Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Although exempt from the charge for this year, I'll attend the protest.

The true protest though has been taking place since Jan, and with 11 days left to go, over 1.5million have 'protested' by doing the simplest thing they can do, which is not paid.

1.5 million, 11 days to go.... 136,000 people a day to go online and register.....

C'mon now Alastair, seriously, whats the chances sir:rolleyes:?

For stopping the introduction of a property tax? Nil.

Pretending that the registration deadline is of any consequence is a mistake. Compliance over time is all that matters - this thing is happening regardless of when people actually have to pay up.

Don't register, pay later.

mikom

alastair wrote: »

I look forward to this national protest show of strength by the campaign. It should highlight the numbers actively opposed to payment. I'll be interested for sure. Capacity of the National Stadium is all of 2,000! There's clear ambition.

I can't make the National Stadium, but will be at Fine Gael conference.

So see you at the Ard Fheis.
Don't forget to wear a blueshirt so that I can recognise you.

alastair wrote: »

Pretending that the registration deadline is of any consequence is a mistake. Compliance over time is all that matters - this thing is happening regardless of when people actually have to pay up.

*listens to the sweet swish of backpedalling*

alastair

mikom wrote: »

I can't make the National Stadium, but will be at Fine Gael conference.

So see you at the Ard Fheis.
Don't forget to wear a blueshirt so that I can recognise you.

Heh. Best of luck with that.

alastair

mikom wrote: »

*listens to the sweet swish of backpedalling*

Not quite - I've consistently stated it doesn't matter what the figures are by registration deadline. Check if you like.

mikom

alastair wrote: »

Not quite - I've consistently stated it doesn't matter what the figures are by registration deadline. Check if you like.

I've got a boil that needs lancing......... maybe later.

alastair

mikom wrote: »

I've got a boil that needs lancing......... maybe later.

Nice to see you've the courage of your convictions.

mikom

alastair wrote: »

Nice to see you've the courage of your convictions.

You'll have to speak up......... I can't hear you over the pedalling.

darkmaster2

alastair wrote: »

Not quite - I've consistently stated it doesn't matter what the figures are by registration deadline. Check if you like.

If the diabolical registration numbers continue here will be a clear message to the government that we aint buying this shambles of a tax. Then it will be binned. Bye bye property tax household charge.

Don't register , never pay

squod

alastair wrote: »

For stopping the introduction of a property tax? Nil.

Unions are now backing the no campaign. (God forbid I'd side with them.) Momentum is building, a back down is logical. If the system is seen to cost more than it takes in it'll probably mean penalties from the ''troika''.

Simpler if we just sacked Hogan and got on without the thing.

alastair

darkmaster2 wrote: »

If the diabolical registration numbers continue here will be a clear message to the government that we aint buying this shambles of a tax. Then it will be binned. Bye bye property tax household charge.

Don't register , never pay

It's not actually up for sale - so not sure if they care about it's appeal one way or another.

Don't register, pay later.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

For stopping the introduction of a property tax? Nil.

Over 1.5 million Irish Tax payers so far disagree with you Alistair.

The same Tax payers this Govt claim to represent.

The sooner this crock of cr@ap is knocked on the head, and more money being wasted on it the better for all concerned.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

It's not actually up for sale - so not sure if they care about it's appeal one way or another.

Don't register, pay later.

You spoke of the negative equity as a minority.

You are in a minority with regard to this new tax.

darkmaster2

alastair wrote: »

It's not actually up for sale - so not sure if they care about it's appeal one way or another.

Don't register, pay later.

They are doing a rather bad job of selling their sham tax eh?, I'm still not buying it, and I have yet to meet anyone who will be paying.

Don't register , never pay

alastair

Ghandee wrote: »

Over 1.5 million Irish Tax payers so far disagree with you Alistair.

The same Tax payers this Govt claim to represent.

Heh - that's why the household charge campaign booked a 2,000 capacity venue for it's national protest? Something's not quite right there.

Biggins

If anyone needs explanations of various terms referred to in this thread, there is video explanations on www.contact.ie
For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri1PFJ5vTTk

On 31st March, €3.1 billion will be paid to the Irish Central bank as a result of a promissory note that was written by the Irish government. Over the next 20 years, a total of €30.6 will be paid, with a further €16 billion of interest which will need to be borrowed by the state, leading to even further spending cuts.

This video explains what a promissory note is, how the Emergency Lending Assistance came about, and just how much this illegitimate and unsustainable debt will cost the Irish state.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

Heh - that's why the household charge campaign booked a 2,000 capacity venue for it's national protest? Something's not quite right there.

The numbers against this, is not represented by the numbers that go to protests.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

You spoke of the negative equity as a minority.

You are in a minority with regard to this new tax.

In having paid already? Sure.
But let's see how many actually refuse to pay when push comes to shove.

Don't register, pay later.

monkeypants

gurramok wrote: »

Lower wages in the UK for a lot of jobs. Its not all one way traffic as you put it.

Much lower cost of living too. I've lived in Northern Ireland and in southern England and I had a better quality of life and more money in my pocket that I do now in the Republic.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

In having paid already? Sure.
But let's see how many actually refuse to pay when push comes to shove.

Don't register, pay later.

Im realistic, i see a surge happening myself.

The point is, you see this as a fair and justifyable tax. I dont. And the majority dont.

srsly78

I do shopping etc in London when on business trips, cheaper than Dublin. Same with most stuff except rent I find.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

The numbers against this, is not represented by the numbers that go to protests.

Ah right. So you're simply attributing the standard Irish inability to sort things out in a timely fashion as the 'refuse to pay' camp?

That's handy.

Did you see how timely we responded to free money (the SSIA scheme)?

alastair

monkeypants wrote: »

Much lower cost of living too. I've lived in Northern Ireland and in southern England and I had a better quality of life and more money in my pocket that I do now in the Republic.

I've also lived in N.I and London. I'm not conning myself that income taxation and rates/water charges cost me less than here.

dvpower

mikom wrote: »

I can't make the National Stadium, but will be at Fine Gael conference.

Joe Higgins was on this morning saying that he estimated that 20,000 people had attended protests around the country and this was an indicator of the strength of opposition to the tax (he didn't take into account that its a lot of the usual suspects attending many protests, but I wouldn't hold Higgins to a very high standard, so I'll take his figure of 20k).

What numbers are expected at the two upcoming events? I can't imagine that the National Stadium event will draw big numbers - - I think the venue only holds 2000, so the real test will be the Ard Fheis.

What numbers are the anti charge campaign expecting for this and what would be considered a success?

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

Ah right. So you're simply attributing the standard Irish inability to sort things out in a timely fashion as the 'refuse to pay' camp?

That's handy.

Did you see how timely we responded to free money (the SSIA scheme)?

You said 2000 capacity venue, which suggests your saying large numbers not being happy dont exist.

You can see i said i would expect a surge. Did you miss that?

Ghandee

Originally Posted by greenpilot
11 days of false propaganda ahead. The head of the "Household Charge Collection Agency," Jackie Maguire has been peddling statistics like there is no tomorrow. She thinks that over 1.4 million households will register before the end of March. Here are some interesting details:

1. Jackie Maguire (JM) says the household charge website activity is up 2 fold
FACT :The site traffic is in decline month on month
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/householdcharge.ie#

alexa is like the TAM or JNLR of web traffic. external audience size
sampling based on browser toolbar user stats.

2. JM says that registrations have seen “significant increase over the last
ten days”
not true

average day rate prior to Feb 20th was 2115
average day rate 20 – 27 Feb was 2937

That is a 0.3 fold increase. which is not significant.

3. JM & morning ireland talk of 1.6M needing to register. but
previously JM said and knows it is 1.8M
so they are not 1.4M off the total they are 1.66M off

4. JM says general trend is upward. true. but it only amounts to 30%
increase on extremely flat figures.
if there was a 1000% increase (ten fold) from now to March 31st then
there would still be 700,000 not registered.
And right now they have a 30% increase.

Projected non registered at current rate is 1,596,562 source
http://cahwt.net/calc/

***

Don't give into the FG-Labour hype and propaganda. You saw where that got you in the last election.

Special exemptions to pay advisers €150,000 a year, Ruairi Quinn fiddling his mileage expenses, James Reilly paying €604 on coffee machines for his offic as outlined here:

James Reilly spent €624 of taxpayers’ money on two deluxe Bewley’s coffee machines — one for each of his offices. One has been installed in his office in the health department at Hawkins House while the other sits in his Leinster House rooms.

His spokesman said the minister needed the machines because he worked long hours and the Dáil restaurant and department canteen were not always open.

* He has received tax breaks for maintaining his 13-bed family mansion in Co Offaly. He received tax breaks for six years running to help pay for renovations to the three-storey Laughton House, which is surrounded by 150 acres of farm and woodland.

Oh and by the way, the chairman of the RTÉ board is Tom Savage. Tom who is married to Terry Prone and is Anton Savage of Today FM's Dad is also a director of "The Communications Clinic."

"So what" you might say.

Well, here's what:

James Reilly, the health minister, paid a public relations company €15,000 for advice on health reform as well as for speech writing advice, his office confirmed.

He paid the money last year to the Communications Clinic, whose directors are PR consultant Terry Prone and Tom Savage, the chairman of the RTÉ board.


**

I wonder if the Chairman of the board of RTÉ worries about whether or not a customer of his is criticised on RTÉ programmes?

I wonder if Terry Prone is nervous of criticising a valued customer of hers in her columns in the Examiner or when she is giving her expert opinion on various RTÉ programmes?

Vote NO to the household charge and stop funding this casino.

For anyone who might have missed it last night:pac:

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

You said 2000 capacity venue, which suggests your saying large numbers not being happy dont exist.

You can see i said i would expect a surge. Did you miss that?

I'm saying (again) that the ambition of the no campaign is reflected in the capacity they expect for their national protest. I think they're rather more realistic than some in this thread. An intention of over a million to not pay wouldn't be reflected in such modest campaign ambitions.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

I'm saying (again) that the ambition of the no campaign is reflected in the capacity they expect for their national protest. I think they're rather more realistic than some in this thread. An intention of over a million to not pay wouldn't be reflected in such modest campaign ambitions.

You could be right, but the vast majority of the people that wont register, wont be at protests either. To protest, they simply have to not register.

smash

The radio this morning said only 250,000 of the 1.6m eligible have paid to date.

Bruthal

smash wrote: »

The radio this morning said only 250,000 of the 1.6m eligible have paid to date.

It still would not surprise me to see a big surge of sheep into the slaughter house.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

You could be right, but the vast majority of the people that wont register, wont be at protests either. To protest, they simply have to not register.

Equally - to not bother getting off their arses - they don't register either. My expectation is that the numbers actually intending to not pay, are small. Smaller than those of us who decided to pay up early/on time. I'm currently late with my TV licence payment - I usually am, so am as guilty of the standard Irish tardiness as the next man.

To be honest - I'd have been more surprised if a majority registered by the deadline - even if everyone LOVED the idea of the tax.