Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well then, if it is to do with equity, why are negative equity homes not exempt? Any chance of a posters answer rather than a party political one?

The honest answer is that we don't know what the waiver/exemption arrangements for the tiered system will be. The flat 100 euro is just a placeholder arrangement, and the figure is low enough that the moral/equitable considerations are limited. A flat rate property tax without waivers over the long term would be problematic, but that's not what is being implemented.

Philm_12

So when are we going to behave like Europeans (i.e. French, Greeks) and take the streets to teach all of our TD's a lesson. It doesn't matter who you vote for in this "democracy" - you get the same BS from all of them at the end of the day.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

The honest answer is that we don't know what the waiver/exemption arrangements for the tiered system will be. The flat 100 euro is just a placeholder arrangement, and the figure is low enough that the moral/equitable considerations are limited. A flat rate property tax without waivers over the long term would be problematic, but that's not what is being implemented.

Problematic from who`s point of view though? People would have a lot less problems paying €100 than €500

dvpower

Wild Bill wrote: »

The trouble'n'strife "works" for the local authority so I have no say in the matter

But I do think a massive problem in collecting this tax would be a good thing - anything that hastens the end of the "bail-out" scam and causes political problems for the current Regime of Liars is to be heartily welcomed.

I was wondering about the Irish economy "taking off like a rocket" (as per the Liar-in-Chief yesterday). A lot of rockets explode before reaching orbit - but I guess this one will merely run out of hot air at about 35km and fall back to Earth - hopefully landing on the Baldy Head. :cool:

What do you think will happen to local authority funding if this tax fails to bring in the 160m?
And do you think there would be any repercussions for your wife's employment?

gerryo777

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well when the full property tax levels are reached, people will have less to spend. less spending = jobs lost.

Perhaps they can use the wealth in their home equity to save the day though:pac:

Yea, "I want to pay for my weekly shopping, here's my front door and a window", "Sir, your change, 1 door handle and 3 screws, have a nice day"

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well when the full property tax levels are reached, people will have less to spend. less spending = jobs lost.

Perhaps they can use the wealth in their home equity to save the day though:pac:

You honestly believe there's a future scenario open to you that doesn't involve serious tax hikes? We're different to the rest of Europe somehow?

Bruthal

gerryo777 wrote: »

Yea, "I want to pay for my weekly shopping, here's my front door and a window", "Sir, your change, 1 door handle and 3 screws, have a nice day"

:D:D

gurramok

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well when the full property tax levels are reached, people will have less to spend. less spending = jobs lost.

Perhaps, but how is the public debt going to be paid? The CPA is protected and they said they will hardly touch welfare levels. Focus is on raising revenue like this new charge.

dxhound2005

Philm_12 wrote: »

So when are we going to behave like Europeans (i.e. French, Greeks) and take the streets to teach all of our TD's a lesson. It doesn't matter who you vote for in this "democracy" - you get the same BS from all of them at the end of the day.

If people disagree with the system then along with not paying taxes they can opt out fully by refusing to accept mortgage interest relief and handing back their SW card for their Child Benefit.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

Problematic from who`s point of view though? People would have a lot less problems paying €100 than €500

I'm sure people would have less problems paying no tax whatsoever, but we still need to fund the running of the state. We're not doing so at the moment.

Bullseye1

alastair wrote: »

I'm sure people would have less problems paying no tax whatsoever, but we still need to fund the running of the state. We're not doing so at the moment.

The size of the state needs to be reduced to cut its cloth. If any other company was unable to pay its wages it would reduce staff or their salaries or they would go out of business. State should be run commercially.

Wild Bill

gurramok wrote: »

Promoting the black economy is an own goal. The loss of tax revenue will have to be made up from somewhere and usually affects those who have to run a business creating employment.

Only if, post-bust, we still vote for politicians who still try to pay the bankers and bondage holders

Key fact - the current levels of debt are utterly unsustainable even in Noonan's rocket propelled fantasy land.

Most of the world reacts these days to cutting spending and taxes to trigger a recovery.

I'd advise everyone outraged by the destruction of democracy by the current Regime to fight on all fronts; house tax, charges - and buy as much as you can in the cash economy.

If we we get serious about this we can defeat them - it's the one thing they fear. :cool:

Philm_12

Shenshen wrote: »

It's €100, that's around €8.33 a month.

I'm finding it absolutely baffling how people can get worked up over this, yet will happily spend as much on a single drink on a night out....

Get a grip. Seriously.

Sorry fellow citizen, but €8.33 is not the issue - the €83.33 per month is coming down the tracks like an express train. You may find that a bit amont of an encumberance!!!

Wild Bill

dvpower wrote: »

What do you think will happen to local authority funding if this tax fails to bring in the 160m?

Jobs that should have never been created (in the Boom) will be lost.

And do you think there would be any repercussions for your wife's employment?

The house will be a lot tidier

gerryo777

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If people disagree with the system then along with not paying taxes they can opt out fully by refusing to accept mortgage interest relief and handing back their SW card for their Child Benefit.

Can we stop paying income tax, VAT, VRT, road tax and every other stealth tax there is too?

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

We could just not pay the €3.1 billion next week, but hey, we don't want to upset our german and french 'partners' in europe.

Cue the "this has nothing to do with our €15 billion deficit though" bull****e comments.

Do the maths. The shortfall exists one way or another. No one forced us to bail out the banks - for better or worse (it's worse) the blanket bank guarantee was a problem that our own, democratically elected, representatives devised. But even if we didn't have that hanging over our heads we'd be in debt regardless. No bull****.

apache6

I know i have seen it somewhere on here but can't find it - do ministers have to pay this charge?

Bruthal

gerryo777 wrote: »

Can we stop paying income tax, VAT, VRT, road tax and every other stealth tax there is too?

If you actually added up the amount of tax your weekly income pays out of whats left of it after income tax, id say it would be a good high percentage.

Bullseye1

apache6 wrote: »

I know i have seen it somewhere on here but can't find it - do ministers have to pay this charge?

I'm sure they get an allowance.:rolleyes:

alastair

apache6 wrote: »

I know i have seen it somewhere on here but can't find it - do ministers have to pay this charge?

If they're homeowners. Sure.

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

Do the maths. The shortfall exists one way or another. No one forced us to bail out the banks - for better or worse (it's worse) the blanket bank guarantee was a problem that our own, democratically elected, representatives devised. But even if we didn't have that hanging over our heads we'd be in debt regardless. No bull****.

The biggest reason for the deficit is the collapse in the domestic economy resulting in 450,000 people on the dole.
A bit of investment and getting people back to work is the only way we're going to get out of this hole, but sure **** it why bother trying when we can just keep inventing new taxes and keep the country in a downward spiral.

Bullseye1

robbie7730 wrote: »

If you actually added up the amount of tax your weekly income pays out of whats left of it after income tax, id say it would be a good high percentage.

Absolutely. This whole we are paying very little tax is nonsense. When you add all of the government taxes on items purchased every day its a substantial amount of money out of everyone's pocket to subsidise a bloated public sector which is inefficient and poorly run.

This household charge and eventual house tax is here to protect the CPA.

bgrizzley

dvpower wrote: »

I think it's a central fund. Details are on the campaign website.

Anyone know how much they have in the battle fund? Enough to lose one or two court cases maybe?
They're going to need all the fivers they can get.

tried the website last night but couldnt find a donate page or button, must be going blind in my old age. Any chance of a link?

gerryo777

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I'm sure they get an allowance.:rolleyes:

Would that come under the heading 'unvouched expenses'?

alastair

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Absolutely. This whole we are paying very little tax is nonsense. When you add all of the government taxes on items purchased every day its a substantial amount of money out of everyone's pocket to subsidise a bloated public sector which is inefficient and poorly run.

This household charge and eventual house tax is here to protect the CPA.

When you add all the taxes together, we still rank at 25 out of the 29 EU states in terms of taxation overhead. And we have a country that is in the sheeits. Low taxation is grand if you've a sustainable revenue model - we don't.

Our 'bloated' public service is half the size of Denmark's, ratio-wise.

Wild Bill

gerryo777 wrote: »

Can we stop paying income tax, VAT, VRT, road tax and every other stealth tax there is too?

Unfortunately, not so easy. Income tax is taken from most people before they get it - and if you buy taxable stuff it's part of the bill.

The Service Sector is now a huge part of the economy and ripe for cash; that's where to focus.

Also buy as much of your food at farmer's markets and max out at car-boot sales.

(I might draw up a 10 point plan to beat the Bankers and their political servants )

...and don't forget, shop in the North as much as possible, or abroad...it will cause short term pain when the EU Banker's Dictatorship and their local satraps collapse; but like cutting out a cancer it is a vital step in the recovery process.

alastair

Wild Bill wrote: »

Unfortunately, not so easy. Income tax is taken from most people before they get it - and if you buy taxable stuff it's part of the bill.

The Service Sector is now a huge part of the economy and ripe for cash; that's where to focus.

Also buy as much of your food at farmer's markets and max out at car-boot sales.

(I might draw up a 10 point plan to beat the Bankers and their political servants )

I assume you'll also be opting out of any sort of use of the public roads, mains water, health services, or any the infrastructural or service provision that taxes pay for too? No kids to educate?

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

When you add all the taxes together, we still rank at 25 out of the 29 EU states in terms of taxation overhead. And we have a country that is in the sheeits. Low taxation is grand if you've a sustainable revenue model - we don't.

We pay for GP visits, we pay for hospital stays, we pay for schoolbooks,we pay for refuse collection, we pay for..............the list goes on and on.
Now they want to discriminate against us for having the cheek to own our homes, plus there will be water charges and a 'broadcast charge' soon and any other charge they can think of.
We might as well just be slaves, work our ass off and give it all to the state.

Bullseye1

alastair wrote: »

When you add all the taxes together, we still rank at 25 out of the 29 EU states in terms of taxation overhead. And we have a country that is in the sheeits. Low taxation is grand if you've a sustainable revenue model - we don't.

Our 'bloated' public service is half the size of Denmark's, ratio-wise.

So you want a bigger public service run even more inefficiently? Do you really trust this government or local government to spend your taxes wisely?

I know we are in the shiiits. The reason we are in the shiiits is because we have had incompetent government for the past 15-20 years. Bertie in his quest for 100% employment decided to bloat the public sector numbers. And this government is not living up to its promises to get public sector spending under control. Look at the amount of times they have broken their promises already in relation to consultants fees and levels.

Wild Bill

alastair wrote: »

I assume you'll also be opting out of any sort of use of the public roads, mains water, health services, or any the infrastructural or service provision that taxes pay for too? No kids to educate?

Are you daft? Certainly not :rolleyes:

Using these helps bring forward the day when the necessary measures to restore the economy are unavoidable.

That will be in my 10-point-plan; break the f***ers!