register" situation is very fishy I'll admit.

insight_man

mikom wrote: »

Grand.
A fiver on the way to the campaign from me so if this is the sort of the stuff they can reveal.

Good man mikom! spread the word. Saturday at 2.00pm in John Roberts Square starts the membership drive. After that the door to door campaign gets going. You get your own unique number, a receipt and you're in. Best fiver ever spent just for the fight alone.

Sully

Will the campaign team be paid anything for all their hard work?

Slksht

dayshah wrote: »

I hope you try it, i really do.

That way you'll get a nice juicy fine which will raise more cash for roads and schools. Do you really dthink you are smarter than revenue?

About the only way to avoid this is to sell up and pitch a tent on the quay.

Jesus man you are delusional! You will willingly (or already have) sign up to pay money? Why, because of the threat of a fine? You do not need to be smarter than the revenue, if you do not sign up you do not pay. if enough people have the sense to not willingly pay it then do you honestly for one minute think that the government will fine eveyr person who hasn't paid? Numbers in the hundreds of thousands?

Even if they manage to send out fines, what will do if everyone just refuses to pay the fines? bring everybody to court, the same coursts that are already creeking under the pressure of a lack of resources.

It will only be through the short-sightedness of people such as yourself spreading scare tactics that this tax will succeed in robbing the people of this country.

insight_man

mikom wrote: »

This whole "having to register" situation is very fishy I'll admit.

The having to register requirement is simple enough when you realise what the reason behind it is. Basically the government do not have the details of all households ie: adresses, size of house, number of rooms etc. This is needed for the initial tax, but will also be the basis for ongoing property taxes and whatever else can be dreamed up. Without voluntary registration the state hasn't the resources, time or any quick fix to the problem.

Registration is far more sinister than it appears. It also applies to rural dwellings with septic tanks. The register is needed to know all the locations AND get permission to enter private property for the purposes of inspection. Country people are very reluctant to let G men onto their land so the campaign is flying in rural areas. Sorry about the long post! Hope its useful.