Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Gingernuts31

Wild Bill wrote: »

We'd probably be in a much better place today had that happened. At least we'd have a democratically legitimate Government instead of a Quisling Regime. :cool:

How do you know? How do you know Sein Fein wouldn't have done pretty much the same as the current government and taken what the EU/IMF gave them still payed back the bondholders etc. You don't know for sure they would have done ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY. At the end of the day the country got into this mess because the banks were not regulated properly, FF ran it into the ground with corruption and very bad decisions. Is everyone forgetting that Brian cowen and the later brian lehinan said 2no we are not getting a bailout its all nonsence" Then a week later they are signing papers for it? fcuk even Micheal Martin apologized for the "mistakes" FF made over the last decade. You all forget what got us here and bad mouth the people who are trying to fix it.

Frank Black

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Which is?

I'd love to see how many of you anti-household charge individuals even agree with each other with what should be done instead.

Ah now, that's a bit unfair - I'm pretty sure they're all agreed that it needs to be someone else who pays .

Ghandee

black francis wrote: »

Link - www.sinnfeinareabunchofmurderingscrumbags.com

www.andtheyrobbankstoo.ie


www.nottomentionprintercartridges.ie

Good lad Francis

That response will really help your cause.Very mature.

We can call BS on your claim so. :rolleyes:

Biggins

tbh wrote: »

where's the promise to do it within 100 days?

seamus wrote: »

Ah now Biggins. That's the five-year plan, not the 100 days' plan

Again, as above - from their own site:

Fine Gael has a plan to get Ireland working. If elected to Government Fine Gael will put in place a comprehensive ‘First 100 Days’ strategy, Fine Gael Leader Enda Kenny announced today (Wednesday).

Quote:
• Sweeping political reforms including measures to cut the number of TDs, abolish the Seanad, extend Dáil sitting times, introduce car-pooling for Ministers, and cutting pay for Ministers and senior civil servants;

http://www.finegael2011.com/pressrel...p?artId=5E5A57

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

Ah now Biggins. That's the five-year plan, not the 100 days' plan

They promised to, within 100 days of being in power; publish legislation to abolish the Seanad and reduce Dail numbers by 20. Neither of which seem to be on the table at all now.

Biggins

My name is URL wrote: »

They promised to, within 100 days of being in power; publish legislation to abolish the Seanad and reduce Dail numbers by 20. Neither of which seem to be on the table at all now.

Yep.
When they later did a u-turn on the abolishment, it became instead...

"Fine Gael have said that with 100 days of being elected to office, we will hold a referendum on the future of the Upper House."

http://lauramcgonigle.ie/2011/03/diary-of-a-seanad-candidate/

That hasn't happened either!
Surprise!

storker

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

How do you know? How do you know Sein Fein wouldn't have done pretty much the same as the current government and taken what the EU/IMF gave them still payed back the bondholders etc. You don't know for sure they would have done ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY. [...snip stuff about FF that I agree with...] You all forget what got us here and bad mouth the people who are trying to fix it.

The trouble is that the people who are "trying to fix it" are behaving just the same as the people who got us here. That's not the mandate they received from the electorate. You're correct to say that we don't know what SF would have done were they in power, but we do know now about FF, FG and Labour, don't we?

We know only too well...

Stork

squod

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

You all forget what got us here and bad mouth the people who are trying to fix it.

FG played along with FFs plan to bankrupt the state. They are part of the problem and many of their members should be in jail for this.

Wild Bill

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

How do you know? How do you know Sein Fein wouldn't have done pretty much the same as the current government

I can't be certain obviously, but their attitude to Ireland, the EU and the banks would make me inclined to believe they'd act rather differently than the Establishment parties that caused the current mess.

They don't have the same huge pensions to mind for starters. And they seem to appreciate that the current policy won't work because it can't work.

Those of can do the sums and dismiss the desperate wishful thinking would have no option but to adopt policies grounded in reality.

So, yeah, we'd almost certainly be in a better situation in both economic and democratic terms.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

There is no link - no decision has been made on the pricing for the property tax. There is speculation and there are recommendations from various bodies - that's all.
There is an ongoing consultation, that you might want to contribute to (or not).

Maybe it will only be 50e next year :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Gingernuts31

storker wrote: »

The trouble is that the people who are "trying to fix it" are behaving just the same as the people who got us here. That's not the mandate they received from the electorate. You're correct to say that we don't know what SF would have done were they in power, but we do know now about FF, FG and Labour, don't we?

We know only too well...

Stork

I know we should just tell the bondholders to f off and that the government is afraid too because of warnings from the ECB. But I have seen things getting better slowly, there has been job creation as well as job losses' They need to try sustain jobs that are there was well as create new ones through investment. In all honesty i've been expecting utterly savage budgets but from where im standing they haven't been that bad. Its just people are overly sensitive to paying taxes we by right should have been paying long before now since we are the only country in europe without water rates and property taxes.

Its long overdue at this stage. You see people love Sein Fein now because they are pretty much against anything the governemt does which is what all oppisition is doing by Sein are going all out. Guaranteed if they get voted into power next nothing will change. One thing I am sure of tho is that we might almost be out of the recession by the time the next election comes around.

tayto lover

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

The point is they're well able to afford going without medical cards, just like the anti-shower are well able to afford the property charge. All they want to do is protest for the sake of it.

Sure you can't bate a bit of an auld protest Ted.

dvpower

Biggins wrote: »

Yep.
When they later did a u-turn on the abolishment, it became instead...

"Fine Gael have said that with 100 days of being elected to office, we will hold a referendum on the future of the Upper House."

http://lauramcgonigle.ie/2011/03/diary-of-a-seanad-candidate/

That hasn't happened either!
Surprise!

I think its been established that they planned to publish draft legislation in the first 100 days. I think they also said they would hold the referendum in the first year.
They haven't delivered on either of these, but I think you're guilding the lily in saying that they did a u-turn and published the new plan on the website of some Cork councillor.

tayto lover

gurramok wrote: »

Its laughable the no side posting links from the Daily Fail to back up their arguments. Why not post from The Sun while you're at it? :rolleyes:

Probably cos the Indo lies in the Govt's favour.

Gingernuts31

squod wrote: »

FG played along with FFs plan to bankrupt the state. They are part of the problem and many of their members should be in jail for this.

Who was in power back then and who made all the decisions then? Didn't Fein Gael act back then just like Sein Fein are acting now? The big difference now is that there isn't a hugh pension pot sitting there waiting to be raided and billions just floating around. Fein Gael are trying to fix Fianna failure's cock ups. Liek I said evem martin said sorry for his party fcuking up the country, he didn't blame Fein Gael did he? No he didn't.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe it will only be 50e next year :rolleyes::rolleyes:

No. It'll certainly be more than €100

Phill Ewinn

donalg1 wrote: »

The people that voted for FF are the ones that voted to ruin the country, was pretty obvious they were running the country into the ground yet people kept voting for them. Whoever was voted in to power in the last election pretty much had their policies pre determined by the EU IMF anyway so they could have actually got a few lads from on here and voted them in and sure we would still be debating the household charge now.

How so? FG are implementing FFs ploicies. Policies they supported while in opposition.

No way would anyone in their right minds agree to FFs policy decisions. The reality is that FF and FG conspired against the citizen. They're as guilty as any FF or Green party member.

Ghost Buster

My mate who lives in social housing has promised not to walk on foot paths, to shut his eyes at night so as not to avail of street lighting, to stop visiting the library and to put out his own house fires. If home owners alone must pay for this he has no intention of scabbing off us. Hes great like that.

AboutTwoFiddy

dvpower wrote: »

No. It'll certainly be more than €100

Exactly. The tax is an introductory offer, get the public to accept a token amount of €100 and if nobody complains and everyone pays it they'll increase it to big money over the coming years. We'll be looking at €1k in a few years time unless we put our foot down now.
Sure look at the way they've increased the taxes on low emission cars, they get a huge whack in VRT and then decide that their motor tax isn't high enough.

ebixa82

So with 10 days left only 40% of people on claim they won't pay.

Considering the demograph and general political views of the majority of people who vote here, wouldn't it be fair to say that No % in the general population would be considerably lower?

tayto lover

danmanw8 wrote: »

That would appear to be the "logic" alright.

Irony is they'll all pay more than the €100 for 2012 as the penalties and interest kick in +Fines on top if they end up in court
Also, can't sell a property with outstanding charges without discharging the liability.

That's it now. Try and scaremonger them into paying. BUT if it didn't work for Sly Phil do you think it will work for you ?

If there was 20 year instant prison for not paying --- I still wouldn't pay an unjust tax on my home.

howamidifferent

Gingernuts31 wrote: »

Who was in power back then and who made all the decisions then? Didn't Fein Gael act back then just like Sein Fein are acting now? The big difference now is that there isn't a hugh pension pot sitting there waiting to be raided and billions just floating around. Fein Gael are trying to fix Fianna failure's cock ups. Liek I said evem martin said sorry for his party fcuking up the country, he didn't blame Fein Gael did he? No he didn't.

Seems to me that if FG/LAB only purpose is to carry out Germany dictated orders on what to do to fix the economy , we should get rid of them all and just let the civil service get their instructiosn directly from Germany. Why are we paying 100k+ per annum to 166 people with no power, followed by years of 100k+ per annum pensions if in effect they have no power and no choice as they claim.....

dvpower

ebixa82 wrote: »

So with 10 days left only 40% of people on claim they won't pay.

Considering the demograph and general political views of the majority of people who vote here, wouldn't it be fair to say that No % in the general population would be considerably lower?

There was a Red C poll published a couple of weeks ago which showed a majority were going to pay it on time.
It would be interesting to see an updated poll.

Biggins

dvpower wrote: »

I think its been established that they planned to publish draft legislation in the first 100 days. I think they also said they would hold the referendum in the first year.
They haven't delivered on either of these, but I think you're guilding the lily in saying that they did a u-turn and published the new plan on the website of some Cork councillor.

“Micheál Martin has meanwhile denied his own U-turn on the Seanad. Yet a U-turn is what it clearly was: on January 10th he said the Seanad would play a key role in EU affairs. But during the election he followed Fine Gael’s example and proposed that the Seanad should be abolished.

And once again, its FG own website thats saying this - already mentioned twice but it seems skipped over:

Fine Gael has a plan to get Ireland working. If elected to Government Fine Gael will put in place a comprehensive ‘First 100 Days’ strategy, Fine Gael Leader Enda Kenny announced today (Wednesday).

And adding on from those very words directly above that they will do in those 100 days, below that - on its own website -

Quote:
• Sweeping political reforms including measures to cut the number of TDs, abolish the Seanad, extend Dáil sitting times, introduce car-pooling for Ministers, and cutting pay for Ministers and senior civil servants;

http://www.finegael2011.com/pressrel...p?artId=5E5A57

...And they then released this as a press release.

---

Its being spun now by FG that they actually meant another - but the fact is that because of technology and a further ability to record and track whats been actually said and done, they cannot now further get away as simply as before with their words stated at one stage and later change later to another thing.

Even now as the Irish Examiner puts it, with FG and their latest reworded spin:

Abolition of the Seanad: Plans to abolish the Seanad remain but the referendum on the matter has now been delayed until next year. It is also likely the current members will last their whole five-year term, as the referendum result won’t affect the current Seanad. Seanad members know the survival of the second house in the long term would depend not just on persuading Enda Kenny but the public in general that their work is not a waste of time and, more importantly, taxpayers’ money.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/analysis-so-how-is-the-government-really-doing-158019.html#ixzz1plIoFtIS

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

If there was 20 year instant prison for not paying --- I still wouldn't pay an unjust tax on my home.

If they were going to bulldoze the homes of evaders with the residents inside, Tayto wouldn't pay it.

This €100 household charge is the most important issue in the history of the Irish people.

tayto lover

tbh wrote: »

So - the people vote in an fair and open election, and you refuse to accept the outcome of that election because the choice of the majority wasn't your choice?

The majority voted for a party but that party then dropped all their promises and became the party they replaced.

Frank Black

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

The reality is that FF and FG conspired against the citizen. They're as guilty as any FF or Green party member.

No, that's your reality, not the reality.

I know it's easy for you conspiracy theorists to get all mixed up about reality and stuff, but you need to try and keep things straight and not let the paranoid murmurings in your head take over, or else you're going to end up living alone in a log cabin in the woods with loads of newspaper clipping plastered all over the walls.



And you'll still have to pay a property tax.

dvpower

Biggins wrote: »

And once again, its FG own website thats saying this - already mentioned twice but it seems skipped over:



And adding on from those very words directly above that they will do in those 100 days, below that - on its own website -



http://www.finegael2011.com/pressrel...p?artId=5E5A57

...And they then released this as a press release.

I'm sorry - was there an additional point you were trying to make?

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

There was a Red C poll published a couple of weeks ago which showed a majority were going to pay it on time.
It would be interesting to see an updated poll.

The latest "poll" are the official figures of approx 280,000 out of 1.6 million have registered.
Not looking good for Hulk Hogan..

alastair

mikom wrote: »

The latest "poll" are the official figures of approx 280,000 out of 1.6 million have registered.
Not looking good for Hulk Hogan..

If he actually believed that the deadline had some sort of critical meaning.
Late payers are an equally useful source of revenue.