Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

rua1972

Jordan 191 wrote: »

And there is also the mental issue imo. I think once a driver is in a serious accident, their speed is blunted and I don't think they can push their cars to the limit anymore.

The crash Kubica had in Canada didnt really effect him and it wasn't a small crash.
Hakkinenen was put in a coma after his crash in adelaide and he went on to become worldchampion.
It depends on the driver i guess how one comes back from a big crash. With Kubica the longer his recovery takes the further he gets from a drive in F1. I don't know if he still has a contract for this year or if there was only an option for 2012.

frostie500

rua1972 wrote: »

With Kubica the longer his recovery takes the further he gets from a drive in F1. I don't know if he still has a contract for this year or if there was only an option for 2012.

He's out of contract

Jordan 199

rua1972 wrote: »

It depends on the driver i guess how one comes back from a big crash.

I agree with that.

amacachi

It's going to vary massively from crash to crash and driver to driver but I can personally see how a situation like Massa's could be worse than Kubica's in Canada. It was a big crash but he wasn't too hurt so that's reassuring. It was an avoidable crash as he was in tight traffic whereas with Massa it was a complete fluke. It must be really hard getting into a car knowing that even without any mistake from you or another driver you almost died.

cocalolaman

antodeco wrote: »

Has anyone been to the Valencia street curcuit? Any good for spectators?

I've never been. But i've unfortunatly watched every race on telly. It currently has to be the worst race of the season imo. Very little action has ever taken place there.

antodeco

cocalolaman wrote: »

antodeco wrote: »

Has anyone been to the Valencia street curcuit? Any good for spectators?

I've never been. But i've unfortunatly watched every race on telly. It currently has to be the worst race of the season imo. Very little action has ever taken place there.

Balls. Might leave it and goto Monza!

Jordan 199

stevemac wrote: »

Its meant to have cost him a chance at a Williams seat.

I guess we have to wait for the court case to be out of the way to see what Williams will do.

I also think that Williams will take Senna and Sutil to testing and see which driver performs the best before choosing which driver will take the second seat.

amacachi

Ficus wrote: »

I would think that Sutil is too risky to give seat time to if he is looking at a prison sentence.
Anyway, im led to believe Williams are set to announce Senna before the end of the week.

Prosecutors are looking for a one-year suspended sentence, that's the likely max he could possibly get unless he ****s on a table in the court or something.

Carroller16

cocalolaman wrote: »

I've never been. But i've unfortunatly watched every race on telly. It currently has to be the worst race of the season imo. Very little action has ever taken place there.

I am going to Valencia this year. My sisters wedding is on in Malaga on the Wednesday before so me and my nephew are flying up there on the Saturday for our first Grand Prix.

Hopefully there will be a drastic change in the amount of action. I'm sitting just at the turn before the bridge on the right hand side as the drivers approach the turn before the bridge. Anybody know if these are decent seats?

h3000

Senna got the Williams seat

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/16587505.stm

Brazilian Bruno Senna has signed to drive for Williams in 2012.

The move means the 28-year-old is joining the team for which his uncle Ayrton Senna was driving when he was killed in 1994.

He was preferred to veteran countryman Rubens Barrichello for the position and will partner Venezuelan Pastor Maldonado.

Senna impressed sporadically after being drafted in by the Renault team in the final races of last season.

His only other experience of F1 is spending the 2010 season with the struggling HRT team.

Barrichello, who will be 40 this year, had been hoping to extend his F1 career into a 20th season but Williams preferred to go for the promise and potential of Senna rather than Barrichello's proven pace and experience.

There was support among some sections of the Williams team for Barrichello keeping the drive, on the basis that he is a proven talent and because of his renowned technical expertise.

However, sources close to Williams say the relationship between the driver and the team's management soured over time as a result of the slide in the team's results.

Williams had the worst season in their history in 2011 and are in the middle of a rebuilding process, with a new technical director, chief aerodynamicist and chief engineer, and some in the team felt they could benefit from continuity of drivers and Barrichello's experience.

The only remaining free seat in F1 for 2012 is the second HRT alongside veteran Spaniard Pedro de la Rosa.

But Barrichello is considered unlikely to want to drive for the back-of-the-grid Spanish team.

Veteran Italian Jarno Trulli's tenure at Caterham - who raced as Lotus last year - is also believed to be insecure, but Russian Vitaly Petrov, who drove for Renault in 2010 and 2011, is tipped to get that seat.

cocalolaman

Carroller16 wrote: »

I am going to Valencia this year. My sisters wedding is on in Malaga on the Wednesday before so me and my nephew are flying up there on the Saturday for our first Grand Prix.

Hopefully there will be a drastic change in the amount of action. I'm sitting just at the turn before the bridge on the right hand side as the drivers approach the turn before the bridge. Anybody know if these are decent seats?

Turn 8? You might get some overtakes there. Before the corner is basically a slightly curved straight where someone might get alongside another if they get a better run out of turn 5. You'll get a better chance of some action there than some other corners though. Just dont expect much.

marco2068

h3000 wrote: »

Senna got the Williams seat

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/16587505.stm

well if they are keeping Maldonado they may as well stay at home. It just shows i suppose how bad they are financially. If they had any sence sutil would have got the seat and they could have kept Maldonado on the long finger.

Charlie-Bravo

58 days till First Practice and counting....

I noticed I've been suffering withdrawal symtoms over the last few weeks. You know when you're on the road driving through a 50kph zone in second gear, high revs, waiting for the 100kph sign and then flooring it to get up to speed again. Then while in slow moving traffic thinking about serving the car left and right to keep then heat in your tyres....

Top Dog

So its looking like curtains for Rubens then?

Should have taken Massa's advice!

vectra

marco2068 wrote: »

well if they are keeping Maldonado they may as well stay at home. It just shows i suppose how bad they are financially. If they had any sence sutil would have got the seat and they could have kept Maldonado on the long finger.

Sutil could well be in prison for the 2012 season..They needed someone that would be in the seat with a wad of cash I guess

Jordan 199

marco2068 wrote: »

well if they are keeping Maldonado they may as well stay at home. It just shows i suppose how bad they are financially. If they had any sence sutil would have got the seat and they could have kept Maldonado on the long finger.

They do need Maldonado's money for sure. Williams lost an awful lot of sponsors from 2005 onwords, and big ones at that. HP left in 2005, FedEx went to McLaren in around 2007 and Philips left in 2010.

Bruno Senna is bringing Embratel and other sponsors with him to Williams.

Top Dog wrote: »

So its looking like curtains for Rubens then?

I don't see Rubens being on the grid this year.

smellslikeshoes

Ficus wrote: »

Isnt it odd that we have a Senna in a Williams Renault again?

Senna name definitely has unfinished business at Williams. Really hope they can finally stop the rot this year, sad to see a once great team at the tail end.

Jordan 199

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Senna name definitely has unfinished business at Williams. Really hope they can finally stop the rot this year, sad to see a once great team at the tail end.

I read in Autosport that Williams are hoping to make a significant improvement this year. Getting through to Q3 in qualifying, finishing in the top 10 in races and consistently scoring points.

I do think they will improve this year, but I don't think it will be a significant. It will be a step in the right direction though.

Glico Man

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well they certainly cant get any worse! You would almost cycle around the track quicker than last years car :pac:

Just watch out for Maldonado... might side swipe you

Jordan 199

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well they certainly cant get any worse! You would almost cycle around the track quicker than last years car :pac:

I'd say Williams biggest threat this year will come from Caterham. It's their third season in the sport now and they need to start scoring points. They have no excuses now as they have an excellent designer, Renault engines and a healthy budget.

I see Williams, Caterham and Torro Rosso scrapping for the lower points.

Mickey H

LIGHTNING wrote: »

As much as Senna did last season he isnt a patch on Ayrton!

That's true at the moment. However, after watching him last year, I feel he has it if given a good chance.

Ficus wrote: »

Nobody is a patch on Aryton!

Michael Schumacher in his prime was equal overall IMO.

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

As much as Senna did last season he isnt a patch on Ayrton!

And never will be.

Jordan 199

Caterham are to launch their 2012 car on the cover of F1 Racing on the 26th of January.

2012 launch dates so far:

Caterham: 26th of January.

McLaren: 1st of February (Woking).

Force India: 3rd of February (Silverstone).

Ferrari: 3rd of February (Maranello).

Sauber: 6th of February (Jerez).

Red Bull: 6th of Febuary (online).

Carroller16

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/7442014/?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed_F1

According to a report in Spain, the second seat at HRT - the last available on the 2012 grid - will cost at least €6million and Dutchman Giedo van der Garde has the money.

Spanish newspaper Marca has reported that HRT are looking for a considerable financial injection from their second driver, with the six million mark said to be the minimum requirement.

Van der Garde, who finished fifth in last year's GP2 Series and third in the GP2 Asia Series, has been linked with the position and appears upbeat about his prospects.

The 26-year-old wrote on Twitter: "I'm still waiting for news. Training very hard at the moment, to prepare myself the best! I'm Positive to have good news soon. Keep following".

Van der Garde has previous F1 experience, having been part of the McLaren Young Drivers' Programme in 2006 and as well as testing for Spyker in 2007.

Jordan 199

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Gotta love cheque book racers!

Lol.

I wonder did HRT ask Petrov to drive for them considering the money he brings with him.

I also read in Autosport that Jarno Trulli's seat could be under threat from Petrov at Caterham.

Glico Man

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Lol.

I wonder did HRT ask Petrov to drive for them considering the money he brings with him.

I also read in Autosport that Jarno Trulli's seat could be under threat from Petrov at Caterham.

If Caterham were serious about going for points this year then I feel they have to be ruthless and drop Trulli. He underperformed in comparison to Heikki last season. All this talk of the more experienced helping to develop the cars didn't exactly help Williams nor Team Lotus the last two years.

Petrov impressed a few times, especially early on before he faded and could be a decent runner. Also wouldn't be surprised if they turn to one of the former Torro Rosso drivers... Alguersuari has a few well paying backers

Jordan 199

aaronh007 wrote: »

If Caterham were serious about going for points this year then I feel they have to be ruthless and drop Trulli. He underperformed in comparison to Heikki last season. All this talk of the more experienced helping to develop the cars didn't exactly help Williams nor Team Lotus the last two years.

Petrov impressed a few times, especially early on before he faded and could be a decent runner. Also wouldn't be surprised if they turn to one of the former Torro Rosso drivers... Alguersuari has a few well paying backers

I think Trulli just isin't motivated anymore, and I do remember he was moaning about the power steering last year whereas Heikki kept his down and got on with the job.

You never know, Jarno's career in F1 might be Trulli over before the season has started.:eek:

I think Alguersuari would be a good fit at Caterham, whether he brings funds or not. Caterham aren't a team short of dough.

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Gotta love cheque book racers!

There won't be much else coming through over the next while. Could be argued there hasn't been much else for a while now.

Glico Man

amacachi wrote: »

There won't be much else coming through over the next while. Could be argued there hasn't been much else for a while now.

Even if you look at the driver programmes that teams have, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of talent coming through into F1. Gary Paffett was supposed to be the next big thing for McLaren but hasn't gotten out of the testing seat yet. He's at least 30 now so I doubt he'll get any chances.

Red Bull have managed to get some drivers through by way of having Torro Rosso as a feeder team; Vettel and now Ricciardo.

Jordan 199

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Gotta love cheque book racers!

The cheque book driver at Sauber (Perez) isin't a bad driver at all. He may end up at Ferrari next year.

Glico Man

Jordan 191 wrote: »

The cheque book driver at Sauber (Perez) isin't a bad driver at all. He may end up at Ferrari next year.

He's not entirely a cheque book driver. Isn't he at Sauber due to him being a part of Ferrari's driver programme and a deal giving Sauber Ferrari engines?

Jordan 199

aaronh007 wrote: »

He's not entirely a cheque book driver. Isn't he at Sauber due to him being a part of Ferrari's driver programme and a deal giving Sauber Ferrari engines?

He might be, but as far as I know he got the job because of the funds he took along with him.

You do have a point about the Ferrari connection though, Massa is an example of that.

vectra

35 should be the upper limit on age to race F1
Too old and nervous after that..
Look at the oldies out there.
Schumacher
Trulli
Fisi> Gone
Pedro Delarosa
Barrichello

Keep the young guns..
Fresh with a big hunger..

losthorizon

vectra wrote: »

35 should be the upper limit on age to race F1
Too old and nervous after that..
Look at the oldies out there.
Schumacher
Trulli
Fisi> Gone
Pedro Delarosa
Barrichello

Keep the young guns..
Fresh with a big hunger..

Is there a thumbs down button?

vectra

losthorizon wrote: »

Is there a thumbs down button?

Well to be faie they are all well past their best before date.

RayM

vectra wrote: »

35 should be the upper limit on age to race F1
Too old and nervous after that..
Look at the oldies out there.
Schumacher
Trulli
Fisi> Gone
Pedro Delarosa
Barrichello

Keep the young guns..
Fresh with a big hunger..

Rubens Barrichello - 37 when he last won a race.
Michael Schumacher - 37 when he last won a race.
Gerhard Berger - 38 when he last won a race.
Damon Hill - 36 when he won the championship. 38 when he last won a race.
Nigel Mansell - 39 when he won the championship. 41 when he last won a race.
Alain Prost - 38 when he won his final championship.

vectra

RayM wrote: »

Rubens Barrichello - 37 when he last won a race.
Michael Schumacher - 37 when he last won a race.
Gerhard Berger - 38 when he last won a race.
Damon Hill - 36 when he won the championship. 38 when he last won a race.
Nigel Mansell - 39 when he won the championship. 41 when he last won a race.
Alain Prost - 38 when he won his final championship.

They werent up against any of the competition that is out there now.
Different times

Carroller16

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/16649348.stm`

HRT insist they will race despite 'critical delays'

HRT are having a tough winter but say they will be ready for 2012 The struggling HRT team have admitted their preparations have suffered a "critical delay" but insist they will be ready for the start of the season.

HRT, who have new owners and a new team principal, revealed that the restructuring had delayed the design and production of their new 2012 car.

But a spokeswoman said: "Rumours that we will take part in the initial grands prix with the 2011 car are not true.

"The target is to be at the second [pre-season] test with the new car."

Pre-season testing begins with a four-day test in Jerez in southern Spain starting on 7 February, when HRT plan to use their 2011 car.

Continue reading the main story There's been, and still is, a lot to work on but, even if we may struggle in the beginning, the structure that is being built now is a lot more solid, reliable and committed
HRT spokeswoman
The teams move to Barcelona for the second test on 21 February.

There is a final test, also running for four days, from 4 March, again at Barcelona, before the first race of the season on 18 March in Melbourne, Australia.

Team principal Luis Perez-Sala, who replaced Colin Kolles in December, was not available for interview.

The spokeswoman said: "Luis Perez-Sala is fully focused at the moment on the car and the new structure, and he prefers not to give any statements or interviews to the press for now until everything is in place."

She added that the 2012 car had passed some of its regulation crash tests but has more to complete.

For the first time this season teams have to pass all the crash tests required by the FIA, the sport's governing body, before they run the car on track. Previously, they were only required to do so before it raced.

Rumours in F1 circles have suggested that HRT, who finished 11th out of 12 teams in both seasons since their debut in 2010, will struggle to have their car ready because they do not have enough time.

As recently as November, they were in talks with Caterham Composites - a company owned by Caterham F1 bosses Tony Fernandes and Mike Gascoyne - about designing and building the 2012 HRT.

But these foundered and last month the team announced they would design and build their own car.

The spokeswoman added: "The philosophy of the new owners has always been first work and then talk. And try to be as open and honest as possible.

"There's been, and still is, a lot to work on but, even if we may struggle in the beginning, the structure that is being built now is a lot more solid, reliable and committed.

"Hopefully, we'll be able to prove all that soon and change the team's perception, which is no longer real. It won't be a bed of roses but we'll manage to do it."

The team have one confirmed driver in veteran Spaniard Pedro de la Rosa, and the spokeswoman said negotiations over a second driver are "still ongoing".

Dutch GP2 driver Giedo van der Garde has been heavily linked with the seat in media reports in Spain.

dloob

Same old HRT, so will they make their first appearance at the 2nd or 3rd race?

Glico Man

Ugh, good ol' HRT. Can't we just be done with them please? Give an actual team a shot at their space in the pitlane?

Jordan 199

aaronh007 wrote: »

Ugh, good ol' HRT. Can't we just be done with them please? Give an actual team a shot at their space in the pitlane?

HRT were a problem from day 1.

I can't believe that they managed to stay in the sport for 2 years so far tbh. I thought they wouldn't last a whole season when they came in in 2010. Colin Kolles managed to keep them going though.

Of the 4 teams the FIA selected to enter F1 in 2010, Lotus/Caterham showed they were serious from day 1.

Now look at the other 3:

HRT: Money problems from day 1.

Virgin Manor: Couldn't be bothered using a wind tunnel.

USF1: Didn't make it to the grid.

smellslikeshoes

aaronh007 wrote: »

Ugh, good ol' HRT. Can't we just be done with them please? Give an actual team a shot at their space in the pitlane?

Who's to say that if another team was gotten in they would do any better or even manage to keep afloat?

I personally don't understand why the lower 3 teams get so much hate. There always has been lower down teams who have little or no chance of points. And apart from a few years in the 2000s the teams at the back were just as far back or further than they are now.

smellslikeshoes

LIGHTNING wrote: »

As already said apart from Lotus the rest seem like a real amateur outfits, back in the 90`s the smaller teams were at times competitve. Remember Hill nearly won in that Arrow`s!

And the teams at the bottom of the grid in the 90s weren't amateur?
Hill in Hungary 97 was a bit of a fairytale situation though in fairness. The majority of lower end teams who scored points in the 90s were seriously helped by the hit and miss reliability of the time. I'd even make the jump that if the reliability of cars was the same now as in even the late 90s with the current points Caterhem/Team lotus would have a total over the 2 years easily in double digits.

The 3 new teams are dreadfully slow, I'm not denying that but having been able to keep themselves on the grid for 2 years and hopefully all about to start a third, it's no small feat, and they have all made progress. I just don't think they should get put down as much as they do.

amacachi

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

And the teams at the bottom of the grid in the 90s weren't amateur?
Hill in Hungary 97 was a bit of a fairytale situation though in fairness. The majority of lower end teams who scored points in the 90s were seriously helped by the hit and miss reliability of the time. I'd even make the jump that if the reliability of cars was the same now as in even the late 90s with the current points setup teams like Caterhem/Team lotus would have a total over the 2 years easily in double digits.

The 3 new teams are dreadfully slow, I'm not denying that but having been able to keep themselves on the grid for 2 years and hopefully all about to start a third, it's no small feat, and they have all made progress. I just don't think they should get put down as much as they do.

That's exactly it. In the mid-nineties it was regular for there to be a few cars lapped 6 or 7 times in each race, now it's rarely more than 3. TAs you say, the reliability is what's making the slower teams now look particularly bad.

Jordan 199

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

The 3 new teams are dreadfully slow, I'm not denying that but having been able to keep themselves on the grid for 2 years and hopefully all about to start a third, it's no small feat, and they have all made progress. I just don't think they should get put down as much as they do.

Marussia F1 (Virgin) should improve this year now that they have ditched using CFD and have access to McLarens wind tunnel and technical facilities so that should help them move in the right direction

Caterham should start scoring points this year too, they don't have excuses anymore.

Marussia and Caterham will improve this year, but HRT do need to get money into the team, because if they don't, they won't be going anywhere.

I will give Colin Kolles credit for keeping HRT going though.

G-Money

Collin Kolles is no longer with HRT as far as I know.

I see the FIA has banned the Lotus style reactive ride height system for 2012. That's one thing that always annoys me a bit. Some smart engineers come up with a clever idea and the FIA immediately ban it. Seems to be a sure-fire way to stifle innovation.

I think the only thing they didn't really "ban" recently was McLaren's f-duct which got morphed into the DRS system.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97127

Jordan 199

G-Money wrote: »

Collin Kolles is no longer with HRT as far as I know.

I see the FIA has banned the Lotus style reactive ride height system for 2012. That's one thing that always annoys me a bit. Some smart engineers come up with a clever idea and the FIA immediately ban it. Seems to be a sure-fire way to stifle innovation.

Yeah, Colin Kolles is no longer part of HRT.

As for the banning of the reactive ride height system, I think there is more to this story. The FIA gave Lotus the green light to go ahead with it last January.

I also think some team(s) kicked up a fuss about it.

Frank Bullitt

Not sure if the brake system will have a real impact on the field, i read somewhere that it didn't have a huge cost attached to it like the F-Duct or blown diff so it wouldn't have had a huge impact on performance.

Jordan 199

G-Money wrote: »

I see the FIA has banned the Lotus style reactive ride height system for 2012. That's one thing that always annoys me a bit. Some smart engineers come up with a clever idea and the FIA immediately ban it. Seems to be a sure-fire way to stifle innovation.

The rules are far too restrictive, and I think the FIA should relax them so teams can show off their technical abilities like what Lotus came up with.

vectra

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Yeah, Colin Kolles is no longer part of HRT.

As for the banning of the reactive ride height system, I think there is more to this story. The FIA gave Lotus the green light to go ahead with it last January.

I also think some team(s) kicked up a fuss about it.

Yup.
Ferrari,
As far as they are concerned they are the only team that should be allowed run illegal parts
ie.Moveable floors for one