Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Pete M.

Lt. Frank Drebin wrote: »

Cheers, thanks for the info :-) I'll look it up an get it done an over with!!! :-(

Don't do it Frank!!! :eek:

Think of the children!!

None of the arguments on here in favour of paying are going to convince me that it is the right thing to do to pay this.

http://www.nohouseholdtax.org/

Bishop_Donal

THE SECRET COVENENT wrote: »

OOOOUUUUU Whose an angry boy then??? Touch on a sore point did I?????
SCARED more people will refuse to register when they find out that although it's not technically ILLEGAL, It IS VERRY UNLAWFUL>!!!!!!!!

Read it again DICK-HEAD I never used the word ILLEGAL I said UNLAWFUL and if you lot in the government can't tell the difference then I'm not going to explain it to you.
And on wonder we're in this mess.!!!!!¬!¬

I think unlawful is something that's against the law, whereas illegal is a sick bird?

Muckit

Carter P Fly wrote: »

Ill pay because I'm a grownup and a professional and dont need courts and convictions in my life for the sake of a hundred quid.

Bought for a hundred lids. Nice

cadaliac

As stated before, if the money was going to a local authority, I would have no issue with it.
However, no one can prove that the money will even stay in the country let alone go towards a local authority.
Until this can be proven (to me) I have no intention of paying.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

You'll never beat city hall.

The plonkers who don't pay their household charge will find out the hard way cos they'll get hammered with fines too.

Interesting that those who are so vocal against it, seem to have somewhere better to go on a Friday night:D I wonder where they cud be?

Eh, at twelve thirty six AM, how's about bed?:rolleyes:

mickydoomsux

cadaliac wrote: »

As stated before, if the money was going to a local authority, I would have no issue with it.
However, no one can prove that the money will even stay in the country let alone go towards a local authority.
Until this can be proven (to me) I have no intention of paying.

It'll all go into the big "income" column in the governments account, the same as every other charge, tax, levy, etc.

Where it goes after that is irrelevant really.

Bishop_Donal

cadaliac wrote: »

As stated before, if the money was going to a local authority, I would have no issue with it.
However, no one can prove that the money will even stay in the country let alone go towards a local authority.
Until this can be proven (to me) I have no intention of paying.

Yet you are prepared to use public infrastructure without knowing exactly where the funds that put it in place come from??

Geuze

The HC does go to the LA, yes.

But they will receive 160m less from Central Govt.

So you are replacing the Central Exchequer as a part-funder of LA.

Am Chile

cadaliac wrote: »

As stated before, if the money was going to a local authority, I would have no issue with it.
However, no one can prove that the money will even stay in the country let alone go towards a local authority.
Until this can be proven (to me) I have no intention of paying.

IM glad some people ask where the money will be going.

You should take the following into account.

DESPITE Government claims that the household charge will pay for local services, there is not a line about income from the charge in the council's budget for 2012

Head of Finance at the council, Pat Keane said there was 'no benefit to the local authority' or the people of Fingal from the charge

the county's head of finance says there will be 'no benefit' for the council from the controversial new charge.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/household-charge-bringing-no-benefit-2974413.html

Geuze

The HC will be paid into the Local Govt Fund, from which LA draw funds.

However, the LA won't get any more income than now, because the Central Govt is contributing 160m less into the Local Govt Fund than last year.


http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/LocalGovernmentAdministration/LocalGovernmentFinance/

•Local Government Fund - General Purpose Grant


The Local Government Fund (LGF) is a special central fund which was established in 1999 under the Local Government Act 1998. It is financed by the full proceeds of motor tax and an Exchequer contribution. The Fund provides local authorities with the finance for general discretionary funding of their day-to-day activities and for non-national roads, and funding for certain local government initiatives.

JimiTime

where do i go from here wrote: »

Who forced you to buy a house?
Unless it was at gunpoint I have no sympathy for you.

There is a system in this country, whereby if you are a family of very modest means, you are not entitled to pretty much anything, including a home. It was left to the market. So in this system there are pretty much two options. Private tenancy, or mortgaging. Now, this system also provides no protection for tenants of private landlords. So on a whim, you can be pretty much be served notice to leave the property (Something that may sound 'meh' to a bachelor or spinster with no dependants, but means a hell of a lot to someone with a family). This system also served to encourage people to buy houses to rent them out. They can just rent it out, don't have to think about any sense of responsibility to the tenants etc, just make a fast buck. So as a person who witnessed such a thing happen to friends, some with children with special needs. having to uproot them, move schools, leave friends in some incidents etc, I felt the best thing was to have a place that I would give my children a secure home. It was certainly not a gun to the head, but FFS, it wasn't like there were many choices. Of course, if I had been captain hindsight like so many of the Tw@ts I see bitching about those looking for a break, buried by negative equity, rising rates, pay reductions, price of living increases and more taxes, then I'd have chose differently. My only sin that it was 2005 when I reached the time in my life when these choices were required to be made (Married, planning a family). Not only did the housing market crash happen though, but also the greatest fiscal collapse in a lifetime too. I wish people would have a bit more feckin empathy.

Geuze

It's true to say that LA income will not increase, yes.

It's also true to say that hoseholders won't get any more or better services due to the HC.

A local tax replaces a Central Govt grant to LA.

Ogham

Am Chile wrote: »

How wrong you are on that one.


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/landlords-will-pass-on-the-euro100-household-charge-to-tenants-following-introduction-in-budget-2965638.html

I think that the landlords might have backed down on that ...

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/ipoa-withdraws-advice-on-passing-household-charge-on-to-tenants.html

Anyway - landlords can't up the rent whenever thay want. It can only be every 12 months, and cannot be in the first 12 months of tenancy..
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

Icepick

It's a good thing that a lot of people don't want to pay.

...It means they will collect even more from fines.

zenno wrote: »

the criminal government won't be forcing me to register and pay I can assure you.

Don't worry, FF gvt. is gone.

dxhound2005

Pete M. wrote: »

Don't do it Frank!!! :eek:

Think of the children!!

None of the arguments on here in favour of paying are going to convince me that it is the right thing to do to pay this.

http://www.nohouseholdtax.org/

I took a look at that website. Two of the names contributing appear to be linked with the Socialist Workers Party (and there could be others). By defintion everybody liable for the charge is the owner of a private property. Not the sort of people generally who would lean towards revolutionary socialism.

K-9

THE SECRET COVENENT wrote: »

To ALL you poor sods that payed!!, And those who are thinking about it.

So you decided to pay tax on something you already own!! HMMMMM???
When will you decide your not paying it any more?, when it reaches 1000, 2000, 3000, Euros + ???? Well "YOU" can't refuse to pay NOW, if you have entered into an agreement with the government!!!! . Your ONLY hope now is that enough people with a backbone will fight to have this unlawful tax abolished.. The 100 Euro is only a token fee to trick you into registering.. Obviously you did'nt think this through.
It's simple as follows:-
A.. The corporation and Co. Conncils are registered companies, (See Company Law).
B.. A company can'not force you into a contract (by law) without your concent, hence the heavy persuasion by the government!!!.
C.. By Law, YOU can'not be prosicuted for breaking a contract that you have NOT ("REGISTERED") i.e. entered into in the first place. i.e. CONTRACT DOES'NT EXIST.
D.. YOU sign YOU suffer!!! If you enter into an agreement to pay tax on your property, then that property is no longer "YOUR'S" FACT!!!!!!!!!!!..
"Prove it!!!" I hear you say!!!
O.K. 1. In a few years when you really are SKINT and have NO money to pay the ever increasing tax that you blindly walked into, what do YOU think the government will say when you tell them you cant aford the tax????. They'll let it run for a set number of years and most likely force you through the courts to sell your home to cover what YOU owe them plus penalties ect, etc. Think they won't? THINK AGAIN!!!!
2. Assuming against all the odds this country did get back on its feet say, five years from now. Try going to the government and telling them, "The countrys fine now so I'd like to unregister for tax now".. Where do you think they'll tell you to go???????.
Ask yourself these simple questions before you sign the RIGHTS of YOUR property over to E.U./IMF Puppets :-
1.. How long did I pay my mortgage for, or will I be paying it for???
2.. How many thousands of Euros did, or am I paying for my house???
3.. How hard did, or am I working to have a home I can call MY OWN???
4.. How many things did I sacrifice to have a home without having to keep PAYING for it
5.. Now ask yourself!!. How many " MINUTES" does it take to register into an agreement that can be chopped and changed WITHOUT my concent and will leave me in a situation where I will never be guaranteed the security of my own home for the rest of my life????.
The choice is "YOURS" Happy New Year..

Somebody has been reading the freeman nonsense on the internet and taking it a bit too seriously.

K-9

cadaliac wrote: »

As stated before, if the money was going to a local authority, I would have no issue with it.
However, no one can prove that the money will even stay in the country let alone go towards a local authority.
Until this can be proven (to me) I have no intention of paying.

As others said this tax is going towards maintaining Council services or probably more accurately, less cuts in them.

It's the same as any other extra tax you pay, the increase in VAT, the USC, increased Income Tax by stealth, it's going towards trying to pay for welfare, PS pay, trying to keep as many schools, hospitals, Garda Barracks open as possible, that type of stuff.

Gareth2011

THE SECRET COVENENT wrote: »

The government must be really ****TING themselves, I notice they have a higher number of stooges than usual coming on the internet lately.
All trying to push people into registering for tax while slandering the oppisition.
Who in their right mind would want to pay this ualawful tax.
MORE IMPORTANT why are the same names popping up everywhere trying to support it ??????
By the way GARETH2011,
Regards Deeds, You only get COPPIES, the government holds the ORIGIONALS . Why is that ????
Also, these days its the government who is breaking the law by going against the will of the people.
Plus they appear to be making their own laws up as they go along.

Give me a break will you. I don't give a sh*t who holds the originals deeds. Once i pay my mortgage and everything i squared off im happy. They can't legally say they own the property if the deeds say you own it. Btw has there EVER been a government that has ONLY done what the people wanted? And of course they can make up laws as they go thats what governments do. We would look a bit stupid now if drink driving wasn't updated since 1950 now wouldn't we.

Merch

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You eventually will (or someone else will when you die).

Late payment penalties will apply as follows :

Payments made within 3 and 6 months of January 2012 – a 10% penalty.
Payments made between 6 and 12 months late – a 20% penalty.
Payments more than 12 months late – a 30% penalty plus 1% interest per month

So – if someone is 12 months late paying the €100 household charge – they will owe €130 plus another €12 interest – a total of €142.


If charges remain unpaid a charge will remain attached to the property

Selling House : A vendor of a residential property must pay any household charge, late payment fee and late payment interest due on the property and give a certificate of discharge, exemption or waiver in respect of each liability date during the vendor’s ownership to a purchaser on or before the sale or transfer can be completed.

Cant see why people are jumping to pay early, at the worst its worth holding out to see how the NO campaign/refusal to acknowledge the whole thing goes, if everyone holds off to see we can see the outcome for the sake of 10 euro late fee for 6 months.
Got from post 1-30 before giving up to reply, to many other posters quoted.
If I could see what service I was getting for this/ if all taxes were itemised then Id be happy to pay for services according to their cost and based on quality of service delivered, as it happens this all goes into a pot.
Substantial cuts to Govt/civil/public sector pays at the high levels, Im not advocating a hate the PS or cut those on the lower end of the scale, but the numbers need to be cut or moved to where they are useful and efficiency/value for money for service introduced. If someone doesnt have the skills for their PS job then they shouldnt have it, retrain or replace them if needed or let them go if not.

Gareth2011

Merch wrote: »

Cant see why people are jumping to pay early, at the worst its worth holding out to see how the NO campaign/refusal to acknowledge the whole thing goes, if everyone holds off to see we can see the outcome for the sake of 10 euro late fee for 6 months.

Some people are paying early just to get it overwith, some are paying because they agree with. I personally agree with it. This thing of not wanting to pay this or that. Its quite simple. If people keep trying to boycott every single thing thats done because its hitting their pockets we will never ever get out of the recession. I bet people wouldn't be going as mad if FF were still in power. Old school who the older generation loved cause thats all they knew was Fianna Failure. End of the day people don't want a rap for not paying or paying more than they have too. Yeah 10 euro for late payment of 6 months. people are complaining about 2 euro a week, alot less than 20 fags or a pint.

tayto lover

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Some people are paying early just to get it overwith, some are paying because they agree with. I personally agree with it. This thing of not wanting to pay this or that. Its quite simple. If people keep trying to boycott every single thing thats done because its hitting their pockets we will never ever get out of the recession. I bet people wouldn't be going as mad if FF were still in power. Old school who the older generation loved cause thats all they knew was Fianna Failure. End of the day people don't want a rap for not paying or paying more than they have too. Yeah 10 euro for late payment of 6 months. people are complaining about 2 euro a week, alot less than 20 fags or a pint.

It will buy a lot of fags in a few years. Wait and see.

Gareth2011

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I took a look at that website. Two of the names contributing appear to be linked with the Socialist Workers Party (and there could be others). By defintion everybody liable for the charge is the owner of a private property. Not the sort of people generally who would lean towards revolutionary socialism.

The main photo on home page makes them look like they are Rough and ready.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

It will buy a lot of fags in a few years. Wait and see.

I hope they jack up the price of fags to a level that it won't!!

They are (contribution to) screwing up the health service.

Merch

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Some people are paying early just to get it overwith, some are paying because they agree with. I personally agree with it. This thing of not wanting to pay this or that. Its quite simple. If people keep trying to boycott every single thing thats done because its hitting their pockets we will never ever get out of the recession. I bet people wouldn't be going as mad if FF were still in power. Old school who the older generation loved cause thats all they knew was Fianna Failure. End of the day people don't want a rap for not paying or paying more than they have too. Yeah 10 euro for late payment of 6 months. people are complaining about 2 euro a week, alot less than 20 fags or a pint.

Just to get it over with? thats simply not enough reason
I wouldnt rule it out as an option if there was some possibility to know that it will actually contribute to services locally in the area of payment, but does it?? its not just a matter of disagreeing with it for the sake of it. there is no garauntee that it will simply continue to go up and up, which are my concerns.
For six months, its 10 euro penalty, the whole thing might falter in that time or be renegotiated.

The Quadratic Equation

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Some people are paying early just to get it overwith, some are paying because they agree with. I personally agree with it. This thing of not wanting to pay this or that. Its quite simple. If people keep trying to boycott every single thing thats done because its hitting their pockets we will never ever get out of the recession. I bet people wouldn't be going as mad if FF were still in power. Old school who the older generation loved cause thats all they knew was Fianna Failure. End of the day people don't want a rap for not paying or paying more than they have too. Yeah 10 euro for late payment of 6 months. people are complaining about 2 euro a week, alot less than 20 fags or a pint.

So exactly what makes FF/FG/Lab different ?

ilovesleep

I thought the household charge was something temporary to help bridge a gap, to be replaced eventually with a property tax.

That's looking unlikely now.

The next line of cuts:
http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/179187-next-round-cuts.html

The plan is to merge the tv license with the household charge so goodness knows how much we will be paying.
Maybe 260 euro a year,
In conjunction with a property tax,
Water charges

On top of all the other living expenses include septic tank inspectipns and replacements.

At the same time seeing wastage with over inflated wages at the top - politicians, pat kenny,

Gareth2011

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

So exactly what makes FF/FG/Lab different ?

There is no difference in them at all. I meant FF was in power for so long that people took whatthey were given. Be it good or bad but in saying that FF were in power through the good times and even when they did make cuts during the recession they weren't cutting deep because there was wiggle room. Now that they are gone there is FG & Lab that have to make deep hard hitting cuts because there is feck all wiggle room left and people can't take it.

They seem to think there is this way and that way to make cuts and savings. I doubt they sit there stewing thinking of ways to really hurt people so they wont get re-elected next term. Quite the oppisite infact. They were the only government to try to help people who bought during the boom when property was overpriced and large mortgages took hold. Granted people didn't have tio take on large mortgages but sure we all thought the good times would never end and FF saw it coming but kept their mouths shut because they had wiggle room.

dxhound2005

ilovesleep wrote: »

I thought the household charge was something temporary to help bridge a gap, to be replaced eventually with a property tax.

That's looking unlikely now.

The next line of cuts:
http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/179187-next-round-cuts.html

The plan is to merge the tv license with the household charge so goodness knows how much we will be paying.
Maybe 260 euro a year,
In conjunction with a property tax,
Water charges

On top of all the other living expenses include septic tank inspectipns and replacements.

At the same time seeing wastage with over inflated wages at the top - politicians, pat kenny,

It's a list of proposals not an agreed plan. The way I read it is that the TV licence could be incorporated into the household charge. This could be a good idea as currently the TV licence can be evaded whereas the household charge remains attached to the title of the property to be paid eventually. Of course this would only apply to private householders not council house tenants so it could be seen to be inequatible by some. The other proposals include things which I have heard a lot of people asking for like rationalising quangos.

Included on the hitlist of 44 quangos identified for rationalisation, amalgamation or abolition include: an Bord Iascaigh Mhara; The Heritage Council; Culture Ireland; the Digital Hub; 35 city and council enterprise boards; the Companies Registration Office; Forfas; Shannon Development, the Labour Court, the Labour Relations Commission; the Employment Appeals Tribunal and the Health and Safety Authority.

ilovesleep

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's a list of proposals not an agreed plan. The way I read it is that the TV licence could be incorporated into the household charge. This could be a good idea as currently the TV licence can be evaded whereas the household charge remains attached to the title of the property to be paid eventually. Of course this would only apply to private householders not council house tenants so it could be seen to be inequatible by some. The other proposals include things which I have heard a lot of people asking for like rationalising quangos.

Included on the hitlist of 44 quangos identified for rationalisation, amalgamation or abolition include: an Bord Iascaigh Mhara; The Heritage Council; Culture Ireland; the Digital Hub; 35 city and council enterprise boards; the Companies Registration Office; Forfas; Shannon Development, the Labour Court, the Labour Relations Commission; the Employment Appeals Tribunal and the Health and Safety Authority.

When I was renting and living alone I didn't have a tv and others like me too. Few and far between I'm sure. What the hell are they evading?

For people who do have tvs there are many people who don't even watch tv on it and use it for game playing or dvds.
The tv license is also old and outdate and came in at a time when people were just getting in tvs long before such things as game consoles, videos/dvds, sky came in

The license is going to pay RTE where there is far too much wastage happening with the stars wages because of the Loreal they're worth it effect. That wastage has to be cut.

We've got two very good stations that can run brillantly on low budgets - tv3 and TG4. Get rid of RTE.

theTinker

I dont pay the TV license at the moment as I disagree since I never ever use any channel input or look at any Tv programs. I youtube most news etc.
I use my TV for a computer monitor for watching movies.

I'd be much more inclined now to NOT pay the household charge if they are proposing that it could be attached to the property tax. It makes it alot harder to fight charges if they are all attached together, since some charges are reasonable. eg like water rates.

Tv license though? Its no different than my oven or my regular monitor so I will be boycotting the household charge for the year and seeing how it plays out. My boycotting is the only support i can give to stop it.

I dont agree with paying taxes on things i've purchased after the point of sale. I wouldnt buy most things if I expected a a forced charge after it without any standards or pre agreed.
I pay taxes for on going service usage or a contribution towards new constructed/provided services which would make things better.