Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

Frank Bullitt

Max_Charger wrote: »

That figure came from the daily mail, you probably plucked it out of thin air...

I saw it over on the autosport forum, I didn't pluck it out of thin air.

StephenHendry

heard this on SSN this morning, i think we will know by this weekend as schumi announced his retirement first time at monza in 06,

Max_Charger

Gintonious wrote: »

I saw it over on the autosport forum, I didn't pluck it out of thin air.

Apologies, I didn't mean to type "you", I meant to type "they", as in the daily mail.

Frank Bullitt

Max_Charger wrote: »

Apologies, I didn't mean to type "you", I meant to type "they", as in the daily mail.

Ah, no worries.

Jordan 199

Schumi won't deviate on October deadline for his F1 future.

Michael Schumacher insists there will be no deviation from plans to finalise his Formula 1 future in October despite speculation suggesting Lewis Hamilton is to replace him next year.

Hamilton's management team have held talks with Mercedes about a contract for 2013, and former team boss Eddie Jordan has gone so far as stating that they have actually agreed terms.

Although such a deal would point to Schumacher retiring from F1 again at the end of the season, the seven-time champion suggested at Monza that his situation was unchanged.

Asked for his response to Jordan's suggestions, Schumacher said: "Yeah I read that or heard that, but obviously I have no comment."

He added: "There is very clearly no further statement. We told you guys October [for a decision] and we will tell you how things are going."

Full article on Autosport.

lee_baby_simms

As much as I respect Hamiltons driving ability I also feel that his mentality is his greatest opponent.

He seemed more interested with getting to 1 million twitter followers last weekend than winning the race.

He doesn't have the determined focus that you'd find in the likes of Schumacher, Alonso, Kimi.

I could never see him going to a team like Merc where he have to build success from 5 or 6th place in the constructors. He just wouldn't have the patience for it.

Truly gutted that Schumachers comeback hasn't worked out but he's still a hero to me.

Robbo

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

As much as I respect Hamiltons driving ability I also feel that his mentality is his greatest opponent.

He seemed more interested with getting to 1 million twitter followers last weekend than winning the race.

He doesn't have the determined focus that you'd find in the likes of Schumacher, Alonso, Kimi.

I could never see him going to a team like Merc where he have to build success from 5 or 6th place in the constructors. He just wouldn't have the patience for it.

Truly gutted that Schumachers comeback hasn't worked out but he's still a hero to me.

It's an interesting point about Hamilton not having the same drive these days.

Maybe it would suit him to have to work for it; since the age of about 10, he's always been hooked up with quality drives and gear.

Rascasse

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

He doesn't have the determined focus that you'd find in the likes of Schumacher, Alonso, Kimi.

When he came into F1 he was very focussed and determined and its something he seems to have lost.

I was reading something about how much work Alonso has put in this year at the factory between races and yet Lewis seems to spend his free time in America hanging out with rappers and his (one time) popstar girlfriend. He really should ditch her and find someone A: not as famous/busy and Europe based and B: about 10 years younger.

Some journos are also suggesting that he is not being best served by having XIX looking after his affairs. They may know showbusiness well but are new to sport and F1.

I also wonder if this is why we don't see his Dad anymore? Perhaps he was telling Lewis where he was going wrong and Lewis thought he knew better. He seemed to be in a better place when his Dad was around.

Frank Bullitt

Rascasse wrote: »

When he came into F1 he was very focussed and determined and its something he seems to have lost.

I was reading something about how much work Alonso has put in this year at the factory between races and yet Lewis seems to spend his free time in America hanging out with rappers and his (one time) popstar girlfriend. He really should ditch her and find someone A: not as famous/busy and Europe based and B: about 10 years younger.

Some journos are also suggesting that he is not being best served by having XIX looking after his affairs. They may know showbusiness well but are new to sport and F1.

I also wonder if this is why we don't see his Dad anymore? Perhaps he was telling Lewis where he was going wrong and Lewis thought he knew better. He seemed to be in a better place when his Dad was around.

I generally agree with this, you could see it last year at Canada, after he was out of the race, he was showing Rihanna around the garage and that, I think it was Brundle that said if that was Schumacher then he would have been talking to his engineers about the car. Maybe that is an extreme example, but I think its in the general ball park about his overall focus.

The famous lifestyle that he is around now (with the rappers etc) doesn't really fit with the F1 lifestyle, and that may be the biggest issue.

It shows how good Kimi is that he can get away with snowmobile racing and still outdrive just about anyone. :pac:

I agree that getting the straight path to the top may not stand to Hamilton in the long run. Just about everyone else on the grid had to at least serve a season in a crap team to begin their career other than Hamilton. His "monkeys at the back" comment a few seasons ago probably wouldn't have been made had he started in Super Aguri or something.

Corben Dallas

Lewis to Mercedes <> is prob a smoke screen to get more money from McLaren.

Altho it makes a lot of sense if Schumi is retiring this year.

With the V6 turbo's coming in 2014(?), it makes a LOT of sense to sign with a Engine Manufacturer (Works team). Ferrari and Mercedes are the only true 'Works' teams left in F1.

After Alonso, (and maybe Princess Stampy Foot) LH is the best driver out there, he is easily as quick as Alonso and Vettel, its just the incidents/brain fades/ distractions that let him down.

On Raw Pace LH is top of the pile and STTTrrrreeeets ahead of Button. I reckon McLaren know this. Button is a "everything prefect" driver, ie when everything is perfectly set up, car has good pace and hes out in front he can dominate. Difficult to drive cars, balance not perfect, have to monster the car etc >> Lewis is yer man.

I can see Lewis going to RedBull when Webber retires, he would be a good fit.

---

Reason(I reckon) his dad isnt managing anymore, him is that business relationship was too close, dad controlling things too much, wanted to have control over his own career etc.

He should get a proper manager > like Willi Weber etc. not the showbiz clowns he has now.

frostie500

I was asked to do a couple of facebook cover photos so thought I'd post them here as well, if anyone wants one of a specific driver PM me and Ill see if I have any good photos of them

Charlie-Bravo

Frostie - some really good photos there (and great ones from the Indy 500 too back in Feb). I enjoy seeing these posted as I have an interest in photography. I'm jealous of you getting to do this job!

Trampas

Is it just me or is paul di resta a bit overrated?

hear all this about bigger teams want him but i think there are better drivers on the grid.

might be just the british media building him up but never seems to delivery.

dloob

Trampas wrote: »

Is it just me or is paul di resta a bit overrated?

hear all this about bigger teams want him but i think there are better drivers on the grid.

might be just the british media building him up but never seems to delivery.

Yeah the British media big him up but I just don't see it.

frostie500

dloob wrote: »

Yeah the British media big him up but I just don't see it.

I find it pretty funny that di Resta was linked with the Merc drive for the whole year even though Hulkenberg has outperformed him at a lot of races this year and been more than a match for Paul. I think he's a good driver but he's yet to show me he's worthy of a top line drive

Rascasse

frostie500 wrote: »

I find it pretty funny that di Resta was linked with the Merc drive for the whole year even though Hulkenberg has outperformed him at a lot of races this year and been more than a match for Paul. I think he's a good driver but he's yet to show me he's worthy of a top line drive

The reason he is linked with replacing Schumacher is he was in the Merc driver development program, they see something in him and have very much helped him to get where he is. Also, to be fair, he has had rotten luck too that can affect how his performances appear.

Saying the British media 'big him up' is a little unfair. You'll likely find a single mention of him in most print media race reports. The BBC, however, love him thanks to his close friendship with fellow Scots Lee MacKenzie and Coulthard.

Would be interesting to see him in a more consistent car to see how he races. No matter what happens those FI always seem to go backwards in the races.

frostie500

Rascasse wrote: »

The reason he is linked with replacing Schumacher is he was in the Merc driver development program, they see something in him and have very much helped him to get where he is. Also, to be fair, he has had rotten luck too that can affect how his performances appear.

Saying the British media 'big him up' is a little unfair. You'll likely find a single mention of him in most print media race reports. The BBC, however, love him thanks to his close friendship with fellow Scots Lee MacKenzie and Coulthard.

Would be interesting to see him in a more consistent car to see how he races. No matter what happens those FI always seem to go backwards in the races.

The British media have hyped him up a lot-and its not just BBC its autosport, F1 Racing and a host of websites-to such an extent that you would have to have thought he was dominanting Hulkenberg. All of these have, at various points throughout the year, written features about di Resta and talked of him as the "next Team X driver"

I just think that its worth noting that he has been outperformed by a German and yet it seems there is a new rumour about him every week. The Merc youth development driver is a great programme for nurturing talent but when you get to F1 it's a results based business and to be honest there is nothing to choose between Hulk and di Resta and since Canada Hulkenburg has been much faster and more consistent. He qualifies better and races better so I can easily understand why people think di Resta is over-rated.

Rascasse

I honestly don't see much hyping about di Resta. Now I don't read Autosport anymore, bar if someone links to an interesting article online, but it wouldn't surprise me if they do features on him as he's British and their target readership (whats left of it) is British. But doing a feature isn't the same as hyping.

He's also got an interesting story in going via DTM and because of that route to F1 there may be speculation as to how good he is to the top guys as there isn't the usual GP2 comparison (though he did beat Vettel in F3 in the same car). But speculating how good he is isn't hyping.

The only time I can say I find him being hyped is by MacKenzie & Coulthard on the BBC. How many times have I heard on the forum Coulthard say "and lets not forget about Paul di Resta".

freestyla

Di Resta is very good driver, I don't doubt he would perform better in more reliable car/team.
Anyway I would say there is always 20-30% extra talk from home media.

For example in Finland also, Kovalainen is driving either for Lotus or Ferrari next year

Myrddin

Who & what was boo'd at Monza? I watched it but maybe missed whatever it was as I watched on Setanta & the after race coverage is virtually non existent

Frank Bullitt

Hamilton was booed quite badly after the podium ceremony, someone on the autosport forum said there were monkey noises as well.

The booing can be accepted, the monkey nosies have no place.

Myrddin

Gintonious wrote: »

Hamilton was booed quite badly after the podium ceremony, someone on the autosport forum said there were monkey noises as well.

The booing can be accepted, the monkey nosies have no place.

I've come to accept it in Spain, but surely this w@nkology hasn't followed him to Italy purely because Alonso drives for Ferarri?

Frank Bullitt

I think it might have only been a few, I mostly heard boos on the TV, the monkey noises are from someone over on autosport, so maybe taken with a pinch or 2 of salt.

Cookie_Monster

Lol, monkey noises, gotta love the italians

Mitch Connor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Lol, monkey noises, gotta love the italians

I see nothing funny at all in Hamilton being subjected to racist abuse.

Myrddin

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I see nothing funny at all in Hamilton being subjected to racist abuse.

Agreed, I fail to see the humour in it.

Myrddin

Did someone say Schumacher was getting boo's too?

freestyla

Button got boo's I think on saturday.

Not nice from Tifosos, F1 fans are not football hooligans!

freestyla

freestyla wrote: »

Button got boo's I think on saturday.

Not nice from Tifosos, F1 fans are not football hooligans!

Yup, there was noticeable cheering as he pulled over and boos when he squeezed out of the car.


A little off-topic but since there's no F1 next week I would advise anyone who can to watch the IndyCar next weekend. Championship decider and depending on qualifying if one guy wins the other needs 3rd to hold onto the championship, should be an entertaining one!

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

They have always been like that, slightly off topic Italian sports have always been blighted by racism. Its a common complaint of footballers that move to play in Italy. Its a real shame really as there is no need for it at all.

Italian racism is a curious one, the Northerners like to have some with the Southerners, they all like to have some with everyone else. :pac:

Beekay

freestyla wrote: »

Button got boo's I think on saturday.

Not nice from Tifosos, F1 fans are not football hooligans!

Hardly comparable to football hooligans! Booing other teams that are not Ferrari doesn't bother me, nothing wrong with a bit of passion and rivalry!

EvilMonkey

EnterNow wrote: »

I've come to accept it in Spain, but surely this w@nkology hasn't followed him to Italy purely because Alonso drives for Ferarri?

Nothing to do with Alonso, he drives for McLaren

Myrddin

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Nothing to do with Alonso, he drives for McLaren

I kinda knew that What I was getting at was, like the way the Spaniards tend to jeer & heckle Hamilton over the spat he had with their beloved Alonso...has Alonso now become so sacred to the Tiffosi the rivalry Alonso has with Hamilton now results in the same treatment for Hamilton in Italy?

I've never heard of racial slurring, barring in Spain directed at Hamilton...can't understand why he was getting monkey noises in Italy.

lolie

Watched the race with rtl and the sound via a sky stream so couldnt hear the booing to clearly.
Bit idiotic.
Love it if lewis replaced massa in the ferrari next year, would really confuse them.
Sadly wont happen though.

dloob

I'd love to be a McLaren driver winning in Monza.
I'd need a police escort from the circuit after my over the top triumphalist podium performance.

Jordan 199

Mercedes to test major upgrade package at Magny-Cours this week.

Mercedes will test a major upgrade to its car at Magny-Cours this week, AUTOSPORT can reveal, as it bids to end its season on a high.

After a recent spell where it has focused on improving its understanding of tyres rather than delivering updates, Mercedes plans to trial an all-new exhaust system as well as revised double-DRS during this week's Young Driver Test.

AUTOSPORT has learned that as well as continuing the evaluation of the Lotus-style double-DRS that it trialled in Belgium, the Mercedes W03 will feature its version of the Coanda-type exhaust that has been put to such good use by McLaren, Ferrari and Sauber this season.

Full article on Autosport.

They need to start over, they've the same issue as last year and nothing they've done so far has fixed it, there's a fundamental issue with the car.

the culture of deference

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I see nothing funny at all in Hamilton being subjected to racist abuse.

Don't we all come from the same place. I cannot understand how the italians don't understand that. We are all apes.

Deleted User wrote: »

Italian racism is a curious one, the Northerners like to have some with the Southerners, they all like to have some with everyone else. :pac:

Southern Italians are looked on by the north like itinerants here.

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Mercedes to test major upgrade package at Magny-Cours this week.

Full article on Autosport.

hope so

Myrddin

the culture of deference wrote: »

Don't we all come from the same place. I cannot understand how the italians don't understand that. We are all apes.

The mindless stupidity of racism, astonishing at times isn't it

Rascasse

James Allen seems to think the deal is done an Lewis has signed for Mercedes.

His site is suffering from high demand at the moment so I've copied part of the article below. Full thing here.

Lewis Hamilton’s demeanour and that of his team after victory in the Italian Grand Prix bore all the hallmarks of a divorce that has already been agreed. Minimal celebrations on the pit wall and beneath the podium, a team photo for appearances’ sake with an implacable looking Hamilton and Ron Dennis declining to join in.

Despite appearances, team boss Martin Whitmarsh said after the race that suggestions that a deal was already done were “fantasy” and insisted that the door is still open if Hamilton wants to stay.

However driver contracts often get signed during race weekends and there were strong indications that the situation may have been closed out before everyone left Monza.

Hamilton looks like he is moving on, perhaps the only way he can become his own man, certainly the only way he and XIX Entertainment can fully cash in on his status, box office power and his image rights. And that is a big part of what this is about. Mercedes is one of the world’s most powerful brands, while McLaren makes F1 cars and small volume sports cars. This deal will take Hamilton’s name and image well beyond the boundaries of F1. If Hamilton did not want this, why would he had signed up with XIX?

Also McLaren drivers have to work within strict guidelines with team sponsors. Mercedes need Hamilton and this deal will give him greater freedom. The suggested deal with Mercedes and its sponsors is very big and so too will be the impact it will make on the competition in F1 over the next three years and the driver market in the nearer term.

Will be interesting to see if any of the other other trusted journos confirm this in the coming week.

Edit: F1 Racing stirring the pot too:

the culture of deference

EnterNow wrote: »

The mindless stupidity of racism, astonishing at times isn't it

I wonder how conflicted they will be when lewis is in a ferrari.

the culture of deference

Anyway the latest gossip is DiResta to mclaren, MS to ferrari, Lewis to merc, felipe to force india, petrov out.

Silly season at it's best.

Anyone got full details on who has defo signed for next year

Red Bull SV and MW
McLaren JB and ???
Merc ?????
Force India ????
Sauber ????
Ferrari FA and ???
Lotus KR and ??
Williams ??????

GP2 teams

Virgin
Marussia
Torro Rosso
Caterham
HRT

Myrddin

Whats Kimi's contract? Is he confirmed at Lotus for next year?

Myrddin

Wow if so. He may enjoy any podium he gets from here on more so than ever because there may not be very many more for a while to come looking at the lack of progress made by Merc in three years.

It'll certainly shake things up, thats for sure. Maybe it'll be good for him to get out of McLaren. Who knows

Max_Charger

I still cant believe this. I really hope he stays at McLaren but if he does go,then I pray he knows something we don't in terms of Merc development because it seems he'll be taking a massive step backwards. I did find it odd after winning at the weekend he didn't celebrate or go over to congratulate the team after he had stepped out of the car.

Rascasse

EnterNow wrote: »

Whats Kimi's contract? Is he confirmed at Lotus for next year?

I don't think so but if he stays he's unlikely to go anywhere. McLaren and Ferrari are too much hard work for him and right now, as Lotus have next to no sponsors, he just gets to turn up and drive.

Force India are unlikely to confirm anyone before the end of the season as I wouldn't be surprised if they are sold. Vijay's good business are being sold off to pay off the bad debts of the failing ones and his business partner at FI was fined billions for a dodgy investment.

Joe Saward (who has very close links at Caterham) pretty much confirmed that whoever is bank rolling Petrov is unlikey to keep it up to the same degree next year. He also suggested they weren't getting value for KOV and unless he's a bit cheaper next year they may look elsewhere. Maybe a chance for Giedo van der Garde if they can get a good pay driver in the other car?

Max_Charger

Kimi is in contract with Lotus till the end of next year.

lolie

Going by his demeanour at monza he looked like a lad thats on the way out.
But after the race he said this

"A shame for the team that we didn't get the one-two here in Monza, but there's always next year." ??

Rascasse

The positives for going to Merc are the 2014 new regs. PURE have run out of money so only Merc and Renault will be making the engines. No doubt that will help Merc ahead of the season. Having a clear number one and building the car around him will help too.

Like I said before, it may be a great move or it may be a shocker. I'm sure he'll have an exit clause in his contract if it goes badly and he'll end up back at one of the top teams.