Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

fattyplumps

Shenshen I couldn't agree more with you.

Frank Black

Wild Bill wrote: »

Who's this "we" :rolleyes:.

You tell me - thought you were the one suggesting it?

Wild Bill wrote: »

Persisting with policies based on reality-denial may help you feel good but it won't avert doom. .

See, I was right.

Wild Bill

Wild Bill wrote: »

Who's this "we" :rolleyes:

Persisting with policies based on reality-denial may help you feel good but it won't avert doom.

Remember: the first step to recovery is to remove the cancer.

Which is?

I'd love to see how many of you anti-household charge individuals even agree with each other with what should be done instead.

Some want the welfare/PS bills sliced - which definitely won't go over with an awful lot of the anti-HHC brigade!

Some want the 'Wealthy' to pay it off instead. I think when some people here on about 40-50k PA realise that they're now the ones who are being considered 'wealthy', attitudes will change.

Biggins

Did I get the figure right from RTE news - around 260,000 have only registered up to 4pm yesterday?
Think thats what the latest numbers are quoted at one o'clock news.

Peanut2011

Ok, I was going to refrain from posting here but with so many people going with the YES vote, which I do not understand, I must post.

I guess the first questions to any YES supported should be asked if they are "required" to pay the charge? Secondly, I would love to know in what financial circumstance they are since they don't see this as an issue.

All that being said, I do agree that the country needs to do something to pull out of the recession, however further taxing the population who is already not spending as they can't afford will only do further damage. I do remember our government stating this while in opposition themselves. It is interesting how things change when they are looking so save their own wages and interests.

How many recent reports have showed the excessive wages and expenses by the government??

Also, have we forgotten the fees they paid on consultation for the LUAS line to the airport, developing of the underground..... All of these costs us hundred of millions and yet we have nothing to show for them.

Furthermore, the underground station a Huston (if i remember correctly) has been given a go ahead, even though the underground network idea has been scrapped at this stage. Have we forgotten the e-voting machines???

Let's get the government spending or should I say WASTING and OVERSPENDING in order before we hit the taxpayers again.

I have no problem paying my own way, but the bull I am being fed by these morons will not fly. Do they honestly think people are that thick? I guess they must, after all, majority of people voted them in to screw us over! I for one am glad to say I DID NOT!

They want the €100 now for "local services" which really don't exist any more. The estate I am in is looked after the Management Company. When they toss them out I will pay the €100 gladly!

And before you start saying the local services include water, sewage, access roads....... Well guess what? Water charge is coming in! I pay ROAD TAX for the roads and I guess sewage can be taken out of the income taxes I already pay.

So what exactly are these fees for? The overinflated wages in county councils! Board buddies, sorry I mean members.... The commercial water charges already exist and county councils can not collect them, so in order for them to continue in their fairy land, they will hit households instead.

This government has not done anything to improve the damage done by Fianna Fail and it is time government stopped hiding behind these mistakes when ever they make "though" (screw you) decision.

I will say now, no matter what I am not paying this fee!

storker

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Bearing in mind that the top 5% of taxpayers are paying a bit under 50% of all income tax receipts, who should pay? Should the top 5% be liable for 75%? Or 100%?

This statistic gets trotted out time and time again, but it's meaningless because (1) people are taxed as individuals, not as a group and (2) it's never accompanied by a percentage figure for how much of all income is earned by that same 5%.

Stork

Biggins

It just as important - if not more I suspect - that the government gets you to register your home than just pay the €100.
Once they have your name and address, they have you by the balls with less work for them to make you cough up.

Wild Bill

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Which is?

I'd love to see how many of you anti-household charge individuals even agree with each other with what should be done instead.

The house tax is only one part of the euro bank payments scam; do I have to explain everything :rolleyes:

To save myself time and effort I've reached back to an earlier part of this thread and extracted some reality-based wisdom

Wild Bill wrote: »

The way to tackle external debt is to cut spending to match our revenue - something we should have done in 2008/2009. Instead we kept spending and, with an EU gun to our head, took on unlimited private banking debt.

We must cut spending to the level of a primary surplus; then get serious about the debt issue.

That is: default or write-down.

It will happen anyway, increasing taxation to try to repay the debts won't, and can't, work. So whether you think the immediate pain is too great is irrelevant; we should have got it over with in 2009 - instead we're waiting till the economy is destroyed, state assets sold off and letting unaffordable primary public current expenditure (funded by even more debt) carry on - and trying to squeeze more tax out of a stagnant economy to pay for it.

The sooner we face reality and cut out the cancer of Banker Debt (default) and match non debt-repayment spending to current taxation - the sooner we can start to recover.

There is no alternative; by delaying the default it will be bigger, and the economy worse, than if we act now.

There is no easy way out, but pretending we can repay the Bank debts isn't a way out at all.

Wild Bill

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Ok, I was going to refrain from posting here but with so many people going with the YES vote, which I do not understand, I must post.

25% isn't that many. That's 75% not going with the "yes" vote

force eleven

I laugh grimly when the FG/Lab politicians go on radio and deny that it is a charge to help pay back unsecured gambling debts by zombie banks. Of course it is. Whether or not it is directly or indirectly going to them, is irrelevant. There is a 160 million euro hole to be filled if it isn't, and they'll get that elsewhere.

Also, registering for this, means you are signing up to the property tax from next year, the details of which are unknown. You could be paying 300-500 euros next year, maybe more,who knows? But once you're in, they have you for that,thanks for doing that work for them.

I do not like paying rates or taxes, but I do it, once it is clear they are being used for services and go to balance the countries budget, as it normally would, I can accept that grudgingly. But not while there are billions of euros going into pockets of people who must be absolutely delighted the good ole Irish taxpayer is footing that bill. We have NO obligation as a country to pay back unsecured debt. If the government had the balls, but they don't, they would have played hardball with this a very long time ago. Too many friends in high places, too much influence on the ministers of the day. The system stinks.

Rant over, time for another lie down

Wild Bill

Biggins wrote: »

It just as important - if not more I suspect - that the government gets you to register your home than just pay the €100.
Once they have your name and address, they have you by the balls with less work for them to make you cough up.

Yep. Same principle as the TV tax - best never to buy a licence in the first place and you've a 99% chance of never being caught.

I've never been - I refuse to pay for RTE on both aesthetic and moral grounds

tbh

Peanut2011 wrote: »

I pay ROAD TAX for the roads

No you don't. Road taxes all go into the central exchequer. So if you think about it, Car taxes have exactly the same relationship with roads as the house tax has with local services. And yet you pay your car tax, don't you? So why the inconsistency?

Peanut2011

Wild Bill wrote: »

25% isn't that many. That's 75% not going with the "yes" vote

Thank god! I still don't understand where do these 25% come from! Are they that blind?

Wild Bill

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Thank god! I still don't understand where do these 25% come from! Are they that blind?

Bothered and bewildered at least!

donalg1

force eleven wrote: »

I laugh grimly when the FG/Lab politicians go on radio and deny that it is a charge to help pay back unsecured gambling debts by zombie banks. Of course it is. Whether or not it is directly or indirectly going to them, is irrelevant. There is a 160 million euro hole to be filled if it isn't, and they'll get that elsewhere.

Also, registering for this, means you are signing up to the property tax from next year, the details of which are unknown. You could be paying 300-500 euros next year, maybe more,who knows? But once you're in, they have you for that,thanks for doing that work for them.

I do not like paying rates or taxes, but I do it, once it is clear they are being used for services and go to balance the countries budget, as it normally would, I can accept that grudgingly. But not while there are billions of euros going into pockets of people who must be absolutely delighted the good ole Irish taxpayer is footing that bill. We have NO obligation as a country to pay back unsecured debt. If the government had the balls, but they don't, they would have played hardball with this a very long time ago. Too many friends in high places, too much influence on the ministers of the day. The system stinks.

Rant over, time for another lie down

No it doesnt as you will be paying the property tax regardless of whether or not you register for this.

Ghandee

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Hey wait a minute. You've set the rules here - isn't it up to you to prove that they didn't commit the robbery?

No, I think you'll find that in a court of law, the onus is on a court to find defendant guilty? Or have I that one wrong too?

black francis wrote: »

Don't be trying to drag the thread off topic now - you made a stupid point about SF being whiter than white and got called out on your bs.

You should leave it at that before you embarrass yourself further.

Hang on here a minute, i asked you a question ref Sinn Fein in expense scandals, you came out with the claim that Sinn Fein robbed the Northern bank.
That's a very serious allegation, you've accused a political party, (as a whole) on taking part in robbing a bank, a political party that very well could be in govt after the next elections (as a coalition or otherwise)
Then when asked to provide a link to back up your claim, completely side stepped it?

Provide me with a link, and we'll discuss it further.
If you cant provide one, well we will just resign your claim to the BS bin.

dxhound2005

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Thank god! I still don't understand where do these 25% come from! Are they that blind?

It's actually 38% Yes and 62% No excluding the Dont Knows and the Not Applicables. Other scientific polls predict 58% compliance. Boards polls are not reliable, for instance the Who would you vote for in a 2012 general election poll gave Sinn Fein 37% making it the largest party in the country 9% ahead of Fine Gael in second place. Scientific polls have given Sinn Fein between 18% and 25% in recent times and I would accept those as being more reliable.

Peanut2011

tbh wrote: »

No you don't. Road taxes all go into the central exchequer. So if you think about it, Car taxes have exactly the same relationship with roads as the house tax has with local services. And yet you pay your car tax, don't you? So why the inconsistency?

Well if I get to the stage where I can't afford the car, which I have already got to and got rid off the car, I stop paying the car tax... I know that charge is there when I decided to buy the car and if I choose to buy than it's up to me to afford it.

With the household charge..... Not the same situation!

As I said, if they sorted out the waste than we could talk about this again. Expecting us to pay more for all the wasteful decisions they took and made without ever having anyone responsible for them is a bit rich.

What happened to abolishment of Seanad they promised within the first 100 days? How much extra did they pay for early retirement of so many civil servants?? Why even give that choice? The wage is cut, deal with it! Isn't that what happens in private sector that they all wanted to benchmark themselves during boom years!

C'mon now, people need to get themselves educated on what our government is doing instead of just trusting your local TD that will turn up for an envelope opening just to get extra votes!

Wild Bill

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Which is?

I'd love to see how many of you anti-household charge individuals even agree with each other with what should be done instead.

Some want the welfare/PS bills sliced - which definitely won't go over with an awful lot of the anti-HHC brigade!

Some want the 'Wealthy' to pay it off instead. I think when some people here on about 40-50k PA realise that they're now the ones who are being considered 'wealthy', attitudes will change.

I guess we are agreed on one thing; this house tax is extortion by an illegitimate Government with no mandate. :mad:

I bet the pro-German-banks'-gambling-loss-reparations crew don't agree on everything else either - except that we should let ourselves be screwed by an illegitimate Quisling Regime working for the German banking system.

I've provided an alternative that is unpleasant; remove the cancer and then recover.

Your side thinks pretending the cancer isn't there will make it vanish. :rolleyes:

The Tyre Dude

I won't be paying as I want to for once try and be part of active protest to illustrate to this Govt that they have taken enough from Joe public and given far too much to those who least deserve it. I concede that in time a property tax may be inevitable and justifiable, but the timing of this is just wrong for what is a tiny gain for Revenue.

Wild Bill

Wild Bill wrote: »

I guess we are agreed on one thing; this house tax is extortion by an illegitimate Government with no mandate. :mad:

I bet the pro-German-banks'-gambling-loss-reparations crew don't agree on everything else either - except that we should let ourselves be screwed by an illegitimate Quisling Regime working for the German banking system.

I've provided an alternative that is unpleasant; remove the cancer and then recover.

Your side thinks pretending the cancer isn't there will make it vanish. :rolleyes:

Ah, you're a lunatic.


Makes sense now.

Frank Black

Ghandee wrote: »

Hang on here a minute, i asked you a question ref Sinn Fein in expense scandals, you came out with the claim that Sinn Fein robbed the Northern bank.
That's a very serious allegation, you've accused a political party, (as a whole) on taking part in robbing a bank, a political party that very well could be in govt after the next elections (as a coalition or otherwise)
Then when asked to provide a link to back up your claim, completely side stepped it?

Provide me with a link, and we'll discuss it further.
If you cant provide one, well we will just resign your claim to the BS bin.

Link - www.sinnfeinareabunchofmurderingscrumbags.com

www.andtheyrobbankstoo.ie


www.nottomentionprintercartridges.ie

tbh

Peanut2011 wrote: »

What happened to abolishment of Seanad they promised within the first 100 days?

Where are you getting this stuff from? there was no promise to abolish the Seanad within 100 days, the very idea is ludicrous. That's twice now you've posted something that has no basis in reality, which is ironic given your comment that:

C'mon now, people need to get themselves educated on what our government is doing

Wild Bill

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Who would you vote for in a 2012 general election poll gave Sinn Fein 37% making it the largest party in the country 9% ahead of Fine Gael in second place.

We'd probably be in a much better place today had that happened. At least we'd have a democratically legitimate Government instead of a Quisling Regime. :cool:

Wild Bill

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Ah, you're a lunatic.

That's extremely impolite. And it isn't an argument.

We went through this in detail yesterday; I even got the lead pro-Regime poster to concede that by his own logic "Ireland isn't a democracy".

I'm not sure, given your bad manners and abusive tone, that I'm prepared to take the same amount of time and effort to educate you. :cool:

tbh

Wild Bill wrote: »

We'd probably be in a much better place today had that happened. At least we'd have a democratically legitimate Government instead of a Quisling Regime. :cool:

So - the people vote in an fair and open election, and you refuse to accept the outcome of that election because the choice of the majority wasn't your choice?

Biggins

tbh wrote: »

Where are you getting this stuff from? there was no promise to abolish the Seanad within 100 days, the very idea is ludicrous. That's twice now you've posted something that has no basis in reality, which is ironic given your comment that:

*cough*

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/5%20Point%20Plan%20A4%20Brochure%20WEB.pdf

5 Point Plan to Get Ireland Working - Fine Gael
Section 4 - no. 15: Abolishing the Seanad – Reforming the Dail.

There is no 100 days in this document but abolish it they did state in this alone, was stated.

---

Fine Gael has a plan to get Ireland working. If elected to Government Fine Gael will put in place a comprehensive ‘First 100 Days’ strategy, Fine Gael Leader Enda Kenny announced today (Wednesday).

• Sweeping political reforms including measures to cut the number of TDs, abolish the Seanad, extend Dáil sitting times, introduce car-pooling for Ministers, and cutting pay for Ministers and senior civil servants;

http://www.finegael2011.com/pressreleases.asp?artId=5E5A57

tbh

Biggins wrote: »

*cough*

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/5%20Point%20Plan%20A4%20Brochure%20WEB.pdf

5 Point Plan to Get Ireland Working - Fine Gael
Section 4 - no. 15: Abolishing the Seanad – Reforming the Dail

where's the promise to do it within 100 days?

seamus

Biggins wrote: »

*cough*

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/5%20Point%20Plan%20A4%20Brochure%20WEB.pdf

5 Point Plan to Get Ireland Working - Fine Gael
Section 4 - no. 15: Abolishing the Seanad – Reforming the Dail

Ah now Biggins. That's the five-year plan, not the 100 days' plan

Wild Bill

tbh wrote: »

So - the people vote in an fair and open election, and you refuse to accept the outcome of that election because the choice of the majority wasn't your choice?

As I said - we had this debate on this very thread, yesterday.

And we won hands down.

Please don't ask me to join the dots all over again.