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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #8192
    constitutionus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    Slick50 wrote: »
    So how have we gone thirty odd years without it, yet have had all these services (such as they are) in the interim?

    more over HOW can we still be on 2003 levels of tax take, a fecking BOOM time amount and not pay for services ?

    how about we cut the waste and balacnce the books before we take money off grannies and blind people ?

    FFS 2003 wages were damn good in the PS and social welfare.

    and what are we gonna do this year?

    fork out another 250 million in increases


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    #8193
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    As far as I know the UK are subsidising us to the tune of €7 billion. You know, money we had to borrow to bail out our bankrupt banks.

    You know the difference between a loan and a year on year subsidisation, right?


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    #8194
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Slick50 wrote: »
    So how have we gone thirty odd years without it, yet have had all these services (such as they are) in the interim?

    Maybe it had something to do with the money we were taking hand over fist from other European Union members whose citizens pay property taxes.


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    #8195
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    Anyone wrote: »
    €170m doesnt cover anything, its a drop in the ocean. So I cant see how,if at all, thats being used to pay the bondholders, so in my opinion thats nonsense talk.

    If that's all it is I don't know why they bother going through so much trouble to try and get this tax so


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    #8196
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    dvpower wrote: »
    Its in the legislation I believe.

    And? If you get talking to some chugger on the side f the street he'll tell you some similar story.

    How much of that €100 goes on services? Not pension schemes, not debts, not waste, but actual services provided. Fuhk all I'd say.

    Government = Chuggers


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    #8197
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    eth0 wrote: »
    As in, almost no services at all. I'd be glad if they didn't bother with the small few things they bother with cause I'd do it for less than 100e myself.

    We simply wouldn't borrow. The inflated public service wages will have to go but theres a lot that can be done with the tax they're getting in now if they didn't waste it.

    Who cleans the streets, who tidys the parks, who cleans the water, who repairs the roads, who repairs drains, I can go on and on and on.

    As for not borrowing, every country borrows, EVERY country. We half to borrow more because we currently run a deficit. If we tackle that then the amount we need to borrow is reduced, but even if we do, we still need to borrow.


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    #8198
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    Anyone wrote: »
    €170m doesnt cover anything, its a drop in the ocean. So I cant see how,if at all, thats being used to pay the bondholders, so in my opinion thats nonsense talk.

    You don't think it's enough to cover all LA's in the country either do you, that's equally nonsense.


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    #8199
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    black francis wrote: »
    Yeah, you're right, we haven't got the rest of the UK to subsidise us.

    Ouch Francis. Very ouch.


    However, I think you'll find that the UK did play a considerable part in our bailout.

    Think before you type man. FFS :rolleyes:


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    #8200
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    black francis wrote: »
    You know the difference between a loan and a year on year subsidisation, right?
    Yea, loans have to be paid back by screwing everyone for every type of unjust and unfair tax that can be thought of.


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    #8201
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    eth0 wrote: »
    If that's all it is I don't know why they bother going through so much trouble to try and get this tax so

    So many business's have gone bust, look in any town in Ireland and you will see empty shops,empty offices, these generated rates for the local councils. That revenue has been decimated, and it needs to be generated again.

    Anyway, I was countering your "bondholder" arguement....


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    #8202
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    steve9859 wrote: »
    I agree with almost all of that. And we need to tax a home and impose water charges, to balance the books, just like everyone else. But in the rest of Europe taxes are based on residence, not ownership. Much fairer if you buy the premise that the tax is to fund local services. I would not dispute a UK style 'council tax' but I do have issued with a property tax
    But why the need to make the specific link to local services. We have total spending which needs to be matched by total income (and a lot more for a good few years). Where is the rational in ring fencing any monies collected?

    And in any case there will be resistance to any such charge no matter how it is structured. "It's my house FFS, this is a free country" as somebody puts it above. :pac:

    steve9859 wrote: »
    What FG is actually doing is akin to a wealth tax, but they've missed the fundamental point that property ownership and wealth are no longer one and the same like they were a generation ago
    I can quite see how, in its current form, it can be described as a wealth tax, given that it is a flat rate of €100?


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    #8203
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    prinz wrote: »
    Maybe it had something to do with the money we were taking hand over fist from other European Union members whose citizens pay property taxes.

    This argument is idiocy, our other taxes paid for these things until now, paye, vat etc, they wouldn't need this money if they didn't pay civil servants too much and burned the bond holders.


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    #8204
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    laugh wrote: »
    This argument is idiocy, our other taxes paid for these things until now, paye, vat etc,...

    They didn't. Hence the reason our country is running a deficit.


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    #8205
    Kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    crazygeryy wrote: »
    No they wont it said on the radio adverts that no invoices will be sent out it must be paid by march 31st etc etc

    Invoices will be sent out.

    The_Thing wrote: »
    Utility bills do not prove ownership.

    An post have your name and address. It's how you get your mail. It's nothing to do with utility bills.


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    #8206
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Slick50 wrote: »
    So how have we gone thirty odd years without it, yet have had all these services (such as they are) in the interim?
    You are aware that we have a bit of an 'aul budget problem at the moment?


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    #8207
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    No wonder the country is fúcked. Our economic situation is all we've heard about for nigh on three years and still there are people with not the first clue what's actually going on. Christ on a bike.


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    #8208
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    laugh wrote: »
    This argument is idiocy, our other taxes paid for these things until now, paye, vat etc, they wouldn't need this money if they didn't pay civil servants too much and burned the bond holders.
    prinz wrote: »
    They didn't. Hence the reason our country is running a deficit.

    So what exactly is my paye tax used for?


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    #8209
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Kirby wrote: »
    Invoices will be sent out.




    An post have your name and address. It's how you get your mail. It's nothing to do with utility bills.

    If you rent, an post have your address too, what's your point?


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    #8210
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    prinz wrote: »
    Maybe it had something to do with the money we were taking hand over fist from other European Union members whose citizens pay property taxes.

    And what money would that be? they certainly weren't giving us money to run local authorities.


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    #8211
    Buford Tannen
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Buford Tannen


    Keep it up folks.Over 1 million have not payed yet.By this time next week all the government will be talking about is scrapping this stupid tax.


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    #8212
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    Anyone wrote: »
    So many business's have gone bust, look in any town in Ireland and you will see empty shops,empty offices, these generated rates for the local councils. That revenue has been decimated, and it needs to be generated again.

    Anyway, I was countering your "bondholder" arguement....

    So you think its alright to try and milk tax from the owners and former employees of these places after they've gone bust?

    I know one place that closed cause they couldn't afford the rates and I dunno what will happen to them if they had to pay 500e property tax and they certainly don't live a lavish lifestyle they can cut back on, no sky or broadband in this place.
    Anyone wrote: »
    Who cleans the streets, who tidys the parks, who cleans the water, who repairs the roads, who repairs drains, I can go on and on and on.

    As for not borrowing, every country borrows, EVERY country. We half to borrow more because we currently run a deficit. If we tackle that then the amount we need to borrow is reduced, but even if we do, we still need to borrow.

    if things are going good in a country they might borrow because of low interest rates and it's convenient to have the money laying around. they might be making a fortune off lending to other countries and dont necessarily need the money at all.


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    #8213
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    laugh wrote: »
    So what exactly is my paye tax used for?

    http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/economy/taxes.htm


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    #8214
    constitutionus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    prinz wrote: »
    They didn't. Hence the reason our country is running a deficit.


    actually they did

    up to 2000 we were an export led economy with balanced books.

    its the ponzi scheme from then on that relied on stamp duty, which ahern and co threw at "partnership" to buy industrial and political peace.

    and right now were STILL on 03 tax returns.

    so simply slash away all the stuff he threw it at since then and we'll be grand without new taxes.

    course that means UCD librarians cant earn 140k a year.


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    #8215
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    prinz wrote: »
    Christ on a bike.

    Motor tax must be crucifying him.


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    #8216
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    mikom wrote: »
    Motor tax must be crucifying him.

    We'll have to bring in a puncture kit tax.


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    #8217
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    prinz wrote: »
    http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/economy/taxes.htm

    Ok little boy go play with your bricks since you cannot debate with the adults.


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    #8218
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    lugha wrote: »
    You are aware that we have a bit of an 'aul budget problem at the moment?

    Ooooh!:cool: Really?. Why didn't somebody say so earlier?

    The oracle has landed.


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    #8219
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    prinz wrote: »
    We'll have to bring in a puncture kit tax.

    Told you.......
    Fix the puncture and the potholes..........then get back to me.


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    #8220
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    squod wrote: »
    And? If you get talking to some chugger on the side f the street he'll tell you some similar story.

    How much of that €100 goes on services? Not pension schemes, not debts, not waste, but actual services provided. Fuhk all I'd say.

    Government = Chuggers
    You asked for some back up for a statement that the tax is going to local government services and when pointed to the legislation, this is your response.

    I don't know why you bother asking when you were never going to listen to any answer that doesn't match your own predujice.


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    #8221
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    lugha wrote: »
    You are aware that we have a bit of an 'aul budget problem at the moment?

    So lets just take an arbitrary amount from anyone who isn't out on the street or in a caravan yet, regardless of what kind of 'aul budget problem those people might be having? As long as the government gets its money, worry about everyone else later or not at all.


This discussion has been closed.
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