Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Ogham

mountai wrote: »

Noticed today whilst on newpropertytax.ie (crashed now) that there are certain exemptions. Among them are "properties that are vested in a minister of the state" . Whats the betting that these greedy bloodsucking shower of useless wan*ers wont take advantage of this clause to avoid paying for their personal properties???!!!

That just means government owned housing (i.e army etc) Not personally owned properties.

mountai

Look at the second line of my post.!!!!

Gophur

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm afraid they have stopped that too as far as I know. You pay whether its on or off the road now.

They haven't.

That's just a rumour based on a statement they were looking into introducing a system similar to that in the UK.

Am Chile

Phil hogan on rte radio just now, the guy who Interviewing him said you seem to making the figures up as you go along,I couldn,t agree any more.

Geuze

EmptyWithMe wrote: »

My mom's not paying ours and I fully support her. She's recovering from breast cancer and has her last (hopefully) operation coming up in February. As soon as a year had passed since her diagnosis, her medical card was revoked. We're by no means a high earning household, and now we've to find a few thousand for her operation? I'll pay the charge myself when she gets her card back. That won't happen, though.

Note that hosp treatment in Irl is free, apart from a 75 pn charge, with a max of 750 pa.

So unless you choose to be a private patient, the op will not cost thousands.

Handy11

Just paid it today. In addition to the loss of Rent tax credits, it amounts to a loss of €380 each for myself and the wife. Necessary evil though. You know or at least assume such things when you buy a house.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Will the legal team still be around in 5 or 10 years when I might want to sell my house.

Am Chile wrote: »

What makes you think property tax will still be in by then? every threat that,s being made,threat about docking wages,threat about not selling house, there,s a legal team ready to challenge it.

Unless you can guarantee that it will be abolished then people who don't pay will have bills of thousands when it comes to selling a house. Can you guarantee it will be abolished?

psychward

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Unless you can guarantee that it will be abolished then people who don't pay will have bills of thousands when it comes to selling a house. Can you guarantee it will be abolished?

If it's abolished and people don't have to pay will those who paid then look for refunds ?

K-9

Buford Tannen wrote: »

This is not correct, about 80% of the workforce would still pay the same amount of tax as they do at the moment

Nah, they'd be asked to pay more as revenues fell.

gear_ie

I really feel that the tenant should pay the 'property tax' as they are the ones using the local services / amenities.

Yes you guessed it I'm a landlord, but not a rich one nor one that owns loads of properties just one. I own & rent out a 2 bed apartment and pay the NPPR and now will have to pay the €100 'property tax / household charge' on that property - that's a total of 300 quid a year. The property is in negative equity and the rent doesn't cover the service charge or the mortgage and as a good citizen I also pay the taxes on the rental income which means that I owe even more money on it... wish I never bought the place...

As I don't live in the property why should I pay the 'property tax'? I have no problem paying the tax on the property I currently live in as I use the local services / amenities.

oldyouth

Am Chile wrote: »

Hope you don,t mind asking, do you live in rural Ireland or do live in an urban area? you do know a full property tax is coming with combined water charges, or combined with a septic tank charges if you live in rural Ireland, my question are you prepared to pay a full property tax combined with water charges, or combined with septic tank charges if you happen to live in rural Ireland?

Rural area, on a water scheme, with a septic tank. I'm fully aware of what's coming and I'm not happy about it but I'll deal with them as they come. If the charges are passed in to law, I'll pay them.

Face reality, the ordinary citizens of this country will pay for the mistakes of the past, not the perpetrators. If some decide not to pay their share and leave it to rest of us, what makes them different from the bankers and developers?

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Unless you can guarantee that it will be abolished then people who don't pay will have bills of thousands when it comes to selling a house. Can you guarantee it will be abolished?

When the half the majority refuse to pay, the goverment will have no choice but to abolish it.

Am Chile

oldyouth wrote: »

Rural area, on a water scheme, with a septic tank. I'm fully aware of what's coming and I'm not happy about it but I'll deal with them as they come. If the charges are passed in to law, I'll pay them.

Face reality, the ordinary citizens of this country will pay for the mistakes of the past, not the perpetrators. If some decide not to pay their share and leave it to rest of us, what makes them different from the bankers and developers?

If you pay the extra taxes, that,s your choice as an Individual, however not everyone is gonna prepared to pay the three new taxes planned, I reject the other part not paying their share, I pay tv licence, I pay my paye, I pay my motor tax, Im not against taxes in general, Im against this attitude has towards the people, lets throw as many new taxes at them as possible, even though I don,t own a septic tank, I fully support those who will be boycotting the septic tank charges also.

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

When the half the majority refuse to pay, the goverment will have no choice but to abolish it.

It will require a majority in the Dail to abolish it. More likely in my opinion is that the property tax will go ahead and water charges will also be introduced.

Bishop_Donal

gear_ie wrote: »

I really feel that the tenant should pay the 'property tax' as they are the ones using the local services / amenities.

Yes you guessed it I'm a landlord, but not a rich one nor one that owns loads of properties just one. I own & rent out a 2 bed apartment and pay the NPPR and now will have to pay the €100 'property tax / household charge' on that property - that's a total of 300 quid a year. The property is in negative equity and the rent doesn't cover the service charge or the mortgage and as a good citizen I also pay the taxes on the rental income which means that I owe even more money on it... wish I never bought the place...

As I don't live in the property why should I pay the 'property tax'? I have no problem paying the tax on the property I currently live in as I use the local services / amenities.

I'm in the same boat as you. I have already paid it on the rental house as well as my own.

I wasn't going to increase the rent this year, but I've now decided to increase it by Eur240 (which is still nominal in the overall context). When I net out the increased income tax (and anticipated PRSI on rental income next year) I end up quits.

I agree with your logic (as the NPPR was the tax introduced for landlords), but there is no point even trying to explain the logic to tenants.

BTW, before any tenants get up on their high horse about rent etc, if you are not happy with your rent, just leave the rental house you are in.

mikemac1

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I wasn't going to increase the rent this year, but I've now decided to increase it by Eur240 (which is still nominal in the overall context).

BTW, before any tenants get up on their high horse about rent etc, if you are not happy with your rent, just leave the rental house you are in.

When you explain the increase to your tenant they might leave you

Just a few weeks of vacancy and your increase is wiped out

You've made a decision and taking a risk

And while it's fine to say if tenants don't like it they should move on well don't be suprised if your tenant doesn't want a "nominal" price increase, laughs and leaves you with an empty property

It's business and every decision has a result

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It will require a majority in the Dail to abolish it. More likely in my opinion is that the property tax will go ahead and water charges will also be introduced.

All it requires is people power half the population to refuse to pay it, when water charges, were abolished last time,none of the ula or sinn fein had any seats,the water charges they say they want to introduce in 2014, there,s also local election due to be held that year, if they try bring in a full property tax combined with water charges in 2014, both fine gael and labour will havd wipeout in local elections and they know it, over at politics.ie yesterday afternoon one of fg posters even admitted the household tax and the septic tank charges are likely to be overturned due to public opinion.

Pete M.

oldyouth wrote: »

Face reality, the ordinary citizens of this country will pay for the mistakes of the past, not the perpetrators. If some decide not to pay their share and leave it to rest of us, what makes them different from the bankers and developers?

That has got to be one of the saddest posts I've seen on here for quite a while

You have faced the reality, understand the inequity of what has happened and are still willing to pay. But not only that, you would lump those of us who choose to resist in with the b@stards who fcuked it all up in the first place.

And I'll tell you what is different between the two groups; One is motivated by greed and avarice; The other has had enough of the bullsh1t and are unwilling to pay debts that have nothing to do with them.

This campaign of non-payment will hopefully be the start of some real change and resistance to relentless attack on working people.

Am Chile

I wasn't going to increase the rent this year, but I've now decided to increase it by Eur240

Lovely stuff a property owner openly admitting Increasing rent due to the household tax, thanks you just gave me some nice info to show people who are renting, which will get more people I know against the household tax.

Bishop_Donal

mikemac1 wrote: »

When you explain the increase to your tenant they might leave you

Just a few weeks of vacancy and your increase is wiped out

You've made a decision and taking a risk

And while it's fine to say if tenants don't like it they should move on well don't be suprised if your tenant doesn't want a "nominal" price increase, laughs and leaves you with an empty property

It's business and every decision has a result

I'll respect their prerogative!!

The great thing now is that even if they do leave, the impact is only half the rent for the first few months of vacancy (owing to the fact that only 75% of the interest is allowable against the rent).

Thank God I am in a position whereby I can take the gamble.

The ball is in their court;)

oldyouth

Am Chile wrote: »

If you pay the extra taxes, that,s your choice as an Individual, however not everyone is gonna prepared to pay the three new taxes planned, I reject the other part not paying their share, I pay tv licence, I pay my paye, I pay my motor tax, Im not against taxes in general, Im against this attitude has towards the people, lets throw as many new taxes at them as possible, even though I don,t own a septic tank, I fully support those who will be boycotting the septic tank charges also.

So you would be in favour of scrapping the household tax, property tax, water charges and septic tank charge and put up the TV licence, motor tax and PAYE by the same amount? I'd have no problem with that either. Once you accept that our bills have to be paid somehow, in some format. I personally think the new ones are fairer.

Bishop_Donal

Am Chile wrote: »

Lovely stuff a property owner openly admitting Increasing rent due to the household tax, thanks you just gave me some nice info to show people who are renting, which will get more people I know against the household tax.

I'm neither trying to annoy anyone or turn anyone against paying the tax.

I am simply saying that I elected to impose a modest rent increase this year that I had not previously been planning to do. The fact that my tenant is accepting it suggests that the rent is still reasonable.

I believe that everyone has to pay their fair share of tax. I would just prefer if it was levied properly so that the tenant would be Eur140 better off (as it seems unfair that to balance the books I had to double it).

Bishop_Donal

oldyouth wrote: »

So you would be in favour of scrapping the household tax, property tax, water charges and septic tank charge and put up the TV licence, motor tax and PAYE by the same amount? I'd have no problem with that either. Once you accept that our bills have to be paid somehow, in some format. I personally think the new ones are fairer.

Hear Hear.

Too much NIMBY'ism in this country. The old 'we all agree that someone should pay, but not me', is finally banjacksed. The new taxes / social welfare cuts / public spending cuts have to apply to all now, because Labour and Fine Gael have twigged that they have reached the law of diminshing tax returns on higher income earners.

TheZohanS

Not paying the tax. Government can go fùck themselves.

xi

TheZohan wrote: »

Not paying the tax. Government can go fùck themselves.

As long as you don't use the ESB to power your Manhattan apartment you will be fine.:D

psychward

xi wrote: »

As long as you don't use the ESB to power your Manhattan apartment you will be fine.:D

He can always rent the apartment next door and run an esb cable through to the other one

oldyouth

Pete M. wrote: »

That has got to be one of the saddest posts I've seen on here for quite a while

You have faced the reality, understand the inequity of what has happened and are still willing to pay. But not only that, you would lump those of us who choose to resist in with the b@stards who fcuked it all up in the first place.

And I'll tell you what is different between the two groups; One is motivated by greed and avarice; The other has had enough of the bullsh1t and are unwilling to pay debts that have nothing to do with them.

This campaign of non-payment will hopefully be the start of some real change and resistance to relentless attack on working people.

You're just confirming my point. The bill for the past is sitting on the sideboard, it has to be paid by X date and people are still saying 'it wasn't me'. It has to be paid and all the shouting at the bankers and developers won't get it done. Strip all their assets, yes, but it won't cover the bill.

galwayrush

We have to pay it, it's important to protect the lifestyles of the elite in this country..:rolleyes:

greenpilot

I wont be paying for it. It is apparently for services. What services? I already pay for my water through the group water scheme. I dispose of my own rubbish through the local recycling centre, so I dont use a wheelie bin. And our road has completely broken up over the winter, and Mayo Co. Council wont come along and repair it....so, When I get a legit answer as to where exactly my 100 is going to be spent, then I will think about it.

As for the fools who have already paid for it...well done, you have missed out on the ONLY opportunity we had to show the Greedy Bastards in Dail Eireann that THEY WORK FOR US!....we are an Island of bloody sheep.

For those of you, especially in Rural Ireland, who still havent paid....stand your ground......, after all, even if you wait untill 2013, it will still be only €130, ....Lets wait this one out and ignore the scaremongering.....:mad:

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

All it requires is people power half the population to refuse to pay it, when water charges, were abolished last time,none of the ula or sinn fein had any seats,the water charges they say they want to introduce in 2014, there,s also local election due to be held that year, if they try bring in a full property tax combined with water charges in 2014, both fine gael and labour will havd wipeout in local elections and they know it, over at politics.ie yesterday afternoon one of fg posters even admitted the household tax and the septic tank charges are likely to be overturned due to public opinion.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael announced before the election that they would be introducing the household charge if they got elected, people were told what they were voting for. So it will take a massive swing to the Socialist Party to arrive at the situation in the Dail that you envisage. Sinn Fein the government party in the North did nothing to remove council taxes there and I see no reason to think they would behave differently here if they came to power.