Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dxhound2005

mconigol wrote: »

Your point being?

It doesn't matter a hoot if people can afford pay TV or to waste food. It's their prerogative to spend their money how they see fit. That doesn't mean the government can decide to dip their hand into someones pocket whenever they choose especially when it's on wealth which has been taxed already.

Perhaps the true "unselfish" patriots here should donate their savings if they can afford such luxuries. Otherwise their being selfish and they hate Ireland.



I think he's taking the piss (I hope :pac:)

Dip their hand into someone's pocket. I'll translate that as enact taxation legislation. Which they can and they have. The Socialist Party who oppose it have a plan for a wealth tax. So when they get in power and everyone with say €50,000 or more in savings is asked to hand over 1% or 5% every year then I will support that as properly enacted legislation.

Madpaddy79

Dear electric ireland, I regret to inform you, that due to you giving out my private information, you have now lost a customer. money is the only language these people speak, and is how I intend to deal with any other company who intends to give out my information.

Suprised their competitors are not offering "we will not give out your private information" discounts.

mconigol

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Dip their hand into someone's pocket. I'll translate that as enact taxation legislation. Which they can and they have. The Socialist Party who oppose it have a plan for a wealth tax. So when they get in power and everyone with say €50,000 or more in savings is asked to hand over 1% or 5% every year then I will support that as properly enacted legislation.

Then you're obviously unable for critical, independent thinking. Anyone who blindly supports any and all enacted legislation should not be allowed to vote in my opinion. I'd support that legislation if it was enacted....as would you.

What was suggested is exactly dipping their hands into your pockets. Your argument was that anyone with disposable income is fair game.

Of course the truth is you don't really want to help Ireland recover otherwise you would donate all your savings to help the country recover. As you say, all you need to survive are the basics. Quite a selfish attitude you have there dxhound.

dvpower

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

Suprised their competitors are not offering "we will not give out your private information" discounts.

To target customers who have shown an interest in avoiding paying their bills?:rolleyes:

mconigol

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

Dear electric ireland, I regret to inform you, that due to you giving out my private information, you have now lost a customer. money is the only language these people speak, and is how I intend to deal with any other company who intends to give out my information.

Suprised their competitors are not offering "we will not give out your private information" discounts.

It's not Electric Ireland. It's the company who manages the grid so you can't switch.

dvpower wrote: »

To target customers who have shown an interest in avoiding paying their bills?:rolleyes:

To avoid their data being shared for a purpose which wasn't intended or specified when they signed up.

So, actually to target customers who want their legal right to privacy protected and to avoid a government abusing everyone's basic need for electricity to acquire information on the population.

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

.

Or, by last Friday 1.34 million of the 1.6 million liable had NOT PAIDthe charge

dxhound2005

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

Dear electric ireland, I regret to inform you, that due to you giving out my private information, you have now lost a customer. money is the only language these people speak, and is how I intend to deal with any other company who intends to give out my information.

Suprised their competitors are not offering "we will not give out your private information" discounts.

Have a look at Section 14 of the act dealing with Data Protection and Exchange. There are more entities involved than the ESB. If you ever applied to the Department of Social Protection for one of their payments for instance they will be allowed to share your information.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

Madpaddy79

mconigol wrote: »

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

Dear electric ireland, I regret to inform you, that due to you giving out my private information, you have now lost a customer. money is the only language these people speak, and is how I intend to deal with any other company who intends to give out my information.

Suprised their competitors are not offering "we will not give out your private information" discounts.

It's not Electric Ireland. It's the company who manages the grid so you can't switch.

dvpower wrote: »

To target customers who have shown an interest in avoiding paying their bills?:rolleyes:

To avoid their data being shared for a purpose which wasn't intended or specified when they signed up.

So, actually to target customers who want their legal right to privacy protected and to avoid a government abusing everyone's basic need for electricity to acquire information on the population.

So who managed the grid?? ESB?

mconigol

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

So who managed the grid?? ESB?

ESB Networks as far as I know.

Madpaddy79

mconigol wrote: »

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

So who managed the grid?? ESB?

ESB Networks as far as I know.

Thanks, they are electric Ireland. So switching is being heard in my opinion.

Madpaddy79

dvpower wrote: »

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

Suprised their competitors are not offering "we will not give out your private information" discounts.

To target customers who have shown an interest in avoiding paying their bills?:rolleyes:

Wow, What part of fine Gael are you in? You have a hell of a lot to say on a yes vote here dude. Or are you just the household charge police??

bgrizzley

they might regret giving out those names when people are under too much pressure to pay their ESB bill......

mconigol

Madpaddy79 wrote: »

Thanks, they are electric Ireland. So switching is being heard in my opinion.

No it's separate. ESB networks are responsible for management of the network for all service providers afaik.

Electric Ireland are a service provider. Switching service provider will have no effect on liability for the charge.

dxhound2005

They have to be very specific in legislation.

In this section—

“Act of 2010” means the Value-Added Tax Consolidation Act 2010;
“relevant person” means—
(a) the Private Residential Tenancies Board established under
section 150 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004,
(b) the Electricity Supply Board established in accordance
with the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927,
(c) the Revenue Commissioners,
(d) the Minister for Social Protection, or
(e) any other person standing prescribed for the time being;
“specified enactment” means—
(a) the Tax Acts,
(b) the Capital Gains Tax Acts,
(c) the Act of 2010,
(d) the Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999, or
(e) the Act of 2003;
“tax reference number” means—
(a) in relation to an individual, that individual’s personal
public service number (within the meaning of section 262
of the Act of 2005), or
(b) in relation to a body corporate—
(i) the reference number stated on any return of income
form or notice of assessment issued to that person
by an officer of the Revenue Commissioners, or
(ii) the registration number of the body corporate for the
purposes of the Act of 2010.

xflyer

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What's the big rush to pay? I will pay in about 8 or 10 days time. And then I can forget about it until this time next year.

And this time next year the charge won't be a mere €100. Depending on your situation it could be as much as a €1000. That will be a rude reminder.

You do have to realise that this is not about collecting a mere €100 so the government can throw it down the toilet like the rest of our money. This is a fishing exercise to set up a database so they can track you for any tax they dream up. You're doing the government's job for them and paying for the privilege.

The truth is despite the threats that they will access all the other databases and change the law to suit their purposes if that turns out to be illegal. The fact is that they face a nightmare tracking down everyone. It's a massive job. They'll put hundreds of civil servants on the job. It'll be years not months of investigation. That's why all the threats of prosecution are no more than bluff.

The more of us who don't pay the better. So far it's our only outlet for protest at what's been done to us.

Gingernuts31

xflyer wrote: »

And this time next year the charge won't be a mere €100. Depending on your situation it could be as much as a €1000. That will be a rude reminder.

You do have to realise that this is not about collecting a mere €100 so the government can throw it down the toilet like the rest of our money. This is a fishing exercise to set up a database so they can track you for any tax they dream up. You're doing the government's job for them and paying for the privilege.

The truth is despite the threats that they will access all the other databases and change the law to suit their purposes if that turns out to be illegal. The fact is that they face a nightmare tracking down everyone. It's a massive job. They'll put hundreds of civil servants on the job. It'll be years not months of investigation. That's why all the threats of prosecution are no more than bluff.

The more of us who don't pay the better. So far it's our only outlet for protest at what's been done to us.

Id love to know where these figures come from. A grand you say? It won't be years to track down everyone who hasn't paid. Its only a matter of cross checking the ESB names and address's with those off the HHC database of who has and hasn't paid. Those who haven't paid can be sure of a letter by June id say.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What's the big rush to pay? I will pay in about 8 or 10 days time. And then I can forget about it until this time next year.

**News flash.**


Approx 1.34 million households will be forgetting about it this year, next year, and every other year!


This tax has failed Dx, Dv and every other blue shirt poisoning this thread with your blatant lies, scaremongering and 'party political broadcasts'

It's a non runner, due to the party you represent ballsing it up from the offset.
I would suggest going back to the drawing board, but it would seem to me that you lot have missed the boat, a political change is coming, your purposely refusing to acknowledge that though.

Less than two Weeks remain, with very close to one and a half million still to recognise this sham tax. FG are the class clowns of the E.U

Have no shame in failure lads, at least you tried.

dvpower

xflyer wrote: »

The fact is that they face a nightmare tracking down everyone. It's a massive job. They'll put hundreds of civil servants on the job. It'll be years not months of investigation. That's why all the threats of prosecution are no more than bluff.

How so?
It seems to me that once they have access to the various data sources, the data matching is a fairly simple matter. It used to be quite difficult in the distant past to match people with variations of their names and address in different databases, but the technology is quite advanced now.

I think people should be wary of taking advise that the task is too big.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

How so?
It seems to me that once they have access to the various data sources, the data matching is a fairly simple matter. It used to be quite difficult in the distant past to match people with variations of their names and address in different databases, but the technology is quite advanced now.

I think people should be wary of taking advise that the task is too big.

Spoken with true impartiality I presume?

Lol, they cannot track down every one, they don't have the database to do so, hence why they want us to register, and in doing so, creating the data base for them.

Anyone wonder why it is the govt haven't sent invoices out?

Because they haven't the foggiest as to who they should be sending them to ffs.....

Total incompetence!

billyhead

dvpower wrote: »

How so?
It seems to me that once they have access to the various data sources, the data matching is a fairly simple matter. It used to be quite difficult in the distant past to match people with variations of their names and address in different databases, but the technology is quite advanced now.

I think people should be wary of taking advise that the task is too big.

I would echo this point. I know that a large division within the Public Service has been set up to work on chasing up defaulters. I would say if you don't pay by the deadline its only a matter of time before they find out where you live

srsly78

They should just collect it through the electricity bill like they do in Greece, cut people off if they don't pay. All the internet hardcases would fall in line pretty quickly then. These new law changes facilitate exactly this kind of stuff.

squod

dvpower wrote: »

How so?
It seems to me that once they have access to the various data sources, the data matching is a fairly simple matter.

No it's not. How are they to track down non resident landlords exactly? How are they to know who owns what?

If a relative of mine has no bill in her name and has been living in the same house for 40 odd years, how will they know? Are you serious saying that all of the eligible houses of 1.8 million homes there are, will be tracked? Srly

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Lol, they cannot track down every one, they don't have the database to do so

It seems to me that the stamp duty database would be a useful primary datasource.

squod

srsly78 wrote: »

They should just collect it through the electricity bill like they do in Greece, cut people off if they don't pay. All the internet hardcases would fall in line pretty quickly then. These new law changes facilitate exactly this kind of stuff.

:rolleyes: roll eyes. Like they do in Greece.

The decision to raise the tax by adding it to household electricity bills – in effect, bypassing the Greece’s notoriously problematic revenue service in an effort to ensure compliance – drew an angry response yesterday from trade unionists at the state-run Public Power Corporation (PPC), who vowed that its members would not co-operate in cutting off the electricity accounts of property tax defaulters.

dvpower

squod wrote: »

No it's not. How are they to track down non resident landlords exactly? How are they to know who owns what?

From the records of stamp duty paid on buying the property or CAT records on transfers.

melekalikimaka

squod wrote: »

No it's not. How are they to track down non resident landlords exactly? How are they to know who owns what?

If a relative of mine has no bill in her name and has been living in the same house for 40 odd years, how will they know? Are you serious saying that all of the eligible houses of 1.8 million homes there are, will be tracked? Srly

does she own the house?

bgrizzley

they can track me down however they want, im on half the databases in the country.
A man once said this was an immoral unjust and unfair tax, and i for one agree with him and will not pay it.

My name is URL

billyhead wrote: »

I would echo this point. I know that a large division within the Public Service has been set up to work on chasing up defaulters. I would say if you don't pay by the deadline its only a matter of time before they find out where you live

I'm sure people are quaking in their boots at the prospect of that.. well, at least the feeble-minded, jittery fools are.

I'd rather pay the penalty fee than just bend over and accept any new ill-thought out charge that this shower comes up with. They're going to waste millions upon millions on chasing people who don't pay on time. I'd genuinely be surprised if at the end of all this; the overall tax-take exceeds the costs of implementing it.

squod

dvpower wrote: »

From the records of stamp duty paid on buying the property or CAT records on transfers.

And do what? Send the bill to Australia? Are you for real?

tayto lover

mconigol wrote: »

ESB Networks as far as I know.

Maybe we should all just pay a month late then. Just to let them know what we think.