Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

ilovesleep

starbelgrade wrote: »

The problem with the dole here is that along with other governmental policies makes the government one of the biggest competitors against businesses for lower paid workers.

Given the choice - and due to the high level of benefits the social welfare provides - many people choose not to work over working in a low paid job. The reaction to the Internship scheme would lay testament to that.

I don't know if I buy that. I would be better off on the dole but no fcuking way am I giving up my job. I love it.

The internship is slave labour pure and simple. A full time week for their dole either 100 or 188 depending on your age + 50 euro. Part time and it may not be all that bad. Also a lot of employers are chancing their leg and taking advantage of the scheme eg tesco and shelf stacking position. A nine month internship, full time, stacking shelves. Many more pr1ckery upon the slaveships.

K-9

sensibleken wrote: »

Please correct me if Im wrong. But the lower rate of 2% USC has risen from about 3,000 to 10,000 which will reduce the amount of income tax people pay.

One website seems to indicate this will raise incomes by €3.85 a week. The property tax will cost about €2 a week. So we're still up €1.85 a week.


....maybe thats what the whole €1.85? Cóir posters were about.

Indeed plus first time buyers who bought between 2004 and 2008 got a substantial increase in tax relief worth more than this tax.

daltonmd

ilovesleep wrote: »

Household cleaning - washing powder,
fairy liquid (do you expect people to eat of mouldy dishes), A kitchen/bathroom cleaner (do you expect people to up food posioning of the worktops. Maybe one might have mice (perhaps they could do some food preparation on mouse droppings trailings left upon the worktops).

Heating and oil - use it sparingly. Yes agree
Oil still costs money though.
At home it is used very sparing and it costs 300 euro every three months.

Transport - walking. Great when you are living in a city. What about a rural area. Are people expected to walk miles and miles and miles?
Like where I am from the city is 12 miles.

:rolleyes: I think you're not getting the point ilovesleep. Your issues are irrelevant. You're unemployed, you get money from the taxpayer for nothing - it is not supposed to be easy.

Tell you what though - if you are on the dole and still using Fairy Liquid then that kinda says it for me...

mikom

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Anyway, it looks like any attempt at resistance will be futile, as the Government will be able to have the fine collected from people's wages or social welfare payments.:):):)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1217/breaking1.html

Good luck with that when the county councils have already come out and said they are unable to track down unpaid second home charges

gigino

the government is too busy forking out high public service pay ( avg 48k a year ) and pensions to worry about collecting a measly 100 euro a year from the ordinary people of Ireland who are mostly worse off than the same public service who their cheques are expected to be made out to. So morally you do not need to pay.

dxhound2005

Ellis Dee wrote: »

In answer to the question, I'll pay the charge, because I recognise the Government has to get money from somewhere. Anyway, it looks like any attempt at resistance will be futile, as the Government will be able to have the fine collected from people's wages or social welfare payments.:):):)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1217/breaking1.html

mikom wrote: »

Good luck with that when the county councils have already come out and said they are unable to track down unpaid second home charges

By definition fines will only apply after a court case so the debtor will be known. Others who stay outside the net for the time being will be caught eventually whenever their property is sold or when they die. All outstanding charges, arrears, interest and fines reamain attached to the property and it cannot change hands until they have been discharged in full.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Others who stay outside the net for the time being will be caught eventually whenever their property is sold or when they die. All outstanding charges, arrears, interest and fines reamain attached to the property and it cannot change hands until they have been discharged in full.

You die, and your son/daughter stays living in the house.
No paperwork.
How will the fees be collected again?

dxhound2005

mikom wrote: »

You die, and your son/daughter stays living in the house.
No paperwork.
How will the fees be collected again?

Are you sure your location is In the Real World?

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are you sure your location is In the Real World?

How will the fees be collected?

gigino

mikom wrote: »

You die, and your son/daughter stays living in the house.
No paperwork.
How will the fees be collected again?

there will be nobody to collect the fees , as long before that the IMF will simply stop paying 16 billion a year to support our public service. Why should our revenue commissioners be paid double what they are in N. Ireland or Frankfurt ?
Our new government if it wants to get elected will simply write off all household charges.

Not paying the household charge is ordinary peoples opportunity to tell the revenue commissioners to get lost. People who paid 9% stamp duty have paid enough property tax to last 10 lifetimes anyway.

Howjoe1

Shenshen wrote: »

It's €100, that's around €8.33 a month.

I'm finding it absolutely baffling how people can get worked up over this, yet will happily spend as much on a single drink on a night out....

Get a grip. Seriously.

so if this introduction is the start of a charge, once in place, that is likely to rise to €1000 per household in a few years time, you are happy to sit back and let it happen?

Are you not baffled that the man/woman who has lost his job and is struggling to put food on table is ask to pay the exact same amount as a TD on 80,000 per annum?

carliebaby1

black francis wrote: »

I'll pay.

The usual left-wing loonies in the Dail jumping up and down about this are a joke.

I guess they would prefer if we cut social welfare, or health or education or public service pay?

Course not - they just want to stir sh;t up without actually proposing any alternatives.

We should have had a property tax introduced decades ago, instead of depending on cyclical taxes like VAT and Stamp Duty.

This country needs to get its **** together by establishing a broad and robust tax base - water and property tax are part of this.

Ehhhhh, correct me if Im wrong (which i am not) but haven't they already done this?? :rolleyes:
And the councils are one of the worst mismanaged money squandering establishments there is. People are really struggling to pay thier bills without the completely out of touch arse-holes putting more of a squeeze on them. Only people who truly never have experienced poverty can spout an opinion like the above. How do I know this?? Because if you ever really worried (and I mean keep you awake at night worry) about the ESB or gas cutting you off, or if you ever had to ring the St. Vincent De Paul in the hopes they could give you something towards home-heating oil, then you would know that that level of poverty truly exists and therefore would be more compassionate towards people who say they cant afford to pay it. Heres a newsflash: maybe they really cant

starbelgrade

ilovesleep wrote: »

The internship is slave labour pure and simple.

The fact that people see an opportunity to work - albeit in a low paid job - as slavery, just proves my point that the dole is far too generous in this county.

squod

starbelgrade wrote: »

The fact that people see an opportunity to work - albeit in a low paid job - as slavery, just proves my point that the dole is far too generous in this county.

Now, now. Loads of unemployed people get no dole. That's €0 per week minus the €2 household charge.

For Forks Sake

mikom wrote: »

Time to install a quickly removable jacks I think........ or else shite in a bucket.

:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drozvbGvJvU

mikom

^

Caravans are exempt.

It's their culture innit.

Robdude

mattjack wrote: »

[/B]

I know loads on the DOLE , but I know nobody who wants to be on it.

This is a mostly unrelated story; but I think it's interesting.

My brother in-law always had crappy, low paying jobs....until the height of the housing bubble. That's when he landed as a real estate agent. He loved it. He made a LOT more money and got to wear a suit instead of a uniform and all that jazz. Naturally, he had no qualifications to speak of and no actual talent for the job.

When the housing market went south he couldn't sell any houses and his income dropped to virtually nothing until the company fired him. Then he collected unemployement (same as the dole basically, but this all happened in the US).

He was on unemployement for nearly two years - and the entire time he *said* he was unhappy. And he did look for jobs, a little bit, each week. But he wouldn't take a job unless it was as good, or better, than the job he had before, even though that was a completley unrealistic, unsustainable wage for the work he was doing.

He did nothing to speak of for all of those months. He collected money, stayed out drinking, slept in til all hours of the day, mooched off everyone he could for more money and constantly blamed immigrants and blacks (he was quite racist) for stealing all of the 'good jobs'. He was always quick to tell everyone how the economy was so screwed NOBODY could possibly get job.

I don't know how it works in Ireland, but in the US, eventually, you stop getting unemployeement. He bitched and complained about how unfair it was and how the economy was screwed and all that; but, amazingly, it took him four weeks to start his next job once the checks stopped coming. It was lower paying job in a factory moving boxes; it was just like every other job he had - except the one real estate job.

I know this is just one person, and this didn't even happen in Ireland; but it's a pattern I have seen in a handful of people. As long as someone else is going to support them, whether it be the government or their family or their friends or even their spouse - a lot of people are content to sit back and enjoy their freetime. And as soon as they get cut-off, they realize they are willing and able to work.

I do wonder how many people collecting benefits are in the same position. To be perfectly honest, if *I* were on the dole I'm not sure I'd be in any rush to get off of it - even if I could. The truth is, I have a lot of stuff I'd rather do than work and as long as I was getting checks, even though they are smaller than I'm used it, I'd consider the free-time worth it. If I could get on the dole in Ireland, I'd gladly stop looking for a job and collect the payements to subsidize my free time and education. I'm not saying it's *right*, but I am saying, I'd probably do it if I could.

Freddie59

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

If people in this country were to realise the trick played on us by pitting private vs public, when really we should see the whole thing as lowly paid vs highly paid, it would make me so very, very happy.

I wouldn't agree. I think people are (slowly) beginning to wake up top how the PS are actually cocooned and are beginning to ask questions about it.

Similarly, look at this "property tax" (it's household rates by the back door) yet one sector (Council Tenants) are granted a waiver!!! WTF??

Many in theseCouncil houses could more than afford to pay this tax, while those of us who did not place a burden on the state by purchasing our homes, are asked to do so.

It is completely, and utterly, surreal.

Toby Take a Bow

starbelgrade wrote: »

The fact that people see an opportunity to work - albeit in a low paid job - as slavery, just proves my point that the dole is far too generous in this county.

A person should be paid accordingly for their labour. The supposed intent with the job bridge scheme was that you would get experience in a job for two reasons: bridge the gap in your CV and gain experience while you're doing this in order to further your chances of getting a job in the future. How exactly a person needs 'experience' to stack shelves, and why they aren't getting paid the same wage as the person doing the exact same job right beside them is why people were kicking up a fuss. The companies taking the piss was actually costing you/us €50 extra week: I wonder why you're not complaining about that.

Any way I looked at my time on the dole, I was far better off doing even the most menial of jobs. Out of everybody I knew on the dole (and there were/are a lot of us) nobody got rent relief, only a few of us got medical cards (despite a couple of us having proper, long term illnesses) and other benefits were negligible. I couldn't live on the dole I was being paid and neither could anybody else I knew. For those of us still on the dole, it's difficult to impossible. Any job is going to result in more money.

Freddie59 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree. I think people are (slowly) beginning to wake up top how the PS are actually cocooned and are beginning to ask questions about it.

Most of the media coverage focuses on how the PS do this and the PS get that, but there are few articles that highlight that not everybody in the PS get the same benefits as everybody else. There are contract workers! There are different terms for people depending on when they entered the service! There are lowly paid workers and there are people getting obscene amounts! It's the generalisations that are so depressing, and it's doubly depressing when they are swallowed whole by the media and the public alike.

Freddie59 wrote: »

Similarly, look at this "property tax" (it's household rates by the back door) yet one sector (Council Tenants) are granted a waiver!!! WTF??

Many in theseCouncil houses could more than afford to pay this tax, while those of us who did not place a burden on the state by purchasing our homes, are asked to do so.

It is completely, and utterly, surreal.

It's not really surreal. You say 'many' in these council houses could afford the tax, but I'm not really sure where you'd get the figures to back up that claim. Which is understandable, because neither could the government. The 'intention' is to make it means-related further down the line, but because the government is so deeply incompetent when it comes to running the country, they introduced the tax but had to issue blanket 'waivers' regardless of means so that it wouldn't cause even more of an outcry than it already has. The idea behind council houses (and I'm aware it's not the reality) is that these people can't afford to buy houses at normal market prices. The whole system would have to be upturned in order for this to be a fair tax, and I don't see that happening anytime soon (unless the IMF decree it).

MungBean

Robdude wrote: »

This is a mostly unrelated story; but I think it's interesting.

No its not.

Interesting that is.

bitofyoung

This household charge is a fantastic tax. It is a lump sum tax and so does not change anybody's consumption or labour decisions.

starbelgrade

squod wrote: »

Now, now. Loads of unemployed people get no dole. That's €0 per week minus the €2 household charge.

That's true, but I don't think there's as many people who are unemployed, who don't get the dole and will be hit with the property tax.

I'm sure they exist & they should dispute paying this tax because unlike 99% of people moaning on about not paying it - including the 18 TDs who said they won't - they actually have a genuine reason for not doing so, beyond the rather childish argument of "I don't like this tax, I don't have to pay it, so I won't."

Toby Take a Bow

starbelgrade wrote: »

beyond the rather childish argument of "I don't like this tax, I don't have to pay it, so I won't."

It's not a childish argument to make a stand or disagree with a tax that you think is fundamentally and morally wrong.

Frank Black

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

It's not a childish argument to make a stand or disagree with a tax that you think is fundamentally and morally wrong.

It's not, but some of the posters on here (no prizes for guessing the self-thanking bunch of muppets I'm referring to) have no alternative proposals themselves on how they would attempt to address the budget deficit.

sensibleken

black francis wrote: »

It's not, but some of the posters on here (no prizes for guessing the self-thanking bunch of muppets I'm referring to) have no alternative proposals themselves on how they would attempt to address the budget deficit.

Yes they do....well kinda. Mainly it involves taxing everyone that isnt them, then something about gravy

daltonmd

Freddie59 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree. I think people are (slowly) beginning to wake up top how the PS are actually cocooned and are beginning to ask questions about it.

Similarly, look at this "property tax" (it's household rates by the back door) yet one sector (Council Tenants) are granted a waiver!!! WTF??

Many in theseCouncil houses could more than afford to pay this tax, while those of us who did not place a burden on the state by purchasing our homes, are asked to do so.

It is completely, and utterly, surreal.

Freddie I don't think it's true to say that a lot of low earning and frontline staff in the PS are coocooned - I am one of those and have seen my disposable income fall by 20% - now that's not enough I agree, but it is far from they are coocooned.

We have got to move away from the blame game and looking at who's being paid what - the previous government and this government have made the biggest mistake by leaving the basic pay untouched.

Everytime you turn on the radio you hear the union giving their take, reps for the lower paid, for the pensioners, for the poor, for the lone parents etc...

This country as a whole needs to wake up and stop clambering on the "I deserve" wagon - we don't have the money anymore - it's isn't about who deserves what - it's about - THE POT IS EMPTY.

As a PS worker it really irritates me to hear people I know complaining about the fact that they have less money - they don't seem to realise that the majority of their budgets in whatever department they work in is going on their salaries, while services are being cut in hospitals, schools etc..

So then they complain about the services, so I ask them what do they expect for a country that is bankrupt?

Do they not get that each time we borrow that the interest goes onto the existing deficit?

"But bank rescue costs caused the total exchequer deficit in the first 11 months of 2011 to soar. From €13.5 billion in the same period last year, the exchequer deficit jumped to €21.4 billion in the same period this year."
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/1203/1224308522333.html

We are borrowing money to pay the PS incomes and SW at a rate that we had when we brought in 50 billion - we don't earn that anymore.

The crisis is getting worse, not better.

Q1 2012 will tell a lot.

I spoke to a friend of mine in the retail sector - she told me that business across the sector was down on this time last year - and this time last year we had the big freeze and was the worst Christmas ever for the sector - and it's worse!!


The only thing that the government have succeeded in doing is pitting us all against each other.

Private V Public
Owner V Renter
Employed V Unemployed
Young V Old

That's what is outrageous.

Attabear

black francis wrote: »

It's not, but some of the posters on here (no prizes for guessing the self-thanking bunch of muppets I'm referring to) have no alternative proposals themselves on how they would attempt to address the budget deficit.

I finid it slightly disheartening to see that I can't disagree with government policy without coming up with a better idea myself.

tayto lover

Alternatives to Property Tax.

1. Double Tax on second homes.
2. Put 1c tax on Text messages.
3. Put 5c on alcohol.
4. Put 5c more on fags.

These are all things we can do without and even though I drink myself and also text a lot I can see no reason why these should not be increased as I don't have to drink or text. I don't have to have a 2nd home either or smoke.

smash

tayto lover wrote: »

3. Put 5c on alcohol.
4. Put 5c more on fags.

I'd agree with these, not the other 2 suggestions. I'd also add a gambling tax of 10c to lotto tickets. And a 5% winnings tax on them.

Attabear

tayto lover wrote: »

3. Put 5c on alcohol.
4. Put 5c more on fags.

smash wrote: »

I'd agree with these, not the other 2 suggestions. I'd also add a gambling tax of 10c to lotto tickets. And a 5% winnings tax on them.

What if I want to spend all my lotto winnings on alcohol and fags?