Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dxhound2005

robbie7730 wrote: »

The €100 charge is just the introductory softener charge, to get everyone to register, so then when the real charge comes (€500?, €1000?), they have everyones details. So again, saying the actual €100 amount is easily managable is a pointless arguement.

Also, many home owners are already on a precarious footing, or worse.

It has been announced already that the charge will be replaced with a property tax which will not be the same amount for every property. It could well be €1000or more in some cases but nobody knows yet. I think the government are happy enough to let people register voluntarily for the moment. It would have been a very costly exercise to write to 1.6 million or so households and inevitably some of the letters would have been addressed to deceased people or people not liable and Liveline would have been buzzing. In the longer term there will have to be a way of identifying those who are liable but haven't registered and as we know all arrears and fines will follow the title of the property to be paid eventually.

BTW I was talking to a man who lives in the Newry and Mourne district (14 Sinn Fein out of 31 councillors) and I was shocked to hear he is paying around £2100 in domestic rates. Apparently each council sets it own rate and Newry is one of the most expensive.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

BTW I was talking to a man who lives in the Newry and Mourne district (14 Sinn Fein out of 31 councillors) and I was shocked to hear he is paying around £2100 in domestic rates. Apparently each council sets it own rate and Newry is one of the most expensive.

That's his problem tbh.
Let it be fair warning to everybody registering up for this ground rent.

Bullseye1

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Red C poll indicates that 15% will not pay the Household charge. Assume 50% just want to be seen to be taking the hard stance, so probably 7 or 8% really.

It must be said that's pretty significant & really disappointing.

These people should be excluded from the use of public infrastructure (esp hospitals and schools) if they are proven to be not paying their share.

What does this household charge have to do with public amenities. It's going towards paying back the national debt (majority of this debt being the banks debt).

People pay private health insurance and PRSI which covers access to hospitals. They have already paid their taxes. To suggest that they should be excluded because of failure to pay the €100 (soon to be €500-€1000) is something I'd expect from a government shill.

dxhound2005

mikom wrote: »

That's his problem tbh.
Let it be fair warning to everybody registering up for this ground rent.

And fair warning that if Sinn Fein come to power here they won't do away with the property tax. Inviting people to put themselves outside the the law which applies to their own private property is all well and good but they should have fair warning that they will be left to bear the consequences.

CricketDude

Ive paid mine. But if by the end of the year there are people who have gotten away without paying, i wont be paying again next year.

And if everyone who lives in a councils catchment area, whether they own a house or not, are not contributing to the council coffers too, I wont be paying again either.

mikom

CricketDude wrote: »

Ive paid mine. But if by the end of the year there are people who have gotten away without paying, i wont be paying again next year.

And if everyone who lives in a councils catchment area, whether they own a house or not, are not contributing to the council coffers too, I wont be paying again either.

What details did you give them when you signed up for the charge?

Bishop_Donal

Bullseye1 wrote: »

What does this household charge have to do with public amenities. It's going towards paying back the national debt (majority of this debt being the banks debt).

People pay private health insurance and PRSI which covers access to hospitals. They have already paid their taxes. To suggest that they should be excluded because of failure to pay the €100 (soon to be €500-€1000) is something I'd expect from a government shill.

I don't distinguish between the various sources and uses of taxation.

Health insurance does not fund the full cost of Healthcare in this country. Likewise education etc etc etc. Our taxes (collectively) fill the gap. The only problem is that there is a shortfall of Eur18bn at the moment. It seems a hardcore element in society refuse to pay their share of the gap (or at least advocate this approach).

I won't even comment on your name calling.

Bishop_Donal

robbie7730 wrote: »

So the economically illiterate speak with the text speak accents do they?

So then, how much will the property tax go up to by 2015, for the benefit of the illiterate?

Certainly the public gatherings of 'Anti Household Charge' groups have attracted a distinct group (generally seem to be socialist and have a belief that somebody else should pay for their services other than themselves).

Eur700 or there abouts (dealing with about 7% of the country's problems).

LizButler

Don't Pay! Don't register! Join the campaign! To find your local group look on www.noouseholdtax.org or phone 1890 98 98 00

LizButler

LizButler wrote: »

Don't Pay! Don't register! Join the campaign! To find your local group look on www.noouseholdtax.org or phone 1890 98 98 00

Sorry it should have been www.nohouseholdtax.org

LizButler

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Certainly the public gatherings of 'Anti Household Charge' groups have attracted a distinct group (generally seem to be socialist and have a belief that somebody else should pay for their services other than themselves).

Eur700 or there abouts (dealing with about 7% of the country's problems).

Yes the general idea of meetings I've been at is that property developers, financial speculators and the filthy rich should pay their own gambling debts, not ordinary people. www.nohouseholdtax.org and 1890 98 98 00 give the arguments as to why this tax wouldn't support local services if people did pay it. However it is probably going to be defeated!

Frank Black

LizButler wrote: »

Yes the general idea of meetings I've been at is that property developers, financial speculators and the filthy rich should pay their own gambling debts, not ordinary people.

Sounds wonderful, sign me up, after the meetings do we sail chocolate ships over seas of raspberry jam and see the mighty kingdoms of fairy world, where marshmallow birds soar through clouds of candyfloss.

dxhound2005

LizButler wrote: »

Yes the general idea of meetings I've been at is that property developers, financial speculators and the filthy rich should pay their own gambling debts, not ordinary people. www.nohouseholdtax.org and 1890 98 98 00 give the arguments as to why this tax wouldn't support local services if people did pay it. However it is probably going to be defeated!

Probably isn't good enough. Unless you can guarantee it will be off the statute books by April 1st then everyone following your advice will only have suceeded in creating an extra and unnecessary liability for themselves.

tayto lover

There seems to be a lot of posters on threads like this who are members of political parties. Most of them Fine Gael. I wonder am I right?

Phill Ewinn

Has to be the most ridiculous tax ever. Whats next? An underpants tax? A levee based on how you tie your shoe laces?

Fvck off.

greenpilot

downey2003 wrote: »

It has got ***** all too do with any services - to or from your house!

Correct!

I live in a rural area where the Council wont repair the roads, there are no street lights, no bin services (we have to recycle everything ourselves), and we already pay for our water through a group water scheme. So the Gov can fcuk right off if they think they can get 1 cent more from me.

I reckon the Gov will see how many fools pay by the end of the year, collect the money, and then forget about the rest of us with the Balls to say No, as it would cost too much to endlessly chase down the large amounts of us who didnt register. plus, since I live 10mins from Enda Kennys house, He is welcome around for a cuppa if he can make it up the damn road so I can tell him to shove it to his face!!:cool:

tayto lover

greenpilot wrote: »

Correct!

I live in a rural area where the Council wont repair the roads, there are no street lights, no bin services (we have to recycle everything ourselves), and we already pay for our water through a group water scheme. So the Gov can fcuk right off if they think they can get 1 cent more from me.

I reckon the Gov will see how many fools pay by the end of the year, collect the money, and then forget about the rest of us with the Balls to say No, as it would cost too much to endlessly chase down the large amounts of us who didnt register. plus, since I live 10mins from Enda Kennys house, He is welcome around for a cuppa if he can make it up the damn road so I can tell him to shove it to his face!!:cool:

When he does call he will demand that you call your first-born son Fritz, Gunther or Hans. He likes the Germans.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

When he does call he will demand that you call your first-born son Fritz, Gunther or Hans. He likes the Germans.

The Germans have to pay property tax too.

Real property tax

Municipalities levy a tax on real property. The tax rates vary because they depend on the decision of the local parliament. The tax is payable every quarter.

I think I heard on the radio that 25 countries out of the 27 in the EU have a property tax, the exceptions being Malta and Ireland. The only ones I know for certain that do are UK, Germany and Greece (just looked it up) but if anyone can show me others that don't I'm certainly open to correction.

Bishop_Donal

LizButler wrote: »

Yes the general idea of meetings I've been at is that property developers, financial speculators and the filthy rich should pay their own gambling debts, not ordinary people. www.nohouseholdtax.org and 1890 98 98 00 give the arguments as to why this tax wouldn't support local services if people did pay it. However it is probably going to be defeated!

And would you be good enough Liz, to let me know who should pay the 'ordinary people's' debt? Just the regular stuff - not the Banks.

It's all fine and dandy to keep the discussion abstract and say that cutting out waste will fix everything. First of all it won't, but even if you do cut out some 'waste', you are talking about jobs! Then your social welfare bill goes back up so you need more taxes.

If you are this opposed to the household charge, what taxes would you increase?

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of posters on threads like this who are members of political parties. Most of them Fine Gael. I wonder am I right?

I'd say there are more from Sinn Féin based on what I am reading.

Bishop_Donal

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Germans have to pay property tax too.

Real property tax

Municipalities levy a tax on real property. The tax rates vary because they depend on the decision of the local parliament. The tax is payable every quarter.

I think I heard on the radio that 25 countries out of the 27 in the EU have a property tax, the exceptions being Malta and Ireland. The only ones I know for certain that do are UK, Germany and Greece (just looked it up) but if anyone can show me others that don't I'm certainly open to correction.

You are correct. In certain countries Property Tax is collected as a subset of their Wealth Tax.

Bishop_Donal

greenpilot wrote: »

Correct!

I live in a rural area where the Council wont repair the roads, there are no street lights, no bin services (we have to recycle everything ourselves), and we already pay for our water through a group water scheme. So the Gov can fcuk right off if they think they can get 1 cent more from me.

I reckon the Gov will see how many fools pay by the end of the year, collect the money, and then forget about the rest of us with the Balls to say No, as it would cost too much to endlessly chase down the large amounts of us who didnt register. plus, since I live 10mins from Enda Kennys house, He is welcome around for a cuppa if he can make it up the damn road so I can tell him to shove it to his face!!:cool:

It won't cost too much to chase it down. It will simply be left accumulate against your home (attracting a mere 42% interest in the first year). Makes your credit card seem like a pretty cheap financing option.

As the charge increases over the coming years, so too will your accumulated liability. Ultimately it will very much become worth collecting (or alternatively waiting until you try to sell your house at which stage it will be deducted by your solicitor before you see a penny).

Now, if anyone thinks I'm an FG activist, I hope that approach clarifies the position for them.

dxhound2005

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I'd say there are more from Sinn Féin based on what I am reading.

More Socialist Party and Socialist Workers Party possibly. Sinn Fein are operating a property tax in the North so I think they are keeping fairly quiet on the subject at the moment. I am not a member of any party myself.

K-9

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

You are correct. In certain countries Property Tax is collected as a subset of their Wealth Tax.

This tax should have been brought in 7/8 years ago when everybody was going on about how much their house rose in value! €100? I wouldn't get out of bed for that.

Bishop_Donal

K-9 wrote: »

This tax should have been brought in 7/8 years ago when everybody was going on about how much their house rose in value! €100? I wouldn't get out of bed for that.

You're dead right!!!

I've never seen such a ridiculous reaction to a charge of Eur100. You'd spend it on biscuits in a week.

I just hope they get on with this and jack it up to Eur700 per house & also introduce the legislation to collect it (and penalties / interest) at source. Then it will be worth chasing down every defaulter & we'll see a quick end to the Joe Higgin's mentality (just like the bin charges).

LizButler

Noreen1 wrote: »

I'm curious.

Why did we pay stamp duty?
Was it because the Government regarded the acquisition of a home as an asset?

That being the case, with so many people in negative equity, their "asset" has become a loss, so, are these people then entitled to a tax refund?

If Stamp Duty wasn't because the home was regarded as an asset, then why was it charged? Was it for "services"? If so, then there is no justification for charging for these same services again.

When I built my home, I paid a raft of charges for "services". (Planning permission, Water, ESB, Mapping, I even paid for permission to open up the public mains water pipe (the same one that my parents and their neighbours paid to have laid 40 years ago - and then spent years paying water rates, despite the fact that they own the land where the water supply is located! Hmm. Maybe the landowners should start charging the council for the use of their water!).

I have a private road, paid to have pipes laid, paid for connection to ESB, (including the cost of the poles). I also have a private
well, and a septic tank.

So far, Council services to my house have cost the Council absolutely nothing, and cost me several thousand.

Yet now, I'm supposed to pay for water that myself and several of the neighbours own, (including the pipes), pay a septic tank charge for a modern tank, built to planning specificatons - and whatever other charges the EU/IMF/Irish Government, choose to levy.

Something tells me there must be a legal loophole there somewhere that the Government can't get around by calling this tax a "service charge".

Exactly! Our government and their masters, the troika think we are stupid and that they can bully us with this tax too. See the real reasons on www.nohouseholdtax.org or 1890 98 98 00.

LizButler

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

If you are this opposed to the household charge, what taxes would you increase?

Corporation Tax and create a Wealth Tax, of course burning the bondholders is also essential.

Bishop_Donal

LizButler wrote: »

Corporation Tax and create a Wealth Tax, of course burning the bondholders is also essential.

Burning the bondholders is academic until we get to a stage where we are at least paying the interest on the debt (and we are miles away from that).

Corp tax and wealth tax increases to make a material impact on an 18bn deficit? By God you'd be whacking a fair old debt on every company and family in the country.

I guess you'd prefer if every one of the multinationals pulled out, and if all our high net worth residents / entrepreneurs went with them.

God help the average family if your perverse thinking every catches on, cos there'll be no schools / hospitals / social welfare or justice system left in this country.

bgrizzley

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I've never seen such a ridiculous reaction to a charge of Eur100. You'd spend it on biscuits in a week.

I

where the feck do you buy them donal?
i got 6 Wagon Wheels in Dunnes today for E1 lol

Ian64

Ghandee wrote: »

I dont get this response?

Its €8.33 a month too fcuking much!!!

Were being charged a tax to live in a poxy house that (not through ordinary Joe Soaps fault) is worth prob half of what it was when we bought it, due to the completely wreckless behaviour of corrupt politicians and greedy bankers.

This charge is for us to pay back the BILLIONS squandered by them, robbed by them, and mismanaged by them FFS!

It doesnt matter two fiddlers farts the amount, its just the fact that we have to pay it in the first place!

Oh yeah, its 100 this year (TO BEGIN WITH) what will it be next year if we let them away with slipping it under the door this year?

Civil disobedience is the way forward, lets all stand together, tell FG and the greedy bankers to go fcuk themselves!

Typical response from the 'ah sure it'll be grand brigade'!

Fcuk em, Fcuk the lot of them!

Easy to say, lets all go on strike, refuse to pay for anything, rename the country Utopia!
Bottom line is if we refuse to pay any tax we have to accept that our kids wont have schools to go to, our hospitals, bad as they are, will close, our pensioners and disabled will lose their social welfare etc..etc..etc...

its time people like you woke up and smelt the coffee, we live in the real world, and in the real world we pay taxes.

I dont see all those who got free money off the Gov in SSIA,s queuing up to hand it back!