Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dvpower

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Totally agree with you, there would be uproar, but was something i saw on a leaflet put through me door the weekend,

From who? Campaigners against the charge?

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

So if someone (for whom this charge is going to put them into serious financial difficulties) is deciding not to pay, they should at least have some confidence that the campaign can be sucessful. If it isn't sucessful, those who are least able to afford it are going to end up paying even more in levies.

The charge itself may not put anyone into serious difficulty. The problem is, many are already in serious financial difficulty because of the many other levies and changes, losing job etc.

Bishop_Donal

Slick50 wrote: »

What about the values or decency of this "huge majority" who have reversed and renaged on just about every policy or promise they made when out canvassing. They are no better than the shower who were just tossed out.

This thread is about the Household charge.

FG clearly said they would do it & have been true to their word.
The people voted for that? end of.

Bruthal

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

This thread is about the Household charge.

FG clearly said they would do it & have been true to their word.
The people voted for that? end of.

That ridiculous "End of" statement should be banned.

Except for infallible posters of course.

Bishop_Donal

robbie7730 wrote: »

The charge itself may not put anyone into serious difficulty. The problem is, many are already in serious financial difficulty because of the many other levies and changes, losing job etc.

The very people who are most dependent on welfare and public service!!!!

If the music stops because we can't raise revenue, they are the ones who will take the biggest pain. Hence, they really should make damn sure that they are the most compliant now.

It's called a drop in living standards, and it is starting now.

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

The charge itself may not put anyone into serious difficulty. The problem is, many are already in serious financial difficulty because of the many other levies and changes, losing job etc.

I understand that people are in difficulty - what I'm trying to get to is how these people are to avoid paying the charge?

Bishop_Donal

robbie7730 wrote: »

That ridiculous "End of" statement should be banned.

Except for infallible posters of course.

I'll be alright then:D Think I have a good chance of becoming Pope_Donal at some stage.

Bishop_Donal

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Think i read somewhere over the weekend that water disruptions will be in place for anyone who wont pay as the household tax will include water charges, dont know how true this is, could be just hearsay at the moment, anything is possible with our government though,

Pure Bull.

Bullseye1

It's interesting reading the poll results. That between 25-30% of those who voted are exempt? That's the main problem in this country. Too many people living off the taxes of others.

Josephine O Beirnes

Ian64 wrote: »

You will pay, because they wont send you to jail, the will however charge penalties and interest and you wont be able to sell, transfer or remortgage your house unless you pay them, even if you die that tax will be paid from your estate!
so pay a little now or a lot later..your choice!

I get your point ian, but i wont be paying, they can do whatever they like to force me but i,ll stand up to it, i wont be a scapegoat just because them arseholes in kildare st fecked up our country with their spending, lavish lifestyles and a finace regulater that was in a coma behind the wheel, if they come knocking on my door, i,ll be ready and waiting for them, shower of b.....rds,

Bishop_Donal

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It's interesting reading the poll results. That between 25-30% of those who voted are exempt? That's the main problem in this country. Too many people living off the taxes of others.

They mightn't own a property just yet?

Ian64

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It's interesting reading the poll results. That between 25-30% of those who voted are exempt? That's the main problem in this country. Too many people living off the taxes of others.

The dolites in their council houses who pay for nothing will be exempt from the charge, which is madness.
Anyone who doesnt pay the charge should have the right to vote taken off them.

Bruthal

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

The very people who are most dependent on welfare and public service!!!!

If the music stops because we can't raise revenue, they are the ones who will take the biggest pain. Hence, they really should make damn sure that they are the most compliant now.

Yes, the ones who will find it the most difficult to pay, should pay you say. And they should be the most compliant? So the ones with the least difficulty paying, they are not as essential to be compliant? Very good.

It's called a drop in living standards, and it is starting now.

And the drop in living standars just started now did it? Again, you must be speaking from your own personal point of view, and see the importance of the ones in most difficulty paying up, to improve your standard again.

Josephine O Beirnes

dvpower wrote: »

From who? Campaigners against the charge?

Yes, a number of leaflets get dropped in from campaigners on a regular basis, it just caught me eye.

Bullseye1

That's true but I'm sure alot are renting. They will need to bring in a supplemental habitual tax for those renting to pay for the services they are using too.

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Everyone should have had enough cop on then to vote for parties who would not have introduced a property tax. Fine Gael said before the election they would bring it in and they even said it would be €100 to start with (a rare example perhaps of politicians keeping a promise). It is the law now and any private householder thinking of breaking it should at least read the details and inform themselves of the consequences.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

Thatcher's poll tax (Community Charge) was just renamed Council Tax and continues to this day. In England the current average is £1200.

Fine Gael said before the election they would bring it in

Link please, the last time I and others checked (Some who voted fg) ( Not me) the blueshirts came out against a property tax.

Fine Gael's plan does not include a property tax, saying, "a residential property tax would unfairly hit the young generation already burned by the housing bubble

http://www.businessandfinance.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=3360

Am Chile

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Think i read somewhere over the weekend that water disruptions will be in place for anyone who wont pay as the household tax will include water charges, dont know how true this is, could be just hearsay at the moment, anything is possible with our government though,

Complete rumour, they plan to bring in water charges separately from the household tax.

Bruthal

Am Chile wrote: »

Complete rumour, they plan to bring in water charges separately from the household tax.

Even for people who use their own well no doubt.

Am Chile

tayto lover wrote: »

30,000 is very few out of 1.6 million.

If 30,000 is the latest figures, then I think people should do the maths on this one - the government want to get 1.6million households to register for this between now and the end of March i.e over a 12 week period. That works out at nearly 135,000 people per week, working out at 19.285 to register and pay every day of a seven day week.

Last week they claimed 18,000 registered,meaning for week 1 they fell short by 117.000 not registering and paying, this week they claim over 30.000 registered, meaning since last week slightly over 12.000 allegedly registered and payed this week, even if they did. its still short by 123.000 for the second week.

Chips Lovell

You'd expect the rate of people paying to increase closer to the deadline, no?

Bishop_Donal

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes, the ones who will find it the most difficult to pay, should pay you say. And they should be the most compliant? So the ones with the least difficulty paying, they are not as essential to be compliant? Very good.


And the drop in living standars just started now did it? Again, you must be speaking from your own personal point of view, and see the importance of the ones in most difficulty paying up, to improve your standard again.

Everyone should pay their household charge - no exceptions. That's my point of view. It just seems the people who depend on the state most are the very people moaning most about it & that makes me puke.

When I say that living standards are only starting to fall, I mean it in a relative sense. Higher earners / best producers have taken by far the most pain at this stage (and the govt - even Labour - have twigged that if you tax them any more, that the revenue they produce will decline). Accordingly it is now time for the man on the street to put his hand in his pocket in a meaningful way. That will be the theme of the next four or five budgets.

So basically, if you think you've seen a fall in living standards, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Bruthal

Am Chile wrote: »

If 30,000 is the latest figures, then I think people should do the maths on this one - the government want to get 1.6million households to register for this between now and the end of March i.e over a 12 week period. That works out at nearly 135,000 people per week, working out at 19.285 to register and pay every day of a seven day week.

Last week they claimed 18,000 registered,meaning for week 1 they fell short by 117.000 not registering and paying, this week they claim over 30.000 registered, meaning since last week slightly over 12.000 allegedly registered and payed this week, even if they did. its still short by 123.000 for the second week.

Most will leave it until the last few days. Not much point in calculating the per day requirements.

Am Chile

robbie7730 wrote: »

Most will leave it until the last few days. Not much point in calculating the per day requirements.

A lot will wait to see what way the wind blows before paying or not paying.

Bishop_Donal

Am Chile wrote: »

If 30,000 is the latest figures, then I think people should do the maths on this one - the government want to get 1.6million households to register for this between now and the end of March i.e over a 12 week period. That works out at nearly 135,000 people per week, working out at 19.285 to register and pay every day of a seven day week.

Last week they claimed 18,000 registered,meaning for week 1 they fell short by 117.000 not registering and paying, this week they claim over 30.000 registered, meaning since last week slightly over 12.000 allegedly registered and payed this week, even if they did. its still short by 123.000 for the second week.

Find out the compliance level with the NPPR payment for this year. I'll bet it isn't a patch on the household charge.

I'd say DOF are thrilled with the number who have paid so far.

BengaLover

Dont shoot me down for saying this, but a compromise would go a long way - halfy halfy with landlord and tenant.
I am a tenant and wouldnt object to paying half with the landlord, but then we do have a good relationship with him and he keeps all the rules and looks after anything that needs doing quickly. I can see why some tenants wouldnt want to do that in a property that wasnt up to standard.

Bruthal

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Everyone should pay their household charge - no exceptions. That's my point of view. It just seems the people who depend on the state most are the very people moaning most about it & that makes me puke.

Well this is from the End of poster, who wants the tax to increase to €700 as quickly as possible.

Perhaps you should invest in a bucket, before you soil your carpet.

Slick50

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Now it's a case of sour grapes and resist the policies of the democratically elected country (with a huge majority).

It's Policitcal and Economic Treason, and if you had any sense of values, you would do the decent thing - get out of the country and stop being a leech on the people who are genuine in their efforts to improve it for all.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

This thread is about the Household charge.

FG clearly said they would do it & have been true to their word.
The people voted for that? end of.

But it's OK for you to question people's values and decency?

Where is that link for where FG campaigned that they would introduce the household charge?. I didn't vote for it.

They got elected by default, abu FF vote. (No party got a majority by the way)

dvpower

Josephine O Beirnes wrote: »

Yes, a number of leaflets get dropped in from campaigners on a regular basis, it just caught me eye.

So they've resorted to scare tactics this early on in the campaign. It doesn't bode well for them.

Have the anti-charge campaigns done any polling at all to gauge the resolve of the public to oppose the charge? Or is this just going to fizzle out after a few months, leaving the people who can least afford it paying penalties?

Irish Times wrote:

Socialist Party deputy Clare Daly said if the overwhelming majority of people refused to pay the charge, “we can make any threats of fines or penalties basically unworkable and we can make this tax uncollectible”.

If they are relying on the 'overwhelming majority' of people to refuse to pay, I tihnk they may as well pack it in now.

Ian64

Slick50 wrote: »

But it's OK for you to question people's values and decency?

Where is that link for where FG campaigned that they would introduce the household charge?. I didn't vote for it.

They got elected by default, abu FF vote. (No party got a majority by the way)

They didnt get elected by default, they got elected because enough people went out and voted for them!
Like most of the selfish "gimme something for nothing" brigade on here you only want democracy if and when it suits you.

galwayrush

The tax has to be paid, where for e.g. do you think the likes of Josephine Feehily's 2 K a week retirement pension is suppost to come from...