Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

slarkin123

apache6 wrote: »

I know i have seen it somewhere on here but can't find it - do ministers have to pay this charge?

It doesn't look like it

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/26/00111.asp

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

We pay for GP visits, we pay for hospital stays, we pay for schoolbooks,we pay for refuse collection, we pay for..............the list goes on and on.
Now they want to discriminate against us for having the cheek to own our homes, plus there will be water charges and a 'broadcast charge' soon and any other charge they can think of.
We might as well just be slaves, work our ass off and give it all to the state.

Slavery? Not really. You can always move elsewhere. Problem is most of those places have higher taxation.

Bullseye1

alastair wrote: »

Slavery? Not really. You can always move elsewhere. Problem is most of those places have higher taxation.

Move elsewhere?:rolleyes:

gerryo777

alastair wrote: »

Slavery? Not really. You can always move elsewhere. Problem is most of those places have higher taxation.

People like you should move elsewhere.
Do you not there's enough people emigrating from here already.
Maybe I will and put the 4 people I employ on the dole and head off to sunnier climes.
Tool.

mod: banned.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

Slavery? Not really. You can always move elsewhere. Problem is most of those places have higher taxation.

Its all so easy, isnt it. Move elsewhere.

Bullseye1

robbie7730 wrote: »

Its all so easy, isnt it. Move elsewhere.

Sounds like Michael Noonan.

alastair

gerryo777 wrote: »

People like you should move elsewhere.
Do you not there's enough people emigrating from here already.
Maybe I will and put the 4 people I employ on the dole and head off to sunnier climes.
Tool.

Nice. Just pointing out that it's not actually slavery if you can opt out of it, and that the reality is we pay less tax than most.

Wild Bill

alastair wrote: »

Slavery? Not really. You can always move elsewhere. Problem is most of those places have higher taxation.

How about you move elsewhere if you don't like living in the growing black economy - there's a much better idea

And most places don't have higher taxation than we'll have as the Regime desperately tries to squeeze more from the shrinking pot they can actually get their grubby hands on.

I might send my 10-point-plan for National Recovery to SF to get it printed; I'm told they have boodles of printing ink

alastair

slarkin123 wrote: »

It doesn't look like it

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/26/00111.asp

Read the thread - that's not ministers homes - thats residential properties vested to ministers - state properties that may be residential, but are excluded from the charge.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

Nice. Just pointing out that it's not actually slavery if you can opt out of it, and that the reality is we pay less tax than most.

I think we should start driving on the right hand side of the road. Most other countries in europe do.

alastair

Wild Bill wrote: »

How about you move elsewhere if you don't like living in the growing black economy - there's a much better idea

And most places don't have higher taxation than we'll have as the Regime desperately tries to squeeze more from the shrinking pot they can actually get their grubby hands on.

I might send my 10-point-plan for National Recovery to SF to get it printed; I'm told they have boodles of printing ink

The comparative taxation figures are there for all to see - I think I even provided a handy link earlier in the thread.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

I think we should start driving on the right hand side of the road. Most other countries in europe do.

You were saying something about tools?
Ah no - that was your mate Gerry.

Anyway - there really isn't any equivalence in taxation of a state and which side of the road you drive on. Otherwise - great input!

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

You were saying something about tools?

You said something about reading properly?

slarkin123

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/26/00111.asp[/QUOTE]

Read the thread - that's not ministers homes - thats residential properties vest to ministers - state properties that may be residential, but are excluded from the charge.[/Quote]

Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive,

Is their home not considered residential property.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

You were saying something about tools?

EDIT: Ah no - that was your mate Gerry.

Perhaps before you tell posters to learn to read properly, become perfect yourself first.

alastair

Is their home not considered residential property.

It is, and if they own it, they pay the household charge - same as the rest of us.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

Perhaps before you tell posters to learn to read properly, become perfect yourself first.

Oh okay. I should let any old ****e slide because I get a posters name wrong? Makes as much sense as the rest of your position I guess.

bgrizzley

slarkin123 wrote: »

Is their home not considered residential property.

i'm sure its meant to be vested to the Ministers, but will probably be used as a sneaky loophole for private residences also. they do like rubbing our noses in it.

Wild Bill

alastair wrote: »

The comparative taxation figures are there for all to see - I think I even provided a handy link earlier in the thread.

Yes someone said above - read before responding :rolleyes:

I said that after the Regime is finished maxing the tax to make up for the shrinking base (being lost to the black economy) we'll have the highest effective taxation in the world.

Simple maths.

The cost of repaying the forced borrowing for the euro banking system will necessitate that.

Until the default. :cool:

alastair

Wild Bill wrote: »

Yes someone said above - read before responding :rolleyes:

I said that after the Regime is finished maxing the tax to make up for the shrinking base (being lost to the black economy) we'll have the highest effective taxation in the world.

Simple maths.

The cost of repaying the forced borrowing for the euro banking system will necessitate that.

Until the default. :cool:

Let's see the maths then - how much tax burden will the household charge, septic tank registration fee, and water charges bring to play, and how will it impact on our taxation ranking in the EU 29? Keep in mind that we floated along the bottom of those rankings even with the tax windfall that boom time stamp duty brought.

dxhound2005

Wild Bill wrote: »

Yes someone said above - read before responding :rolleyes:

I said that after the Regime is finished maxing the tax to make up for the shrinking base (being lost to the black economy) we'll have the highest effective taxation in the world.

Simple maths.

The cost of repaying the forced borrowing for the euro banking system will necessitate that.

Until the default. :cool:

Leaving the argument as to whether we are a high tax country as being in dispute it seems that a lot of people are still doing OK. I posted earlier on how many people have Pay TV, the amount being spent on foreign holidays and the amount being held in personal savings accounts in the country and the numbers saving every month. Also the amount of food that is bought and then thrown away without being eaten. I will leave you to look up the figures if you care to.

Given that 90% of people who want to work are working (there was 5% "unemployment" when we were importing hundreds of thousands of foreign workers) I don't think the country is on it's knees. I remember real poverty and hard times and what we have now is nothing like that.

Wild Bill

alastair wrote: »

Let's see the maths then - how much tax burden will the household charge, septic tank registration fee, and water charges bring to play

As you well know, like the college "registration" fee these taxes will rise exponentially after introduction.

As will income tax, road and vehicle taxes and anything else the German Finance Department can think of taxing....until the default frees us from that dictatorship. :cool:

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

Oh okay. I should let any old ****e slide because I get a posters name wrong? Makes as much sense as the rest of your position I guess.

Well you did claim a mortgage itself has the negative equity the other day. And not the property. So your not to high up on the making sense scale to be judging others.


Letting any old shite slide has no reference or connection to suggesting i said you were a tool. But you seem good at making these connections.

If you cant read a posters name 7 or 8 posts earlier, and on the same page, then maybe you should take this advice, after all, its your own.....

alastair wrote: »

try ramping up your reading skills.

geeman

alastair wrote: »

Let's see the maths then - how much tax burden will the household charge, septic tank registration fee, and water charges bring to play, and how will it impact on our taxation ranking in the EU 29? Keep in mind that we floated along the bottom of those rankings even with the tax windfall that boom time stamp duty brought.

Yes, it's an absolute disgrace people would object to paying property taxes when the rest of europe does so already.

For god sake people, it's only 8 euro per week! you'd only be buying fags or drink with that anyway!

I'm all for Phil Hogan on this one.. take the money out of peoples bank accounts if they don't comply!

Ireland needs to step up to the plate and contribute our fair share..

Signed,
The Voice Of Reason

Biggins

geeman wrote: »

Yes, it's an absolute disgrace people would object to paying property taxes when the rest of europe does so already.

For god sake people, it's only 8 euro per week! you'd only be buying fags or drink with that anyway!

I'm all for Phil Hogan on this one.. take the money out of peoples bank accounts if they don't comply!

Ireland needs to step up to the plate and contribute our fair share..

Signed,
The Voice Of Reason

1. Just because someone else does something - that don't make it right!
(Anyone that uses that pitiful reason, shows lack of judgement!)

2. THIS YEAR its roughly €8 a week!

3. This time its the home tax. What about next time and every other newly invented "we fcuk up - you pay!" tax?
Are you going to allow the government to invade your bank account every time?

What stupidity and lack of foresight!
"Voice of reason" my arse!

Wild Bill

robbie7730 wrote: »

If you cant read a posters name 7 or 8 posts earlier, and on the same page, then maybe you should take this advice, after all, its your own.....

I don't think it's Al's reading skills, while dodgy, are the real problem. It's his comprehension (and maths) seem to be the major impediment to rational debate.

Also he's a bit rude. :cool:

What is it about "the current Government debt is unsustainable and cannot be repaid" that is so difficult to understand?

And that you can't tax your way out of a recession?

geeman

Biggins wrote: »

1. Just because some one else does something - that don't make it right!
(Anyone that uses that pitiful reason, shows lack of judgement!)

2. THIS YEAR its roughly €8 a week!

3. This time its the home tax. What about next time and every other newly invested "we fcuk up - you pay!" tax?
Are you going to allow the government to invade your bank account every time?

What stupidity and lack of foresight!
"Voice of reason" my arse!

Let the banks take over the country, it's the only solution we have.

Lest we forget the bad times when people were eating potatoes and salt.
Would do the celtic cubs no harm to start being grateful for what they do have.

Signed,
The Voice Of Insanity

Biggins

Wild Bill wrote: »

...And that you can't tax your way out of a recession?

You still can’t tax your way out of a recession
Thursday, December 08, 2011

SO WHAT can be said about the budget announcements stretched out over two days earlier this week?
Given that they were preceded by Enda Kenny’s State of the Nation polemic which bore a marked resemblance to a similar one of 30 years ago when the nation was also in a bad way, one can only conclude that one Charles J Haughey is still with us, if not in body, then in spirit. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Whilst Charlie advised us that we were all living beyond our means, he continued to live the high life and still bought his bespoke shirts in Paris.

Enda Kenny also told us we were living beyond our means but did absolutely nothing to rein in the gravy train that he, his fellow politicians, current and retired, and senior public servants, continue to enjoy at our expense. It was probably one of the most unfair budgets of our times, and if 24-hour international news reports are to be believed, we will see more of the same right up to 2023.

One of the alleged objectives of the budget was to get people back spending and to get the economy growing again. One can only wonder how increasing Value Added Tax — an oxymoron if there was ever one — from 21% to 23% will stimulate the economy.

Worse still, the Government chose not to factor in the fact that sales will almost certainly reduce and the VAT take decrease as a result, in determining the alleged benefit to the economy. It just makes no sense.

Unless, of course government has more stealth taxes up its proverbial sleeve and intends tagging VAT onto anything that moves. We are close to that already and that process was restarted recently with the re-designation of bread items such as croissants.

If that continues we will then of course have no choice at all. However, in the meantime, those of us close to the border will simply go across it more frequently and those of us too far away will just not spend unless we absolutely have to. In the meantime Irish businesses suffer yet again.

Government, current and previous, have trumpeted their intention to improve the efficiencies of our hospitals and to, among other things, reduce waiting lists in our hospitals.

Yet, with one fell swoop this government with its intention to stop the use of "subsidised" public beds in public hospitals for private patients will cause dramatic increases in health insurance given the relatively low number of private hospitals and the considerable charges involved.

Government encouraged folk to buy "green" cars to help the environment. Now they are being penalised for doing do. The car retail industry is already near collapse. This will only accelerate that collapse and put yet more folk on the dole queues or on the emigration "ships". The net result is less folk to spend money on stimulating the economy.

The one single biggest expenditure item, that of public sector pay, pensions and numbers has not been addressed at all or only partially. As it stands our public servants are paid more than those in virtually all European countries including our paymasters Germany.

The bottom line in all of this is that the ordinary people of Ireland, particularly the private sector — those whom even Enda says he accepts did not cause the problem — are being asked to shoulder the real pain. Those who caused it are still getting away with it.

Taking a reported €6,000 per annum away from the likes of Bertie Ahern’s pension of €150,000 is a little like blowing into the wind. It has no impact.

The reality is that you cannot take money from peoples’ pockets and expect them to spend more.

It’s been proven time and again that you cannot tax your way out of a recession, even if you call them indirect taxes.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/you-still-cant-tax-your-way-out-of-a-recession-176470.html#ixzz1pZ944wsC

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well you did claim a mortgage itself has the negative equity the other day. And not the property. So your not to high up on the making sense scale to be judging others.


Letting any old shite slide has no reference or connection to suggesting i said you were a tool. But you seem good at making these connections.

If you cant read a posters name 7 or 8 posts earlier, and on the same page, then maybe you should take this advice, after all, its your own.....

Deary me - what a hissy fit.

It's perfectly feasible to have equity in a property, but not in the mortgage - the only question that arises is who holds the equity. Mortgage lenders are generally further inside a security buffer than the mortgage borrower. Property has a market value regardless of the circumstances of the mortgage applied to it. If a lender calls in a mortgage and reposseses a property, it's not improbable that they retain equity in the property - or might well after a short period. Property is an asset - always had been, and the tax is on the basis of the wealth in that asset - the reason this is a homeowner tax, and not a householder tax - its about the wealth anchored in the property.

gerryo777

geeman wrote: »

Yes, it's an absolute disgrace people would object to paying property taxes when the rest of europe does so already.

For god sake people, it's only 8 euro per week! you'd only be buying fags or drink with that anyway!

I'm all for Phil Hogan on this one.. take the money out of peoples bank accounts if they don't comply!

Ireland needs to step up to the plate and contribute our fair share..

Signed,
The Voice Of Reason

Do you live under a bridge or something??