Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Bishop_Donal

LizButler wrote: »

There is still council tax in the UK, They never transferred the rates to VET and other taxes on the individual as Ireland did.
The poll tax was defeated and ended Thacher's spell as prime minister. I am in the United Left Alliance. We, like many others, both in and outside of political parties, are joining together to fight the unfair taxes on homes, household charge, septic tack registration and the proposed property tax. See www.nohouseholdtax.org or phone 1890 98 98 00 for links to local groups, to join the campaign, get support and see the arguments.

Do you not mean:

www.someoneelseshouldpayforme.org

mikom

The stench of government shill off this thread is sickening.

downey2003

stebe wrote: »

€2 a week is not a lot to anybody know matter how poor you are.

YES IT IS!!

northknife

Am not paying as it is going to lead to an unfair property tax for the following reason.

I built my house before the boom and built a 2 storie a bit bigger than your average estate house.I did not think I would get planning permission but sent in the plans anyway.We got full planning no problem.

When we were building the house a neighbour who had also just recently built a bungalow questioned how we got planning permission for such a house when he wanted a dormer but was told it would not fit in with the other houses in the area.

Now I don't see why I shoul pay more tax to live in my house when some gob****e in the local planning office has decided eiher rightly or wrongly whether to approve my house or somebody elses just on whether they liked them or not(if you catch my drift).

Rant over for the moment

Ian64

mikom wrote: »

The stench of government shill off this thread is sickening.

The stench of the "gimme everything for nothing commie crap" is sickening

Ian64

northknife wrote: »

Am not paying as it is going to lead to an unfair property tax for the following reason.

I built my house before the boom and built a 2 storie a bit bigger than your average estate house.I did not think I would get planning permission but sent in the plans anyway.We got full planning no problem.

When we were building the house a neighbour who had also just recently built a bungalow questioned how we got planning permission for such a house when he wanted a dormer but was told it would not fit in with the other houses in the area.

Now I don't see why I shoul pay more tax to live in my house when some gob****e in the local planning office has decided eiher rightly or wrongly whether to approve my house or somebody elses just on whether they liked them or not(if you catch my drift).

Rant over for the moment

You are paying, now or later with penalties and interest, but pay you will because there is no way round it!

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

You're dead right!!!

I've never seen such a ridiculous reaction to a charge of Eur100. You'd spend it on biscuits in a week.

I just hope they get on with this and jack it up to Eur700 per house & also introduce the legislation to collect it (and penalties / interest) at source. Then it will be worth chasing down every defaulter & we'll see a quick end to the Joe Higgin's mentality (just like the bin charges).

You know rightly that this is exactly what they will do and so do all the people who are refusing to pay. That's exactly why they are refusing. If it was left at 100e you wouldn't have the campaigns to protest against it.
The people are not falling for it though.

mikom

Ian64 wrote: »

The stench of the "gimme everything for nothing commie crap" is sickening

Howya Red Foreman, how's 1970?




God, it feels good to be on the side that's not slinging the "Commie" jibe

tayto lover

Ian64 wrote: »

You are paying, now or later with penalties and interest, but pay you will because there is no way round it!

Is that you Big Phil ?

Bruthal

Ian64 wrote: »

The stench of the "gimme everything for nothing commie crap" is sickening

Really? You dont think its possibly coming from some that have had so much levies hit at them that they have had enough?

I still find it hard to believe its being mentioned that €2 a week means nothing even to the poor, when the real point is, it will soon be €15 a week or more.

Or that buying your own home means you are now paying a wealth tax, even though having this home has many in debt far higher than the home value, added to possibly having no job now or far less income.

Why not start with €2000 a year tax this year? After all, some here are saying property tax is needed. Well here`s why, because far fewer would register, where as starting with the €100, many think thats cheap, lets register.

So the government is still able to fool the ones saying pay it, as its only the price of a pack of biscuits. Although i`d say that statement sounds more like a government statement.

charlemont

tayto lover wrote: »

Is that you Big Phil ?

Big Phil is really coming across as the new Michael McDowell. He just keeps putting his foot in it.

Yea, Lots of people here must have given themselves a good pat on the back after they paid their charge, Even if I did own a property I wouldn't pay.

Josephine O Beirnes

No i wont be paying, i bought me house over five years ago, including the front garden and the back, so i wont be paying for it all over again, if a judge wants to send me to mountjoy so be it, i understand a lot will pay, each to their own, but this girl is not budging on the matter,

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

You know rightly that this is exactly what they will do and so do all the people who are refusing to pay. That's exactly why they are refusing. If it was left at 100e you wouldn't have the campaigns to protest against it.
The people are not falling for it though.

Hard to say at the moment, still over 2 months to go before anyone would suffer extra by not paying. Why would anyone pay €100 out of their pocket now if they could wait until the end of March to do so? But 30,000 have paid already so who knows what the figure will be in 2 months.

BTW if you are going to claim that the 30,000 figure is some kind of government/RTE conspiracy then I will claim that Socialist TD's are taking more that the average industrial wage. I have no evidence for saying that, just seems sort of logical to me.

Slick50

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

.....Now it's a case of sour grapes and resist the policies of the democratically elected country (with a huge majority).

It's Policitcal and Economic Treason, and if you had any sense of values, you would do the decent thing - get out of the country and stop being a leech on the people who are genuine in their efforts to improve it for all.

What about the values or decency of this "huge majority" who have reversed and renaged on just about every policy or promise they made when out canvassing. They are no better than the shower who were just tossed out.

dvpower

For the people who don't intend to pay - what level of non compliance would be regarded as a success? For example, if at 31 March 30% of people have not paid, would that be considered to be a good number?

After a Government PR campaign, lets say 90% have paid by the summer, would that be considered a failure?

At what point, if any, would you abandon the campaign and pay up?

dvpower

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

No i wont be paying, i bought me house over five years ago, including the front garden and the back, so i wont be paying for it all over again, if a judge wants to send me to mountjoy so be it, i understand a lot will pay, each to their own, but this girl is not budging on the matter,

Isn't the idea that they wouldn't persue payment by prison, but would place an attachment on your earnings and just take it (with interest)? In this case, non payment is really only an option if a substantial number refuse to pay.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

For the people who don't intend to pay - what level of non compliance would be regarded as a success? For example, if at 31 March 30% of people have not paid, would that be considered to be a good number?

After a Government PR campaign, lets say 90% have paid by the summer, would that be considered a failure?

At what point, if any, would you abandon the campaign and pay up?

At what level of tax would you not pay? Or is there no limit?

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

At what level of tax would you not pay? Or is there no limit?

I didn't say if I was going to pay or not.
I'm just trying to figure out if those who intend not to pay have a strategy of any kind.

The level of tax I pay isn't determined by me at all. If the governement were to hold a budget tomorrow and raise the tax rate to 75%, I would have to pay it as my tax is deducted at source. I'd likely vote against the Government at the next election and campaign against the tax, but its not in my power to refuse to pay it.

Josephine O Beirnes

dvpower wrote: »

Isn't the idea that they wouldn't persue payment by prison, but would place an attachment on your earnings and just take it (with interest)? In this case, non payment is really only an option if a substantial number refuse to pay.

Think i read somewhere over the weekend that water disruptions will be in place for anyone who wont pay as the household tax will include water charges, dont know how true this is, could be just hearsay at the moment, anything is possible with our government though,

dxhound2005

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Think i read somewhere over the weekend that water disruptions will be in place for anyone who wont pay as the household tax will include water charges, dont know how true this is, could be just hearsay at the moment, anything is possible with our government though,

Thanks for making it so clear, I was confused before.

mikom

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Think i read somewhere over the weekend that water disruptions will be in place for anyone who wont pay as the household tax will include water charges,

There will be blood if they try this tactic.

dvpower

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Think i read somewhere over the weekend that water disruptions will be in place for anyone who wont pay as the household tax will include water charges, dont know how true this is, could be just hearsay at the moment, anything is possible with our government though,

I didn't hear that. I did hear one Minister over the weekend saying that nobody would be going to prison for refusal to pay; that penalties would be applied and that they would apply for an attachment order on earnings.

If this is the case, then I don't see how most people can avoid it (unless you live under the radar). In order to defeat the tax, you're going to need massive non compiance.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

I didn't say if I was going to pay or not.
I'm just trying to figure out if those who intend not to pay have a strategy of any kind.

The level of tax I pay isn't determined by me at all. If the governement were to hold a budget tomorrow and raise the tax rate to 75%, I would have to pay it as my tax is deducted at source. I'd likely vote against the Government at the next election and campaign against the tax, but its not in my power to refuse to pay it.

If the income tax rate went to 75% though, its likely you wouldnt pay. There comes a tipping point likely well below 75%, where you just couldnt pay.

Like you, i also never actually said i wouldnt pay. But on this thread, the advocates seem to think everyone should pay their share, even if for some its easy, but for others its going to be very difficult.

Its likely going to be easy for the posters actually saying they hope it soon goes up to €600 or €700 of course.

Josephine O Beirnes

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Thanks for making it so clear, I was confused before.

confusednomore.com

dxhound2005

If private householders are in such dire straits that they can barely afford to pay it then the last thing they need is to rack up unncessary fines and interest (turning €100 into €142 in a year). Private householders receiving mortgage supplement are exempted from the charge for now so that has addressed the poverty angle to some extent.

The charge applies to what should be in theory the better off section of the community, generalisation I know.

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

If the income tax rate went to 75% though, its likely you wouldnt pay. There comes a tipping point likely well below 75%, where you just couldnt pay.

I don't understand. I have no control over how my tax is paid - my employer takes it straight out of my pay. My only choice is to stop working so I don't have income to be taxed on.

With the household charge, I can refuse to pay it in the first instance, but if they go down the road of getting an attachment on my earnings then this option will be taken from me.

So if someone (for whom this charge is going to put them into serious financial difficulties) is deciding not to pay, they should at least have some confidence that the campaign can be sucessful. If it isn't sucessful, those who are least able to afford it are going to end up paying even more in levies.

con1982

As far as I know it is not legally possible for a Local Authority to completly switch off a domestic water supply, as it is a necessity for life. They can throttle it down to a minimum flow to cause annoyance. If you live in an apartment they can't adjust an individual supply. If you have a house it is easy enough to turn your supply back on full.

I really don't see this happening at all. Too much effort for the Local Authority.

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Think i read somewhere over the weekend that water disruptions will be in place for anyone who wont pay as the household tax will include water charges, dont know how true this is, could be just hearsay at the moment, anything is possible with our government though,

Josephine O Beirnes

con1982 wrote: »

As far as I know it is not legally possible for a Local Authority to completly switch off a domestic water supply, as it is a necessity for life. They can throttle it down to a minimum flow to cause annoyance. If you live in an apartment they can't adjust an individual supply. If you have a house it is easy enough to turn your supply back on full.

I really don't see this happening at all. Too much effort for the Local Authority.

Totally agree with you, there would be uproar, but was something i saw on a leaflet put through me door the weekend,

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Hard to say at the moment, still over 2 months to go before anyone would suffer extra by not paying. Why would anyone pay €100 out of their pocket now if they could wait until the end of March to do so? But 30,000 have paid already so who knows what the figure will be in 2 months.

BTW if you are going to claim that the 30,000 figure is some kind of government/RTE conspiracy then I will claim that Socialist TD's are taking more that the average industrial wage. I have no evidence for saying that, just seems sort of logical to me.

30,000 is very few out of 1.6 million.

Ian64

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

No i wont be paying, i bought me house over five years ago, including the front garden and the back, so i wont be paying for it all over again, if a judge wants to send me to mountjoy so be it, i understand a lot will pay, each to their own, but this girl is not budging on the matter,

You will pay, because they wont send you to jail, the will however charge penalties and interest and you wont be able to sell, transfer or remortgage your house unless you pay them, even if you die that tax will be paid from your estate!
so pay a little now or a lot later..your choice!