Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

The Quadratic Equation

gigino wrote: »

If you do not want your little € 100 contribution to go towards the 30,000 public servants who are paid over 85,000 a year, or towards the thousands of public servants on pensions of over 80,000 a year, then make your cheque payable and addressed to;

Angela Merkel,
Chancellor of Germany,
Bundestag,
Reichstag Building,
Berlin,
Germany.

Yes, let a German public servant spend it on german goods and services in Germany instead.

I agree that apart from perhaps surgeons no public servant should be paid 80k plus, and any public servant with the word 'manager' anywhere their title should be severely examined, but make no mistake, unless you start properly differentiating between different grades in the public service, it will be the lower and middle grades that will take all the cuts again instead of the protected fat cat public servants. Any other approach is just playing straight into their hands, and ordinary worker fighting ordinary worker, exactly what the golden circle scum in this country want you to do in am ordinary worker civil war race to the bottom.

The Quadratic Equation

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I believe that is what the government is aiming for. I think you have to include square footage into the equation.

Actually property value would be far more fair. Why should a low income farmer, in an old farm house, with no mains sewer, streetlighting, footpaths, or public transport, be expected to pay more than some golden circle tosser living in a fancy 'mews' in Dublin 4 ?

tayto lover

namloc1980 wrote: »

Who was justifying Enda and the extra €25k? Government expenditure in 2002 was c.€30 billion. Why can't we cut back to that? As I recall we weren't living in the dark ages in 2002!

You are assuming that the lad in the tax office is on a big wage. I doubt they are on a lot. The wages in the Public Sector are not that good as the frontline people have been saying here for a long time. There are people too interested in creating a divide because it suits their purpose. Both Private and Public should stand together.

Bullseye1

I'm sure value of house and site value will also come into the equation.

tayto lover

gigino wrote: »

If you do not want your little € 100 contribution to go towards the 30,000 public servants who are paid over 85,000 a year, or towards the thousands of public servants on pensions of over 80,000 a year, then make your cheque payable and addressed to;

Angela Merkel,
Chancellor of Germany,
Bundestag,
Reichstag Building,
Berlin,
Germany.

Could you post stats to back up those wages please.
I have heard the Frontline people on the radio and t.v. dispute those kind of wages. And I have seen on t.v. Prime Time where 70% of Public Sector pensioners are on 27k or less.

K-9

namloc1980 wrote: »

Who was justifying Enda and the extra €25k? Government expenditure in 2002 was c.€30 billion. Why can't we cut back to that? As I recall we weren't living in the dark ages in 2002!

Because cutting back to 02 levels means a resultant decrease in tax revenues to something like 98 levels. So we then have to cut expenditure to 98 levels!

Posy wrote: »

FG said a lot of things.

Indeed. Which is why if people listened to when FG were questioned about it this should come as no surprise!

The Quadratic Equation

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I'm sure value of house and site value will also come into the equation.

Something fair and equitable in Ireland ?

I would'nt hold my breath if I were you.

This is a plutocracy, not a democracy.

namloc1980

tayto lover wrote: »

You are assuming that the lad in the tax office is on a big wage. I doubt they are on a lot. The wages in the Public Sector are not that good as the frontline people have been saying here for a long time. There are people too interested in creating a divide because it suits their purpose. Both Private and Public should stand together.

Huh? I never mentioned anything about the dude in the tax office.

The reality is that our tax revenue is back to 2002 levels, give me reasons why expenditure can't be cut back to match 2002 levels?

tayto lover

namloc1980 wrote: »

Huh? I never mentioned anything about the dude in the tax office.

The reality is that our tax revenue is back to 2002 levels, give me reasons why expenditure can't be cut back to match 2002 levels?

Hang around. It's happening now with all these extra taxes and VAT hikes.

namloc1980

K-9 wrote: »

Because cutting back to 02 levels means a resultant decrease in tax revenues to something like 98 levels. So we then have to cut expenditure to 98 levels!

Even so our deficit would be cut down substantially. The "tax the hell out of everyone" model is not working. We brought in nearly €900m less in tax in 2011 than forecast, primarily because of the govts insistence on taking money away from people and further depressing the domestic economy. Think about that for a second....the government have increased all sorts of taxes but they continue to bring in less than projected. A 5 year old can see that this cannot work........it is painfully apparent that you cannot tax your way out of a recession.

Posy

Do apartment owners pay this charge too?

namloc1980

Posy wrote: »

Do apartment owners pay this charge too?

Yup.

gigino

namloc1980 wrote: »

The reality is that our tax revenue is back to 2002 levels, give me reasons why expenditure can't be cut back to match 2002 levels?

In 2001 spending on the public sector was only 9 billion a year. Its now 17 to 18 billion a year. Everything still functioned in 2001.....

Thats the elephant in the room. The property tax will only bring in a pittance by comparison.

tayto lover

gigino wrote: »

In 2001 spending on the public sector was only 9 billion a year. Its now 17 to 18 billion a year. Everything still functioned in 2001.....

Thats the elephant in the room. The property tax will only bring in a pittance by comparison.

Could you give me stats on the wages you posted please. I'm interested as i don't think they are anywhere near those figures.

K-9

namloc1980 wrote: »

Even so our deficit would be cut down substantially. The "tax the hell out of everyone" model is not working. We brought in nearly €900m less in tax in 2011 than forecast, primarily because of the govts insistence on taking money away from people and further depressing the domestic economy. Think about that for a second....the government have increased all sorts of taxes but they continue to bring in less than projected. A 5 year old can see that this cannot work........it is painfully apparent that you cannot tax your way out of a recession.

Yeah but it was 7% up on last years tax revenues, that would be the USC and a few accountancy tricks.

Guess what happens if taxes are at 98 levels and expenditure 02, you cut again!

This is what people who want to cut, cut, cut don't get. Same as people who say increase taxes, one is as bad as another. It has been proven that a 1% cut in purely Government generated GDP means a .5/.6% cut in growth. Cutting Welfare and the PS pay bill is unavoidable but not the straight forward panacea right wingers tell you.

Slash Welfare and PS pay, be prepared for a big drop in tax revenues and GDP growth, its why GNP hasn't grown in a few years. Internal spending gets cut, tax receipts drop, growth drops, the only that goes up is unemployment which means more cuts.

The late 80's was different, taxes could be cut. The deficit is so high it needs tax raises and cuts.

I agree the amount of the deficit reduces. The percentages might well not. Your economy is shrinking and needing cut more, GDP shrinks so your percentage of GDP deficit doesn't change much at all. That's what the sharks, sorry markets, are interested in.

There have been big cuts so far, maybe not enough for many but still no sign of growth. Its akin to the doctor wanting to cut a leg of because the toe didn't work.

The Quadratic Equation

K-9 wrote: »

Its akin to the doctor wanting to cut a leg of because the toe didn't work.

Indeed, and he wants to cause a distraction by cutting the wrong leg while ignoring the real cause, i.e. the golden brown Irish ring.

Am Chile

franciebellew wrote: »

Why would anyone risk going to jail for refusing to pay this? I certainly wouldnt risk it for €100.

Probably cost more if you needed legal representation in court?

UNfortunately some people still belive if they don,t pay they be left on their own, the anti household tax campaign has a legal team ready to defend me,and defend all other non payers.

Am Chile

eth0 wrote: »

Got to love the RTE propaganda about how many people have already signed up, dieing to pay this lovely tax

Indeed,I checked the RTE website this morning at 9am and it said 700 people had paid the charge a few hours later at one o clock news they said 2000 registered to pay,. I doubt they’ve had 1300 people pay in that space of a few short hours. fox news spin at its finest.

I have to question What “average couple” etc. with kids has money after the XMAS holidays to pay this straight away in the first few days of January.

A very slick PR campaign has been launched to scare people into payment.

It is a very cynical move,It seems like an awful lot of people are showing an interest in paying a new tax very very quickly.

Are those with a vested interest trying to create a surge in early payments? Who the hell goes out and pays a newly created tax in the first week in January after the Christmas holidays when the apparent deadline imposed is the 31 March.

Also to the best of my knowledge they hadn,t even advertised the website and payment details all that much so I don,t know how over 2000 people already knew about it. . As a matter of interest when registering I beleive details on your water supply connection are also taken....so they are all set up for the next charge.

Also intersting to hear on newstalk that someones FINALLY asked the question if its legal for the board to use the databases of the ESB and co or if it violates the data protection act.no definitive answer was forthcomming rending alot of the shyte spouted the last few days nonsense.

the spin is in FULL swing which means this must be in worst shape than i initially thought.

Just everyone knows where this source about these numbers paying is actually coming from,take it with a grain of salt.

The statistic comes from a body most of you will never have heard of before – the “Household Charge Project

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/700-pay-the-new-e100-property-charge-judas-goats-or-patriotic-realists

What next from the establishment despite public anger at the septic tank charges, thousands also pay those too in a couple of hours LOL.(Sarcism)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/families-will-refuse-to-pay-septic-tank-charge-says-td-178969.html

http://www.kerryman.ie/news/septic-tank-owner-would-rather-go-to-jail-than-pay-euro-50-charge-2979235.html

oldyouth

Am Chile wrote: »

UNfortunately some people still belive if they don,t pay they be left on their own, the anti household tax campaign has a legal team ready to defend me,and defend all other non payers.

How many lawyers in this legal team? Would want to be 100s to defend the number of non- payers needed to make the campaign successful.

primastar

Will pay it in the coppers from my loose change jar, down to the local PO and watch them squirm it out")")

Chips Lovell

Am Chile wrote: »

A very slick PR campaign has been launched to scare people into payment.

It is a very cynical move,It seems like an awful lot of people are showing an interest in paying a new tax very very quickly.

Are those with a vested interest trying to create a surge in early payments? Who the hell goes out and pays a newly created tax in the first week in January after the Christmas holidays when the apparent deadline imposed is the 31 March.

There's little evidence of a conspiracy here.

I'm going to pay mine before the end of the week. Might as well pay it now while I have the cash, in case I'm stuck for it further down the line. I suspect I'm not the only person who employs this logic.

silliegillie

TBH I am waiting to see how many people have signed up before the end of March to see whether I will go ahead with this or not. If enough people say no then I will aswell. I hear the argument that other countries have it, well these countries don't have a USC, or high VAT as us, other than Britain I'm not even sure they pay television license (Lived with some Spanish and they could not get their head around that one) Pay road tax, Pay Carbon tax, PAYE, I pay over 1000 a year for Management company. I'm not paying this charge. If there was a reduction in these other ones then maybe, or if it was done fairer. Also, Officially I have not received anything to inform me that i have to pay it. If I lived on a mountain as a recluse with no internet or other type of media I would not even be aware of this. So If I don't get anything official to tell me to do it, then I certainly wont

mickydoomsux

silliegillie wrote: »

So If I don't get anything official to tell me to do it, then I certainly wont

Ignorance is no defence.

Chips Lovell

I have to pay income tax? Well nobody told me!

silliegillie

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Ignorance is no defence.

Suppose you have a point, Still I wont be paying it.

Stiffler2

Great, check out the FAQ's on www.householdcharge.ie

Quote :
What are the exemptions from liability to pay the household charge?


The exemptions are as follows:

• Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction,
• Residential property vested in a Minister of the Government or the Health Service Executive,

So basically if you're a minister who's earning hundreds of thousands a year you are exempt from paying the household charge. TWATS - AND THEY EXPECT US TO PAY IT WHILE THEY PUT IN LOOPHOLES FOR THEMSELVES UGHHHHHH !!!!!!!

IRISH PEOPLE ARE SOOOO STUPID

==================================================

What are the waivers from payment of the household charge?


The waivers from payment of the household charge are as follows:

• Owners of residential property entitled to mortgage interest supplement

Does this mean if you purchased a property recently and are getting mortage interest relief which you get for the first 7 years that you don't have to pay it ?? and only owners who are over the 7 year period have to pay it or am I misunderstood here ??

mickydoomsux

Stiffler2 wrote: »

What are the waivers from payment of the household charge?


The waivers from payment of the household charge are as follows:

• Owners of residential property entitled to mortgage interest supplement

Does this mean if you purchased a property recently and are getting mortage interest relief which you get for the first 7 years that you don't have to pay it ?? and only owners who are over the 7 year period have to pay it or am I misunderstood here ??

Those are two completely different things.

Gophur

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Great, check out the FAQ's on www.householdcharge.ie

Quote :
What are the exemptions from liability to pay the household charge?


The exemptions are as follows:

• Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction,
• Residential property vested in a Minister of the Government or the Health Service Executive,

So basically if you're a minister who's earning hundreds of thousands a year you are exempt from paying the household charge. TWATS - AND THEY EXPECT US TO PAY IT WHILE THEY PUT IN LOOPHOLES FOR THEMSELVES UGHHHHHH !!!!!!!

IRISH PEOPLE ARE SOOOO STUPID

==================================================

...........

I think the likes of you should be made to pay double!

Chips Lovell

Stiffler2 wrote: »

[*]Residential property vested in a Minister of the Government or the Health Service Executive,
[/LIST]So basically if you're a minister who's earning hundreds of thousands a year you are exempt from paying the household charge. TWATS - AND THEY EXPECT US TO PAY IT WHILE THEY PUT IN LOOPHOLES FOR THEMSELVES UGHHHHHH !!!!!!!

That doesn't mean the ministers' own houses. It essentially properties that are owned by the state.

Stiffler2 wrote: »

What are the waivers from payment of the household charge?


The waivers from payment of the household charge are as follows:

• Owners of residential property entitled to mortgage interest supplement

Does this mean if you purchased a property recently and are getting mortage interest relief which you get for the first 7 years that you don't have to pay it ?? and only owners who are over the 7 year period have to pay it or am I misunderstood here ??

Mortgage interest relief is not the same thing as mortgage interest supplement, so no.

donalg1

I for one am going to wait until the end of March before paying see what happens in the meantime if anything, I am sure nothing will happen with the non payment campaign so I will end up paying it then.

I was going to pay this week but thought better of it just in case!