Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Am Chile

I know some people are considering boycotting the household tax' but feel a bit unsure' there,s a new national hotline after being set up for anyone with questions, please contact 1890 98 98 00, for any queries.

A new hotline has been launched today, offering advice to people who are opposed to the new €100 household charge.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/anti-household-charge-hotline-number-announced-535455.html

yeppydeppy

Letter to todays Irish Times:

A loophole in household charge?

A chara, – My mortgage provider is forever at pains to remind me that I am not the legal owner of my home until the final payment is made. Considering this, the implication has to be that my mortgage provider is the legal “owner” of my home, and considering that, is it not therefore the case that my mortgage provider is liable for the household charge to be applied to my (still to be paid for) home, and not me? Please tell me I have found a loophole? – Yours, etc,
GARY DOYLE,


http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224310142888

Frank Black

yeppydeppy wrote: »

Letter to todays Irish Times:

A loophole in household charge?

A chara, – My mortgage provider is forever at pains to remind me that I am not the legal owner of my home until the final payment is made. Considering this, the implication has to be that my mortgage provider is the legal “owner” of my home, and considering that, is it not therefore the case that my mortgage provider is liable for the household charge to be applied to my (still to be paid for) home, and not me? Please tell me I have found a loophole? – Yours, etc,
GARY DOYLE,


http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224310142888

That's only been answered about 20times already in this thread.

K-9

yeppydeppy wrote: »

Letter to todays Irish Times:

A loophole in household charge?

A chara, – My mortgage provider is forever at pains to remind me that I am not the legal owner of my home until the final payment is made. Considering this, the implication has to be that my mortgage provider is the legal “owner” of my home, and considering that, is it not therefore the case that my mortgage provider is liable for the household charge to be applied to my (still to be paid for) home, and not me? Please tell me I have found a loophole? – Yours, etc,
GARY DOYLE,


http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224310142888

Its like arguing that you can't build a garage onto your house without the banks (the owners) permission!

Tora Bora

D1stant wrote: »

Simple Question

I will pay it even though it's unfair because I agree with taxing wealth and the tax base should be wide . BUT it should be means tested and relative to the size and location of the property

I am waiting for Ray D'Arcy to make a statement linking this with emmigration

Who is Ray D'Arcy?

Bishop_Donal

Red C poll indicates that 15% will not pay the Household charge. Assume 50% just want to be seen to be taking the hard stance, so probably 7 or 8% really.

It must be said that's pretty significant & really disappointing.

These people should be excluded from the use of public infrastructure (esp hospitals and schools) if they are proven to be not paying their share.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Red C poll indicates that 15% will not pay the Household charge. Assume 50% just want to be seen to be taking the hard stance, so probably 7 or 8% really.

It must be said that's pretty significant & really disappointing.

These people should be excluded from the use of public infrastructure (esp hospitals and schools) if they are proven to be not paying their share.

I believe it will be higher than that. Much higher. Probably 36% like our poll here. It must be said that's really disappointing FOR YOU. Very disappointing. How are they going to exclude these people from the public infrastructure?
If they victimize them the rest will more or less row in behind them. The big bully Government will then take much more flak by punishing people for the crimes of their own cronies.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Red C poll indicates that 15% will not pay the Household charge. Assume 50% just want to be seen to be taking the hard stance, so probably 7 or 8% really.

It must be said that's pretty significant & really disappointing.

These people should be excluded from the use of public infrastructure (esp hospitals and schools) if they are proven to be not paying their share.

That's hardly fair Donal, considering none of us signed up to ever pay a tax on the place we live.

That's like me dropping round to your gaff tomorrow to collect that fifty quid you didn't say you'd lend me.

dxhound2005

Anyone paying the €5 to the campaign?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/5-cost-to-build-warchest-against-household-charge-2986602.html

Merch

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Anyone paying the €5 to the campaign?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/5-cost-to-build-warchest-against-household-charge-2986602.html

Thats a good idea, I never knew that existed, for a fiver i think its worth it.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Anyone paying the €5 to the campaign?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/5-cost-to-build-warchest-against-household-charge-2986602.html

I'd gladly pay the hundred euro to this lot.

Its not the amount (far from it) its the principle, and also our govts (past and present) atrocious record on price hiking.

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

That's hardly fair Donal, considering none of us signed up to ever pay a tax on the place we live.

That's like me dropping round to your gaff tomorrow to collect that fifty quid you didn't say you'd lend me.

Well you've been around this thread for a few days now, so you know my views (and equally I know yours).

My comment is an extension of my point of view. It's 'user pays' as far as I'm concerned.

I still firmly believe that we need our country in balance before we can really attempt to write down national debt. If people don't step up to the plate, that can't happen. You just ain't gonna knock 18bn out of expenditure (even if you eliminated every bit of waste).

If there is this much resistance to this little irrelevant tax, the country really has no hope and the human suffering that will follow will be absolutely awful. I despair.

Frank Black

Ghandee wrote: »

That's like me dropping round to your gaff tomorrow to collect that fifty quid you didn't say you'd lend me.

Yeah, it's the exact same :rolleyes:

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Well you've been around this thread for a few days now, so you know my views (and equally I know yours).

My comment is an extension of my point of view. It's 'user pays' as far as I'm concerned.

I still firmly believe that we need our country in balance before we can really attempt to write down national debt. If people don't step up to the plate, that can't happen. You just ain't gonna knock 18bn out of expenditure (even if you eliminated every bit of waste).

If there is this much resistance to this little irrelevant tax, the country really has no hope and the human suffering that will follow will be absolutely awful. I despair.

They should have tried to hit the big man first. They will never learn. Why they never went back to the I.M.F. and bartered for a better deal mystifies me. Why not stretch out the repayments. Can't understand why 2016 is written in stone. Like the old woman pissing into the sea, a wee bit often is the answer. Why the rush?

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Well you've been around this thread for a few days now, so you know my views (and equally I know yours).

My comment is an extension of my point of view. It's 'user pays' as far as I'm concerned.

I still firmly believe that we need our country in balance before we can really attempt to write down national debt. If people don't step up to the plate, that can't happen. You just ain't gonna knock 18bn out of expenditure (even if you eliminated every bit of waste).

If there is this much resistance to this little irrelevant tax, the country really has no hope and the human suffering that will follow will be absolutely awful. I despair.

I equally know your views, and I respect them.

My major gripe is that it won't stay an insignificant, irrelevant amount.

As soon as enough folk are on board with this, and they get free reign. Its going to be hundreds, if not thousands come 2014>

You know it, and I know it.

I, as i'm sure maybe you are, am already being taxed to the hilt for mistakes that weren't mine. When do we say enough is enough?

At what point do we stand up to these cronies? Nip it in the bud now, our let it fester for a few years, and see total revolt and anarchy on the streets?

We didn't ask for these debts, and we sure as hell shouldn't be paying for a few crooked cronies who had a license to print money, which they gambled and squandered.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

They should have tried to hit the big man first. They will never learn. Why they never went back to the I.M.F. and bartered for a better deal mystifies me. Why not stretch out the repayments. Can't understand why 2016 is written in stone. Like the old woman pissing into the sea, a wee bit often is the answer. Why the rush?

But you just don't seem to understand that the repayment date is academic?

We are still borrowing like there is no tomorrow. Theoretical repayment dates don't matter a damn.

The key issue now is how we pay for what we spend. Here and now. Nothing else. We are in no position to negotiate anything with the IMF or anyone else, because we need them. They really don't need us.

drdeadlift

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Well you've been around this thread for a few days now, so you know my views (and equally I know yours).

My comment is an extension of my point of view. It's 'user pays' as far as I'm concerned.

I still firmly believe that we need our country in balance before we can really attempt to write down national debt. If people don't step up to the plate, that can't happen. You just ain't gonna knock 18bn out of expenditure (even if you eliminated every bit of waste).

If there is this much resistance to this little irrelevant tax, the country really has no hope and the human suffering that will follow will be absolutely awful. I despair.

Who made up that saying"step up to the plate"....

Ghandee

black francis wrote: »

Yeah, it's the exact same :rolleyes:

Yes it is.

No where and at no time did I say I'd sign up to a household charge.

Why its that so difficult for you to comprehend?

You didn't say you'd give me a hundred euro, so if I approach you in the shop tomorrow and demand it, you would quite rightly tell me to get lost.

No?

Or am I missing something?

drdeadlift

tayto lover wrote: »

They should have tried to hit the big man first. They will never learn. Why they never went back to the I.M.F. and bartered for a better deal mystifies me. Why not stretch out the repayments. Can't understand why 2016 is written in stone. Like the old woman pissing into the sea, a wee bit often is the answer. Why the rush?

Spot on,whats the rush?? we are still a functioning country for now.Might be a case of the straw that broke the camels back..And why is it our government dont even look like they are trying to get us a good deal over there

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

I equally know your views, and I respect them.

My major gripe is that it won't stay an insignificant, irrelevant amount.

As soon as enough folk are on board with this, and they get free reign. Its going to be hundreds, if not thousands come 2014>

You know it, and I know it.

I, as i'm sure maybe you are, am already being taxed to the hilt for mistakes that weren't mine. When do we say enough is enough?

At what point do we stand up to these cronies? Nip it in the bud now, our let it fester for a few years, and see total revolt and anarchy on the streets?

We didn't ask for these debts, and we sure as hell shouldn't be paying for a few crooked cronies who had a license to print money, which they gambled and squandered.

I agree with 80% of what you are saying. The crap that has gone on in the country is a pure disgrace. The lack of regulation of the Banks was horrendous.

The decision to bail out the banks may prove to be correct ultimately (but only if we get a debt writedown ultimately that negates the theoretical cost). In that circumstance the ECB and IMF will have paid for the mistakes.

I accept fully that the levels of tax have to go up etc. But what is the alternative? If you tell them to sling their hook now, we just can't survive. It's about timing. Get ourselves sorted and then we properly renegotiate and see what the terms look like.

K-9

tayto lover wrote: »

They should have tried to hit the big man first. They will never learn. Why they never went back to the I.M.F. and bartered for a better deal mystifies me. Why not stretch out the repayments. Can't understand why 2016 is written in stone. Like the old woman pissing into the sea, a wee bit often is the answer. Why the rush?

Generally you don't barter with the IMF, same an individual doesn't argue with a bailiff, well you can, for all the good it will do.

The IMF did reduce their rate and the EU have cut it from over 6% to about 3.5%. 2016 is pretty irrelevant as the chances are we'll be negotiating a new bail out in 2014, even with things going well. At that stage the deficit should be at more manageable proportions.

Bishop_Donal

drdeadlift wrote: »

Who made up that saying"step up to the plate"....

I have no idea. Are you about to enlighten me or what is the relevance of the question?

Bishop_Donal

drdeadlift wrote: »

Spot on,whats the rush?? we are still a functioning country for now.Might be a case of the straw that broke the camels back..And why is it our government dont even look like they are trying to get us a good deal over there

Well your idea of 'a functioning country' and mine certainly differ!!

We depend on external sources for the finance for 35% of the exchequer spend & you characterise that as functioning???? That's a fair stretch of the imagination.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

But you just don't seem to understand that the repayment date is academic?

We are still borrowing like there is no tomorrow. Theoretical repayment dates don't matter a damn.

The key issue now is how we pay for what we spend. Here and now. Nothing else. We are in no position to negotiate anything with the IMF or anyone else, because we need them. They really don't need us.

Maybe you don't understand. They are not OUR debts. I always made a point of living within my means, no credit cards, no h.p., no holidays etc. I dealt with the credit union and paid back all I owed. I have only one house and never got too big for my boots unlike many. I owe nothing, especially on the home I scrimped and scraped for. I qualified for no education grants for my children either yet I coped. I didn't need banks here never mind the I.M.F. or any other agency. My home is my castle and I will pay nobody for the privilege of living in it. Its mine, bought and paid for. The services i get I pay for. If I want new ones then I approach them. I pay all my legitimate taxes but this one i will not pay as it's not legitimate and only designed/invented to pay for the sins of the greedy. Not my sins at all.

tayto lover

K-9 wrote: »

Generally you don't barter with the IMF, same an individual doesn't argue with a bailiff, well you can, for all the good it will do.

The IMF did reduce their rate and the EU have cut it from over 6% to about 3.5%. 2016 is pretty irrelevant as the chances are we'll be negotiating a new bail out in 2014, even with things going well. At that stage the deficit should be at more manageable proportions.

Maybe its time our sheepish government told them what's what."We are not refusing to pay but it will be done over a longer period because our citizens are suffering too much, take it or leave it".

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you don't understand. They are not OUR debts. I always made a point of living within my means, no credit cards, no h.p., no holidays etc. I dealt with the credit union and paid back all I owed. I have only one house and never got too big for my boots unlike many. I owe nothing, especially on the home I scrimped and scraped for. I qualified for no education grants for my children either yet I coped. I didn't need banks here never mind the I.M.F. or any other agency. My home is my castle and I will pay nobody for the privilege of living in it. Its mine, bought and paid for. The services i get I pay for. If I want new ones then I approach them. I pay all my legitimate taxes but this one i will not pay as it's not legitimate and only designed/invented to pay for the sins of the greedy. Not my sins at all.

Regardless of your opinion of it's legitimacy it is the law of the land now. You are rightly proud of your private property so you need to consider the consequences of putting yourself outside the law. I would say if you can afford €100 pay it this year and avoid all the hassle. If it goes up to €500 or €1000 or whatever in a few years and you can't afford it well then you can't afford it so don't pay.

drdeadlift

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Well your idea of 'a functioning country' and mine certainly differ!!

We depend on external sources for the finance for 35% of the exchequer spend & you characterise that as functioning???? That's a fair stretch of the imagination.

Your right...would sacking half the ps help or make things worse?

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I would say if you can afford €100 pay it this year and avoid all the hassle. If it goes up to €500 or €1000 or whatever in a few years and you can't afford it well then you can't afford it so don't pay.

Yep, register up, give them your details and numbers, then sign the virtual contract to pay yearly ground rent to the government.

Or you could bide your time.......


I'd also like clarification as to whether it is a law or an act at this stage............ any legal eagles about?

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Regardless of your opinion of it's legitimacy it is the law of the land now. You are rightly proud of your private property so you need to consider the consequences of putting yourself outside the law. I would say if you can afford €100 pay it this year and avoid all the hassle. If it goes up to €500 or €1000 or whatever in a few years and you can't afford it well then you can't afford it so don't pay.

It won't be as easy to refuse to pay it then though. Once you register, your entering into a contract.

Refuse it now, like I say nip it in the bud before it gets out of control.

K-9

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe its time our sheepish government told them what's what."We are not refusing to pay but it will be done over a longer period because our citizens are suffering too much, take it or leave it".

Perhaps indeed. Hungary tried something similar!

Being the black sheep doesn't usually end well! Sheepish is is such a mainstream phrase now it's establishment.