Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

mikom

A building is liable if it is occupied, or suitable for occupation.

Time to install a quickly removable jacks I think........ or else shite in a bucket.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I honestly am baffled to why people are objecting so much to this.

Here are some suggestions as to how you can afford this:

1. Buy one less pint every fortnight in the pub if you drink
2. Try cut down on your cigarettes if you smoke.
3. Don't buy that pack of digestive biscuits/jaffa cakes/bag of donouts from the bakery in your weekly shopping

4. Watch your local businesses close.

ilovesleep

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I haven't taken part in any discussions on boards.ie about the household charge. I haven't even had time to read any articles in the papers about it, yet I see it on the headlines every day

I honestly am baffled to why people are objecting so much to this. I am certainly not well off but whether it be upper class middle class or even lower class I think everyone can afford to pay €100 euro a year. And if it generates money that contributes to getting us out of this economic mess why wouldn't you?

Here are some suggestions as to how you can afford this:

1. Buy one less pint every fortnight in the pub if you drink
2. Try cut down on your cigarettes if you smoke.
3. Don't buy that pack of digestive biscuits/jaffa cakes/bag of donouts from the bakery in your weekly shopping

etc. etc.

Honestly, I understand that people are so used to being spoilt from their Celtic Tiger days, but people complain so much over nothing. Pay the tax and get over it

No doubt I will be flamed for this but feck it

But what will happen when this tax is increased to goodness knows what?

Household bills are increasing which will lead to less disposable income at a time when for many people their incomes have already drastically reduced either through unemployment or reduced working hours. We are already reaching 15% unemployment.

For the most part it is going to hit those in the private sector eg retail the hardest while people in the public sector are sitting very comfy on top of the croke park agreement which was introduced at a time the country was going downhill into a recession to save their incomes which was over inflated.

gigino

ilovesleep wrote: »

For the most part it is going to hit those in the private sector eg retail the hardest while people in the public sector are sitting very comfy on top of the croke park agreement which was introduced at a time the country was going downhill into a recession to save their incomes which was over inflated.

+1.
The new tax is a further transfer of wealth from the private sector to the public sector.

Toby Take a Bow

CricketDude wrote: »

Well if they were left in jail until they paid, i bet they wouldnt be so gung ho.

They didn't know how long they would be 'left in jail' the first time around, and don't know this time around either, so

44leto wrote: »

But I recognise the gov need more income for public services, so it is either get it this way or more income tax. Either way they get it.

An increase in income tax would be fairer. I'm not in any way against an increase in taxes, but a tax that is the same regardless of what you earn? Absolutely not.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Honestly, I understand that people are so used to being spoilt from their Celtic Tiger days, but people complain so much over nothing. Pay the tax and get over it

No doubt I will be flamed for this but feck it

It's really not the amount, for me anyway (were I a householder), what I would object to is (as mentioned above) that it is a blanket tax regardless of what you earn and that it is highly likely that it will increase once householders register.

ilovesleep wrote: »

For the most part it is going to hit those in the private sector eg retail the hardest while people in the public sector are sitting very comfy on top of the croke park agreement which was introduced at a time the country was going downhill into a recession to save their incomes which was over inflated.

You really need to differentiate between people in the public sector who are earning very nice wages and those who are earning far, far below the average industrial wage. When I was employed (in retail, in the private sector) I was getting increments which were far better than my friend who was a lowly paid public service employee. If people in this country were to realise the trick played on us by pitting private vs public, when really we should see the whole thing as lowly paid vs highly paid, it would make me so very, very happy.

Callipo

I will pay it.

The whole everyone not paying bin charges a few years ago, after the whole hullabaloo, just left me not paying.

I paid eventually.

Saving myself the bollixoligy this time around.

ilovesleep

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

You really need to differentiate between people in the public sector who are earning very nice wages and those who are earning far, far below the average industrial wage. When I was employed (in retail, in the private sector) I was getting increments which were far better than my friend who was a lowly paid public service employee. If people in this country were to realise the trick played on us by pitting private vs public, when really we should see the whole thing as lowly paid vs highly paid, it would make me so very, very happy.

I didn't mean to offend anyone with that generalisation and I realise there a different levels. Those on the lower end of the scale would be feeling the pinch of the resession along with the rest of us but there is no denying there would be many sitting pretty protected by their contracts.

Many people lucky to have a job will be working to earn a living but they will be working like paupers to pay into an over inflated system if the CPA isn't scrapped as soon as possible.

Frank Black

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

You really need to differentiate between people in the public sector who are earning very nice wages and those who are earning far, far below the average industrial wage. When I was employed (in retail, in the private sector) I was getting increments which were far better than my friend who was a lowly paid public service employee. If people in this country were to realise the trick played on us by pitting private vs public, when really we should see the whole thing as lowly paid vs highly paid, it would make me so very, very happy.

Totally agree with this.
But very few people in the public service break ranks, the irony is that the unions who are supposed to be protecting the lower paid, are actually protecting the overpaid.

Toby Take a Bow

black francis wrote: »

Totally agree with this.
But very few people in the public service break ranks, the irony is that the unions who are supposed to be protecting the lower paid, are actually protecting the overpaid.

And I agree with this. The unions' political persuasion closely mirrors that of Labour. Of course, it always has, it's just unfortunate that both have swung to the right in recent years.

I've had nasty run-ins with the Unions over the years, and my overall impression is that they're in it for themselves.

howtomake

Um have they not announced that they will be looking at ways to say garnish wages from those who have not paid, & other such? Sounds like they've been reading boards:p

Robdude

I rent an apartment. The rent is set by my landlord.

The landlord isn't going to rent out his place unless he can make money. Other landlords are in the exact same position as he is. This is why rents are high in some places like city centre/Dublin and low in remote places of Ireland. It's not that all of the landlords in city centre/Dublin got together and said, 'Let's chargre more' - it's just the natural order of things.

Because there is more demand, housing costs more in Dublin. And the price of houses determines the price point at which people are willing to rent out places.

If I owned a house, I wouldn't bother with the hassle of renting it out unless I could expect to make enough money to make it worth my time. That means, if the government says I have to pay 20% tax on the money I get from my tenants - I need to charge them 20% more. If the government says I have to pay 100 euro each year - I need to charge my tenants 100 euro more.

So - because I'm in a lease now - I won't pay this tax. Yet. In a year or two it will be passed on to the renters. Because that's how it works.

daltonmd

Freddie59 wrote: »

According to Happy Gilmore during the week, the reason he cited for keeping the PS wages increment gravy train on the rails was the Croke Park agreement.

He said that these workers were granted mortgages on the basis of receiving these increments, but might not be able to meet the repayments if they didn't get them. Just another example of the bubble that Happy & Co. live in.:rolleyes:

If happy Gilmore said that then what should be clear (if it wasn't already!) is that this is the banks being protected, yet again and not the frontline and low paid public service.

ilovesleep

ArielAtom wrote: »

I have a pain in my swiss paying tax. Paid, stamp duty of €109,000 in 2006 so I am pissed at this new fcuking tax.
I'd love to say fcuk off, but will pobably pay it to save hassle.

Oh my god!

I did some some sums

109,000 stamp duty tax:
With the incoming tax of 100 euro and you paid 109,000 euro, you have already paid for 1090 years.

But we know this tax is going to rise. 600 euro could be a possible future figure, so you have already paid 181 years

People here use the uk as an example so lets bring this up to 1200 a year, so you have already paid 90 years
I don't think using the uk as an example is fair though. Their council tax is high but they get refuse and other services for their money. Here bins is paid separately and that bill is high. Services is paid for with tax, prsi, usc,

More blankness:
Depending on your circumstances you probably borrowed the money for stamp duty as part of your mortgage and depending on todays circumstances you could very well still be paying that off.

The booms stamp duty taxes went to over inflate the SW and the PS pay and the new tax is going towards the over inflated expenditures to keep many people sitting comfy.

Freddie59

gigino wrote: »

So in other words if 2,800,000 houses each pay 100 euro each....thats equivalent to next years public sector pay increases...thats a lot more houses than are eligible to pay the tax.

At least people can see where their taxes are going;)

It really is mad - isn't it?

Freddie59

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I honestly am baffled to why people are objecting so much to this.

It is not the charge - it is what brought the charge about. The foreign banks that backed a losing horse, and who want the Irish taxpayer to repay their stake; the ongoing absurdity that is the PS wage bill/conditions; and the fact that the majority of people in this country did not cause this - but are expected to shell out.

THAT, my friend, is why people are objecting so vehemently to this.

Freddie59

daltonmd wrote: »

If happy Gilmore said that then what should be clear (if it wasn't already!) is that this is the banks being protected, yet again and not the frontline and low paid public service.

Agreed - but do two wrongs make a right?;) Personally I think Happy G is just using it as a convenient cover in order to placate the bould Jack and the PS Unions though. Ireland, Inc is insolvent. If it were a private entity we all know what would happen:

Redundancies on a massive scale, wage cuts, and the shredding of all contracts. But hey - this is ireland. Can't be having that now, can we?

SONIC2008

Sam Kade wrote: »

Your landlord will have to pay it but I can guarantee he will pass the cost onto you one way or another.

Doubt you can guarentee that, my mum is a landlady and she will not be passing on the charge in one way or another. Not all landlords/ landladys are out to extort money out of their loyal tennants.

daltonmd

Freddie59 wrote: »

Agreed - but do two wrongs make a right?;) Personally I think Happy G is just using it as a convenient cover in order to placate the bould Jack and the PS Unions though. Ireland, Inc is insolvent. If it were a private entity we all know what would happen:

Redundancies on a massive scale, wage cuts, and the shredding of all contracts. But hey - this is ireland. Can't be having that now, can we?

I don't think that's the case freddie. I predict a mini budget in the next 3 months.
SW cut.
CPA revisited and cuts to basic earnings and even a rise on the 100 euro property tax.

This government have based the budget on growth - and we aint growing - which means back to the drawing board.

squod

Freddie59 wrote: »

According to Happy Gilmore during the week, the reason he cited for keeping the PS wages increment gravy train on the rails was the Croke Park agreement.

He said that these workers were granted mortgages on the basis of receiving these increments, but might not be able to meet the repayments if they didn't get them. Just another example of the bubble that Happy & Co. live in.:rolleyes:

That's correct. I said before this election it was us vs them. Now it's clear. If people want to pay, fine. If you don't then don't.

There's simply no way of paying these ridiculously massive debts without growing our economy at a faster rate then it grew during the boom years. If anything needs cutting or taxing it's the multi-billion euro PS pensions bill.

Freddie59

squod wrote: »

That's correct. I said before this election it was us vs them. Now it's clear. If people want to pay, fine. If you don't then don't.

There's simply no way of paying these ridiculously massive debts without growing our economy at a faster rate then it grew during the boom years. If anything needs cutting or taxing it's the multi-billion euro PS pensions bill.

Got it in one. But the salaries and "contracts" also need tackling. It's ludicrous.

Freddie59

daltonmd wrote: »

I don't think that's the case freddie. I predict a mini budget in the next 3 months.
SW cut.
CPA revisited and cuts to basic earnings and even a rise on the 100 euro property tax.

This government have based the budget on growth - and we aint growing - which means back to the drawing board.

Too true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the UK dole something like stg£60 a fortnight.....and it's €194 a week here. No wonder we have that deficit.

And then the protectionism practiced towards Civil Servants and the PS.

ilovesleep

Freddie59 wrote: »

Too true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the UK dole something like stg£60 a fortnight.....and it's €194 a week here. No wonder we have that deficit.

And then the protectionism practiced towards Civil Servants and the PS.

Holy ****! 60 pounds dole, a fortnight. You can't possibly live on that. Like how:
Rent?? Do they receive rent allowance over there?
Mortgage??
Food
Household cleaning chemicals, toiletries (monthly)
Bills - esb, council tax, water rates,
Heating - oil
Gas for a cooker?
Transport - bus fares
Seeking work related stuff - printing cvs, interview outfit,
Any loans taken out when in employment to pay back
Medical - HSE free for all is it?
That sum is just not possible to live on.

starbelgrade

ilovesleep wrote: »

Holy ****! 60 pounds dole, a fortnight. You can't possibly live on that. Like how:
Food
Household cleaning chemicals, toiletries (monthly)
Bills - esb, council tax, water rates,
Transport - bus fares
Seeking work related stuff - printing cvs, interview outfit,

That sum is just not possible to live on.

Not in the long term, but unlike Ireland, social welfare payments aren't designed so that you can actually make a living out of them.

ilovesleep

starbelgrade wrote: »

Not in the long term, but unlike Ireland, social welfare payments aren't designed so that you can actually make a living out of them.

I doubt very much that the majority of people unemployed in Ireland today are making a living from social welfare. It would take a very special, rare breed to make SW an occupation.

SellingJuan

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's everyone elses fault but mine blah blah blah :pac:

Its not his fault! He wasnt in charge of any of the banks. Was he? He did what he thought was right and that was to provide a home for his family to live in. Let me guess you voted FG and are now trying to justify them going back on everything they said!! Bunch of 2 faced liers who bend over and take it from the Germans and the French pffft JOKE. First country in the world to discuss their budget with the Germans!!

SellingJuan

ilovesleep wrote: »

I doubt very much that the majority of people unemployed in Ireland today are making a living from social welfare. It would take a very special, rare breed to make SW an occupation.

NO it wouldnt!! Their are loads of people who dont work simply because the DOLE is a better deal. The whole fcuking country is living of the DOle!!

daltonmd

ilovesleep wrote: »

Holy ****! 60 pounds dole, a fortnight. You can't possibly live on that. Like how:
Rent?? Do they receive rent allowance over there?
Mortgage??
Food
Household cleaning chemicals, toiletries (monthly)
Bills - esb, council tax, water rates,
Heating - oil
Gas for a cooker?
Transport - bus fares
Seeking work related stuff - printing cvs, interview outfit,
Any loans taken out when in employment to pay back
Medical - HSE free for all is it?
That sum is just not possible to live on.

They have rent allowance in the UK.
Your dole is not to repay your mortgage.
Household cleaning?
Heating and oil - use it sparingly.
Transport - use gods (your legs)
Seeking work related stuff? Dozens of organisations and community schemes available.
Loans? Again as with the mortgage, that is not what your dole is for.
medical - Free NHS.

The sum is not supposed to sustain the lifestyle you had when you worked. It's supposed to sustain you in the short term while you get a job.

mattjack

SellingJuan wrote: »

NO it wouldnt!! Their are loads of people who dont work simply because the DOLE is a better deal. The whole fcuking country is living of the DOle!!

I know loads on the DOLE , but I know nobody who wants to be on it.

starbelgrade

ilovesleep wrote: »

I doubt very much that the majority of people unemployed in Ireland today are making a living from social welfare. It would take a very special, rare breed to make SW an occupation.

The problem with the dole here is that along with other governmental policies makes the government one of the biggest competitors against businesses for lower paid workers.

Given the choice - and due to the high level of benefits the social welfare provides - many people choose not to work over working in a low paid job. The reaction to the Internship scheme would lay testament to that.

ilovesleep

daltonmd wrote: »

They have rent allowance in the UK.
Your dole is not to repay your mortgage.
Household cleaning?
Heating and oil - use it sparingly.
Transport - use gods (your legs)
Seeking work related stuff? Dozens of organisations and community schemes available.
Loans? Again as with the mortgage, that is not what your dole is for.
medical - Free NHS.

The sum is not supposed to sustain the lifestyle you had when you worked. It's supposed to sustain you in the short term while you get a job.

Household cleaning - washing powder,
fairy liquid (do you expect people to eat of mouldy dishes), A kitchen/bathroom cleaner (do you expect people to up food posioning of the worktops. Maybe one might have mice (perhaps they could do some food preparation on mouse droppings trailings left upon the worktops).

Heating and oil - use it sparingly. Yes agree
Oil still costs money though.
At home it is used very sparing and it costs 300 euro every three months.

Transport - walking. Great when you are living in a city. What about a rural area. Are people expected to walk miles and miles and miles?
Like where I am from the city is 12 miles away.

Ellis Dee

In answer to the question, I'll pay the charge, because I recognise the Government has to get money from somewhere. Anyway, it looks like any attempt at resistance will be futile, as the Government will be able to have the fine collected from people's wages or social welfare payments.:):):)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1217/breaking1.html