i will not be paying the property tax

JPA

sandin wrote: »

When the rubbish from the weekend nights isn't cleaned up, when the public parks are overgrown, when the footpaths are no longer safe, when the street lighting is turned off, when the school warden is let go, when the fresh clean water stops running, when the recycling centres are closed, when fly tipping is not cleared up, when pollution is rife in our rivers and streams, will those who are not paying, pay then?

This is a local servcies tax, its needed. Businesses can't pay any more or even more will go bust and more jobs will be lost.

We all gain from local servcies, the day of the free ride is over.

BTW, EVERYONE should pay, there should be no waivers whatsoever. Discount schemes instead so that everyone finally appreciates what has been provided for free for years.

ps - in the UK I had to pay £2642 2 years a go! on top of a far higher basic rate of tax and on a smaller salary!

The problem is nobody believes that spiel about local services, it's simply viewed as another way to pay off the IMF.

abouttobebanned

sandin wrote: »

When the rubbish from the weekend nights isn't cleaned up, when the public parks are overgrown, when the footpaths are no longer safe, when the street lighting is turned off, when the school warden is let go, when the fresh clean water stops running, when the recycling centres are closed, when fly tipping is not cleared up, when pollution is rife in our rivers and streams, will those who are not paying, pay then?

This is a local servcies tax, its needed. Businesses can't pay any more or even more will go bust and more jobs will be lost.

We all gain from local servcies, the day of the free ride is over.

BTW, EVERYONE should pay, there should be no waivers whatsoever. Discount schemes instead so that everyone finally appreciates what has been provided for free for years.

ps - in the UK I had to pay £2642 2 years a go! on top of a far higher basic rate of tax and on a smaller salary!

Did you also pay a massive stamp duty when you bought your home? And also pay for your own rubbish collection etc?

wellboytoo

Tenner says ye will all be paying it this time next year with not a whimper!:D

junglejim1

Did you also pay a massive stamp duty when you bought your home?

Actually stamp duty rates are higher in the UK.

And also pay for your own rubbish collection etc?

Rubbish collection is paid for through council tax, currently we pay £210 a month.

Don't get me started on water rates!

samina

abouttobebanned wrote: »

sandin wrote: »

When the rubbish from the weekend nights isn't cleaned up, when the public parks are overgrown, when the footpaths are no longer safe, when the street lighting is turned off, when the school warden is let go, when the fresh clean water stops running, when the recycling centres are closed, when fly tipping is not cleared up, when pollution is rife in our rivers and streams, will those who are not paying, pay then?

This is a local servcies tax, its needed. Businesses can't pay any more or even more will go bust and more jobs will be lost.

We all gain from local servcies, the day of the free ride is over.

BTW, EVERYONE should pay, there should be no waivers whatsoever. Discount schemes instead so that everyone finally appreciates what has been provided for free for years.

ps - in the UK I had to pay £2642 2 years a go! on top of a far higher basic rate of tax and on a smaller salary!

Did you also pay a massive stamp duty when you bought your home? And also pay for your own rubbish collection etc?

Or healthcare, education or even plastic bags

oliv84

I wont be paying this either a pack of b@stards is all that government is

sandin

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Did you also pay a massive stamp duty when you bought your home? And also pay for your own rubbish collection etc?

Yes, paid stamp duty on the house. Also paid over £400 in water charges. Didn't pay for refuse though.

Don't forget, there weren't a huge number of people who paid massive amounts of duty on houses here. Primarily investors and those trading up. When the real property tax comes in, there should be a discount to reflect this.

Most first time buyers didn't pay any stamp duty and on top of that have had very generous government support through tax relief on mortgages.

sandin

JPA wrote: »

The problem is nobody believes that spiel about local services, it's simply viewed as another way to pay off the IMF.

Legally the money is ringfenced for local services.

Business just can't be expected to pay for all these servcies - it was always unfair way of collecting. I looked at opening a business in Carlow a while ago. The rent was €24,000 which was reasonable, but rates and water charges were over €10,000 a year.

I declined and have decided to stay in my current employment. - It would have created 2 full time jobs, but the rates killed the project at stage one.

One good thing about people paying rates / services charge is finally many will wake up to the wastage in councils and hopefully their voting in local elections will reflect that. (35 councils in a country the size of Ireland is a joke!)

Darren1922

The fact is that just because the Government make a new Law(or tax) that does not mean it is fair or just. And in this case it deff is neither! I fully support anybody who doesen't pay this tax.(not that my support will get you past the Mountain of cowards who do pay it)

No Country in the history of this Planet has ever taxed itself out of a recession. Enda Kenny is a Gob****e, and his Government are pure useless and expect everybody else to pick up the pieces of this Country which they themselves have scattered. Don't pay the damn thing, simple as.

Dum_Dum

The mistake the government made was paying Wall Street/City of London out of the local government fund whereas they should have taken it from orphanages/dying cancer patients/sick children. That way the household charge could be re-branded the Help the Dying Children Charge. Now who would march against that?

Professey Chin

Nice to see Coffey being smooth as sandpaper :rolleyes:
https://twitter.com/#!/paudiecoffey/status/185989857414356992

Hoffmans

so it looks like a million or so of us have ignored this charge in protest @ the austerity programme being imposed on everyone but more importantly the less well off, and fair play to you one and all !
the 12w section of the locality can give all they want to the imf / trioca but please dont go preaching to the less well off that they should too....... :pac:

Sully

Who knows for sure what the real figure is anyway, in terms of houses in the country that should pay. If the figures were to be believed, the country was split. But id say a lot of people will continue to pay in the next few weeks and suck up the small penalty.

Bards

Sully wrote: »

Who knows for sure what the real figure is anyway, in terms of houses in the country that should pay. If the figures were to be believed, the country was split. But id say a lot of people will continue to pay in the next few weeks and suck up the small penalty.

I reckon govt could loose the referendum at the end of may, which could bring down the government. If that happens you can kiss goodbye to the household charge

200motels

The referendum will be a close call, and we're voting on governments living beyond their means to get there house in order, well that's a lie, the reason we went tits up was the fault of banks, we were taking in more than we could spend, but all the tax that came from the property boom was borrowed money. As for the household charge I won't pay because I can't pay. It's supposed to be for local services, well here on the Dunmore road we don't have much local services, no playground for children, nowhere for young teens to go to, or do, we all pay for our bins, we all pay for our estates to be maintained and cleaned, the money will go to line the pockets of local councillors. Another point who gave planning permission on the local council for the retail park out on the six cross road. It smells fishy to me.

Am Chile

Even if the numbers being spun are true, Despite all the threats and fearmongering from the goverment more then 50% haven,t paid, well done to all those who stood their ground despite all the threats and refused to pay.

There’s been a fair bit of commentary on twitter re. the household charge numbers and speculating in the media. Having just watched RTE1 News at 6pm it seems incredible to me that the Local Government Management Agency seems to have little idea as to how many housing units are liable for the household charge. It seems even more odd that number seems to be floating between 1.6m and 1.8m. There seems to be a conflation between households (1.654m according to Census 2011) and housing stock minus exemptions/waivers (1.755m based on calculation below, probably 1.72m +/- 20k with the other minor exemptions taken out). It is housing stock that is the base for the household charge (a vacant house is just as liable as an occupied house – this is a tax on property not occupancy). Namawinelake has a post up about who is and isn’t eligible. Working off the data contained in his post (I’ve updated a couple of his figures to Census 2011 data and added a couple, but otherwise I’m quoting his figures and sources) we come up with the following. I]On request, I have updated this post to match the data to the exemptions and waivers exactly as set out on the [URL="https://www.householdcharge.ie/"][COLOR=#0000ff]householdcharge.ie[/COLOR][/URL] website - 21.15pm, Apr 1st[/I
What is eligible:
All housing units in the state, with seven exemptions and two waivers
Housing units in the state according to Census 2011: 1,994,845
What is exempt:
(1) Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction
18,638 unoccupied vacant housing units in unfinished estates the vast majority of which are unsold (under-construction were not counted in Census), plus small amount of unsold one-offs
(2) Residential property vested in a Minister of the Government or the Health Service Executive
Not known but small, ask govt depts and HSE
(3) Residential property vested in a housing authority, including property where households are purchasing their homes under the Shared Ownership Scheme and where the local authority still retains an ownership stake,
129,033 (renting social housing, Census 2011, Table 39), DECLG should have exact figure
23,547 (being bought from LAs, Census 2006 – I can’t find in Census 2011), DECLG should have exact figure
(4) Voluntary and co-operative housing,
14,942 (renting voluntary housing, Census 2011, Table 39)
(5) Residential property subject to commercial rates and wholly used as a dwelling,
Not known but small, ask local authorities (there was a question on the Census, Table 38, but the class also includes apts in converted houses – total was 27,666 so know it was less than that – could ask CSO if it could disaggregate; )
(6) Residential property owned by certain charities or comprised in a discretionary trust, and
Not known but small
(7) Residential property where a person has to leave their house due to long-term mental or physical infirmity (e.g. a person that has moved into a nursing home).
Not known but small, possibly ask HSE. There was a question on the Census. Table 11 shows 28,395 people live in nursing and children’s homes, not all in nursing home will own property, so know less than that; could see if CSO can disaggregate.
What is waivered:
(1) Owners of residential property entitled to mortgage interest supplement
19,000 (mortgage interest relief, Keane Report), Dept Soc Protection should have exact figure
(2) Owners of residential property located in certain prescribed unfinished housing estates
34,000 (category 3/4 unfinished estates, Money Guide Ireland, exact figure can be obtained from the Housing Development Survey undertaken by DECLG)
Houses eligible – a calculation based on above:
1,994,845 (housing units, Census 2011)
-18,638 (unoccupied vacant housing units unsold, Housing Development Survey, DECLG, 2011)
-129,033 (renting social housing, Census 2011, Table 39)
-14,942 (renting voluntary housing, Census 2011, Table 39)
-23,547 (being bought from LAs, Census 2006 – I can’t find in Census 2011)
-19,000 (mortgage interest relief, Keane Report)
-34,000 (category 3/4 unfinished estates, Money Guide Ireland)
= 1,755,685 (this still needs other small amounts of property taken-off namely exemptions 2, 5, 6, 7 – all of these will be very low in number and should not substantially alter this figure, probably 1.72m +/- 20k based on data above) (update Apr 2nd: also see my comment (no. 10 in list below)).
Households paid, minus the 12,500 who have registered but qualify for the waiver
621,717 (already processed)
+89,000 (by post awaiting processing)
+ 82,175 (registered in local authority offices yesterday)
= 792,892
The percentage of those paid, based on those figures = 45.16%

(54.84% left to pay)

http://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/household-charge-numbers/

Sully

Very early days yet. A lot of people may still register, just a bit later than usual and pay the fine. There is no real urgency in paying it with a fine so small.

MitchKoobski

I've had bigger late fines on my library card.

rasper

As a big fella once said

"Would pay a charge if ur unhappy with the service"

So fix ur house first lads then come looking to be paid and stop using the troika as ur exuse , very few swallow this bs
And this is what I will be telling anyone that comes to my door to lie to me about voting yes to ecb , yes to jobs

tiny timy

Just got my letter stating i havent paid and to stop from getting more fines then to pay immediately. Sorry, not happening. I didnt register for anything so i wont be paying for something i didnt register for. Simple.

Bards

If I do get one of these letters than I will pay the €100 with a covering letter saying please find €100 for payment in full.

I don't recognise any late payment fees as I

1.) never received an invoice for the €100
2.) I am allowing this to be the first demand for payment
3.) unless they can provide me with evidence of an original invoice looking for payment of €100 I will ignore any late payment fines.

mecco

Bards wrote: »

If I do get one of these letters than I will pay the €100 with a covering letter saying please find €100 for payment in full.

I don't recognise any late payment fees as I

1.) never received an invoice for the €100
2.) I am allowing this to be the first demand for payment
3.) unless they can provide me with evidence of an original invoice looking for payment of €100 I will ignore any late payment fines.

Considering the political stink this whole thing is for the government, I wouldn't be surprised if a letter like that got a reply along the lines of "that's grand, thanks very much and g'luck"

TheChizler

Bards wrote: »

If I do get one of these letters than I will pay the €100 with a covering letter saying please find €100 for payment in full.

I don't recognise any late payment fees as I

1.) never received an invoice for the €100
2.) I am allowing this to be the first demand for payment
3.) unless they can provide me with evidence of an original invoice looking for payment of €100 I will ignore any late payment fines.

You might be stuck there as it could be considered that knowing that the payment was due was public knowledge. You don't get an invoice for taxes at the end of the year do you? Or motor tax (which you do get a reminder for). Or TV license. Or dog license if you've ever paid one.

Sully

Bards wrote: »

If I do get one of these letters than I will pay the €100 with a covering letter saying please find €100 for payment in full.

I don't recognise any late payment fees as I

1.) never received an invoice for the €100
2.) I am allowing this to be the first demand for payment
3.) unless they can provide me with evidence of an original invoice looking for payment of €100 I will ignore any late payment fines.

Your not required, legally, to be given an invoice...

Sully

Am Chile, I know your just here to push the anti-household tax agenda but can you stick to the topic at hand and actually debate rather than posting videos plus actually post in general rather than just push an agenda. Your second post was nothing to do with the topic at hand. Its like me posting a link to the socialists TDs misusing the expenses (travel allowance) and pre-paid envelopes. Its just trying to have a dig to get people to support the campaign.

Sully

Sully wrote: »

Am Chile, I know your just here to push the anti-household tax agenda but can you stick to the topic at hand and actually debate rather than posting videos plus actually post in general rather than just push an agenda. Your second post was nothing to do with the topic at hand. Its like me posting a link to the socialists TDs misusing the expenses (travel allowance) and pre-paid envelopes. Its just trying to have a dig to get people to support the campaign.

This applies to everyone. Phil Hogan & his antics have nothing to do with Waterford. Pop over to the Politics Forum if you wish to discuss this.

christmas2012

we havent paid either - listen they cant fine all of us,they havent even decided yet,and they certainly cant jail all of us - if it comes to it i would rather spend a week in jail than pay that stupid tax,they can jail me every year if they like eejits