Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

THE SECRET COVENENT

I got this from a member of the law society:-
Firstly, The Corporation and Co. Councils are registered companies, and as a registered company (See Company Law), YOU have to VOLINTARY enter into a contract with them in order for THEM to be able to charge YOU for the service!!!, or take you to court for non payment of same. This is why the government are using scare tactics to get people to register of their own acord.
Secondly, When will you decide you'r not going to pay any more property tax??
When it reaches 1000, 2000, or 3000,Euros plus, TOO LATE if you've already registered!!! You entered into an ever increasing contract so you suffer!!!.
Third, Once YOU "REGISTER" your property for "TAX", it is then technically no longer your property, FACT!!!!!
You want proof!!!! Ok, just stop paying after you've registered and see what happens.
Fourth, Would you believe a politician who tells you he won't take your "REGISTERED" property from you after a number of years of non payment or being unable to pay the tax that YOU registered for???
Fifth, You have two choices:-
A.. "YOU" can join all of the people with a back bone, and are not only fighting for their rights, but for your rights too, by refusing to pay this UNLAWFUL property tax. OR>
B.. "YOU" can bend over, stick your head in the sand, and let the government "SHAFT" you for the rest of your life!!!
I guarantee there will be ultra rightwing people who whiloe wallowing in their own ignorance of whats going on in this forsaken country will trying to belittle this thread, as they have done with other peoples comments, but you'll have to understand that these hypocrites either don't want us to fight for our rights just because they happen to be part of the cause of all our problems, or just have masacistic tendancies, or are in politics.
NOTE!!!! THE "SHIFT" HAS HIT THE FAN!!!!!
POLITICIANS CAN'T SEE THE LIGHT, THEY CAN ONLY FEEL THE HEAT!!!
2012 is going to be a very hot year.. Don't let the government bully you into paying UNLAWFUL tax on what you already own. Seek advice if necessary.

dxhound2005

THE SECRET COVENENT wrote: »

I got this from a member of the law society:-
Firstly, The Corporation and Co. Councils are registered companies, and as a registered company (See Company Law), YOU have to VOLINTARY enter into a contract with them in order for THEM to be able to charge YOU for the service!!!, or take you to court for non payment of same. This is why the government are using scare tactics to get people to register of their own acord.
Secondly, When will you decide you'r not going to pay any more property tax??
When it reaches 1000, 2000, or 3000,Euros plus, TOO LATE if you've already registered!!! You entered into an ever increasing contract so you suffer!!!.
Third, Once YOU "REGISTER" your property for "TAX", it is then technically no longer your property, FACT!!!!!
You want proof!!!! Ok, just stop paying after you've registered and see what happens.
Fourth, Would you believa a politician who tells you he won't take your "REGISTERED" property from you after a number of years non payment or being unable to pay the tax that YOU registered for???
Fifth, You have two choices:-
A.. "YOU" can join all of the people with a back bone, and are not only fighting for their rights, but for your rights too, by refusing to pay this UNLAWFUL property tax. OR>
B.. "YOU" can bend over, stick your head in the sand, and let the government "SHAFT" you for the rest of your life!!!
I guarantee there will be ultra rightwing people who will have to wallow in their ignorance of whats going on in this forsaken country by trying to belittle this thread, as they have done with other peoples comments, but youll have to understand that these hypocrites either don't want us to fight for our rights just because they happen to be part of the cause of all our problems, or just have masacistic tendancies.
NOTE!!!! THE "SHIFT" HAS HIT THE FAN!!!!!
POLITICIANS CANT SEE THE LIGHT, THEY CAN ONLY FEEL THE HEAT!!!
2012 is going to be a very hot year.. Don't let the government bully you.

Your lawyer friend may well be correct but please ask him how he would deal with this section of the act. It deals with the sale of properties.

(3) The vendor of a residential property shall, before the completion
of the sale of the property, pay to the relevant local authority
all household charges, late payment fees and late payment interest
due and owing to the relevant local authority in respect of that residential
property.
15 (4) On or before the completion of the sale of a residential property,
the vendor of that residential property shall, in respect of that
residential property, give to the purchaser—
(a) a certificate of discharge,
(b) a certificate of exemption, or
20 (c) a certificate of waiver,
as may be appropriate, in respect of each year in which a liability
date fell since the date of the last sale of the property.
(5) As against a bona fide purchaser or mortgagee of such property
for full consideration in money or money’s worth without notice,
25 or a person deriving title from or under such a purchaser or mortgagee,
a certificate of discharge, a certificate of waiver or a certificate
of exemption shall discharge the property concerned from liability
for any household charge and related late payment fee and late payment
interest due by the owner of that property for each year in
30 which the liability date or dates to which the certificate relates fell.
(6) A person who contravenes subsection (3) shall be guilty of an
offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a class C fine.


I would not be surprised if another of his legal colleagues dealing with the conveyancing would insist that this clause be adhered to even if the vendor had not registered the property.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

Bishop_Donal

Galtee wrote: »

You are dead right, you are entitled to what you earn, this is the whole point, people are earning the money but it's being taken straight out of their pocket again just as quick, it's a disgrace. And as for the red herring you mention, It doesn't matter whether the money is paid from todays wages or not, it's being taken off the people now so that the government can plug holes in sh1tty fcuking banks so whether the money is paid back today or in ten years it's the irish tax payer who will be paying it back ffs.

I'll try to make it simple for you.

The country is spending more than it is earning. That cannot be sustained. we need to either earn more or spend less. I know you mind find that tricky, but why don't you sleep on it. It might be clearer tomorrow.

You might think you are paying too many taxes / too much tax or not getting enough of the things you like. But all the services and infrastructure that you use has to be created and maintained by someone & Gunther has decided he doesn't give a toss whether it is there or not anymore.

Re: Banks. Try to read my comments again. Transferring or repaying Bank debt with ECB or IMF money is not taking it out of the Irish taxpayers pocket. The only impact so far is that the nominal Interest rate on our debt has increased. Again, it really doesn't matter, because it only applies to the most recent part of our National debt at this point, and any interest that is being repaid is being repaid by ECB / IMF money.

My key point is that we have to get our own house in order. Everyone will have to take their share of pain. It has to apply to the masses at this stage as if you tax the wealthy anymore they will remove their wealth and entrepreneurship from this country.

I have no problem with telling all bondholders (Prizebonds, Irish pensions and all) to go and bite our collective kipper if they think we will repay the full national debt, but I'd prefer to have our exchequer position in balance (net of interest on debt) before we do that. That way if the supply of finance is cut, we won't see 'Real' hardship on our doorsteps.

People need to grow up. The gap between public expenditure and income is our problem. Not the greedy bankers / developers or bad bad politicians. If we don't sort our own problem, someone else will.

Pay your household charge, or if you don't want to, take the consequences (quietly please).

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

I thought the tax was on property/properties an individual owns

What gives you our any other landlord the right to make someone else pay a tax that you are liable for?

Would you ask them to tax your car/TV etc?

Btw, I'll not be paying it either. If we all stood together rather than a bunch of cowardly sheep we could collectively tell fg a firm no.

Am in absolute shock that some clowns on here actually support this, wonder how they'll feel when it jumps up to a thousand or so in a few years time?

The tax is on property / properties that an individual owns.

No landlord has any right to make someone pay a tax that they are liable for. Landlords have a right to impose reasonable rent increases. Business is Business, the return has to cover the costs (at least to the greatest extent possible).

I wouldn't ask someone else to pay tax on my car. There is no tax on my TV, but there is a licence payment (extraordinarily bad value I must say). I wouldn't ask my tenants to pay either of those items because they wouldn't be able to rationalise why I would do something as unusual as that.

There are always people who default on their tax liabilities (a criminal offence). I am satisfied that it will prove worthwhile for the revenue to pursue these people in due course. There will be plenty of time (as ultimately a lot of charges and property tax will be levied through the channel now being set up). At a 42% penalty for a 12 month delay in payment, we'll see who ends up sheepish!!!!! Fine and dandy until you go to a conveyancing solicitor.

The clowns who don't pay their tax as it falls due will ultimately pay the 1,000's in the future as well as this charge & the penalties they accrue in the meantime.

Good Luck.

Gareth2011

Ogham wrote: »

If you don't pay it - they have to find you and prove you own a liable residential property before they can prosecute you or charge you penalties. The other main reason for this Household Charge legislation (as it clearly states) is " TO REQUIRE THE FURNISHING OF INFORMATION RELATING TO EACH SUCH PROPERTY TO ENABLE THE PREPARATION OF A DATABASE OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN THE STATE"
They don't know exactly who owns what or even where all the houses are.
They are relying on everyone to tell them. They are probably not going to have the people or the money to go out tracking down non payers for the sake of 100 euro.

Good Luck!

Wont be too hard to find you. If your employed they will get your address re Revenue. If your on Social they will get your address re Revenue. They know who owns what. Why do you think your bank has your pps no and passes it on to revenue for your current accounts or mortgage. That little number ties you to any account you have. currents, savings, mortgage anything. They are giving people the opertunity to register themselves so that they are not receiving letters straight off demanding the tax. They won't need people to go out looking for non payers. It will be taken from you wither way. Be it Social, wages, pension. The government wont let this slide and besides. If we keep fighting everything how are we meant to get out of this hole? Cant wait to see what you all say when income tax rises in the next budget. You going to fight that too?

In your words

Good Luck!

get off my lawn

feck em feck da lot of them tossers , anyways WORLDS ENDING 21ST DEC 2012:eek: spend the 100 quid on urself get sum enjoyment out of it:P before everything cuts black on said date

daenerysstormborn3

THE SECRET COVENENT wrote: »

I got this from a member of the law society:-
Firstly, The Corporation and Co. Councils are registered companies, and as a registered company (See Company Law), YOU have to VOLINTARY enter into a contract with them in order for THEM to be able to charge YOU for the service!!!, or take you to court for non payment of same. This is why the government are using scare tactics to get people to register of their own acord.
Secondly, When will you decide you'r not going to pay any more property tax??
When it reaches 1000, 2000, or 3000,Euros plus, TOO LATE if you've already registered!!! You entered into an ever increasing contract so you suffer!!!.
Third, Once YOU "REGISTER" your property for "TAX", it is then technically no longer your property, FACT!!!!!
You want proof!!!! Ok, just stop paying after you've registered and see what happens.
Fourth, Would you believe a politician who tells you he won't take your "REGISTERED" property from you after a number of years of non payment or being unable to pay the tax that YOU registered for???
Fifth, You have two choices:-
A.. "YOU" can join all of the people with a back bone, and are not only fighting for their rights, but for your rights too, by refusing to pay this UNLAWFUL property tax. OR>
B.. "YOU" can bend over, stick your head in the sand, and let the government "SHAFT" you for the rest of your life!!!
I guarantee there will be ultra rightwing people who whiloe wallowing in their own ignorance of whats going on in this forsaken country will trying to belittle this thread, as they have done with other peoples comments, but you'll have to understand that these hypocrites either don't want us to fight for our rights just because they happen to be part of the cause of all our problems, or just have masacistic tendancies, or are in politics.
NOTE!!!! THE "SHIFT" HAS HIT THE FAN!!!!!
POLITICIANS CAN'T SEE THE LIGHT, THEY CAN ONLY FEEL THE HEAT!!!
2012 is going to be a very hot year.. Don't let the government bully you into paying UNLAWFUL tax on what you already own. Seek advice if necessary.

That's funny because the same Law Society confirmed today that the new household charge becomes a charge on the title if it remains unpaid after the payment date ie the 31st of March.

CHRIS JERICHO

Nope

Callipo

yep.

I eventually had to pay my bin charges after 6 years of holding out. I don't recall any of our politicians doing jail time over that. nor will they over this...

It was a waste of time.

Waste....

I just lol'd to myself

Flex

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I'll try to make it simple for you.

The country is spending more than it is earning. That cannot be sustained. we need to either earn more or spend less. I know you mind find that tricky, but why don't you sleep on it. It might be clearer tomorrow.

You might think you are paying too many taxes / too much tax or not getting enough of the things you like. But all the services and infrastructure that you use has to be created and maintained by someone & Gunther has decided he doesn't give a toss whether it is there or not anymore.

Re: Banks. Try to read my comments again. Transferring or repaying Bank debt with ECB or IMF money is not taking it out of the Irish taxpayers pocket. The only impact so far is that the nominal Interest rate on our debt has increased. Again, it really doesn't matter, because it only applies to the most recent part of our National debt at this point, and any interest that is being repaid is being repaid by ECB / IMF money.

My key point is that we have to get our own house in order. Everyone will have to take their share of pain. It has to apply to the masses at this stage as if you tax the wealthy anymore they will remove their wealth and entrepreneurship from this country.

I have no problem with telling all bondholders (Prizebonds, Irish pensions and all) to go and bite our collective kipper if they think we will repay the full national debt, but I'd prefer to have our exchequer position in balance (net of interest on debt) before we do that. That way if the supply of finance is cut, we won't see 'Real' hardship on our doorsteps.

People need to grow up. The gap between public expenditure and income is our problem. Not the greedy bankers / developers or bad bad politicians. If we don't sort our own problem, someone else will.

Pay your household charge, or if you don't want to, take the consequences (quietly please).

Really wish people would read the above and let it sink in. The cost of providing Public Services and Social Welfare (hospitals, schools, Garda, unemployment assistance, pensions, etc.) and maintaining the country is approx €50B a year. The states revenue is approx €34B a year now. THAT IS WHY GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS BEING CUT AND TAXES RAISED. The bailout added to our national debt, its not the cause of our deficit, theres a difference. And the reason extra taxes wont improve services and welfare is because the taxes we pay right now dont even come close to covering the services and welfare we have here. We only enjoy the current level of services and welfare (poor as they may be in some areas) because we're living on a finite amount of borrowed money to plug the €16B hole.

Bishop_Donal

Callipo wrote: »

yep.

I eventually had to pay my bin charges after 6 years of holding out. I don't recall any of our politicians doing jail time over that. nor will they over this...

It was a waste of time.

Waste....

I just lol'd to myself

You'll never beat city hall.

The plonkers who don't pay their household charge will find out the hard way cos they'll get hammered with fines too.

Interesting that those who are so vocal against it, seem to have somewhere better to go on a Friday night:D I wonder where they cud be?

K-9

Flex wrote: »

Really wish people would read the above and let it sink in. The cost of providing Public Services and Social Welfare (hospitals, schools, Garda, unemployment assistance, pensions, etc.) and maintaining the country is approx €50B a year. The states revenue is approx €34B a year now. THAT IS WHY GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS BEING CUT AND TAXES RAISED. The bailout added to our national debt, its not the cause of our deficit, theres a difference. And the reason extra taxes wont improve services and welfare is because the taxes we pay right now dont even come close to covering the services and welfare we have here. We only enjoy the current level of services and welfare (poor as they may be in some areas) because we're living on a finite amount of borrowed money to plug the €16B hole.

I don't think people want to comprehend the scale of it, so diverting the attention onto banks diverts the attention.

The state borrowed €18 Billion last before any bank or credit union payments.

Guess how much we take in with Income Tax? €13.5 Billion!

Am Chile

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

You'll never beat city hall.

The plonkers who don't pay their household charge will find out the hard way cos they'll get hammered with fines too.

Interesting that those who are so vocal against it, seem to have somewhere better to go on a Friday night:D I wonder where they cud be?

Really? well all those who boycotted the water charges last time,and all those who boycotted the poll tax beat city hall didn,t they,make threats of fines all they want, I won,t be paying,and a lot of other people won,t either.

Am Chile

Callipo wrote: »

yep.

I eventually had to pay my bin charges after 6 years of holding out. I don't recall any of our politicians doing jail time over that. nor will they over this...

It was a waste of time.

Waste....

I just lol'd to myself

Joe Higgins and Clare Daily went to jail over it, so too did other activists.

Callipo

Am Chile wrote: »

Joe Higgins and Clare Daily went to jail over it, so too did other activists.

This is the internet.

Show me links to the facts you stated?

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

Really? well all those who boycotted the water charges last time,and all those who boycotted the poll tax beat city hall didn,t they,make threats of fines all they want, I won,t be paying,and a lot of other people won,t either.

If you're referring to the poll tax in the England it was replaced two years after it's abolition by the Council Tax which averages just under £1200 per dwelling.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/corporate/statistics/counciltax201112

BTW the ' on my keyboard is on the key which also has the @ symbol. Try it.

Am Chile

Callipo wrote: »

This is the internet.

Show me links to the facts you stated?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/jail-sentences-for-joe-higgins-and-clare-daly-114124.html

There,s a hell of a difference between the anti household tax campaign and the previous anti bin tax campaign, the anti bin tax wasn,t nationwide, it was more in the bigger cities like dublin, when the anti bin tax campaign was going on I never recalled any public meetings in my town about it, the anti household tax campaign was held over 100 crowded meetings all around the country in every county which the anti bin tax campaign never did, plus the anti bin tax campaign didn,t have 18 tds on its side all boycotting like the anti household tax campaign does,as well as a signifigant number of councilers prepared to boycott too,to anyone like you who comes across as Il pay but reluctanly, I just say,hold off until the middle of march,and see the anti household tax campaign is going in your local area.

blackdog2

The basics of it are: "Better value for money? Naaahhh, lets get a 100 squidlingtons off everyone. Even if we are paying for that 100 squidlingtons in that first place. Job done. Pints?"

Bishop_Donal

Am Chile wrote: »

Really? well all those who boycotted the water charges last time,and all those who boycotted the poll tax beat city hall didn,t they,make threats of fines all they want, I won,t be paying,and a lot of other people won,t either.

Let me know where I can get the free refuse collection now?

As far as I can see everyone pays for it now. Also the whole service has been privitised and I see projections that the average household refuse collection will rise to c.1,000 in the coming years?

As far as I am aware, people in general had to pay retrospectively to have their service re-instated.

That was a fair old win for Higgins, Daly and Co alright (if that was what they were aiming for). Pity they weren't left in Jail if you ask me.

Honest opinion

It boils down to 36.5 cent a day =p all TD's who refuse to pay should lose their seats

Ghost Buster

After hearing that the majority of people living on ghost estates will have to pay i am sitting back on the issue to see what happens. How in the hell can it be fair for folk on estates without basic services be expected to pay for exactly what they are not getting!!!

Gareth2011

get off my lawn wrote: »

feck em feck da lot of them tossers , anyways WORLDS ENDING 21ST DEC 2012:eek: spend the 100 quid on urself get sum enjoyment out of it:P before everything cuts black on said date

Watched prog about this the other day. Its not going to end. Just because the calander ends on that date they don't say the world will end, they don't give any info on ihow it will happen. Personally id listen to science and Nasa before id listen to a bunch of doomsday fanatics. All hell didnt break in 2000 either like it was supposed too.

dxhound2005

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Watched prog about this the other day. Its not going to end. Just because the calander ends on that date they don't say the world will end, they don't give any info on ihow it will happen. Personally id listen to science and Nasa before id listen to a bunch of doomsday fanatics. All hell didnt break in 2000 either like it was supposed too.

Yeah, but you would feel such a fool if you had paid your €100 and the world actually did end.

Gareth2011

Well I guess il be a fool then if it does end.

Buford Tannen

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

The clowns who don't pay their tax as it falls due will ultimately pay the 1,000's in the future as well as this charge & the penalties they accrue in the meantime.

Good Luck.

But the clowns who do pay will lose 1000's more when the try and sell a property with an annual lifetime tax attached to it

bossdrum

For all the people who are running to pay this tax as quick as they can because its the law, can ye please tell me at what point would enough be enough?


Is there any point at which ye would not pay or are all these people in the civil/public service and continue to get increments that will rely on the rest of us to keep paying increased taxes?

Am Chile

Honest opinion wrote: »

It boils down to 36.5 cent a day =p all TD's who refuse to pay should lose their seats

Yeah sure its only 36.5 cent a day ,sure its only less then a two euros a week now, it will be very Interesting to see if you will still be singing from the same hymm sheet, if they succeed with it, and Increase it to a 1,000 a week combined with water charges.

He said that would see an eventual charge per house of €1,000 per year.

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/tabId/153/itemId/12052/Stop-the-taxes.aspx

Which a €1,000 a year would work out at €19.23 a week, meaning it would be €2.74 a day,you would be asked to pay, like I said if they succeed with this household tax, if it jumps its real amounts it be very Interesting to see you sing from the same hymm sheet then.

bossdrum

Honest opinion wrote: »

It boils down to 36.5 cent a day =p all TD's who refuse to pay should lose their seats

365 days x 36.5c = €133.23

I hope one of us never works/worked in the Dept. of Finance or maybe we do?

Dr. Feelgood

Buford Tannen wrote: »

But the clowns who do pay will lose 1000's more when the try and sell a property with an annual lifetime tax attached to it

I'd imagine there will be a system in place making sure anyone who buys a new home automatically signs up for this charge.

Carter P Fly

So, has there actually been any official communication that this is to be paid an how its to be paid?