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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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Comments

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    #6932
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    alastair wrote: »
    The household charge is obviously a property tax. It's a flat rate property tax, to be replaced with a tiered rate property tax - two kinds of property tax.

    Anger isn't going to sway the need to rebuild our revenue structures - sorry.

    Sorry, but you're wrong. It is a household charge, which the government claim to be for local services. If it were a property tax by definition, they would call it such. I do see where you are coming from, but you are wrong.


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    #6933
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    goz83 wrote: »
    Sorry, but you're wrong. It is a household charge, which the government claim to be for local services. If it were a property tax by definition, they would call it such. I do see where you are coming from, but you are wrong.

    Is it a tax?
    Is it on ownership of property?


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    #6934
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    I think you'll find all taxes are 'makey uppy'.

    Not really. Some are justified if we wish to live in 1st world society. This tax is a piss take.


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    #6935
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Not really. Some are justified if we wish to live in 1st world society. This tax is a piss take.

    Which tax was ordained from above, by celestial beings?

    The rest were made up at some point.

    Could you direct me to the 1st world societies that don't apply property taxation?


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    #6936
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    goz83 wrote: »
    Sorry, but you're wrong. It is a household charge, which the government claim to be for local services. If it were a property tax by definition, they would call it such. I do see where you are coming from, but you are wrong.
    It is clearly a property tax, just not the property tax.


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    #6937
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Not really. Some are justified if we wish to live in 1st world society. This tax is a piss take.
    Selective tax evasion is hardly a hallmark of a 1st world society.


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    #6938
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    dvpower wrote: »
    It is clearly a property tax, just not the property tax.

    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    etc...


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    #6939
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    etc...

    No - those are opposites.

    A tax on your property is a property tax.

    Spot the distinction?


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    #6940
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    Which tax was ordained from above, by celestial beings?

    The rest were made up at some point.

    Could you direct me to the 1st world societies that don't apply property taxation?

    No but mostly because I can't be arsed. What happens elsewhere is of little concern to me.
    dvpower wrote: »
    Selective tax evasion is hardly a hallmark of a 1st world society.

    So you lie down and accept whatever is decided.

    I'm not going to justify or explain my non compliance to anyone here. I'll save that for when I need to.


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    #6941
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    No but mostly because I can't be arsed. What happens elsewhere is of little concern to me.

    Maybe if you can't be arsed with what happens in the world, you shouldn't make an argument based on it, eh?


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    #6942
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    dvpower wrote: »
    Selective tax evasion is hardly a hallmark of a 1st world society.

    It's certainly a hallmark of the top tier of any 1st world society.


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    #6943
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    How many anti household tax posters that post here daily, are going to the national rally in dublin tomorrow afternoon?


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    #6944
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    So you lie down and accept whatever is decided.
    No. In a 1st world society, you build the mechanisms to make these decisions, and unmake them, if necessary.

    So, if the household charge isn't acceptable, you argue against it and vote for people who represent your view. In a 1st world society, you don't simply ignore the laws you don't like.
    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I'm not going to justify or explain my non compliance to anyone here. I'll save that for when I need to.
    Fair 'nuff.


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    #6945
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    It's certainly a hallmark of the top tier of any 1st world society.
    Tax aviodance perhaps which is a different kettle of fish. I take the point but I'm not convinced by the arguement that because the rich have ways to avoid tax, the rest of us are justified in evading tax.


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    #6946
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    etc...
    venn diagram time


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    #6947
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    Maybe if you can't be arsed with what happens in the world, you shouldn't make an argument based on it, eh?

    I can't be arsed making pendantic arguments with you.

    The day my council actually provided me services, then I'll consider paying a charge.

    I've no problem paying a water charge.

    Have you signed up and paid your €100?


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    #6948
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I can't be arsed making pendantic arguments with you.

    The day my council actually provided me services, then I'll consider paying a charge.

    I've no problem paying a water charge.

    Have you signed up and paid your €100?

    I assume then you never use the roads in this country then in any way at all?


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    #6949
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I can't be arsed making pendantic arguments with you.

    The day my council actually provided me services, then I'll consider paying a charge.

    I've no problem paying a water charge.

    Have you signed up and paid your €100?

    I've paid. I'd hardly not pay for something I'm advocating.

    Your council does provide services. As does every other council. You're already taking advantage of them - just refusing to contribute.


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    #6950
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Am Chile wrote: »
    How many anti household tax posters that post here daily, are going to the national rally in dublin tomorrow afternoon?

    I'll be there.

    As will an Uncle of mine, mid sixties retired, law abiding citizen
    Also, his two next door neighbors, mid fifties, hard working law abiding citizens
    Also another uncle of mine, who turns eighty this year! Also a retired tax payer all his life, law abiding citizen.


    I've just left a customer down here in Templemore, spoke to a few mechanics in a garage I was doing a bit of business in.
    Guess how many have paid/registered? None
    Guess how many are for Dublin tomorrow to protest? All three with their partners.

    You guys seriously underestimate the anger that exists out here in the real world.


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    #6951
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Am Chile wrote: »
    How many anti household tax posters that post here daily, are going to the national rally in dublin tomorrow afternoon?
    Its a national day of rallying and you attend your local one. Which i am doing.


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    #6952
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    OurLadyofKnock wrote: »
    Can anyone show me the service contract I signed to get these services? I can't seem to be able to locate it.

    Why do you need a contract?


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    #6953
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I assume then you never use the roads in this country then in any way at all?

    I pay motor tax on vehicles, I pay tolls, I pay a very high rate of tax on fuel.


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    #6954
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Guess how many are for Dublin tomorrow to protest? All three with their partners.

    You might make the 2,000 capacity yet!


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    #6955
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I pay a very high rate of tax on fuel.

    More than the rest of us?

    You do get that we're all paying for borrowing to make up the shortfall in revenues? Pay your taxes and save in the long run.


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    #6956
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ghandee wrote: »
    I'll be there.
    Is it a ticket only affair or can anyone just turn up?
    Its a very small venue.


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    #6957
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I pay motor tax on vehicles, I pay tolls, I pay a very high rate of tax on fuel.

    Your tolls have nothing to do with the roads in this country they are put in place to pay for the actual road they are on and are usually collected by the company that built the road and not by the LA's. Generally they have a contract that allows them to collect these tolls over 20 years or so, that way they can recoup some of the costs involved in the construction of these roads throught he PPP Scheme.

    Motor Tax does not specifically cover the construction, maintenance and general upkeep of roads, I think that has been made clear numerous times in this thread, and most people in the country realise that money taken in by Motor Tax does not go straight and solely to the Roads Department to fix the roads. So saying you pay motor tax to use the roads isnt exactly accurate.


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    #6958
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I pay motor tax on vehicles, I pay tolls, I pay a very high rate of tax on fuel.
    Wasting your time Micky, this has been explained countess times, these guys refuse to accept this fact though.
    alastair wrote: »
    You might make the 2,000 capacity yet!

    Welcome back. :cool:

    You guys might make the 1.8 million compliance also.


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    #6959
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    Pay your taxes and save in the long run.

    Like a good non questioning citizen. not this time for me.

    You've decided on your course of action and good luck to you.

    We'll see what course the majority decide to follow.


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    #6960
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    You guys might make the 1.8 million compliance also.

    That's a certainty - just a question of by when.


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    #6961
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Like a good non questioning citizen. not this time for me.

    I'm very clear on why I support property taxation. You seem to be struggling to articulate why you oppose it. If anyone has problems with questioning, I'd look a little closer to home.


This discussion has been closed.
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