Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

otto_26

We are all sneaky dirty paddys we say we wont pay it but we all really know what will happen...

The Quadratic Equation

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

What essential services that I'm not already paying will this go towards?

The bondholders, bankers and golden circle's cocktails on a tax free Caymen Island's beach.

"Oh what lovely weather, I wonder what the gullible workers in Ireland are doing to day lol lol lol, cheers, lol, clink, clink"

Galtee

otto_26 wrote: »

We are all sneaky dirty paddys we say we wont pay it but we all really know what will happen...

Oi, I'm not dirty!

Bishop_Donal

I can't believe this discussion is still ongoing.

We Irish have a problem. We cannot afford the way we are living. It has nothing to do with Banks, Bank bailouts, Senior bonds etc etc.

We are just spending way more that we earn.

Yet when our government seeks to impose a miserable Eur100 on each household, it appears that a certain class of individuals get all principled and decide to dig the heals in.

I think it is pure disgusting that people seem to have no sense of ownership of the problems that we face as a people, and I know I'll get hammered for my view again (not that it will change it one iota). The lack of sense of patriotism is unreal. People who refuse to take their share of the burden are not Irish as far as I'm concerned.

mikom

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I think it is pure disgusting that people seem to have no sense of ownership of the problems that we face as a people,

Ownership like the USC, insurance levies, the VAT increase etc.....
Plenty of ownership there.
All already being paid by those who are not to blame.
GTF.


If it's a miserable Eur100 on each household then ya won't miss mine

The Quadratic Equation

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

It has nothing to do with Banks, Bank bailouts, Senior bonds etc etc.

Since when did a very manageable 18 billion budget deficit = 250 billion of private debts that the Irish taxpayer has to pay off on top of ordinary public debt ???

That's some nice little cosy insultated brainwashed world you're living in !

LOL, yes lets ignore the 250 BILLION of the fat rich golden cirlce's private gambling debts that are now going to be paid back by the ordinary Irish worker instead.

Lets make them pay € 160 million for a scam charge while we hand over 1.3 billion to ONE SINGLE SECRET NAMELESS ANGLO IRISH BONDHOLDER THIS YEAR ALONE, never mind the other 248.3 BILLION of Irish taxpayers we're going to hand over.
This one bondholder could be Bertie, or Seanie, or Fingers for all we know, never mind all the others.

WHO ARE THEY ???

WHY CAN THEY NOT BE NAMED ?

WAKE UP YOU FECKING MORONS

Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us.

Irish insolvency is now less a matter of economics than of arithmetic. If everything goes according to plan, as it always does, Ireland’s government debt will top €190 billion by 2014, with another €45 billion in Nama and €35 billion in bank recapitalisation, for a total of €270 billion, plus whatever losses the Irish Central Bank has made on its emergency lending. Subtracting off the likely value of the banks and Nama assets, Namawinelake (by far the best source on the Irish economy) reckons our final debt will be about €220 billion, and I think it will be closer to €250 billion, but these differences are immaterial: either way we are talking of a Government debt that is more than €120,000 per worker, or 60 per cent larger than GNP.

In other words, we have embarked on a futile game of passing the parcel of insolvency: first from the banks to the Irish State, and next from the State back to the banks and insurance companies. The eventual outcome will likely see Ireland as some sort of EU protectorate, Europe’s answer to Puerto Rico.

National survival requires that Ireland walk away from the bailout.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

The lack of sense of patriotism is unreal.

Yes, we should all fck off and die for politicians like Bertie and Inda. lol.

Since the collapse of our economy, patriotism in Ireland has now been exposed and proven to be bullsht manipulation of the gullible. All we did was swap corrupt oppressors with English accents for corrupt oppressors with Irish ones.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775

You can stick your patriotism manipulation scam up your hole.

After seeing how the golden circle in this country operate, and how they ruined the lives of many ordinary Irish people, my country is me and my family. It's survival of the fittest from now on.

1916 MY HOLE

Watch and learn :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ebftIo_qu4

Ghandee

We should stop delaying the inevitable.

Stick two fingers up to the IMF, tell them, and the bond holders to stick their bailout and take what's coming to us (lets face it, we will default sooner or later)

The sooner a govt with a set of balls take the reigns the better as far as i'm concerned!

dxhound2005

When the campaign has smashed the househould charge here any chance it could organise in the North. The people there are forced to pay domestic rates of something like £800.

Joshua Jones

Ghandee wrote: »

We should stop delaying the inevitable.

Stick two fingers up to the IMF, tell them, and the bond holders to stick their bailout and take what's coming to us (lets face it, we will default sooner or later)

The sooner a govt with a set of balls take the reigns the better as far as i'm concerned!

The current economic model has failed, and failed spectaularly. There is no amount of bail outs or tricky accounting that is going to change it. People have too much invested in this system to just let it die, but it only delays the inevitable.

The Quadratic Equation

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When the campaign has smashed the househould charge here any chance it could organise in the North. The people there are forced to pay domestic rates of something like £800.

Doubtful, as unlike us they already pay much less taxes overall instead, and do not have to bail out corrupt golden circle cronies and their private speculation debts and SCAMA to the tune of 250 billion.

dxhound2005

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Doubtful, as unlike us they already pay much less taxes overall instead, and do not have to bail out corrupt golden circle cronies and their private speculation debts and SCAMA to the tune of 250 billion.

How much less overall?

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When the campaign has smashed the househould charge here any chance it could organise in the North. The people there are forced to pay domestic rates of something like £800.

Lol ^

When you understand how rates(and income tax, vat rates etc) in the north work, and what actual services and amenities come with it, get back to me on this one buddy.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Lol ^

When you understand how rates(and income tax, vat rates etc) in the north work, and what actual services and amenities come with it, get back to me on this one buddy.

Tell me.

Frank Black

Ghandee wrote: »

We should stop delaying the inevitable.

Stick two fingers up to the IMF, tell them, and the bond holders to stick their bailout and take what's coming to us (lets face it, we will default sooner or later)

The sooner a govt with a set of balls take the reigns the better as far as i'm concerned!

I count my blessings everytime i goto an atm, that while people like you may be vocal, you are an insignificant minority.

Here's hoping it stays that way.

Bullseye1

Do you honestly believe it will be €100 per house in 2013 or 2014? If it was confirmed that it was going to be just €100 going forward I think most people would except without question. But it won't. A number of well respected economists have suggested that it will need to be €1000 per year.

Any why is there so many exemptions? Everyone should be paying it. The days of exemption are long past. And if you are renting a local authority house you should also be paying this.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I can't believe this discussion is still ongoing.

We Irish have a problem. We cannot afford the way we are living. It has nothing to do with Banks, Bank bailouts, Senior bonds etc etc.

We are just spending way more that we earn.

Yet when our government seeks to impose a miserable Eur100 on each household, it appears that a certain class of individuals get all principled and decide to dig the heals in.

I think it is pure disgusting that people seem to have no sense of ownership of the problems that we face as a people, and I know I'll get hammered for my view again (not that it will change it one iota). The lack of sense of patriotism is unreal. People who refuse to take their share of the burden are not Irish as far as I'm concerned.

The Quadratic Equation

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How much less overall?

That depends on what you earn, but overall I paid a lot less tax, stealth taxes, and levies in NI when I lived and worked there.

dxhound2005

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

That depends on what you earn, but overall I paid a lot less tax, stealth taxes, and levies in NI when I lived and worked there.

I didn't know they had stealth taxes.

Buford Tannen

Dr. Feelgood wrote: »

I'd imagine there will be a system in place making sure anyone who buys a new home automatically signs up for this charge.

I'd imagine there will be a system in place were anyone who looks to buy a new home will offer, lets see 30yrs of property tax less than the asking price too.

dxhound2005

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe it will be €100 per house in 2013 or 2014? If it was confirmed that it was going to be just €100 going forward I think most people would except without question. But it won't. A number of well respected economists have suggested that it will need to be €1000 per year.

Any why is there so many exemptions? Everyone should be paying it. The days of exemption are long past. And if you are renting a local authority house you should also be paying this.

It has already been announced that the household charge will be replaced with a property tax. The only thing certain is that the charge is €100 in 2012 and I don't know what it will be in 2013 and beyond. If anyone is giving you figures ask them how they know.

I think the reason council tenants were exempted was to avoid a bigger campaign of resistance. In the longer term I could see them being increased to take account of the property tax but this is just speculation on my part.

Buford Tannen

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

The tax will be payable on the property for a new purchaser irrespective of whether the previous owner was tax compliant or a criminal.

You can apply a yield of your choosing and apply it to the amount (or indeed likely future amount of the household charge / property tax) and deduct it off the capital value of all houses now.

The only difference that will apply between people who have paid it and those who havn't, is that the latter category will find that there is a charge (representing the tax due and penalties and interest thereon) sitting on the property. Unlikely that this will be a material problem as most of them will have been traced and forced to pay their arrears one way or another in advance of sale anyway.

So you do admit it will devalue homes.Are yo hoping to expand you're empire Mr Landlord

dxhound2005

Buford Tannen wrote: »

I'd imagine there will be a system in place were anyone who looks to buy a new home will offer, lets see 30yrs of property tax less than the asking price too.

Is that how the market works in other countries with property taxes e.g. England £1200 per dwelling?

Bishop_Donal

black francis wrote: »

I count my blessings everytime i goto an atm, that while people like you may be vocal, you are an insignificant minority.

Here's hoping it stays that way.

THANK GOD FOR A RATIONAL PERSON.

Not alone do you count your blessings, but also the blessings all the elderly people who are depending on the state for the basics, all underprivileged people who require social welfare, and all who need hospital or schools.

Too many people in this country seem to think that someone will just keep feeding half the country for the laugh. I really wish they would cop on.

It just seems that because Bank debt has been transferred from Irish Banks to the ECB, that we shouldn't have to sort our problems out. The nominal debt has increased (but it doesn't make a damn difference because the Irish taxpayer hasn't paid a red cent of the debt or the interest), and yet this is put fwd as a logic for not getting our house in order???

God help us.

Bishop_Donal

Buford Tannen wrote: »

So you do admit it will devalue homes.Are yo hoping to expand you're empire Mr Landlord

I do admit it will reduce prices & I hope I never gave any other impression.
(Use a multiple of 15 - 20x the full property tax level to determine the approx impact).


I would consider acquiring another property when I believe stability has returned to the market, subject to:
- satisfactory net yield (which is considerably more attractive now than at the high of the boom)
- return of liquidity.

Latter point is particularly important as I believe that we require serious inflation across Europe to help sort out this mess.

All that said, one house is hardly a property empire? Maybe we have different expectations / ambitions!!

Buford Tannen

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I can't believe this discussion is still ongoing.

We Irish have a problem. We cannot afford the way we are living. It has nothing to do with Banks, Bank bailouts, Senior bonds etc etc.

But it does have everything to do with the banks,you do realize that by 2015 we will be pay roughly 10b a year on the interest on the money spent bailing them out

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

We are just spending way more that we earn.

So we cut spending.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I think it is pure disgusting that people seem to have no sense of ownership of the problems that we face as a people, and I know I'll get hammered for my view again (not that it will change it one iota). The lack of sense of patriotism is unreal. People who refuse to take their share of the burden are not Irish as far as I'm concerned.

Plenty of "non Irish" are paying for the mess ,patriotism doesn't come into it at all when we are all be screwed to pay for a select few

Bishop_Donal

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe it will be €100 per house in 2013 or 2014? If it was confirmed that it was going to be just €100 going forward I think most people would except without question. But it won't. A number of well respected economists have suggested that it will need to be €1000 per year.

Any why is there so many exemptions? Everyone should be paying it. The days of exemption are long past. And if you are renting a local authority house you should also be paying this.

I don't believe I ever claimed it would only be Eur100 in 2013 or 2014 and hope that was not inferred in any of my postings.

If we assume that it is raised to Eur1,000 (but my guess is the average house will be about Eur600 - Eur700) it would deal with about 10% of the gap between public income and expenditure. At least it would be a start (and if you reduced spending, attacked the black economy and attacked fraudulent welfare claims you might even make a meaningful impact).

Obviously the sooner the figures are back in balance, the sooner we will be in a position to start a negotiation with the Troike regarding a workable and acceptable level of national debt (with a view to determining who should take the ultimate write-down).

Bishop_Donal

Buford Tannen wrote: »

But it does have everything to do with the banks,you do realize that by 2015 we will be pay roughly 10b a year on the interest on the money spent bailing them out




So we cut spending.





Plenty of "non Irish" are paying for the mess ,patriotism doesn't come into it at all when we are all be screwed to pay for a select few

Do let me know when the first cent of Irish taxpayer money is actually spent on the Banks.

We have not repaid a cent of capital.

We pay 5bn a year in interest (of which 1.5bn relates to recent debt), but for doing this we are being given support of 18bn. i.e. a net inflow of 13bn.

Read my other posts. My logic is that we should sort our mess out. Then (and only then) decide what we will repay.

Buford Tannen

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Do let me know when the first cent of Irish taxpayer money is actually spent on the Banks.

We have not repaid a cent of capital.

We pay 5bn a year in interest (of which 1.5bn relates to recent debt), but for doing this we are being given support of 18bn. i.e. a net inflow of 13bn.

Read my other posts. My logic is that we should sort our mess out. Then (and only then) decide what we will repay.

So does sorting our own mess out include cutting spending in our PS?

Heyes

Whats the story re Appartments, do you pay the full household charge or only a % ? I noticed on the website that if a house is split into flats then they split the charge, however does this apply to appartment buildings ?

Bishop_Donal

Buford Tannen wrote: »

So does sorting our own mess out include cutting spending in our PS?

Of Course. Yes.

You can't keep spending like a raving lunatic when you ain't earning it.

Health, Education and Welfare all need to take a big hit. That's a combination of benefits and PS wages. Croke Park needs to be stripped apart and re-negotiated. My guess is another 10% - 15% needed of PS wags all the way (or else equivalent reductions via a combination of PS wage cuts and elimination of unnecessary administration). My preference would be to protect frontline teachers, nurses, & cops as much as possible, because at least they contribute.

Bishop_Donal

Heyes wrote: »

Whats the story re Appartments, do you pay the full household charge or only a % ? I noticed on the website that if a house is split into flats then they split the charge, however does this apply to appartment buildings ?

No. You are liable for the full charge.